Christianity is best when....

[Athena]

Christianity is best when there is literacy in Greek and Roman classics, and Christians don't think they are the only ones in the world who have contributed to the goodness of life on earth. I highly recommend The Great Courses by The Teaching Company for professor's lectures on many subjects including religion and philosophy. You can access them by going to www.teach12.com .

We are wisest when we begin with "I don't know".
We are the best followers of Jesus when we look for God in everyone.

We can know the most about God, when we begin with "I don't know". When we think we know God and God's will, our minds are closed to what we think we know, and we know God not. When we become so narrow minded, we start alienating others, and we stop following the teachings of Jesus.

Thinking we can love our enemies out of our own goodness and capacity for love, is narcissism, unless we are truly open to knowing about the other. This is true in marriage and international relationships. Many Christians have a very narcissitic love for themselves, not a love for there enemies as Jesus adviced them to have, and this was the first reason I began making it clear I am not Christian. Christians are far too often narrow minded, self righteous and narcissitic. They are not following the teaching of the teachings of Jesus, but are as the pharasees Jesus rebelled against.

[T.J. Wolfe]

Christians don't think they are the only ones in the world who have contributed to the goodness of life on earth.

What good have they brought upon us?

[CheesyMuslim]

Sorry bout that,

1. But much has come about from us Christians.
2. Christianity is the most charitable religion on the planet.
3. That's why when bad stuff happens, USA is there.
4. No one asks where are the Islamofascists are, after a natural disaster, or the Buddha's, or Satanists.
5. Its always us Christians who come to the rescue, and the reason we come is because of Jesus.

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

[T.J. Wolfe]

But much has come about from us Christians.

Saying it doesn't make me believe you. Prove it.

[BoogyMan]

Christianity is best when there is literacy in Greek and Roman classics, and Christians don't think they are the only ones in the world who have contributed to the goodness of life on earth.Â*Â*I highly recommend The Great Courses by The Teaching Company for professor's lectures on many subjects including religion and philosophy.Â*Â*You can access them by going to www.teach12.comÂ*Â*.Â*Â*

We are wisest when we begin with "I don't know".Â*Â*
We are the best followers of Jesus when we look for God in everyone.Â*Â*

We can know the most about God, when we begin with "I don't know".Â*Â*When we think we know God and God's will, our minds are closed to what we think we know, and we know God not.Â*Â*When we become so narrow minded, we start alienating others, and we stop following the teachings of Jesus.Â*Â*

Thinking we can love our enemies out of our own goodness and capacity for love, is narcissism, unless we are truly open to knowing about the other.Â*Â*This is true in marriage and international relationships.Â*Â*Many Christians have a very narcissitic love for themselves, not a love for there enemies as Jesus adviced them to have, and this was the first reason I began making it clear I am not Christian.Â*Â*Christians are far too often narrow minded, self righteous and narcissitic.Â*Â*They are not following the teaching of the teachings of Jesus, but are as the pharasees Jesus rebelled against.Â*Â*

Where do you get this stuff? You have tried for quite some time now to redefine everyone's worldview through a myopic focus on ancient greek history and characters. Do you even read the crap you post here or just type it between hits on the bong?

[Labrocca]

She is permanently banned.Â*Â*She wanted to leave anyways since I wasn't as Democratic as she liked. Plus she couldn't understand the forum rules here.Â*Â*I don't wish for members to leave but she had to go.

[CheesyMuslim]

Sorry bout that,

1. But re-read the, Constitution of The United States of America, there is proof there, that the USA is a Christian Nation.
2. You will know them by their works.
3. Facts lay open for all to see.

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

[T.J. Wolfe]

But re-read the, Constitution of The United States of America, there is proof there, that the USA is a Christian Nation.

Well now I'm bought.

[Concord]

2. Christianity is the most charitable religion on the planet.
4. No one asks where are the Islamofascists are, after a natural disaster, or the Buddha's, or Satanists.
,
Christianity, brought by Jesus , peace of Allah be upon him ,to make all worship for Allah nothing else ,but now ,christianity make worship for others ,and you must be aware of that ,Jesus is a servant of Allah not a son of Allah ,and all prophets are like him.

[Labrocca]

Jesus was the Son of God...to say otherwise is simply not accurate. Either you believe he was divine or you are an atheist. Mohammed was a self-proclaimed prophet...I do believe the Son of God trumps a prophet on most days.

[Concord]

Jesus was the Son of God...to say otherwise is simply not accurate.Â*Â*Either you believe he was divine or you are an atheist.Â*Â*Mohammed was a self-proclaimed prophet...I do believe the Son of God trumps a prophet on most days.Â*Â*

Muslims loves all the prophets, but Mohammed is the best , and the prophets are approximately 125 prophet and most of these prophetes are Isrealy, the best of them are Mohammed then Abraham then Moses then Jesus then Noah. Although we don't say about Mohammed that ,he is a son of Allah .
and i posted this chapter of the Holy Quran.. this chapter is the chapter of Unity..
In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful.

"112.1":Â*Â*Â*Â*Say: He, Allah, is One.

"112.2":Â*Â*Â*Â*Allah is He on Whom all depend.

"112.3":Â*Â*Â*Â*He begets not, nor is He begotten.

"112.4":Â*Â*Â*Â*And none is like Him.

So, Jesus is a humah like us, but the difference between Jesus and the other prophets is that ,Jesus has no father, and he peace of Allah be upon him born with a mother without father ,and his mother Mary or Maryam in Arabic (there is a chapter in Quran carring her name) was one of the five women who are the best women in this life ,as Mohammed peace of Allah and blessing be upon him said,this is our opinion about Jesus as Muslims .
If you want Mary chapter of Quran ,i will post that one to you ,and this is up to you.
thanks..

[Alonzo]

Jesus was the Son of God...to say otherwise is simply not accurate.Â*Â*Either you believe he was divine or you are an atheist.Â*Â*Mohammed was a self-proclaimed prophet...I do believe the Son of God trumps a prophet on most days.Â*Â*


So muslims, buddhists, jews etc. are atheists? That's a very bizarre statement to make.

Also, I know of christians who believe jesus to be the most important prophet of all, believe in God, and believe Jesus to have a connection to God more so than other prophets. Yet they either have serious doubts about, or simply don't believe that Jesus is the son of God or divine. They're followers of Christ's message, yet don't accept a major tenet of mainstream christian teaching. Early Christianity did not universally accept that teaching either. For example, a common belief among Gnostics was that Jesus was human but was taken over by the holy spirit at baptism, but was not divine or the son of God.

[dsanthony]

Christianity is best when there is literacy in Greek and Roman classics, and Christians don't think they are the only ones in the world who have contributed to the goodness of life on earth.Â*Â*I highly recommend The Great Courses by The Teaching Company for professor's lectures on many subjects including religion and philosophy.Â*Â*You can access them by going to www.teach12.comÂ*Â*.Â*Â*

We are wisest when we begin with "I don't know".Â*Â*
We are the best followers of Jesus when we look for God in everyone.Â*Â*

We can know the most about God, when we begin with "I don't know".Â*Â*When we think we know God and God's will, our minds are closed to what we think we know, and we know God not.Â*Â*When we become so narrow minded, we start alienating others, and we stop following the teachings of Jesus.Â*Â*

Thinking we can love our enemies out of our own goodness and capacity for love, is narcissism, unless we are truly open to knowing about the other.Â*Â*This is true in marriage and international relationships.Â*Â*Many Christians have a very narcissitic love for themselves, not a love for there enemies as Jesus adviced them to have, and this was the first reason I began making it clear I am not Christian.Â*Â*Christians are far too often narrow minded, self righteous and narcissitic.Â*Â*They are not following the teaching of the teachings of Jesus, but are as the pharasees Jesus rebelled against.Â*Â*




Christianity is best when its as far away from me as possible.

[CheesyMuslim]

Sorry bout that,

3. After reading what he has said, its rather depressing, for himself and anyone who reads it.

5. I am sure I would if I ever was one.
6. Thank Gawd I know the truth is in Jesus, and him only.
7. To gather seed from stony ground is a problem.
*(8. I hate it when Zo delets part of my posts, and what was posted was not an attack, it was just some points of view, etc, in a list form. Zo lied if you ask me, this isn't a attack its just a fact.)*
ADDED BY SIRJAMES 8/31/06 8:30 am

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

Edited due to personal attack against Concord. -Alonzomourning23

[dsanthony]

I doubt any muslim would be so blatantly offensive. He is probably posing as a muslim for some reason. Certainly, no "terrorist cell member" would put such an image or post online.

[Concord]

Believe me.. this is may be my final post in this forum..
but i am sorry about that..
and the reason why i put this cockpit in my signature is, because my father is an assist manager in an airline company,
and iam training to speak English, this is the reason why i registered in this forum,
and all the blessing is for Allah ,i memorize half of the Holy Quran ,and i will complete it, and you can ask me about the number of versus in The Quran by the massenger i also remeber, also I memorize the page number of each versus in the Holy Quran.
but before i leave you, i will put Mary chapter in Quran.
This what i can do.
and I am sorry finally for members and directors.

[Labrocca]

Jesus was the Son of God...to say otherwise is simply not accurate.Â*Â*Either you believe he was divine or you are an atheist.Â*Â*Mohammed was a self-proclaimed prophet...I do believe the Son of God trumps a prophet on most days.Â*Â*


So muslims, buddhists, jews etc. are atheists? That's a very bizarre statement to make.



oops...ok what I said was poorly expressed. It's these late night posts that get kind of sloppy. :-)

[CheesyMuslim]

Sorry bout that,

1. But Jesus is The Son of Gawd, still is, and is Gawd, actually.
2. So seeing Jesus is Gawd, and is also Father of himself, making himself Son and Father, both Gawd in Heaven at the same time he walked among men, *As The Son of Gawd*, on Earth.
3. Gawd only can be everywhere at the same time, which is hard for the common man to wrap his brain around.
4. That's why I'm here to show you commoner's.

Regards,
SirJamesofTexa

[T.J. Wolfe]

Gawd only can be everywhere at the same time, which is hard for the common man to wrap his brain around.

........You know, you can be confusing at times.

[Technocrat]

Sorry bout that,

1. But much has come about from us Christians.
2. Christianity is the most charitable religion on the planet.
3. That's why when bad stuff happens, USA is there.
4. No one asks where are the Islamofascists are, after a natural disaster, or the Buddha's, or Satanists.
5. Its always us Christians who come to the rescue, and the reason we come is because of Jesus.

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas


That's not true at all, but it's a wondeful wish list.

[CheesyMuslim]

Sorry bout that,

1. But sure its all true.
2. What part are you having issues with?
3. If any.
4. You seem like you have a mind for understanding things.
5. But I could be wrong about that.
6. You reason it out, and you will find I am correct.

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

[Technocrat]

Sorry bout that,

1. But sure its all true.
2. What part are you having issues with?
3. If any.
4. You seem like you have a mind for understanding things.
5. But I could be wrong about that.
6. You reason it out, and you will find I am correct.

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas


1. Only one bullet needed. No. And yes, you are wrong.

[forest_ranger254]

Having debated you before, Chess, at least your denomination of Christianity hasn't brought much good to the world. Between the Crusades, the running out of the Indians because they didn't convert to Catholicism, and the mass murder of Protestants, to modern times where, in a pathetic attempt to seem to be reaching out to more left-out communities, they ignore the deaf culture and modern practices in ASL and refuse to interpret in any except two handed alphabets and old, outdated signs.

Seeing as many people stereotype Christianity with Catholicism, Christians can't pull much weight around without needing to first explain who did what around here.

I won't talk for any but myself. I, as a Christian, try my best to follow the letter of the Bible and not man's traditions. Christianity is best when it is more than a religion. Christianity is best when it is a relationship with God and not just bland routines and rituals. Christianity is best...When it is true. And nobody can argue with that.

[forest_ranger254]

Gawd only can be everywhere at the same time, which is hard for the common man to wrap his brain around.

........You know, you can be confusing at times.


I know how you feel. I get confused by him a lot. He needs to stop apologizing for his beliefs at the beginning of his posts. It makes me think he is afraid of offending somebody. To quote Ken Davis:
"Someone who is willing to put cheese on their head definitely ain't afraid of offending nobody."

That said speaking in Green Bay, Wisconsin.

To put it in English, God is all seeing and all knowing. He knows where you will be next year at this time, and he will guide the right people in your direction so you get what you need in order to know Him. This is called God's providence. To explain it more bluntly, when Jesus was on the cross, you were on His mind.

[CheesyMuslim]

Sorry bout that,

1. But hey Forest how you been lately bud?
2. I haven't seen you around much, I bet you been busy.
3. Anyway, God Bless You Man.
4. Take care, and keep up the good work, Forest.
5. I still never take your ranting on us Catholics seriously, you just been taught that for ever, I understand bud.

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

[forest_ranger254]

Sorry bout that,

1. But hey Forest how you been lately bud?
2. I haven't seen you around much, I bet you been busy.
3. Anyway, God Bless You Man.
4. Take care, and keep up the good work, Forest.
5. I still never take your ranting on us Catholics seriously, you just been taught that for ever, I understand bud.

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas


Actually, I was raised Catholic by my grandparents. I just switched because I noticed some major dry rot in the pillars holding up the Catholic beliefs. Got my whole family to switch to. The building that is Catholic belief has some major termite problems. Remember, I don't rant, I state.

Hope you got my meaning there.

As for where I have been, I need a hiatus from the insanity that debating brings to my life. I needed to recoup, and slowly add on to the pile. I will likely be spotty, but debating is one of the things I do best. Just you wait, soon, I will be able to debate in two different languages, ASL and English.

PS: Please stop putting "sorry 'bout that" on your posts. If you need to apologize for your beliefs, you need a new belief.

[underdawg]

Jesus always seemed like a cool person in the Bible. I always found him a bit liberal and quite the non-conformist. He stood on the side of the poor and the outcast of society. I also love how he defied the Romans in a nonviolent way. My kind of dude. I don't really believe that he was the literal son of god as in devine. I have never been the type to take that leap of faith. That alone does not mean I am an atheist, just means I am not a Christian. But since I don't really believe in any other gods such as Allah, The Roman , Greek, Egyptian ,or Hindu gods, then I suppose that puts me at least being Agnostic. Since there are times when I sorta wonder if... keeps me from being a full fledged atheist.

[Anti-Racism]

He stood on the side of the poor and the outcast of society.

God forbid he'd do something logical instead of taking sides.

[piratemonkey]

I'd love to see any conservative argue that their political beliefs are closer to Jesus' teachings than liberal political beliefs.

I thought the whole point of being a Christian was to model your life after Christ's.Â*Â*

How many conservatives out there have spent time with the poor lately?Â*Â*
Visited inmates?Â*Â*
Helped the sick?Â*Â*
Key one: Turned the other cheek?

Most liberals I know live their lives much closer to the way Christ did than most conservatives I know, whether they are Christian or not.

[forest_ranger254]

I'd love to see any conservative argue that their political beliefs are closer to Jesus' teachings than liberal political beliefs.

I thought the whole point of being a Christian was to model your life after Christ's.Â*Â*

How many conservatives out there have spent time with the poor lately?Â*Â*
Visited inmates?Â*Â*
Helped the sick?Â*Â*
Key one: Turned the other cheek?

Most liberals I know live their lives much closer to the way Christ did than most conservatives I know, whether they are Christian or not.


Closer to Christ???!!!??? The liberals are the ones trying to kick Christ out of the US.

Key one: Turning the other cheek is when your pride is on the line and not your life. There is a difference. I am sorry, but there is no part of the Bible that goes against self-defence. Not even the one you brought up.

Why do I support Bush in the war? Because the lives of INNOCENT Iraqis were being torn away by Suddam. Why am I enlisting in the National Guard? Because I see it as neccessary to have people ther protecting the US when it is needed. Life isn't going to be all flowers and sunshine. There are always going to be people who want to destroy others. HAMAS wants to destroy Israel, based on their own statements. If they attack Israel, I support us going over there and telling them what for. There is no way to negotiate with HAMAS or any of these radical islamists. They want nothing more than your blood. So why negotiate when it will only, at best, delay the inevitable, at worst, cause more blood? When police negotiate with a hostage taker, do they give the perp the money or whatever he wants when the hostage is free? 'Course not. Why not apply the same thing here. The people are now free from them, are we going to give the radicals the land they want? Heck no.

Now, back to the points previous to that:
I visit the poor, but being one of them, I can't exactly help much.
I visit the sick, but I ain't no doctor.
Where does my ministry lie? I am majoring in Sign Language Interpretation, so my ministry is going to be to persons who are deaf or HOH. Those are the people I CAN help.

[underdawg]

I really don't think that a distinction was made between pride and one's life when Jesus talked about turning the other cheek. He also made a big point out of loving your enemies as you would love yourself. I would assume Jesus would be refering to the terrorists as well. I do not think it would be an easy road to walk in the footsteps of Jesus and forgive those that tresspassed against us as in the 9-11 bombings. remember at that place and time, Israel was an occupied country, much like Iraq is now. Jesus wasn't even about war or self defense. Eventhough the Romans were torchering people and crusifying them, Jesus told his followers to love the enemy and to stay true to their moral principles even in the face of death.

From what I have read of Jesus, he just doesn't seem the type to justify any sort of war. I personally think that some wars are justified when they are in self defense and no diplomatic alternative can be reached. I do not believe that this Iraqi war was one of self defense as much as it was a war to gain a stronghold and set up a democracy in the middle east.

[forest_ranger254]

I really don't think that a distinction was made between pride and one's life when Jesus talked about turning the other cheek. He also made a big point out of loving your enemies as you would love yourself. I would assume Jesus would be refering to the terrorists as well. I do not think it would be an easy road to walk in the footsteps of Jesus and forgive those that tresspassed against us as in the 9-11 bombings. remember at that place and time, Israel was an occupied country, much like Iraq is now. Jesus wasn't even about war or self defense. Eventhough the Romans were torchering people and crusifying them, Jesus told his followers to love the enemy and to stay true to their moral principles even in the face of death.

From what I have read of Jesus, he just doesn't seem the type to justify any sort of war. I personally think that some wars are justified when they are in self defense and no diplomatic alternative can be reached. I do not believe that this Iraqi war was one of self defense as much as it was a war to gain a stronghold and set up a democracy in the middle east.


Oh, you must understand something, forgiveness has a limit. Even God said there was a point that he would "leave them to their sins." Just because we leave them to their sins, doesn't mean we need to let them effect us and our loved ones and other humans. I am not defending myself when I join the army, I am defending the ones who can't defend themselves. The war in Iraq has no self-defense involved now. Bin Laden and Zarqawi are both either not in Iraq or dead. This is a war to, now that Hussein is gone, to set the Iraqis up in a government they themselves voted for (and yes they voted) with representatives they choose. We would let them have a monarchy if they chose it. The only goal there now is to train them up and get out. ANd that comes from my recruiter who was in the Middle East on a volunteer basis. Actually, Jesus never gave an opinion on what justified war, so you have to read the rest of the Bible to get an idea. And guess what, the book of Esther supported bearing arms when it was God's will for His children to be able to defend themselves.
one question, If you saw a person getting assaulted and raped, and you knew martial arts of some type, would you be justified in attacking the assaulter?

Then your answer should be the same when you are asked this question.
One group of people is killing another group of people. America sees that happening. If you say that we are not justified to remove Suddam, then you are not justified to defend a person who is being assaulted, even if it were your own daughter.

[underdawg]

For one thing, I never said that I would try to do as Jesus would do nor did I say that you should either. I just said that if you truely wanted to be more like Jesus, then going to war with your enemies would not be something he would do. I imagine it would be very difficult to do as jesus would do.

[forest_ranger254]

For one thing, I never said that I would try to do as Jesus would do nor did I say that you should either. I just said that if you truely wanted to be more like Jesus, then going to war with your enemies would not be something he would do. I imagine it would be very difficult to do as jesus would do.






And like I said, you don't have a clue what he would do because he gives no opinion on said topic. You assume that he wouldn't, but there is no basis for said assumption. THe BIble is the only source, so you must use a biblical support for that statement. Why did He sacrifice Himself? For others. SO why should we go to war? for others and, if you read the book of Esther, for your self defense.

Oh, and you did a great job of dodging my challenge in my earlier post. Answer it.

[piratemonkey]

Closer to Christ???!!!??? The liberals are the ones trying to kick Christ out of the US.

This isn't true.

Show me one single example of liberals "trying to kick Christ out of the US."Â*Â*That's ridiculous and absurd.



Key one: Turning the other cheek is when your pride is on the line and not your life. There is a difference. I am sorry, but there is no part of the Bible that goes against self-defence. Not even the one you brought up.

If you are correct, let's look at the bible verses that comes right before and after "turn the other cheek."Â*Â*Do you know 'em?Â*Â*I do.

And you are wrong.
Matthew 5:39
But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also.

Luke 6:29
If someone strikes you on one cheek, turn to him the other also. If someone takes your cloak, do not stop him from taking your tunic.

Very clearly, in Matthew and Luke it says NOT to defend yourself.Â*Â*It actually says to let them strike you again... to let them steal from you again... to NOT prevent it.

So, since you are Biblically incorrect, the rest of your argument doesn't follow.

[underdawg]

I will answer your question. Yes. I would jump to someone's defense. I have no problem with it. I also am not a Christian either and feel no reason to follow Biblical teaching.

[Anti-Racism]

You have tried for quite some time now to redefine everyone's worldview through a myopic focus on ancient greek history and characters.


There's a lot that can be learned from the ancient Greeks. I'm not sure how much bleeds through this thread though :cool:

[forest_ranger254]

This isn't true.

Show me one single example of liberals "trying to kick Christ out of the US."Â*Â*That's ridiculous and absurd.[/quote[

Ok, A pastor in Wyoming or Hawaii, I get the places mixed up all the time, was sued for preaching that homosexual was unnatural.

My friend was told that he might offend someone when he was sitting quietly reading his Bible in school study hall. Five minutes later, the same teacher passed by a person reading a Wiccan book, another person with a pocket Koran, and yet another with a Buddhist book, and said absolutely nothing.

I myself have been told that I need to leave when I went to a park wearing a shirt that had John 3:16. It was a residential, private park, but I had my ID badge with me.

If you are correct, let's look at the bible verses that comes right before and after "turn the other cheek." Do you know 'em? I do.

And you are wrong.
[quote]Matthew 5:39
But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also.Luke 6:29
If someone strikes you on one cheek, turn to him the other also. If someone takes your cloak, do not stop him from taking your tunic.
Very clearly, in Matthew and Luke it says NOT to defend yourself.Â*Â*It actually says to let them strike you again... to let them steal from you again... to NOT prevent it.

And When He next to trashed the Temple? Look, quit twisting this. Taken in context, these both refer to when it is your witness on the line. "When trials come..." Lines to the essence of, WHEN people PERSECUTE you. I am sorry, I don't see anywhere in there that He says "When someone tries to rape you." or "when someone randomly tries to kill you." Persecution comes as a result of your testimony. I ain't going to let someone accuse my brother of rape. And I ain't going to be some wimp of a Christian who won't stand up for his beliefs. Estoy es estupido. Plus its outright foolish. That was the belief of the Quakers. I am sorry, but it is not biblically incorrect when it said that God's children could defend themselves in Esther. Read the book before accusing me of being incorrect. Go home, read Esther, then report to me what you find.

In other words, you skipped right over my reference to Esther, and that leaves your argument null and void as it doesn't address the rebuttal evidence.

[forest_ranger254]

I will answer your question. Yes. I would jump to someone's defense. I have no problem with it. I also am not a Christian either and feel no reason to follow Biblical teaching.


Like I said, read Esther and find out the relevant evidence related to self-defence.

[piratemonkey]

This isn't true.

Show me one single example of liberals "trying to kick Christ out of the US."Â*Â*That's ridiculous and absurd.

Ok, A pastor in Wyoming or Hawaii, I get the places mixed up all the time, was sued for preaching that homosexual was unnatural.

Bullshit.Â*Â*Provide proof.Â*Â*If this happened, it was in a newspaper somewhere.


My friend was told that he might offend someone when he was sitting quietly reading his Bible in school study hall. Five minutes later, the same teacher passed by a person reading a Wiccan book, another person with a pocket Koran, and yet another with a Buddhist book, and said absolutely nothing.

This story is completely made up, and obviously so.

You are actually sitting here expecting us to believe that in a single study hall somewhere in the US, that 4 different children where sitting there reading 4 different religious books from 4 different religions, one being Wiccan.Â*Â*That alone isn't credible.Â*Â*What Wiccan book was it.Â*Â*What is the Wiccan religious book?Â*Â*The idea that an authority figure only told the Christian that is beyond credibility.

That never happened.Â*Â*Sorry, I don't believe you, nor would any rational person.Â*Â*Next time make up stories that are more plausible.

Even if true, that isn't an example of "trying to kick Christ out of the US."Â*Â*That's one single (likely Christian) person's bigotry.


I myself have been told that I need to leave when I went to a park wearing a shirt that had John 3:16. It was a residential, private park, but I had my ID badge with me.

Again, very unlikely this is true.Â*Â*But if it is, it's private property and people can make any rules they want.

That was YOU getting kicked out of a PARK legally.Â*Â*That wasn't CHRIST getting kicked out of the US.


And When He next to trashed the Temple? Look, quit twisting this.
Twisting this?Â*Â*I quoted you the Bible.Â*Â*The passages are very clear and in context, yet you say that I'm "twisting this?"Â*Â*How?


Taken in context, these both refer to when it is your witness on the line. "When trials come..."

Um... now you're making up Bible quotes.

Courts are mentioned in Matthew 5, but not near the verse I quoted you.Â*Â*Not even close.Â*Â*The Beatitudes give Christians the law of God, as modified from the Old Testiment.

Conservative Christians tend to forget the Beatitudes because they say things like:
Blessed are the poor in spirit,
Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Blessed are those who mourn,
Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*for they will be comforted.
Blessed are the meek,
Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*for they will inherit the earth.
Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness,
Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*for they will be filled.
Blessed are the merciful,
Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*for they will be shown mercy.
Blessed are the pure in heart,
Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*for they will see God.
Blessed are the peacemakers,
Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*for they will be called sons of God.


Not convenient Bible verse for Conservatives, is it?


Lines to the essence of, WHEN people PERSECUTE you.
Um... could you please quote the Bible instead of paraphrasing?Â*Â*I can't find any of these supposed "in context" modifiers you are talking about.

I can't find any of these things you say are in there... give me line and verse.


And I ain't going to be some wimp of a Christian who won't stand up for his beliefs.

I'm telling you what your beliefs supposedly are.Â*Â*If you don't follow the Bible, I'd hardly call your beliefs Christian.


Read the book before accusing me of being incorrect. Go home, read Esther, then report to me what you find.
:)Â*Â*I'm quoting you the Bible.Â*Â*I've read it.Â*Â*It increasingly appears that you haven't.

Esther is Old Testiment, in case you didn't know.... You do know that Jesus changed the rules when he came, right?Â*Â*That's kinda what the Beatitudes are all about.


In other words, you skipped right over my reference to Esther, and that leaves your argument null and void as it doesn't address the rebuttal evidence.


OLD TESTIMENT.Â*Â*Jesus berated people for following Old Testiment rules strictly and without thinking.Â*Â*Here, I'll give you an example from Matthew 5:
38"You have heard that it was said, 'Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.'[g] 39But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also."

See... Old Testiment rules changed. If you are living your life according to Old Testiment rules, your beliefs are more Jewish then Christian.

[forest_ranger254]

Bullshit. Provide proof. If this happened, it was in a newspaper somewhere.

Actually, if you took your head out of the sand and looked it up, you would actually notice this happening. You are the first to not claim that If you want some sources on it, check out Getthekidsout.org. They collect news articles from a lot of sources.

Again, very unlikely this is true. But if it is, it's private property and people can make any rules they want.

That was YOU getting kicked out of a PARK legally. That wasn't CHRIST getting kicked out of the US.

No they can't make rules against that. That is discrimination. If that is legal, it is also legal to, say, kick a deaf person out of the same park though they have an ID badge. I know my laws. A private organization cannot be allowed to make a bylaw that violates another law.


And When He next to trashed the Temple? Look, quit twisting this.
Twisting this? I quoted you the Bible. The passages are very clear and in context, yet you say that I'm "twisting this?" How?


Taken in context, these both refer to when it is your witness on the line. "When trials come..."

Um... now you're making up Bible quotes.

Take the verses in context of this:

1 Peter 1:7
That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:

Courts are mentioned in Matthew 5, but not near the verse I quoted you. Not even close. The Beatitudes give Christians the law of God, as modified from the Old Testiment.

The beatittudes were speaking of spiritual states, not physical.

Conservative Christians tend to forget the Beatitudes because they say things like:

Not convenient Bible verse for Conservatives, is it?

I don't forget them, I just apply them in context.

I'm telling you what your beliefs supposedly are. If you don't follow the Bible, I'd hardly call your beliefs Christian.

Maybe you forget some things about the Bible.

:) I'm quoting you the Bible. I've read it. It increasingly appears that you haven't.

Esther is Old Testiment, in case you didn't know.... You do know that Jesus changed the rules when he came, right? That's kinda what the Beatitudes are all about.

Yes, I know that, but, All scripture is "given by inspiration of God, asnd is profitable for doctrine..." That includes the Old Testament.

OLD TESTIMENT. Jesus berated people for following Old Testiment rules strictly and without thinking. Here, I'll give you an example from Matthew 5:
38"You have heard that it was said, 'Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.'[g] 39But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also."

Eye for an eye isn't from the OT. It came from the Pharisees traditional additions to the OT.

[piratemonkey]

I will respond more comprehensively later, but this statement by you:


Eye for an eye isn't from the OT. It came from the Pharisees traditional additions to the OT.


shows how little you know about the Bible.

You are wrong.


Leviticus 24:20

fracture for fracture, eye for eye, tooth for tooth. As he has injured the other, so he is to be injured.

I guess we're seeing who knows the Bible better....
*snicker*

[piratemonkey]

Eye for an eye not in the Bible... I'm still chuckling about that one.

Let's forget your persecution stories for a while and focus on what the Bible says.Â*Â*The mythological persecution of the largest religious group in America should be another thread.Â*Â*(BTW - citing kooky Christian Conservative websites as "proof" isn't going to get you very far in rational debate.)


Take the verses in context of this:

1 Peter 1:7
That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:


Um ok.Â*Â*What the hell does that have anything to do whatsoever with Jesus telling us to turn the other cheek?Â*Â*To let them take our tunic?Â*Â*Why does a single verse from a different chapter of the Bible invalidate a direct order by Jesus himself?

Please explain.



The beatittudes were speaking of spiritual states, not physical.

Can you provide evidence of this... say a quote from the Bible?

I have a very hard time believing that "Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called sons of God" is referring to a spiritual state.

Perhaps you can explain to us how a "peacemaker" can be exclusively spiritual.




I don't forget them, I just apply them in context.


And you have yet to explain at all how your context applies to the this discussion... or even what that context is.

Please explain.



Maybe you forget some things about the Bible.

Hee, hee.Â*Â*Look at my last post and see who's forgetting...



Yes, I know that, but, All scripture is "given by inspiration of God, asnd is profitable for doctrine..." That includes the Old Testament.

So when what Jesus says (turn the other cheek) disagrees with what Leviticus says (eye for and eye)... which one is correct?

I'm honestly not trying to be arrogant or mean here.Â*Â* I want you to understand that your knowledge (and mine) of the Bible is incomplete.Â*Â*Some statements you've made regarding the Bible have been utterly false, yet you claim this book is the basis of your faith.

And if you are basing your political views on a faulty reading of the Bible, perhaps a re-examination is in order.

[forest_ranger254]

Eye for an eye not in the Bible... I'm still chuckling about that one.

Let's forget your persecution stories for a while and focus on what the Bible says.Â*Â*The mythological persecution of the largest religious group in America should be another thread.Â*Â*(BTW - citing kooky Christian Conservative websites as "proof" isn't going to get you very far in rational debate.)

Dude, they collect actual news articles. In case you didn't notice, those are newspaper articles. I didn't want to have to list a dozen different sites. However, you can also contact the pastor's lawyer organization, the Christian Law Association. THey keep a log of their cases on their website.

Um ok. What the hell does that have anything to do whatsoever with Jesus telling us to turn the other cheek? To let them take our tunic? Why does a single verse from a different chapter of the Bible invalidate a direct order by Jesus himself?

Please explain.

Every verse in the Bible is equal. All are inspired the same amount. Theopnuestos is what is used in the Bible to explain itself. Therefore, this verse needs to be used when interpreting that verse in the Bible.

Can you provide evidence of this... say a quote from the Bible?

I have a very hard time believing that "Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called sons of God" is referring to a spiritual state.

Perhaps you can explain to us how a "peacemaker" can be exclusively spiritual.

We are in a spiritual war (Ephesians 8, put on the whole ARMOR of God). A spiritual peacemaker is one who tries to make spiritual peace within himself.

So when what Jesus says (turn the other cheek) disagrees with what Leviticus says (eye for and eye)... which one is correct?

I'm honestly not trying to be arrogant or mean here.Â*Â* I want you to understand that your knowledge (and mine) of the Bible is incomplete.Â*Â*Some statements you've made regarding the Bible have been utterly false, yet you claim this book is the basis of your faith.

And if you are basing your political views on a faulty reading of the Bible, perhaps a re-examination is in order.


You have yet to say where in Leviticus it is. Secondly, applications of the law are different from an individual level. the government level has to take into consideration that there is a possibility that they could kill hundreds and possibly thousands of people. A person has to stop someone from killing them on the street because we have no clue if they are going to go kill another. Jesus was speaking to people who were misusing the law (the Pharisees). A key way in the Bible that illustrates the correct application of the "eye-for-eye" laws is found in Second Samuel where David sins with Bathsheba and kills her husband. The prophet came up to him and posed a hypothetical situation:

One man has one single sheep that he takes care of. His neighbor has fields full of sheep. The neighbor has a guest come over and has a tradition of making lamb for dinner guests. Well, he goes over and steals his neighbor's one lamb instead of taking one of his own.

David jumps up and yells that the man should be made to give his sheep to the other man. Nathan, the prophet, points to David and says, "You are he." And David's own sons, under the allowed temptation from the devil, started rebelling, and his son from Bathsheba was miscarried. one son tried to take over the kingdom, and got so far as to remove David from his palace. Then he loses that son in the ensuing battle. all of his children died by the sword, throughout the generations. Even King Solomon died an unnatural death. Then, many years into the future, the final direct descendant of David gave His life on a cross for us.

[piratemonkey]

Dude, they collect actual news articles. In case you didn't notice, those are newspaper articles. I didn't want to have to list a dozen different sites. However, you can also contact the pastor's lawyer organization, the Christian Law Association. THey keep a log of their cases on their website.

I was ready to let this drop, but since you're pushing it.

Bullshit.

Quote for me the article from a mainstream news organization and provide a link.

That's how it works.Â*Â*You give us evidence.Â*Â*You don't give a website and tell us to sift through 1000's of pages on it.

Until I see evidence, you're making this up.Â*Â*Give us a link.Â*Â*That should be a trivial thing to do, but 10 posts later, you still haven't done it.


Every verse in the Bible is equal. All are inspired the same amount. Theopnuestos is what is used in the Bible to explain itself. Therefore, this verse needs to be used when interpreting that verse in the Bible.

Can you provide evidence of this... say a quote from the Bible?



We are in a spiritual war (Ephesians 8, put on the whole ARMOR of God). A spiritual peacemaker is one who tries to make spiritual peace within himself.

You again pull a completely unrelated passage from another part of the Bible and claim it has everything to do the the Beatitudes because one has the word "peacemaker" in it an the other has the word "armor" in it?

That's ridiculous.


You have yet to say where in Leviticus it is.

Are you KIDDING?Â*Â*

Leviticus 24:20

fracture for fracture, eye for eye, tooth for tooth. As he has injured the other, so he is to be injured.

This is EXACTLY the way I posted this a few posts ago (without emphasis).Â*Â*Did you miss it?Â*Â*I'm kinda tired of giving you the benefit of the doubt.

And I'm sorry here.Â*Â*I'm giving you quotes, in context.

You:Â*Â*
Don't know that one of the most famous quotes in from the Bible is actually from the Bible.
Give me stories from random parts of the Bible, sometimes the OT, and claim, without evidence that a direct order from Jesus doesn't apply in any circumstance because of that story.

That strategy isn't getting you far, here.


Secondly, applications of the law are different from an individual level.


That's incredibly convenient.

Individuals have to follow the word of God, but individuals in government don't?

Again... you are paraphrasing the Bible in your little sheep story. Quote.Â*Â*With your displaying level of Biblical knowledge, forgive me from wanting to read the original text.

I don't think this discussion is going much further.Â*Â*I give you quotes, you tell stories.

That's not an even debate.

And again... you avoided the only important question here:
If two Biblical orders contradict each other, which do you follow?

Eye for and eye, or turn the other cheek.Â*Â*Personally, I'd do what Jesus tells me to do.

[BoogyMan]

This forum should no longer be called a religion forum, rather it should be the "Bash the Religious" forum, or maybe the "Curse the Religious" forum.

[Alonzo]

Pirate is arguing against a certain christian view. I don't see where he is anti-religion, just anti that religious viewpoint.

[BoogyMan]

Pirate is arguing against a certain christian view. I don't see where he is anti-religion, just anti that religious viewpoint.


Knowing that he is discussing religion with someone who is obviously religious, allowing pirate to berate and curse at the person in his posts is allowing attacks that are designed to be personal in nature.

If he actually wanted a discussion that would be one thing, but that obviously isnt the case.

[Anti-Racism]

Knowing that he is discussing religion with someone who is obviously religious, allowing pirate to berate and curse at the person in his posts is allowing attacks that are designed to be personal in nature.

But attacking the religion is OK, I take it?

[BoogyMan]

Knowing that he is discussing religion with someone who is obviously religious, allowing pirate to berate and curse at the person in his posts is allowing attacks that are designed to be personal in nature.

But attacking the religion is OK, I take it?


The whole point of the forum is supposed to be debate about religion.

[forest_ranger254]

I was ready to let this drop, but since you're pushing it.

Bullshit.

Quote for me the article from a mainstream news organization and provide a link.

That's how it works. You give us evidence. You don't give a website and tell us to sift through 1000's of pages on it.

Until I see evidence, you're making this up. Give us a link. That should be a trivial thing to do, but 10 posts later, you still haven't done it.

I gave you a link that had two stories on it with the source material on it. If you want to try the appeal to authority argument, it won't work. I put up the source. It only had two stories on that link. Get over your lazy self and read.

You again pull a completely unrelated passage from another part of the Bible and claim it has everything to do the the Beatitudes because one has the word "peacemaker" in it an the other has the word "armor" in it?

What is armor worn for? WAR. What is the opposite of war? PEACE.

Leviticus 24:20

fracture for fracture, eye for eye, tooth for tooth. As he has injured the other, so he is to be injured.

This is EXACTLY the way I posted this a few posts ago (without emphasis). Did you miss it? I'm kinda tired of giving you the benefit of the doubt.

And I'm sorry here. I'm giving you quotes, in context.


I did not see the verse. I have over a dozen things that need to be done by tomorrow, enlistment in the National Guard, and this debating to do. Pardon me if I skim the posts.

That's incredibly convenient.

Individuals have to follow the word of God, but individuals in government don't?

Again... you are paraphrasing the Bible in your little sheep story. Quote. With your displaying level of Biblical knowledge, forgive me from wanting to read the original text.

I don't think this discussion is going much further. I give you quotes, you tell stories.

That's not an even debate.

And again... you avoided the only important question here:
If two Biblical orders contradict each other, which do you follow?

Eye for and eye, or turn the other cheek. Personally, I'd do what Jesus tells me to do.



Jesus's words are AS inspired as the OT. The NT did not erase the OT. It fulfilled it. However, government officials have to take more things into consideration. Let's see:

SUddam:
Unpredictable person who would kill his citizens every day.

He cannot be trusted to stay in his borders and leave other people alone, and last I checked, the majority of Iraqis wanted him out anyways.

Then Bush has to take into consideration your safety as well and the safety of the citizens of his country. We don't have the choice of fighting or not. IT was either fight over there, or fight over here. I would rather over there so we don't have to worry about another 9/11. You want the number of murders here to go up even more? We are saving lives that would have been lost. And my recruiter is pissed off at our media who won't show what is going on over there the majority of the time anyways. They are only showing the bad things. Nothing good is shown. You don;t have all the facts on what is going on over there. You want them? Go talk to an Army recruiter.

[piratemonkey]

I gave you a link that had two stories on it with the source material on it. If you want to try the appeal to authority argument, it won't work. I put up the source. It only had two stories on that link. Get over your lazy self and read.

Forgive me.

I (and every single other person reading this) am unwilling to sift through literally 1000's of pages of a site looking for the specific reference you are citing.

The fact that you can't link to a MSM article says all we need to know.


What is armor worn for? WAR. What is the opposite of war? PEACE.

Again... different part of the bible.
And I know of a bunch of different kinds of armor used for real war.
Can you name a type used in "spiritual war?"



I did not see the verse. I have over a dozen things that need to be done by tomorrow, enlistment in the National Guard, and this debating to do. Pardon me if I skim the posts.

Then you need to not tell me that I haven't given you the information that I have given you.



Jesus's words are AS inspired as the OT. The NT did not erase the OT. It fulfilled it. However, government officials have to take more things into consideration. Let's see:


Your whole remaining argument has nothing whatsoever to do with the Bible.Â*Â*Do you have Bible verses you can cite, or are you just asserting without proof that your views are Biblical?

This is the problem with your viewpoint.Â*Â*You claim is Christian and based upon the Bible, but when challenged, you can't come up with a single Bible quote to support your assertions.

My argument is supported by God's Word. Yours is supported by what you think God may have meant.

[piratemonkey]

You don;t have all the facts on what is going on over there. You want them? Go talk to an Army recruiter.


You are trying to tell us that an Army recruiter is the best source of information on what's going on in Iraq?!??!?!?

In August, the Government Accountability Office found that between 2004 and 2005, allegations of recruiter infractions increased from 4,400 to 6,600 cases. More troubling, perhaps, was the number of substantiated cases, which rose from more than 400 to almost 630. Criminal violations more than doubled to nearly 70 cases, according to the GAO.

Incidents included concealing medical information that would disqualify a recruit, making false promises and helping recruits get around test requirements.

Much more serious abuses have occurred, however. A lengthy investigation by The Associated Press found that more than 80 military recruiters were disciplined last year for sexual misconduct with potential recruits.

http://www.tbo.com/news/metro/MGB5G6QHZSE.html

We have a record high in documented cases of recruiters lying to recruits.Â*Â*Recruiters have every motivation in the world to paint a rosey picture of what's going on in Iraq.Â*Â*Yet you say we should listen to them instead of the media?

Wow.

[lily]

piratemonkey



What is armor worn for? WAR. What is the opposite of war? PEACE.

Again... different part of the bible.
And I know of a bunch of different kinds of armor used for real war.
Can you name a type used in "spiritual war?"

I ususally stay away from the Religious topics, but I know the answer to this one.


Holy Water.

[BoogyMan]

piratemonkey



What is armor worn for? WAR. What is the opposite of war? PEACE.

Again... different part of the bible.
And I know of a bunch of different kinds of armor used for real war.
Can you name a type used in "spiritual war?"

I ususally stay away from the Religious topics, but I know the answer to this one.


Holy Water.



Try Eph 6:13-17

13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.
14 Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;
15 And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;
16 Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.
17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:

[piratemonkey]

Nice quote... we've seen that already.

Now explain how that analogy applies to the Beatitudes.... and more importantly, how you know it applies.