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PittsburghAfterDark
08-02-2006, 04:11 PM
Marine Names Murtha in Defamation Suit

Congressman Discussed Killings Involving Serviceman's Squad in Haditha, Iraq
By Josh White

Washington Post Staff Writer
Wednesday, August 2, 2006; Page A05

A Marine Corps staff sergeant who led the squad accused of killing two dozen civilians in Haditha, Iraq, will file a lawsuit today in federal court in Washington claiming that Rep. John P. Murtha (D-Pa.) defamed him when the congressman made public comments about the incident earlier this year.

Attorneys for Frank D. Wuterich, 26, argue in court papers that Murtha tarnished the Marine's reputation by telling news organizations in May that the Marine unit cracked after a roadside bomb killed one of its members and that the troops "killed innocent civilians in cold blood." Murtha also said repeatedly that the incident was covered up.

Murtha argued that the questionable deaths of 24 civilians were indicative of the difficulties and overpowering stress that U.S. troops are facing. The congressman, a former Marine, has been a leading advocate for withdrawing U.S. forces from Iraq.

In the court filing, obtained by The Washington Post, the lawyers say that Murtha made the comments after being briefed by Defense Department officials who "deliberately provided him with inaccurate and false information." Neal A. Puckett and Mark S. Zaid, suing for libel and invasion of privacy, also wrote that Murtha made the comments outside of his official scope as a congressman.

Telephone calls yesterday to Murtha's office in Washington were referred to his district office in Pennsylvania, and calls there were not returned. A Marine Corps spokesman declined to comment yesterday on the Haditha investigation or the lawsuit.

The suit could have interesting legal ramifications because Wuterich and the other members of his squad have not been charged and have not received any official investigative documentation about the Nov. 19 incident. A Naval Criminal Investigative Service investigation is expected to determine possible charges this summer, said officials familiar with the case.

Zaid said the filing is designed partly to force Murtha to disclose what information he received from the Defense Department and the Marine Corps commandant to form his opinion, essentially trying to speed up the discovery process in a potential criminal trial.

"This case is not about money; it's about clearing Frank Wuterich's name, and part of that is to identify where these leaks are coming from," Zaid said in an interview. "Congressman Murtha has created this atmosphere that has already concluded guilt. He's created this environment that really smells, and he's the only one who has done that."

The move by Wuterich is rare, as statements made by members of Congress generally are protected under the "speech or debate" clause in Article I, Section 6, of the Constitution. But legal experts said the clause grants immunity only for what lawmakers say in legislative proceedings and does not apply to news releases, speeches and other public comments.

Rodney A. Smolla, dean of the University of Richmond Law School and a libel expert, said yesterday that Wuterich would have the burden of proving that he is innocent and that Murtha's statements were false, but he added that the quotations appear to be actionable in court. He said the suit shows that Wuterich probably thinks he did nothing wrong.

"Part of the subtext of this is it's a showing of confidence and a preemptive strike of sorts," Smolla said. "The congressman's statement does not sound as if it is merely hyperbole or opinion or name-calling. Instead, it conveys the idea that the Marines violated professional standards and perhaps the law."

Wuterich, through his attorneys, has maintained his innocence and has said that the Marines killed two dozen people that day because they were engaged in a firefight with suspected insurgents. He told his lawyers that he and other Marines used grenades and rifles to clear two houses they thought were hostile. Another Marine's detailed account of the incident, obtained by The Post, corroborates Wuterich's version.

Donald Ritchie, associate historian in the Senate Historical Office, said that such defamation suits happen from time to time but that they tend not to go anywhere because of the constitutional protections members have. He said the most famous case was in 1979, when the Supreme Court ruled that Sen. William Proxmire (D-Wis.) was not protected when he made defamatory statements to constituents in a newsletter.

"The Supreme Court has suggested that speech and debate has limits to it, and that makes people vulnerable in certain areas," Ritchie said.
Link (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/08/01/AR2006080101345.html)

I'll say it now. Mohammed Murtha will lose in November. His district is nothing like his now known personality.

dsanthony
08-02-2006, 06:57 PM
Let's hope he loses his seat, and maybe his citizenship. Let him move to Syria.

Cobra
08-02-2006, 07:06 PM
If he doesn't get re-elected because he doesn't represent his constituency then so be it but what he did was in no way bad enough that he should lose his citizenship over it.

Mayberry
08-02-2006, 07:23 PM
but what he did was in no way bad enough that he should lose his citizenship over it. Cobra, you are 16 years old. Grow up and smell the manure. Murtha should be dropped off in the middle of Iran with a "kick me" sign on his a$$.

Cobra
08-02-2006, 07:35 PM
Cobra, you are 16 years old. Grow up and smell the manure. This guy should be dropped off in the middle of Iran with a "kick me" sign on his a$$.
What he said was wrong because he nor anyone else had all the facts to be making that kind of judgments on our soldiers and if this soldier wins his case I wouldn't mind one bit but no words are enough in my book to deserve such a harsh punishment as to lose ones citizen rights and be exiled from our country. Freedom of speech and all.

That is not what our country stands for and I would suggest to anyone who thinks dropping off American citizens in foreign countries with childish signs as punishment for words they don?t like should grow up. Steeping to such a low level of behavior by our government, who would have to carry the punishment you guys are advising by the way, because we don't like someone?s words or political views would be just as wrong as what Murtha said IMO.

Mayberry
08-02-2006, 07:40 PM
That is not what our country stands for and I would suggest to anyone who thinks dropping off American citizens in foreign countries with childish signs as punishment for words they don?t like should grow up. Steeping to such a low level of behavior by our government, who would have to carry the punishment you guys are advising by the way, because we don't like someone?s words or political views would be just as wrong as what Murtha said IMO. You're trying to get into UCLA, aren't you. This guy slandered US Marines, of which he is supposed to be alumni, without due cause or evidence of any kind. He's no better than the terrorists, which is why I suggested depositing him with his own kind. The childish sign was for my own entertainment.

Cobra
08-02-2006, 07:44 PM
He's no better than the terrorists, which is why I suggested depositing him with his own kind.
So you would put a terrorist who kills 3000 of your fellow citizen at the same level as a politician who spouts some crap, Interesting comparison. Murtha is in no way as bad a a terrorist because of what he said, wrong sure but not terrorist level wrong. You are over-reacting, what he said does not make him a terrorist or even a terrorist sympathizer.

CheesyMuslim
08-02-2006, 07:47 PM
Sorry bout that,

1. But I hope this Marine sues the crap outa Mohammed Murtha.
2. Drains his bank account down to $50.00 bucks.
3. Serve him right for using these Marines for a Political ploy.
4. Let all his savings go to this Marine.
5. Then I want to hear this breathless blubber mouth, complain.

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

Alonzo
08-02-2006, 08:30 PM
Ya know what, I have no problem protecting the rights of accused murderers. They have rights like everyone else. If Murtha did something illegal there then fine, go ahead, if not then he should be cleared. But 90% of the people here wouldn't give a damn about protecting the rights of some no name accused murderer (which the military seems prepared to bring to trial) picked off the streets. That's why this is hypocritical.

When the rights of someone who shot up a 7/11 are violated none of you will be here speaking against that.

lily
08-02-2006, 10:59 PM
I do believe that the Marine staff sergeant just might be jumping the gun a little bit, since the investigation shows that indeed the 24 innocent civilians were gunned down and they are deciding to press charges.

Old Corps Gunny
08-04-2006, 11:37 PM
There's no doubt that civilians were killed; the question is about the circumstances. If the civilians were in buildings from which the Marines were taking fire and were killed when the Marines returned fire (using not just rifles, but also SAWs, machine guns and grenades), then the deaths, while tragic, are justifiable. If, on the other hand, the Marines went berserk and started killing the civilians in retaliation for an attack by "insurgents", then the deaths are not only tragic, but inexcusable and these men should be tried and convicted of murder. The facts will come out in the court-martial.

PittsburghAfterDark
08-05-2006, 12:43 AM
I'd love to agree with you Gunny but the fact of the matter is I don't think you or I would recognize the JAG corps anymore from any of the services.

The JAG's are not career soldiers and I dare to use the term soldiers, Marines, airmen or naval personnel. So many of them went into the services expecting nothing but a free ride to Harvard, Yale, Stanford, Penn etc. and had absolutely zero use for the military except as a pay day.

The JAG's as a result are the most liberal segment of the American military. How do I know? My own cousin went to the Quantico OTC program to be a Marine JAG. He is a giant tool. He actually thinks he's a Marine too despite never having done boot on the Island or Pendleton. The six week course or whatever it was he took thinks it made him bad ass. At the end of that training he declined a commission for whatever reason. Like I said, giant tool. However he did take several thousand dollars of the Marine Corps money and enrolled at Yale Law.

Of course his father was an alumni, former head of the Yale Law Review for two years and an adjunct professor but.... the Marine Corps made him a bad ass law student LOL.

My dad, an old E-5, makes fun of him so bad behind his back it's not even funny. Oh I digress though.

The guy and his New England educated hippie wife wanna be are to the left of 'zo but I get to hear about how bad ass the Marines made him every Labor Day weekend. If representitive of the JAG's these Marines are going to have as their courts martial I weep for their future.