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  #1  
Old 08-31-2016, 05:57 AM
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Default A question of morality

Is this a moral system? Is it moral to cause people to suffer financially because they become ill?

Betty and Mary were born on the same day in the same hospital. They grew up in the same neighborhood where both of their fathers worked at the Mill and both mothers stayed at home. Both Girls were "A" students and both went off to the same college and both studied Chemistry. After graduation both got jobs at Dow Chemical making $75,000 a year.

5 years later a drunk driver ran into Mary's car. That same day Betty went on vacation for 2 weeks. 5 Years and many surgeries later, Mary has had to file bankruptcy, sell her home and is now $20k in debt again in medical bills. Mary can finally, albeit painfully get back to full employment.

Betty stops by to show her pictures of her family's new home and this years vacation to Italy.

Is Mary just unlucky or is she a victim of a failed medical system? Both you say? I agree.
So let's say that life isn't fair so why make it even MORE difficult just so that profit can be made off of that misfortune?
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  #2  
Old 05-25-2017, 11:13 AM
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Well first off, there are legal ramifications that can be assessed against the insurance company of said drunk driver - and the driver himself - to pay for Mary's medical bills and incurred expenses.

Secondly, it is not the prescription of government to stop 'immoral situations' from occurring. Any expectation that government could put a stop to the notion that life is unfair is actually quite unrealistic. The industry and even charity already exist to help a woman such as Mary - but the notion that the government paying for something erases a problem from the human experience is an oft repeated and historically countervailed notion.
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Old 05-25-2017, 12:21 PM
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Originally Posted by cfreetenor View Post
Well first off, there are legal ramifications that can be assessed against the insurance company of said drunk driver - and the driver himself - to pay for Mary's medical bills and incurred expenses.

Secondly, it is not the prescription of government to stop 'immoral situations' from occurring. Any expectation that government could put a stop to the notion that life is unfair is actually quite unrealistic. The industry and even charity already exist to help a woman such as Mary - but the notion that the government paying for something erases a problem from the human experience is an oft repeated and historically countervailed notion.
So....

You are in favor of scrapping laws against murder, robbery, late term abortions, fraud, incest, etc?

Now, isn't that special?
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Old 05-25-2017, 12:55 PM
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So....

You are in favor of scrapping laws against murder, robbery, late term abortions, fraud, incest, etc?

Now, isn't that special?
An early adopter, perhaps?
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Old 05-26-2017, 01:11 PM
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Originally Posted by cfreetenor View Post
Well first off, there are legal ramifications that can be assessed against the insurance company of said drunk driver - and the driver himself - to pay for Mary's medical bills and incurred expenses.

Secondly, it is not the prescription of government to stop 'immoral situations' from occurring. Any expectation that government could put a stop to the notion that life is unfair is actually quite unrealistic. The industry and even charity already exist to help a woman such as Mary - but the notion that the government paying for something erases a problem from the human experience is an oft repeated and historically countervailed notion.
I must agree that it's governments limited task to attempt to restrain wrongdoing.

That's why drunk drivers are punished​, and also the requirement for liability insurance in order to drive.

CORRECTING wrongs would be an impossible job.

Should medical care be a citizens benefit? Certainly worthy of a debate...

It must be paid for, because it's not free. But how to pay for it?

The Federals are good at collecting tax money, and with a Constitutional amendment authorizing it, could manage a national health care system.

Without an amendment, a federal health system violates the Tenth Amendment.

If the documents that govern us are undermined, what are we left with?

An outlaw government.

Which we already have.

Obviously.
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Old 05-26-2017, 03:12 PM
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I must agree that it's governments limited task to attempt to restrain wrongdoing.
OK, but that might depend on your definition of wrongdoing.

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That's why drunk drivers are punished​, and also the requirement for liability insurance in order to drive.
Yes, but...

Quote:
CORRECTING wrongs would be an impossible job.
As PeeWee Herman once said, that's a Very Big But. Modern civilizations generally the purpose of laws is not only to regulate but to educate. Laws are there mostly to protect people from each other, and protect people from themselves. As such, there is implicitly an effort in most, if not all, laws in a civilized society to correct wrongs, or better put, to prevent them from happening and to prevent them from recurring.

But I suppose if one subscribes to the methodology of the Islamic State, laws are there only to punish.

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Should medical care be a citizens benefit? Certainly worthy of a debate...
This really should not be a matter of debate. Would you care to debate whether police protection is a citizens benefit? Clean air? Unpolluted drinking water? Most would say it's moot, at least in a modern civilized nation.

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It must be paid for, because it's not free. But how to pay for it?
Who pays for it now?

We have the highest priced prescription drugs and the most costly health system in the world, per capita. This is what needs to be corrected. The ACA was a good start, but it didn't go far enough.

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The Federals are good at collecting tax money, and with a Constitutional amendment authorizing it, could manage a national health care system.
I'm stunned that you admit the Feds are good at anything, let alone being able to manage a national health care system.

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Without an amendment, a federal health system violates the Tenth Amendment.
Don't agree there. There are plenty of programs already in place that pass constitutional muster. Social Security, for example. Medicare, for example. The argument that government managed health care is a states rights issue is just a smoke cloud, an attempt to forestall the inevitable and the most compassionate use of our nation's medical resources.

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If the documents that govern us are undermined, what are we left with?
They were not undermined by SS, Medicare, the FDA, the EPA, the DOE, etc.

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An outlaw government.
The Confederacy was an outlaw government. A government that provides vital health care to all its citizens, without discrimination based on any number of individual factors, is a law abiding and necessary government.

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Which we already have.
No, we don't. Although Trump appears intent to place himself above the law, and the behavior of his sympathizers (Gianforte, for example) points to a Trump outlaw government in the making.
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  #7  
Old 05-31-2017, 11:52 AM
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Originally Posted by PBTime View Post
So....

You are in favor of scrapping laws against murder, robbery, late term abortions, fraud, incest, etc?

Now, isn't that special?
Quite a noteworthy difference. You can prosecute people who choose to violate the rights of others. You can't prosecute 'life.'

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