Photo ID to stop voter impersonation

dgun · #1 09-30-2012, 06:30 PM

Here is the scenario: you're a Democrat and you want Obama to win really bad. You know that Mr. Smith down the block is a hardcore Republican, and judging by that and the Obama Joker sign in his yard is a Mitt Romney man all the way. It's not nearly enough for you that your vote should only count once, so you leave early on the morning of November 6th to beat Mr. Smith to the polls. When the poll worker asks you for your name you answer, "Yes, I'm Mr. Smith". The poll worker finds your name on a printout, marks you off, and you're in business. You vote for Obama. Later that day you return, yet the poll workers do not recognize you. Being the clever devil you are, you've removed the "I Voted" sticker from your shirt. You vote again as yourself, another vote for Obama.

When poor Mr. Smith shows up to cast his vote for Romney, he is informed by the poll worker that he has already voted. If only a photo ID was required to vote this would never happen.

Luckily, one vote, statistically speaking, is not enough to change the results of an election. Therefore the real danger is a syndicate of individuals, perhaps thousands, who coordinate and plan a massive effort to impersonate individuals listed on the voting rolls, individuals who will likely either vote for the opposition or not show up to vote at all. These thousands of impersonators double up on their votes and steal the election.

How often has something like this actually happened? Well, I'm sure it is a considerable problem since several states have made a massive effort to deal with voter fraud leading up to the 2012 election. And I'm sure that we just don't hear much about specific instances of voter impersonation since there isn't a media outlet that would give such a story much airtime.

If you're polling place requires a photo ID, I suppose the only thing you have to worry about is whether or not your ID needs renewing. That, and illegal immigrants with multiple fake ID's of registered voters. Regardless, to be on the safe side, I recommend voting early, but not often, in this year's election.

By the way, does anyone know if you have to mail in a photo ID with an absentee ballot?

**bishop** · #2 09-30-2012, 07:21 PM

this is one of those issues where common sense is dead on arrival, if not before arrival... you're more likely to be hit by lightening than for there to be an instance of voter fraud in any election... hell, the odds of seeing a UFO are even higher..

this "issue" stemmed from a deeper need to satisfy anti-hispanic prejudice as far as i'm concerned.

**80zephyr** · #3 09-30-2012, 07:32 PM

http://www.heritage.org/research/rep...citizen-voting

From the link:

In 2005, the U.S. Government Accountability Office found that up to 3 percent of the 30,000 individuals called for jury duty from voter registration rolls over a two-year period in just one U.S. district court were not U.S. citizens.[1] While that may not seem like many, just 3 percent of registered voters would have been more than enough to provide the winning presidential vote margin in Florida in 2000. Indeed, the Census Bureau estimates that there are over a million illegal aliens in Florida,[2] and the U.S. Department of Justice (DOJ) has prosecuted more non-citizen voting cases in Florida than in any other state.[3]

Hmm. 3% is not significant? Really? In our country, every employer has to verify the citizenship of a job applicant before hiring them. If an illegal uses fake paperwork to obtain a job, is it really a stretch to believe that they wouldn't try to vote?

Mark

dgun · #4 10-01-2012, 05:29 AM

Mark, I don't trust anything that comes from the Heritage foundation; however, how does a photo ID solve the problem you post about? If a non-citizen is on the voting roll and shows up with a photo ID, will he not be able to vote?

Norm dePlume · #5 10-01-2012, 06:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dgun

Mark, I don't trust anything that comes from the Heritage foundation

for good reason.

Norm dePlume · #6 10-01-2012, 06:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 80zephyr

http://www.heritage.org/research/rep...citizen-voting

From the link:

In 2005, the U.S. Government Accountability Office found that up to 3 percent of the 30,000 individuals called for jury duty from voter registration rolls over a two-year period in just one U.S. district court were not U.S. citizens.[1] While that may not seem like many, just 3 percent of registered voters would have been more than enough to provide the winning presidential vote margin in Florida in 2000. Indeed, the Census Bureau estimates that there are over a million illegal aliens in Florida,[2] and the U.S. Department of Justice (DOJ) has prosecuted more non-citizen voting cases in Florida than in any other state.[3]

Hmm. 3% is not significant? Really? In our country, every employer has to verify the citizenship of a job applicant before hiring them. If an illegal uses fake paperwork to obtain a job, is it really a stretch to believe that they wouldn't try to vote?

Mark

This shit again?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Norm dePlume

Here's the actual GAO report that your article cited. And here's the relevant section:

Quote:

AOUSC officials and federal jury administrators we spoke with generally
did not have exact data on the number of people called for jury service
that responded that they were non-citizens. Consequently, no information
was available from federal jury administrators in six U.S. district courts,
but federal jury administrators in eight U.S. district courts provided either
exact numbers or estimates. Of the eight district courts, four federal jury
administrators said no one had been disqualified from jury service because
they were not U.S. citizens. In the other four district courts:

• a federal jury administrator in one U.S. district court estimated that 1 to
3 percent of the people out of a jury pool of 30,000 over 2 years (about
300 to 900 people) said they were not U.S. citizens;

• a federal jury administrator in a second U.S. district court estimated
that less than 1 percent of the people out of a jury pool of 35,000 names
each month (less than 350 people) said they were not U.S. citizens;

• a federal jury administrator in a third U.S. district court estimated that
about 150 people out of a jury pool of 95,000 names over 2 years said
they were not U.S. citizens; and

• a federal jury administrator in a fourth U.S. district court estimated that
annually about 5 people typically claimed non-citizenship in a jury pool
of about 50,000 individuals.

Okay, so most had no information, but four districts deigned to estimate a number. And the estimates are:

1-3%

less than 1%

150/95000 = 0.15%

and 5/50000 = 0.01%

So, let's see, you weight the result by population... hmmm.... carry the three... Oh, screw it, just take the highest number. It's up to 3%!

**bishop** · #7 10-01-2012, 08:31 AM

not to mention that the faulty analysis doesn't mention the existence of actual voting fraud.

Norm dePlume · #8 10-01-2012, 08:55 AM

Republicans take Blackstone's formulation that it's "better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer", and turn it on its head for voting. As far as they're concerned, it's better that 10 legitimate voters be disenfranchised than one illegitimate voter cast a ballot.

**william the wierd** · #9 10-01-2012, 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bishop

not to mention that the faulty analysis doesn't mention the existence of actual voting fraud.

The far more interesting question is being ignored. Why isn't the GOP using this response to accuse the Ds of being dependent on voter fraud for its very existence? By attacking the legitmacy of all D ballots in true scortched Earth fashion and undermining the Democratic party's legitimacy they could make big gains. So, why isn't this happening?

Norm dePlume · #10 10-01-2012, 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by william the wierd

The far more interesting question is being ignored. Why isn't the GOP using this response to accuse the Ds of being dependent on voter fraud for its very existence? By attacking the legitmacy of all D ballots in true scortched Earth fashion and undermining the Democratic party's legitimacy they could make big gains. So, why isn't this happening?

They've got folks like you to lay out such unsubstantiated accusations for them, so they don't need to dirty their hand with it.