ethnicity and war

[Athena]

Ethnicity is-ethnic classification or affiliation. Ethnics- is the study of standards of conduct and moral judgement. This is what every religion is about. Every religion, and if people would compare the ethnics of religions, they find agreement.

Where the conflicts become wars is, this idea that God has favorites. This ethnicity- identification with a specific group and belief that "we" are special to God or the Creator, is common among all humans. The belief of the Jews is just as delusional as that of the Aztecs, the Romans, the Chinese, the Greek world map, or the geocentric model. There is even a native American tribe whose name means "real people", and another "the real people" like they were competing with each other as is true of all religious people who claim to know the true God and therefore, be closer to this God than who do not this God's truth.

This is non sense. There are no chosen people. Many have stories of a God telling them they are special to God and a land given to them is special sacred/holy land, and it is their God given duty to care for this land. This is all well and fine, until it means taking land by force from the people living on it, as the Israels have done repeatedly, and the wars of Christians with them all praying to a war God, who is suppose to give them victory in war, even when it is Christians fighting Christians, as was the case in two world wars, and many holy wars before this.

We need to accept ethnicity is human nature and delusion. When we fight for power and control, we have to be dead honest with ourselves, and that is exactly why we have wars today, people are fighting for power and control, and none are more deserving of it than the other.

[Rider]

Good post Athena, but of course a few comments:

...if people would compare the ethnics of religions, they find agreement.
I'm no scholar on the Koran, but I've read so many excerpts commanding bloody violent conquest, that when compared to Christian scripture there's no equivalence. Keep in mind that I'm not speaking of the old testament here.


...the wars of Christians with them all praying to a war God, who is suppose to give them victory in war, even when it is Christians fighting Christians, as was the case in two world wars, and many holy wars before this.
While Christians do pray as you point out, for victory in war, etc. it is not backed up by any Christian scripture that I've ever read. Not an argument, just a comment.

We need to accept ethnicity is human nature and delusion. When we fight for power and control, we have to be dead honest with ourselves, and that is exactly why we have wars today, people are fighting for power and control, and none are more deserving of it than the other.
Sorry, but you blew this one. While it is true that most conflicts are all about power and control the idea that none are more deserving than others is complete lunacy (forgive me). Do you mean to tell me that imperial Japan, who raped and pillaged most of a continent was just as deserving of victory as the United States? I'd love to hear that argument. Ditto for the Nazis. Same for the Islamofacists.

[Nathan Brazil]

ethnic - of or relating to races or large groups of people clased according to common traits and customs..

or - a member of a minority ethnic group who retains it's customs, language, or social views.

I think that means the chief on my boat who loved bacon wasn't really jewish after all...

Never mind that...economics is more likely to spark wars then considerations of ethnicity, though naturally ethnic divisions are used by the leaders seeking to profit from the war to enflame the cannon fodder who will be dying in the war.

Now, as far as the "chosen people" notion goes, there can't be no chosen people if there ain't no god to do the choosin, right? But it's sure a handy tool to have when trying to maintain cultural exclusivity and stop the process of inbreeding and outbreeding that normally occurs when cultures and peoples mix.

[Athena]

Good post Athena, but of course a few comments:

...if people would compare the ethnics of religions, they find agreement.
I'm no scholar on the Koran, but I've read so many excerpts commanding bloody violent conquest, that when compared to Christian scripture there's no equivalence. Keep in mind that I'm not speaking of the old testament here.


...the wars of Christians with them all praying to a war God, who is suppose to give them victory in war, even when it is Christians fighting Christians, as was the case in two world wars, and many holy wars before this.
While Christians do pray as you point out, for victory in war, etc. it is not backed up by any Christian scripture that I've ever read. Not an argument, just a comment.

We need to accept ethnicity is human nature and delusion. When we fight for power and control, we have to be dead honest with ourselves, and that is exactly why we have wars today, people are fighting for power and control, and none are more deserving of it than the other.
Sorry, but you blew this one. While it is true that most conflicts are all about power and control the idea that none are more deserving than others is complete lunacy (forgive me). Do you mean to tell me that imperial Japan, who raped and pillaged most of a continent was just as deserving of victory as the United States? I'd love to hear that argument. Ditto for the Nazis. Same for the Islamofacists.





:D:D:D I love to start the day off with a good laugh. "Keep in mind that I'm not speaking of the old testament here". We need another thread to question the foundations of Christianity, considering it does not worship a war God. However, the God of David is clearly a war God.
The problem with holy books is they freeze human consciousness at that time in history, and at no time has it been good enough to know God's truth. Our human brains can not comprehend God consciousness, but around the world people were driven to explain why things are as they are, and they developed concepts of spirits or gods and demons, and they get all hung up on the dogma of what they learned. Anyway the bible just like the Koran justifies stoning people and acts of war. This was the consciousness of the time.

I think Jesus was more influenced by Buddhist conscious. Christianity for sure is very influenced by Hellenism. Islam is a comination of Judaism, Christainity and the Arab culture. I think most of us posters are white anglo saxon protestants, and we know Jesus looks like us, and feels like a direct line to us. However, this was so for the Arabs who were very excited to have their own prophet who spoke the word of God to them. Get it? Ethnicity has everything to do with these divisions of religion, but Hellenism was more universal, so Christianity went from a tribal war God, as was common in the day, to a universal God, back to Arab back country in a new combination of a universal, more war like God.

One reason for keeping the old and new testament together is the prediction of the messiah. Mohammed better fits the description of the coming messiah than Jesus, because of his warlike quality. The messiah was suppose to put an end to the evil, and that is why we have to have a second coming, because Jesus didn't do it the first time. Mohammed and the religion attempt to repress evil as did the Puritans, but Islam retained more of the historic violence. Puritans were uptight, but less cruel, in punishing wrond doers.

[Athena]

While Christians do pray as you point out, for victory in war, etc. it is not backed up by any Christian scripture that I've ever read. Not an argument, just a comment.

Why are you doing this? You know those verses are in the Old Testament and you know some churches use the old testament even more than the new one. Look for the scriptures. They are in the Christian bible.

[Athena]

Sorry, but you blew this one. While it is true that most conflicts are all about power and control the idea that none are more deserving than others is complete lunacy (forgive me). Do you mean to tell me that imperial Japan, who raped and pillaged most of a continent was just as deserving of victory as the United States? I'd love to hear that argument. Ditto for the Nazis. Same for the Islamofacists.

:) That is a very ethnic point of view.

Have you heard about the history of the US and the displacement of native Americans? Human beings are the same around the world. Only their consciousness varies, because of environmental reasons. Communication is the only acceptable way to resolve these differences.
I am not saying no one should practice self defense, but maybe bombing Japan's airfeilds and ship yards, would have been enough defense. Sending men out as extensions of weapons to slaughter each other is so out dated. Maybe our war decisions are not always the best, and may be we can prevent wars.

Everywhere people are just doing the best they know how to do. So if you want them to do different, teach them how to achieve their goals differently. That is the concept of democracy and freedom of speech.
Expand your mind by increasing your knowledge, and drop the ethnicity.

[Athena]

Now, as far as the "chosen people" notion goes, there can't be no chosen people if there ain't no god to do the choosin, right? But it's sure a handy tool to have when trying to maintain cultural exclusivity and stop the process of inbreeding and outbreeding that normally occurs when cultures and peoples mix.

Yes, Nathan, but the religions beginning with the tribal God of Abraham are not our only means of understanding God. A concept of God is important to democracy, but it doesn't have to be the biblical God who is all tied in enthnicity and myths and superstition.

We can hold a Hellenist understanding of God, which is compatable with the Hindu concept of consciousness. This would bring the world to peace.

[Athena]

Who is not a child of God?

[Nathan Brazil]

A concept of God is important to democracy,

No, it's not.Â*Â*What's required for any successful government dedicated to preserving the liberty of it's citizens is the citizens awareness of how the government works and how much power he's willing to cede to that government to make it work.

A man needs to know the world to function, he doesn't have to fill his head up wth mystical nonsense. It's the mystical nonsense that tends to fuel the wars. Without that, most societies can't get their soldiers motivated to go feed the enemy's cannons.

[Athena]

A concept of God is important to democracy,

No, it's not.Â*Â*What's required for any successful government dedicated to preserving the liberty of it's citizens is the citizens awareness of how the government works and how much power he's willing to cede to that government to make it work.

A man needs to know the world to function, he doesn't have to fill his head up wth mystical nonsense.Â*Â*It's the mystical nonsense that tends to fuel the wars.Â*Â*Without that, most societies can't get their soldiersÂ*Â*motivated to go feed the enemy's cannons.Â*Â*


Yes, a concept of God is important to democracy. When man thinks he is the highest authority, he becomes foolish, and assumes too much depends on him. When we think we know it all, we are fools. God is the X factor, the unknown. You might appreciate this more when you get older.

The concept of God can be more open than the God of Abraham, and reject the idea that a God has favorites. Having a concept of God free from superstition is not a problem, but ethnicity is a serious problem. Have you paid any attention to Spinoza's understanding of God, or considered Buddhist or Hindu concepts of God as consciousness? Do you have any interest in quantum theory of string theory?

[Nathan Brazil]

A concept of God is important to democracy,

No, it's not.Â*Â*What's required for any successful government dedicated to preserving the liberty of it's citizens is the citizens awareness of how the government works and how much power he's willing to cede to that government to make it work.

A man needs to know the world to function, he doesn't have to fill his head up wth mystical nonsense.Â*Â*It's the mystical nonsense that tends to fuel the wars.Â*Â*Without that, most societies can't get their soldiersÂ*Â*motivated to go feed the enemy's cannons.Â*Â*


Yes, a concept of God is important to democracy.Â*Â*When man thinks he is the highest authority, he becomes foolish, and assumes too much depends on him.Â*Â*When we think we know it all, we are fools.Â*Â*God is the X factor, the unknown.Â*Â*You might appreciate this more when you get older.Â*Â*

The concept of God can be more open than the God of Abraham, and reject the idea that a God has favorites.Â*Â*Having a concept of God free from superstition is not a problem, but ethnicity is a serious problem.Â*Â*Have you paid any attention to Spinoza's understanding of God, or considered Buddhist or Hindu concepts of God as consciousness?Â*Â* Do you have any interest in quantum theory of string theory?Â*Â*


God is fantasy. It's not real. Knowledge of the unreal isn't essential to securing men's liberties.

Your turn.

If you wish to refute what I just said, please demonstrate the reality of any supernatural deity before continuing.