Muslims bristle at Bush term "Islamic fascists"

[Cobra]

Too bad, it is an accurate description IMO. Politically correct bullshit, how about the Muslims start restraining themselves/stop starting religious wars and then we will follow suit.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060810/us_nm/security_usa_muslims_dc

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - U.S. Muslim groups criticized President Bush on Thursday for calling a foiled plot to blow up airplanes part of a "war with Islamic fascists," saying the term could inflame anti-Muslim tensions.

U.S. officials have said the plot, thwarted by Britain, to blow up several aircraft over the Atlantic bore many of the hallmarks of al Qaeda.

"We believe this is an ill-advised term and we believe that it is counterproductive to associate Islam or Muslims with fascism," said Nihad Awad, executive director of the Council on American-Islamic Relations advocacy group.

"We ought to take advantage of these incidents to make sure that we do not start a religious war against Islam and Muslims," he told a news conference in Washington.

"We urge him (Bush) and we urge other public officials to restrain themselves."

Awad said U.S. officials should take the lead from their British counterparts who steered clear of using what he considered inflammatory terms when they announced the arrest of more than 20 suspects in the reported plot.

Hours after the news broke, Bush said it was "a stark reminder that this nation is at war with Islamic fascists who will use any means to destroy those of us who love freedom, to hurt our nation."

Bush and other administration officials have used variations of the term "Islamo-fascism" on several occasions in the past to describe militant groups including al Qaeda, its allies in Iraq and Hizbollah in Lebanon.

Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff told MSNBC television the phrase reflected what he called Osama bin Laden's own vision of leading a totalitarian empire under the guise of religion.

"It might may not be classic fascism as you had with Mussolini or Hitler. But it is a totalitarian, intolerant imperialism that has a vision that is totally at odds with Western society and our rules of law," Chertoff said.

MUSLIM CONCERNS

Many American Muslims, who say they have felt singled out for discrimination since the September 11 attacks, reject the term and say it unfairly links their faith to notions of dictatorship, oppression and racism.

"The problem with the phrase is it attaches the religion of Islam to tyranny and fascism, rather than isolating the threat to a specific group of individuals," said Edina Lekovic, spokeswoman for the Muslim Public Affairs Council in Los Angeles.

She said the terms cast suspicions on all Muslims, even the vast majority who want to live in safety like other Americans.

Bush upset many Muslims after the September 11 attacks by referring to the global war against terrorism early on as a "crusade," a term which for many Muslims connotes a Christian battle against Islam. The White House quickly stopped using the word, expressing regrets if it had caused offense.

Mohamed Elibiary, a Texas-based Muslim activist, said he was upset by the president's latest comments.

"We've got Osama bin Laden hijacking the religion in order to define it one way. ... We feel the president and anyone who's using these kinds of terminologies is hijacking it too from a different side," he said.

"The president's use of the language is going to ratchet up the hate meter, but I think it would have caused much more damage if he had done this after 9/11," Elibiary said, adding that tensions were not running as high as they had been in the immediate aftermath of the 2001 attacks.

[PittsburghAfterDark]

It's about damn f'in time.

[CheesyMuslim]

Sorry bout that,

1. But call Islam what it is.
2. Why dance around it.
3. Facts lay bare if you only take a real honest look.
4. See where and what is being taught from Mecca, you will understand then what Islam is.
5. It is a form of Nazi-hood.

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

[Alonzo]

Too bad, it is an accurate description IMO. Politically correct bullsh1t, how about the Muslims start restraining themselves/stop starting religious wars and then we will follow suit.

Isn't that like telling whites to stop joining the KKK? I mean there's not much the Muslim couple down the street can do about it.

I personally don't like the term. It's not offensive per se, but it's one of those terms that seems to exist because of prejudices against muslims, even if the term itself is not derogatory to Muslims as a whole. We wouldn't use the term "Christofascists" or "Christian fascists" if it were Christians doing this.

I remember a few months ago Bush used the term "Islamofascist" and I was suprised by that.

[lily]

Awad said U.S. officials should take the lead from their British counterparts who steered clear of using what he considered inflammatory terms when they announced the arrest of more than 20 suspects in the reported plot.

Could it be because they were British citizens?

Anyway.......I gave up on Bush not embarrasing this country every time he opened his mouth a long time ago.

[BoogyMan]

Isn't that like telling whites to stop joining the KKK? I mean there's not much the Muslim couple down the street can do about it.

I personally don't like the term. It's not offensive per se, but it's one of those terms that seems to exist because of prejudices against muslims, even if the term itself is not derogatory to Muslims as a whole. We wouldn't use the term "Christofascists" or "Christian fascists" if it were Christians doing this.

I remember a few months ago Bush used the term "Islamofascist" and I was suprised by that.

This shouldn't surprise me but it does. Just how does pointing out that there are islamist fascists out there causing havoc and murdering innocents with abandon equate to prejudice? Its fact Alonzo. Islamofascist fits because those who do these horrible acts are screaming about doing it because of their Islamic beliefs and in the name of Allah.

[Alonzo]

Do you think we would label the likes of Joseph Kony, the leader of the lords resistance army (which wanted to establish a state based on the 10 commandments) in Uganda, as a Christofascist?

We would never use such a term for Christians.

[BoogyMan]

Do you think we would label the likes of Joseph Kony, the leader of the lords resistance army (which wanted to establish a state based on the 10 commandments) in Uganda, as a Christofascist?

We would never use such a term for Christians.

You are setting up a false comparison here. The equivalent in terms of the extreme choice on names you have made is to call islamofascists mohammadofascists. We are not making an apples to apples comparison here.

[Alonzo]

No, the two terms are one in Christianity. Christ and Christianity start the same, unlike Islam and muhammed.

[BoogyMan]

No, the two terms are one in Christianity. Christ and Christianity start the same, unlike Islam and muhammed.


Either you are completely missing the point or are intentionally trying to anger those professing Christianity.

Your logic here doesn't stand the smell test.

[Alonzo]

So for Christians who do violence in the name of their God, and want to impose their beliefs on others, why is it wrong to call them Christofascists?

[BoogyMan]

So for Christians who do violence in the name of their God, and want to impose their beliefs on others, why is it wrong to call them Christofascists?

I dont see anyone out there blowing up innocents in the name of christ. How many people have you seen who have been beheaded by christians and Gods name called out as the reason?

You don't.

[PittsburghAfterDark]

No, he's just trying to be the horse faced jackass he normally is.

99.9% of the people in the world couldn't tell you who Joseph Kony is. Including myself, without a google search.

'zo just has to go on pretending that the Religion of Peace didn't really want to bomb another 10 airliners. Doesn't want to destroy Israel and wouldn't want to cut his throat, murder his family and rape his mother or sister.

You see, cowardice is the easy way out in life and 'zo wants his life to be easy, so very, very easy.

[Alonzo]

So for Christians who do violence in the name of their God, and want to impose their beliefs on others, why is it wrong to call them Christofascists?

I dont see anyone out there blowing up innocents in the name of christ.Â*Â*How many people have you seen who have been beheaded by christians and Gods name called out as the reason?

You don't.



Seen? None. But Christians who torture, mutilate, behead etc for religion? You can find it in Africa just as you find Muslims who do the same.

99.9% of the people in the world couldn't tell you who Joseph Kony is.

So, they only count if they're famous across the globe?

How many people has Al Qaeda killed? Kony's group has abducted over 25,000 children (to use as soldiers, sex slaves etc.) and slaughtered over 10,000 civilians, and driving as much as 2 million people into refugee camps link (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,3-2246914,00.html). They have used cannibalism and many other horrific methods to kill their victims. And the survivors (such as this one link (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/5129350.stm)), speak of horrific treatment.

The term Christofascist would fit a person like this, but is it one you would use?

[BoogyMan]

Seen? None. But Christians who torture, mutilate, behead etc for religion? You can find it in Africa just as you find Muslims who do the same.

Ahhh, I see, the nebulous Africans who murder and mame in the name of Christ. I would submit to you that those whom you say are doing this in Africa are NOT christian, if they even exist.

[Nathan Brazil]

I object to Bushie's use of the term "Islamic fascist".

It's redundand and it gratuitously insults fascists.

[Nathan Brazil]

Seen? None. But Christians who torture, mutilate, behead etc for religion? You can find it in Africa just as you find Muslims who do the same.

Ahhh, I see, the nebulous Africans who murder and mame in the name of Christ.Â*Â*I would submit to you that those whom you say are doing this in Africa are NOT christian, if they even exist.




That's the same bullshit argument the islamofascists use.Â*Â*

"They're not really muslim because they make other towelheads look bad."

Oh wait. I don't think muslims call each other towelheads. I think they use "camel jockey".

[Old Corps Gunny]

I suppose a plot wouldn't have anything to do with inflaming "anti-Muslim tension", or terrorist attacks around the world by Muslim groups shouldn't be considered declaring a religious war. What hypocrisy. By the way, Alonzo, I would have no problem using the term "Christian fascists" to describe those militia groups such as the "Sword and Shield" that also employ terrorist acts to further their particular agenda. If it looks like crap, smells like crap, and has flies buzzing all around it, then it must be crap.

[Alonzo]

Seen? None. But Christians who torture, mutilate, behead etc for religion? You can find it in Africa just as you find Muslims who do the same.

Ahhh, I see, the nebulous Africans who murder and mame in the name of Christ.Â*Â*I would submit to you that those whom you say are doing this in Africa are NOT christian, if they even exist.




You doubt that Kony's "Lords Resistance Army" exists? They are probably the most ruthless militant group in Africa and, for a long time the most well known (the Janjaweed are probably better known now).

Also, why do you dismiss Christians terrorists as non Christians yet you do no such thing with Muslim terrorists? Why do you exclude one but not the other? The truth is, the vast majority of Muslims don't find terrorist acts like 9/11 to be consistent with Islam, yet you don't think twice about calling Osama a Muslim simply because he says so. But when a guy like Kony calls himself a Christian you dismiss him as unchristian.

By the way, Alonzo, I would have no problem using the term "Christian fascists"

That's all I'm looking for. But I doubt most Christians would be willing to use that term or Christofascist.

[BoogyMan]

You doubt that Kony's "Lords Resistance Army" exists? They are probably the most ruthless militant group in Africa and, for a long time the most well known (the Janjaweed are probably better known now).

Also, why do you dismiss Christians terrorists as non Christians yet you do no such thing with Muslim terrorists? Why do you exclude one but not the other? The truth is, the vast majority of Muslims don't find terrorist acts like 9/11 to be consistent with Islam, yet you don't think twice about calling Osama a Muslim simply because he says so. But when a guy like Kony calls himself a Christian you dismiss him as unchristian.

Alonzo, Kony is no Christian. The joker calls himself a spirit medium, this kind of thing is taught against by the NT. Your latest attempt to equate christianity with islmofascist ideology is another in a long line of logical failures in thie vein of argumentation.

Christians DO NOT teach that you are to murder those who disagree with their teaching, radical Islam DOES teach such savagery.

If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, most would call it a duck, Alonzo would equate it with a water borne oppressor of smaller lifeforms.

[Alonzo]

So he has to follow a certain form of christianity to be a christian according to you, yet a muslim is a muslim as long as they claim they are, no matter how they go about it, whether mainstram muslims think such acts are acceptable according to Islamic teaching, or what they believe. Good to know.

[BoogyMan]

So he has to follow a certain form of christianity to be a christian according to you, yet a muslim is a muslim as long as they claim they are, no matter how they go about it, whether mainstram muslims think such acts are acceptable according to Islamic teaching, or what they believe. Good to know.

A certain form of Christianity? Gads, Zo, you claim to have a great deal of knowledge concerning religion. SHOW SOME! Where in the NT do you see the command to "behead thy neighbor?" It just isn't there.

[lily]

BoogyMan

Christians DO NOT teach that you are to murder those who disagree with their teaching, radical Islam DOES teach such savagery.

If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, most would call it a duck, Alonzo would equate it with a water borne oppressor of smaller lifeforms.

But you see.........you are more than willing to include all Muslims in the radical Islam group, but are unwilling to include all Christians into the radical Christian group?

You fail to see that not all Muslim fit into your sterotype, yet are more than willing to condem them all.

[BoogyMan]

But you see.........you are more than willing to include all Muslims in the radical Islam group, but are unwilling to include all Christians into the radical Christian group?

You fail to see that not all Muslim fit into your sterotype, yet are more than willing to condem them all.

Now Lily, you know that is not true. You have NEVER heard me condemn all muslims, its nothing more than a lie. I always, ALWAYS, preface the grouping as islamofascist or radical muslims. You need to go back and do some reading, because what you just posted is not true.

[Alonzo]

A certain form of Christianity?Â*Â*Gads, Zo, you claim to have a great deal of knowledge concerning religion.Â*Â*SHOW SOME!Â*Â*Where in the NT do you see the command to "behead thy neighbor?"Â*Â*It just isn't there.


The new testament calls for death to non believers many times, it's just normally God who will be doing the killing.

But the crusaders were not Christian? Hell, the ones who sacked Maarra have something in common with the LRA, they both have been known to eat their victims. What about the inquisition, the torture, burnings etc. those were not committed by christians? Or what about the Lebanese Christian militia's, the ones who slaughtered and raped civilians in Sabra and Shatila? Or the Christians in Nigeria, who engage in tit for tat violence with muslims, both killing the other over religion on an essentially equal scale. Then there's those wonderful Christians who decide they need to bomb clinics. None of these are Christian?

You have a requirement for christians to accurately follow scripture to be christian, yet you have no such requirement for muslims to do the same. Every reputable Islamic scholar I've read about or encountered has denounced the killing of civilians as unislamic, and Bin Laden, even before his terrorist activities, had disturbed many of his associates with his overly simplistic view of Islam.

It is much more difficult to accuse members of your own faith of horrific acts than it is to accuse those of other faiths. Saying these people aren't true Christians is the same as when Muslims say Bin Laden is not a true Muslim, due to his beliefs and actions.

[PittsburghAfterDark]

I love when the lunatic, mentally ill left has to go back 500-700 years to "prove" Christianity is evil.

Also, you're not going to find calls for death of non-believers in the New Testament. The vengeful God was strictly OT, unless you want to count Revelations. Even then it was not God doing the work, it was Satan and his minions.

Meanwhile we need only look at, oh... what day? Oh yeah, yesterday, to find Muslims willing to murder 3,000+ in the name of religion.

[Rider]

Zo, You said-But the crusaders were not Christian? Hell, the ones who sacked Maarra have something in common with the LRA, they both have been known to eat their victims. What about the inquisition, the torture, burnings etc. those were not committed by christians? Or what about the Lebanese Christian militia's, the ones who slaughtered and raped civilians in Sabra and Shatila? Or the Christians in Nigeria, who engage in tit for tat violence with muslims, both killing the other over religion on an essentially equal scale. Then there's those wonderful Christians who decide they need to bomb clinics. None of these are Christian?
All of these acts have one thing in common- the perpetrators claim to be acting in the name of Christianity, but the New Testament scriptures don't condone any of them.

[BoogyMan]

The new testament calls for death to non believers many times, it's just normally God who will be doing the killing.

Lets have book, chapter, and verse from the NT for this ridiculous claim!

[Athena]

Facism is private owership of property and government control of industry. That is the US not the Muslims. The uses of emotion provoking works, and citizens eating this up like candy, discust me.

[Athena]

So he has to follow a certain form of christianity to be a christian according to you, yet a muslim is a muslim as long as they claim they are, no matter how they go about it, whether mainstram muslims think such acts are acceptable according to Islamic teaching, or what they believe. Good to know.

A certain form of Christianity?Â*Â*Gads, Zo, you claim to have a great deal of knowledge concerning religion.Â*Â*SHOW SOME!Â*Â*Where in the NT do you see the command to "behead thy neighbor?"Â*Â*It just isn't there.




The commandment may not be in the New Testament but such orders from God fill the old testament. Ever since this religion claiming there is a God who favors one race of people became an accepted religion, different from past mythology, there has been a terrible human problem.

[Athena]

BoogyMan

Christians DO NOT teach that you are to murder those who disagree with their teaching, radical Islam DOES teach such savagery.

If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, most would call it a duck, Alonzo would equate it with a water borne oppressor of smaller lifeforms.

But you see.........you are more than willing to include all Muslims in the radical Islam group, but are unwilling to include all Christians into the radical Christian group?

You fail to see that not all Muslim fit into your sterotype, yet are more than willing to condem them all.


My God, religious groups are not racial groups. Genetically, the Jews in Israel today, are related to Huns and the like. They are a mixture of many people, just as Americans are a mixture of many people, and this religious racial stuff is mental garbage. I seriously need to find something to read besides this knee jerk thread, using terms that are emotional triggers, and are grammatical incorrect.

[PittsburghAfterDark]

Government controls industry?

Damn, I'll have to remember that the government controls my business.

I never knew!

Learn something every day.

Athena, you, are, wrong.

[BoogyMan]

The commandment may not be in the New Testament but such orders from God fill the old testament.Â*Â*Ever since this religion claiming there is a God who favors one race of people became an accepted religion, different from past mythology, there has been a terrible human problem.

Christianity is NOT under OT rule.

[BoogyMan]

My God, religious groups are not racial groups.Â*Â*Genetically, the Jews in Israel today, are related to Huns and the like. They are a mixture of many people, just as Americans are a mixture of many people, and this religious racial stuff is mental garbage.Â*Â*I seriously need to find something to read besides this knee jerk thread, using terms that are emotional triggers, and are grammatical incorrect.

Priceless! :)

[Alonzo]

Lets have book, chapter, and verse from the NT for this ridiculous claim!


Matthew 11 20-24

20Then Jesus began to denounce the cities in which most of his miracles had been performed, because they did not repent. 21"Woe to you, Korazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! If the miracles that were performed in you had been performed in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes. 22But I tell you, it will be more bearable for Tyre and Sidon on the day of judgment than for you. 23And you, Capernaum, will you be lifted up to the skies? No, you will go down to the depths.[d] If the miracles that were performed in you had been performed in Sodom, it would have remained to this day. 24But I tell you that it will be more bearable for Sodom on the day of judgment than for you."

Matthew 13 41-43, 49-50

41The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil. 42They will throw them into the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 43Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears, let him hear.

49This is how it will be at the end of the age. The angels will come and separate the wicked from the righteous 50and throw them into the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.


Act 3 23

23 And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people. .

Romans 1 30-32

30slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; 31they are senseless, faithless, heartless, ruthless. 32Although they know God's righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.


1 Corinthians 10 8-10

8We should not commit sexual immorality, as some of them did—and in one day twenty-three thousand of them died. 9We should not test the Lord, as some of them did—and were killed by snakes. 10And do not grumble, as some of them did—and were killed by the destroying angel.


2 Thessolonians 1 7-9

This will happen when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven in blazing fire with his powerful angels. 8He will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. 9They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the majesty of his power

Hebrews 10 28-29

28Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29How much more severely do you think a man deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God under foot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified him, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace? 30For we know him who said, "It is mine to avenge; I will repay,"[d] and again, "The Lord will judge his people."[e] 31It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.


2 Peter 3 7
7By the same word the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.

[BoogyMan]

20Then Jesus began to denounce the cities in which most of his miracles had been performed, because they did not repent. 21"Woe to you, Korazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! If the miracles that were performed in you had been performed in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes. 22But I tell you, it will be more bearable for Tyre and Sidon on the day of judgment than for you. 23And you, Capernaum, will you be lifted up to the skies? No, you will go down to the depths.[d] If the miracles that were performed in you had been performed in Sodom, it would have remained to this day. 24But I tell you that it will be more bearable for Sodom on the day of judgment than for you."

This is NOT calling on Christians to kill anyone.Â*Â*Nice try but you should actually learn what is being talked about.



Matthew 13 41-43, 49-50
41The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil. 42They will throw them into the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 43Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears, let him hear.

49This is how it will be at the end of the age. The angels will come and separate the wicked from the righteous 50and throw them into the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.


This is righteous judgement of God, not a commandment for Christians to kill someone.Â*Â*



Act 3 23
23 And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people. .

This is an example being given from OT history discussing Moses and Samuel forshadowing again the righeous judgement of God.Â*Â*There is no commandment for a Christian to kill someone here either.



Romans 1 30-32
30slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; 31they are senseless, faithless, heartless, ruthless. 32Although they know God's righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.


There is no commandment to kill someone here either, simply pointing out that those who do such things are, in God's eyes, deserving of death in light of mans ignorane of God's instruction.Â*Â*



1 Corinthians 10 8-10
8We should not commit sexual immorality, as some of them did—and in one day twenty-three thousand of them died. 9We should not test the Lord, as some of them did—and were killed by snakes. 10And do not grumble, as some of them did—and were killed by the destroying angel.

Where is the commandment for someone to kill someone Alonzo, its not here either.Â*Â*This points OT history.



2 Thessolonians 1 7-9
This will happen when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven in blazing fire with his powerful angels. 8He will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. 9They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the majesty of his power

Yet again, no Christian commanded to kill anyone.



Hebrews 10 28-29
28Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29How much more severely do you think a man deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God under foot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified him, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace? 30For we know him who said, "It is mine to avenge; I will repay,"[d] and again, "The Lord will judge his people."[e] 31It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.


Once again, the righteous judgement of God, no Christian is commanded to kill anyone.


2 Peter 3 7
7By the same word the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.


Gods righteous judgement, again.

You cannot simply take a bunch of verses out of context and, might I add, with a dishonest contempt and complete lack of understanding and claim that the NT commands that Christians kill people.

[Alonzo]

First, they weren't out of context. Second, I said this:

The new testament calls for death to non believers many times, it's just normally God who will be doing the killing.

You said to give you the passages, so I did.

I also find it odd that, no matter how you want to interperet the old testament as a Christian, there is no way around it in Judaism. Yet you don't condemn Judaism for such comments. You don't hold the same overly simplistic view of Judaism that you do of Islam.

[BoogyMan]

First, they weren't out of context. Second, I said this:

The new testament calls for death to non believers many times, it's just normally God who will be doing the killing.

You said to give you the passages, so I did.

I also find it odd that, no matter how you want to interperet the old testament as a Christian, there is no way around it in Judaism. Yet you don't condemn Judaism for such comments. You don't hold the same overly simplistic view of Judaism that you do of Islam.


If I were you after that last embarrassing mess I would try to change the topic too, but no deal. I specifically asked you to point out where Christians are told to kill people as that was the comparison being made and you come up with nothing and then try to obfuscate that fact.

[Alonzo]

When you asked that question I stated that it was normally god doing the killing, and then you asked for passages. I gave them. Read your own posts.

And, again, you condemn one group while giving free passes to the others.

[BoogyMan]

When you asked that question I stated that it was normally god doing the killing, and then you asked for passages. I gave them. Read your own posts.

And, again, you condemn one group while giving free passes to the others.


I hate to tell you this, because with your great knowledge of religion you probably already know, but most of those verses you tried to misuse to say Christians were to kill people at the behest of God talked about people being condemned to hell and that would happed after death.

[Athena]

Government controls industry?

Damn, I'll have to remember that the government controls my business.

I never knew!

Learn something every day.

Athena, you, are, wrong.


This may be the last straw for me.Â*Â*How many people believe the federal government is not regulating industry, is not regulating things like our forest and whatever you call the land in Alaska where there is oil, and is not regulating public education, and if airline workers can strike of not (remember Reagan caused striking airline workers to loose their jobs?)?Â*Â*If everyone agrees with the person representing himself with that smiling face of Reagan, I am out of here.Â*Â*I see a strong relationship between that face and the words posted.Â*Â*

[Athena]

The commandment may not be in the New Testament but such orders from God fill the old testament.Â*Â*Ever since this religion claiming there is a God who favors one race of people became an accepted religion, different from past mythology, there has been a terrible human problem.

Christianity is NOT under OT rule.


Fundamentalist Christians and Zionist Christians sure are. Frankly I wish we would stop speaking as though all these different groups were one religion. Christians strongly disagree with each. As do Jews and Muslims strongly disagree with other, and it is stupid to over look the division under the umbrellas of Jew, Christian, Muslim. When we talk as though Jews agree, and Christians agree, and Muslims agree, we create a false reality. There is no more agree among people of these different religions, than there is between Buddhist and Christians and Hindus. In fact, the other distortion of reality is that all these do not share major agreements. Human beings distort reality to such a degree they create conflicts that could be avoided.

Maybe the Christian group you are with isn't based on the old testament, but many Christian groups, routinely preach from the old testament. And the new testament includes Hellenism and Stoicism and the changing conscousness of the time. It is not pure of all other religious thoughts, Sumerian, Persian, Egyptian, so please, consider dropping the illusions.

[BoogyMan]

This may be the last straw for me.Â*Â*How many people believe the federal government is not regulating industry, is not regulating things like our forest and whatever you call the land in Alaska where there is oil, and is not regulating public education, and if airline workers can strike of not (remember Reagan caused striking airline workers to loose their jobs?)?Â*Â*If everyone agrees with the person representing himself with that smiling face of Reagan, I am out of here.Â*Â*I see a strong relationship between that face and the words posted.Â*Â*


Those who went on strike caused the loss of their jobs, it was a direct result of their actions.

[Athena]

"Awad said U.S. officials should take the lead from their British counterparts who steered clear of using what he considered inflammatory terms when they announced the arrest of more than 20 suspects in the reported plot".

I am curious about this British difference.Â*Â*I think perhaps people who do not use cliches and inflamatory words, such as Bush did, are clearer thinkers.Â*Â*Those who use words like Bush did, and react to them as many have, are fueled by emotion, not reason.Â*Â*It is shameful to the US to have a inflamatory President triggering people's emotions, instead of a president who remains calm and reasonable and encourages the mass along these lines.Â*Â*I think there is something dangerous with the US spirit at this time.Â*Â*It is too emotional and not rational enough.Â*Â*We are not dealing with facts in most debates but opinions and emotions.Â*Â*

Forgetting when Hitler turned around Germany's economy, the rest of the western nations thought fascism was the solution to economic problems and adopted many of the fascist features, is a serious omission of fact. Bush and his family are fascinated with Nazi, Germany because the Bush at the time was doing business with them, and imitating understood Germany.Â*Â*The Democrats are like babes lost in the woods, because they ignored this information.Â*Â*From the time Reagan scapegoated the poor for the 1970 recession caused by a fuel shortage, and slashed domestic budgets, and poured money into military spending, the Republican party strategy has clearly been modeled after Germany.Â*

Come to think of it, isn't Bush building hatred of Muslims, equal to Hitler's building hate of Jews. Oh these men ride a tight rope, appearing to be fair, and just occasionally throwing inflamatory words, that motivate people to behave in a certian and accept certian actions, SUCH AS WAR. Â*

[BoogyMan]

Forgetting when Hitler turned around Germany's economy, the rest of the western nations thought fascism was the solution to economic problems and adopted many of the fascist features, is a serious omission of fact. Bush and his family are fascinated with Nazi, Germany because the Bush at the time was doing business with them, and imitating understood Germany.Â*Â*The Democrats are like babes lost in the woods, because they ignored this information.Â*Â*From the time Reagan scapegoated the poor for the 1970 recession caused by a fuel shortage, and slashed domestic budgets, and poured money into military spending, the Republican party strategy has clearly been modeled after Germany.

And how again is it that you know that president Bush is fascinated with Nazi Germany? HOW??

Lets have some proof of his fascination with Nazi Germany.

[Athena]

Forgetting when Hitler turned around Germany's economy, the rest of the western nations thought fascism was the solution to economic problems and adopted many of the fascist features, is a serious omission of fact. Bush and his family are fascinated with Nazi, Germany because the Bush at the time was doing business with them, and imitating understood Germany.Â*Â*The Democrats are like babes lost in the woods, because they ignored this information.Â*Â*From the time Reagan scapegoated the poor for the 1970 recession caused by a fuel shortage, and slashed domestic budgets, and poured money into military spending, the Republican party strategy has clearly been modeled after Germany.

And how again is it that you know that president Bush is fascinated with Nazi Germany?Â*Â*HOW??

Lets have some proof of his fascination with Nazi Germany.


Thank goodness I have something else to do today, because trying to communicate here seems so futile. Like Bush's constant boosting of having the New World Order isn't a clue?

I tell you what. If I am not too tire this afternoon, I might start a thread, but good greif I have been bringing this up time and again since I started. Where should I begin? With the Bush family's relationship with Nazi, Germany? You are unaware of this?

[BoogyMan]

Thank goodness I have something else to do today, because trying to communicate here seems so futile.Â*Â*Like Bush's constant boosting of having the New World Order isn't a clue?Â*Â*

I tell you what.Â*Â*If I am not too tire this afternoon, I might start a thread, but good greif I have been bringing this up time and again since I started.Â*Â*Where should I begin?Â*Â*With the Bush family's relationship with Nazi, Germany?Â*Â*You are unaware of this?Â*Â*


I am aware of the business relationship that was in place of which George W. Bush couldn't have had a part. Are you persecuting every business in the country that did business wit Germany in the runup to WWII?

However, your commentary above when translated says "I have no proof of GW Bush having a fascination with Nazi Germany but I want to paint that picture in the mind of the readers of this forum."

[Rider]

Athena wrote- From the time Reagan scapegoated the poor for the 1970 recession caused by a fuel shortage, and slashed domestic budgets, and poured money into military spending, the Republican party strategy has clearly been modeled after Germany.
That's bizarre. Saying so doesn't make it so, Athena.


Athena wrote- Like Bush's constant boosting of having the New World Order isn't a clue?
I'm asking this honestly with no intent to irritate or anger you, but what, exactly is the new world order? I am of course familiar with the term, but have no concrete idea what it means. Little help?

Athena wrote- It is shameful to the US to have a inflamatory President triggering people's emotions, instead of a president who remains calm and reasonable and encourages the mass along these lines.
Presidents rarely say anything that has not been carefully thought out. I believe that what he said was intentional and deliberate. I believe that he intended to send a message to the world that we are engaged in a war against radical Islam and not this vague term "terrorism".

[PittsburghAfterDark]

Reagan didn't cause any airline workers to lose their jobs.

He fired the PATCO air traffic controllers when they went on strike. Why? Because their existing CBO made it illegal for them to go on strike as a matter of public safety.

He actually expected the government union to keep their end of the contract. When they didn't, they paid the price and rightly so.

[lily]

Rider
Presidents rarely say anything that has not been carefully thought out.

The only problem with this statement, is that Bush is known for his "off the cuff" remarks. I thought that was one of the reasons the Rebulicans liked him so much?Â*Â*I do have to admit, I cringe less now, then I did in his first term, at least now I don't want to put my hand through the TV and pull the words out, because of his hems and haws........but there are still times where he is embarrssing.......the lunch in Russia comes to mind.

I believe that what he said was intentional and deliberate. I believe that he intended to send a message to the world that we are engaged in a war against radical Islam and not this vague term "terrorism".

I'm not sure what you mean by this statement.......is the aim changed or just the name? We're no longer in a war on terror, we're in a war on radical Islam? That's not making too much sense.

[Rider]

Lily- The war has been called a "war on terror" which doesn't really have much meaning. Hopefully the administration is going to make things a little clearer.

"The only problem with this statement, is that Bush is known for his "off the cuff" remarks. I thought that was one of the reasons the Rebulicans liked him so much? I do have to admit, I cringe less now, then I did in his first term, at least now I don't want to put my hand through the TV and pull the words out, because of his hems and haws........but there are still times where he is embarrssing.......the lunch in Russia comes to mind."

Yeah, it makes you long for the Clinton years. Clinton was smoother than a baby's butt when it came to speaking. Of course he was an empty suit, but he sure sounded purdy.

[Nathan Brazil]

I'm not sure what you mean by this statement.......is the aim changed or just the name? We're no longer in a war on terror, we're in a war on radical Islam? That's not making too much sense.

It's always been a war on "radical" Islam, it's just that linking terror and Islam seems to make various groups upset. Why, I don't know. You'd think it would be no different than linking fish and water, or Jews and kosher.