The British National Party

[davo]

I've started this thread because Malte was asking about the BNP in the thread about British parties. This might be a long one, so I'll try and explain here:

For those of you who don't know, the BNP (British National Party) (http://www.bnp.org.uk) is an anti-immigration party in the UK. It is commonly described as far-right (although it does have some left-wing elements to it).

The nanny state, mass immigration (especially from the Islamic world), out of control political correctness, economic woes, and the loss of national prestige have helped fuel the growth of the far-right in the UK. Currently they only hold scattered seats on local councils, but this year they face the very real prospect of gaining seats in parliament or gaining control of councils and having mayors elected.

Currently the media, big business and academia is very hostile to the BNP, however, the Murdoch media and Neoconservative elements of the powers-that-be seem to be more permissive of anti-Arab/Islamic racism to a certain extent. This is because they're starting to view them as a threat to the current economic power structure in Europe, and most importantly, a threat to God's chosen people. Currently, they have not gone far enough as to support the BNP, although it is a possibility the finance class may do so in the future if they *really* feel threatened.

Conclusion: The BNP cannot hold any significant positions of power on its own. However, once the Murdoch and Soros class start to feel threatened in their ivory tower, and cannot deal with with the changing socio-economic threat to Britain and Europe any other way, they will help bring the BNP to power as a last resort. A BNP government may well improve things for the neglected white working class, however the same would not be said for Britain's Islamic population. The banks will be eager to find an excuse to freeze their assets en masse before having them deported, or worse.

Is this a fair analysis? I really despise the level of political correctness in the UK, and how such a great empire has declined into what it is today. A voice like the BNP might be useful to bring 'balance' against excessive political correctness if things were more democratic, but the BNP is more realistically a 'reserve' force the financial powers will keep, in case things really do get out of hand with Islam.

For those familiar with the BNP, what are your thoughts on the matter?

[satyagraha]

I'm not really familiar with the BNP, but I think it's interesting how there are parallels going on in France. There seems to be a similar backlash of far-right anti-immigrant support due to the influx of immigrants from the Middle East and Islamic world.

The question is: do movements towards anti-immigration politics like these help unite the people in a country, or help tear them apart?

[davo]

During the last French presidential elections I remember reading in the papers that people in France's (mostly African/Muslim) immigrant communities would vote for Le Pen over Sarkozy, if it were a choice between the two.

Although Le Pen has criticized immigration and multiculturalism his entire career, he went to the troubled suburbs that even Sarkozy wouldn't go, and labeled Sarkozy a Zionist, an American and a Neo-con.

To cut a long story short, the immigrant populations (especially black and Islamic) actually would have strong agreement with the modern BNP/Front National on matters of foreign policy, but strong disagreement on matters of domestic policy. The modern 'far-right' in Europe also has a strong center-left element to it as well, especially from white working-class people who feel they've been abandoned by the trade union movement.

The union movement had previously been the strongest opponent of multiculturalism and immigration from countries with lower living standards. This evaporated in the 60's and 70's, leaving a large gap of former center-left voters now turning to the BNP and FN. In fact, these movements probably have more in common with center-left parties prior to the 1960's than they do with Hitler's Reich or Mussolini.

Even the Nazi party (perhaps as a bad example) had the Strasser Brothers and the SA, who were anti-capitalist, pro-trade union and revolutionary, but also pro-white and non-Marxist. This is why they were killed off in the night of the long knives; the German industrialists agreed to put Hitler in power provided he put an end to trade unions and neutralized revolutionary elements.

To answer the question about whether anti-immigration politics help unite a country or divide it, it really depends on the context. If countries like Britain continue to cram millions of people from vastly different backgrounds, lifestyles and beliefs into a very small area, sooner or later they will get problems and divisions. This is especially so if there's a sharp decline in living standards i.e economic depression. The modern anti-immigration movements are a symptom of the social divisions caused by unsustainable immigration trends; they are not the cause.

[Alonzo]

The role of women

The BNP intends to allocate government funding to encourage mothers to stay at home and care for their family members. The BNP believes that men and women have inherently different functions in society and believes that in a family it is the woman's role as nurturer of the children while it is the man's role of protector and provider.

Racial policies

At its founding, the BNP was explicitly racist. In October 1990, the BNP was described by the European Parliament's committee on racism and xenophobia as an "openly Nazi party... whose leadership have serious criminal convictions".[62] When asked in 1993 if the BNP was racist, its deputy leader Richard Edmonds said, "We are 100 per cent racist, yes".[62] Founder John Tyndall proclaimed that "Mein Kampf is my bible".[63]

When Nick Griffin became Chairman in 1999, however, the party began to change its stance with regard to racial issues. Griffin claims to have repudiated racism, instead espousing what he calls "ethno-nationalism". He claims that his core ideology is "concern for the well-being of the English, Scottish, Welsh and Irish ethnic nations that compose the United Kingdom".

The BNP publicly disavows any interest in white supremacy. Its detractors argue that its definition of white supremacy as the "wish to rule over foreign peoples" is too narrow. The BNP requires that all members must be members of the "Indigenous Caucasian" "racial group".[13] The party does not regard non-white people as being British, even if they have been born in the UK and are British citizens. Instead, Griffin has stated that "non-Europeans who stay", while protected by British law, "will be regarded as permanent guests".[64]

Race is still important to the BNP’s understanding of nation and identity. The BNP is opposed to mixed-race relationships on the stated ground that racial differences must be preserved; it argues that when a white person produces a mixed-race child, "a white family line that stretches back into deep pre-history is destroyed." The party does however have a half Turkish Cypriot half English councillor in Lawrence Rustem.[65][66]

Despite this, in 2006, Sharif Abdel Gawad, a grandson of an Armenian refugee (also of partial Greek ancestry), was chosen as a council candidate in Bradford. The selection was reported to have caused some dissent within parts of the BNP,[67] however, it was defended by the BNP leadership who said "ordinary members can rest assured that Sharif Gawad is not a racial alien. Sharif, despite his name, is white and British and the British National Party is staying true to its core principles".[68] "Mr Gawad fulfilled the BNP criteria of being "a member of the white European race of people", they affirmed.[69]

Nick Griffin describes his views on race as follows: "... while the BNP is not racist, it must not become multi-racist either. Our fundamental determination to secure a future for white children is restated, and an area of uncertainty is addressed and a position which is both principled and politically realistic is firmly established. We don't hate anyone, especially the mixed race children who are the most tragic victims of enforced multi-racism, but that does not mean that we accept miscegenation as moral or normal. We do not and we never will." Griffin's use of the phrase "secure a future for white children" is similar to the white nationalist "Fourteen Words".

The BNP [70] supported Leeds University lecturer Dr. Frank Ellis, who was suspended from his post after stating that the Bell Curve theory "has demonstrated to me beyond any reasonable doubt there is a persistent gap in average black and white average intelligence".[71] Ellis called the BNP "a bit too socialist" for his liking and described himself as "an unrepentant Powellite" who would support "humane" repatriation.[72]

In April 2006, Sky News confronted the party's national press officer, Phil Edwards (it has been claimed that this is a pseudonym for Stuart Russell,[73]) with a tape of a telephone conversation the previous year. On the tape, Russell could be heard to say that "the black kids are going to grow up dysfunctional, low IQ, low achievers that drain our welfare benefits and the prison system and probably go and mug you."[74] He responded: "If I thought I was going to be recorded ... I would not have used such intemperate language, but let’s be honest about it, the facts are there." [75]

Anti-Semitism and Holocaust denial

The BNP, its former leaders and present leader, Nick Griffin, have promoted anti-Semitism and Holocaust denial or revisionism in the past. In 1996 writing in his own publication The Rune Griffin stated that: "I am well aware that orthodox opinion is that six million Jews were gassed and cremated or turned into soup and lampshades. I have reached the conclusion that the 'extermination' tale is a mixture of Allied wartime propaganda, extremely profitable lie, and latter witch-hysteria." [76] The following year, during a Cook Report documentary he stated: "There is no doubt that hundreds, probably thousands of Jews were shot to death in Eastern Europe, because they were rightly or wrongly seen as communists or potential partisan supporters. That was awful. But this nonsense about gas chambers is exposed as a total lie." [77]

In 1988, The Sunday Times revealed that Holocaust News, a publication that claimed the holocaust was an "evil hoax", was being published by the BNP's then deputy leader, Richard Edmonds, on behalf of a BNP front organisation, the Centre for Historical Review, and distributed by members. John Tyndall, the party's leader, said he was not involved in the publication but that it had his full support.[78]

The 2002 Channel 4 documentary "Young, Nazi and Proud" featured hidden-camera footage of the then BNP youth leader Mark Collett stating his admiration for Adolf Hitler, and stating "I'd never say this on camera, the Jews have been thrown out of every country including England. It's not just persecution. There's no smoke without fire." It also featured footage of visitors to the party's annual "Red White and Blue" festival, some of whom wore the legend "88" (code for HH, "Heil Hitler").[79] Collett resigned from the party after the documentary's filming, but rejoined shortly afterwards, with Nick Griffin's approval, on the condition that Collett changed his views on the subject.

In 2006, the party's deputy chairman Scott McLean was shown on the TV documentary "Nazi Hate Rock" [80] making Hitler salutes at a white-supremacist cross-burning ceremony where intensely racist songs were sung and jokes made about Auschwitz.[81]

The BNP claims that it has now "cast off the leg-iron ... of anti-Semitism"[82] and states that the party has Jewish members, and one of its councillors, Pat Richardson (Epping Forest), is herself Jewish [83]. Nick Griffin has also clarified his position on the Holocaust:-"several of the leftists try to sidetrack the debate down the Holocaust road although that does at least allow me to set the record straight and deal with the combination of Wikipedia lies and out-of-context propaganda and to put on record the fact that – while I used to be very angry at (and rude about) the way the left-liberals use the Holocaust as a moral club to silence debate on the key issues of our time – I have never denied the fact that the Nazis murdered huge numbers of Jews in one of the great crimes of a century of terrible inhumanity."[84]

Adam Walker, a prominent BNP member has gone further still: "As a member of the BNP I would like to make it clear that those who have expressed views critical of Holocaust deniers echo my own thoughts. I don't think it is right to deny or minimise the historic suffering of the Jewish people at the hands of an evil totalitarian regime.Nor do I think it is right to ignore the fact that the threat to the state of Israel and much anti-semitism today comes not from nationalists but from fundamentalist Islam. It is no accident that the most prominent Holocaust denier today is the Iranian president. My view is that nationalists should work with the Jewish community to defend our common Western values against this growing menace."[85]

The party's website states that racially British or European Jews may join the party.[citation needed]

Anti-Islam focus

The party states that "The BNP has moved on in recent years, casting off the leg-irons of conspiracy theories and the thinly veiled anti-Semitism which has held this party back for two decades. The real enemies of the British people are home grown Anglo-Saxon Celtic liberal-leftists ... and the Crescent Horde – the endless wave of Islamics who are flocking to our shores to bring our island nations into the embrace of their barbaric desert religion."[82] They have described this as the "islamification" of Great Britain.

Consequently, the party has shifted allegiance in conflicts involving Israel. Its head of legal affairs, Lee Barnes, wrote on the party's website about the 2006 Lebanon War: "As a Nationalist I can say that I support Israel 100% in their dispute with Hezbollah. In fact, I hope they wipe Hezbollah off the Lebanese map and bomb them until they leave large greasy craters in the cities where their Islamic extremist cantons of terror once stood."[86]

Nick Griffin has made it clear that this shift in emphasis is designed to increase the party's appeal. On one occasion, he stated, "We should be positioning ourselves to take advantage for our own political ends of the growing wave of public hostility to Islam currently being whipped up by the mass media."[87] In a speech to local party activists in Burnley in March 2006, he said:

"We bang on about Islam. Why? Because to the ordinary public out there it's the thing they can understand. It's the thing the newspaper editors sell newspapers with. If we were to attack some other ethnic group — some people say we should attack the Jews ... But ... we've got to get to power. And if that was an issue we chose to bang on about when the press don't talk about it ... the public would just think we were barking mad. They'd just think oh, you're attacking Jews just because you want to attack Jews. You're attacking this group of powerful Zionists just because you want to take poor Manny Cohen the tailor and shove him in a gas chamber. That's what the public would think. It wouldn't get us anywhere other than stepping backwards. It would lock us in a little box; the public would think "extremist crank lunatics, nothing to do with me." And we wouldn't get power."

Suggested policies to help police this "threat to all of us" include a Muslim no fly policy. This would dictate that Muslims would be banned from flying in and out of the UK. [88]

The BNP conducted a demonstration outside the offices of the National Union of Journalists (NUJ) to highlight what it regarded as biased coverage of the Hopley case. The police and the NUJ have rejected the BNP's criticism[citation needed].

Homosexuality

The BNP had traditionally maintained a policy of re-criminalisation of homosexuality.[89] The BNP opposed the introduction of civil partnerships in the United Kingdom.[90]

Explaining the party's stance, spokesman Phil Edwards said homosexuality "is unnatural" and "does not lead to procreation but does lead to moral turpitude and disease". Thus, alongside the suggestion that "it undermines social/marital cohesion by adding confusion", the BNP would make it unlawful to promote homosexuality and "return it to the closet where it belongs".[91] The BNP is particularly worried about the possibility of homosexuality being promoted in schools.[92]

In the run-up to the 2005 general election it was reported that Richard Barnbrook, then the BNP candidate for Barking, had produced and directed a homoerotic student art film in 1989. The story was picked up by the mainstream press after the 2006 local elections, when Barnbrook became a councillor and the BNP's London leader.[93] Although some portrayed this as gay pornography, Barnbrook and the BNP claimed that the film was artistic, and about "sexuality, not homosexuality"[94]

Despite this, some members of the BNP have shown hostility to homosexuals. For example, Mark Collett, former chairman of the Young BNP, described homosexuals as "AIDS Monkeys", "bum bandits" and "faggots" and said the idea of homosexuality was a "sickening thought".[95]

There have been allegations that Nick Griffin has been involved in homosexual relationships with other BNP members. Accused of hypocrisy over this matter, he vehemently denies it. [96][97]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_National_Party#The_role_of_women

[HumanBeast]

http://www.politicalcompass.org/images/enParties.gif

It's muddled thinking to simply describe the likes of the British National Party as "extreme right". The truth is that on issues like health, transport, housing, protectionism and globalisation, their economics are left of Labour, let alone the Conservatives. It's in areas like police power, military power, school discipline, law and order, race and nationalism that the BNP's real extremism - as authoritarians - is clear.


The BNP are extreme social conservatives but economically liberal.

[jafar00]

When I think BNP, I think of the following image of these "gentlemen" helping an immigrant to leave...

http://www.cheboksaryrussia.net/russia-immigration/russian-skinheads.jpg

[el comandante]

The only word needed to describe the BNP is racist.

[Matt W]

Saying the BNP is 'balanced' is like describing Alistair Campbell as a straight talker.

A more ignorant bunch of racists you'll never find.

[davo]

Saying the BNP is 'balanced' is like describing Alistair Campbell as a straight talker.

A more ignorant bunch of racists you'll never find.


Can you please explain in what way Nick Griffin is 'ignorant'? He graduated from Cambridge as a lawyer and could've quite easily have gone into human rights law or joined the Liebor party and lived on a nice salary, but he doesn't want to see his country going to the dogs. I'm not a supporter of the BNP, but I do believe they have very legitimate concerns about immigration and the future of Britain, and Nick Griffin speaks in a very intelligent manner. Have you even bothered to listen to him or read his writings lately, or are you just basing your opinions on what you've read in the Guardian or watched on the BBC?

Granted, nationalist movements attract some of the 'Nutzi' types who ARE visibly ignorant, but their leadership is usually highly intelligent and they have alot of guts and integrity to bring up issues the mainstream media wants to censor and bury. The far-left groups are probably the worst of all when it comes to ignorance. They don't think for themselves about issues one tiny bit; they remind me of the sheep in George Orwell's Animal Farm.


The BNP are extreme social conservatives but economically liberal.


Wrong. They're probably closest to economic centrism. They support things like Nationalized healthcare and public roads and railways, but leave the market intact. They're also not socially conservative in the same manner as religious fundamentalists in America. Most Nationalist groups, for example, would not share much concern about stem cell research, masturbation, cloning, genetic engineering, or abortion (in non-European countries). The BNP also overturned a ban on having homosexual members.

[Matt W]

No, I'm just amused by the way their high-profile recruits and Nick Griffin's own daughter are ignorant of their policies.

[davo]

I'd probably despise the BNP if I believed everything I read in the mainstream media. Going to their website as well as listening to Mr. Griffin speak has caused me to change my mind. The recent announcement from the Archbishop of Canterbury (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2008/02/08/nrowan108.xml&CMP=ILC-mostviewedbox) only reinforces my views, and probably others in Britain. I wouldn't be surprised if King Richard the Lionheart is screaming in his grave right now.

[el comandante]

I'd probably despise the BNP if I believed everything I read in the mainstream media. Going to their website as well as listening to Mr. Griffin speak has caused me to change my mind. The recent announcement from the Archbishop of Canterbury (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2008/02/08/nrowan108.xml&CMP=ILC-mostviewedbox) only reinforces my views, and probably others in Britain. I wouldn't be surprised if King Richard the Lionheart is screaming in his grave right now.

then lets look at what Griffin has to say

"This bloody Jew, our local MP who organised the raid whose only claim to fame is that two of his parents died in the Holocaust."

"Some antisemitism may be provoked by the actions of certain Jews themselves and thereby have a rational basis".

"Our fundamental determination to secure a future for white children is restated"

'The orthodox opinion is that six million Jews were gassed and cremated or turned into lampshades. Orthodox opinion also once held that the earth is flat ... The "extermination" tale is a mixture of Allied wartime propaganda, extremely profitable lie, and latter-day witch-hysteria'.

http://www.martinfrost.ws/htmlfiles/bnp1.html


The Archbishop made an error. At a time muslims are already victimised by the racist mainstream British press, he should have been more sensible. All he had to say is there should be equallity in our society, that sharia couerts should be allowed to operate voluntarily like the jewish orthodox courts do on civil matters. He made a stupid comment that only serves to increase the insecurities of bigots.

[jafar00]

I'd probably despise the BNP if I believed everything I read in the mainstream media. Going to their website as well as listening to Mr. Griffin speak has caused me to change my mind. The recent announcement from the Archbishop of Canterbury (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2008/02/08/nrowan108.xml&CMP=ILC-mostviewedbox) only reinforces my views, and probably others in Britain. I wouldn't be surprised if King Richard the Lionheart is screaming in his grave right now.


Actually Sharia is not that bad. They have separate sharia courts for Muslims in Malaysia and their system works quite well.

[Matt W]

Depends who you ask. I recall reading about a non-Muslim - a citizen who had converted from Islam - being tried by a sharia court. He wasn't that impressed.

The thing is, in Malaysia, the legal system is not based on nearly 1000 years of tradition and the simple fact of 'equality before the law'. British Law is.

[jafar00]

Depends who you ask. I recall reading about a non-Muslim - a citizen who had converted from Islam - being tried by a sharia court. He wasn't that impressed.

The thing is, in Malaysia, the legal system is not based on nearly 1000 years of tradition and the simple fact of 'equality before the law'. British Law is.


Sharia is based on divine revelation and over 1400 years of scholarly debate. That beats your 1000 years of tradition. :)

[Matt W]

Sharia is based on divine revelation and over 1400 years of scholarly debate. That beats your 1000 years of tradition. :)


Touche, jafar! :thumbsup:

However, it doesn't address the fact that equality before the law is everything in British Law. Sharia assumes no such thing. I'm certain that most women would choose British law over Sharia, aren't you? :ponder:

[jafar00]

Sharia is based on divine revelation and over 1400 years of scholarly debate. That beats your 1000 years of tradition. :)


Touche, jafar! :thumbsup:

However, it doesn't address the fact that equality before the law is everything in British Law. Sharia assumes no such thing. I'm certain that most women would choose British law over Sharia, aren't you? :ponder:


Actually Sharia places more emphasis on evidence and witness and automatically assumes you are innocent until proven guilty. There are also strict penalties for false accusations. There is a balance there.