The right to pray

[Berggeist]

Originally Posted by btthegreat

I thoroughly understand your position. We will get nowhere.

Good, our positions are incommensurable.

[btthegreat]

Originally Posted by Berggeist

Good, our positions are incommensurable.

To be clear, your ideas are gibberish from a modern standpoint. But you are a fine clear writer. I will keep reading, just as I did William Buckley. I can appreciate the art of a well written post, if not the ideology. It will be fun

[Berggeist]

Originally Posted by btthegreat

To be clear, your ideas are gibberish from a modern standpoint. But you are a fine clear writer. I will keep reading, just as I did William Buckley. I can appreciate the art of a well written post, if not the ideology. It will be fun

Those are not my ideas; they are the facts of history.

[btthegreat]

Originally Posted by Berggeist

Those are not my ideas; they are the facts of history.

That may be so, but you used the wrong tense to keep them as history.

[Norm dePlume]

Originally Posted by btthegreat

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or
prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or
of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition
the Government for a redress of grievances.

Is there a right to pray guaranteed under the constitution? I don't mean a right to props with which to pray, access to symbols with which to pray, or a right to kneel or fold your hands. I mean a right to use your mind /imagination to talk to your God on your own timetable. Is there a right to convert, repent, seek redress, argue, or learn through individual silent prayer beyond any act of govt force that might so inhibit, whether it do so today, tomorrow or your prayers and spiritual growth in ten years? Its almost impossible to fathom govt interference in so private and intimate an act. Only a lethal injection, or electric pulse generated to stop your brain function permanently, could represent a planned deliberative act denying you a right to lifetime spiritual growth. Capital punishment is an unconstitutional interference in the convicted American's right to pray, not just through Thursday November 17th at midnight, but beyond. If God isn't finished with me yet, nor I him, is my govt putting an artificial deadline between us because of earthly acts the very nature of which most demand a call to prayer and spiritual change?

I wonder if this has been tried?

Well, that's a new one on me. I haven't seen that line of argument before. I would counter that every religion I know of that features communication with God allows for the communication to continue after death. In fact, I think most posit that the death of the earthly body puts the soul in nearer contact with God ("nearer my God to thee"), so a session in an electric chair wouldn't exactly hang up the God phone.

[PatrickHenry]

Everybody's gotta die sometime

And the First Amendment assures the convicted that they have the right to approach their god or gods right up until the moment of their death

I don't take the death penalty lightly

But I do regard some people as too dangerous to be allowed to continue to live

Just as we would not allow a hair-trigger explosive device to lay around where it could harm us

Society has the right to deny the convicted any further continuance of their lives

Because of the potential for harm

And to quote you back to yourself an this specific attempt to apply the First Amendment:

"Your ideas are gibberish from a modern standpoint."

[sksmith]

Originally Posted by btthegreat

You forgot half. "...or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..."
So if Congress ( read any federal or state govt body because court precedent has extended the coverage of the amendments) passes statutes that prohibit free exercise it exceeds it authority. That is my argument and that is absolutely consistent with current constitutional law.

As for the first point. My God would not approve argument is theological and not designed for a court room. That target is conservative christian supporters of the death penalty. My post put an apple next to an orange.

You are free to exercise your religion in the case of capital punishment. The resulting death of such a sentence does not prevent you from such exercise, as prayer is not the only aspect of religion. Faith is, and your faith is not prohibited, per se, by capital punishment.

Just for clarification, this is in no means a defense of capital punishment; I haven't come to a personal conclusion on the subject as of yet.

[Berggeist]

Originally Posted by btthegreat

That may be so, but you used the wrong tense to keep them as history.

You make the mistake of Modernity of thinking that history is past or has passed.

[btthegreat]

In the length of time this constitutional challenge idea has sat here, the kindest word that has been said was that it was original. I know a bomb when I have laid one. I'll stand by the rest, and bury my legal brief under the corroded sewage pump.

[sksmith]

Participation in debate with you and your thread should be considered complimentary toward your idea...if it's congratulations you're looking for, fist-bump your computer screen and simply imagine that I have done so in correspondence; you can even "blow it up" if you want