English as the Official Language

[Mayberry]

Living in South Texas, this one is near and dear to my heart. Every day I see jobs advertised that say bilingual ONLY. Everything here is printed in english and spanish. I'm amazed the road signs aren't in spanish (yet). If you go to Mexico, you won't find english anywhere (well maybe a little right on the border). I don't care if you want to speak spanish or portuguese for that matter. But in America, we conduct business in english. There are many people of German descent, Indian, African, etc... We don't use any of their languages. Why are hispanics so special?

[Labrocca]

There are many people of German descent, Indian, African, etc... We don't use any of their languages. Why are hispanics so special?


I agree that English should be made official if only to save money on printing and to create a standard. As far as your statement about hispanics being special..not true. In NYC lots of printing is in Chinese as well...or any number of other languages. It really depends on the populace.

[AlonzoMourning23]

Do what you want with business. But multilingual access is essential for hospitals (I had someone arguing with me the other day, insisting that they should be english only). Multilingual road signs, police etc., when reasonable, are public safety issues. For example, I was driving from toronto to vermont once and cut across Quebec. When I entered quebec there was no english on any of the road signs. Some of the road signs I could read (I know a very small amount of french), some I understood the shape and color, but some I had no idea what they meant. Because of that I got lost in a suburb of montreal and ended up going down a one way street the wrong way. That's perfectly acceptable if I needed Italian, but over 50% of the people in Quebec can speak english, and many of the immigrants can only speak english (not french). There is also significant non french speaking tourism in that area. When that's the case, it's a different issue entirely.

If a language has a significant amount of speakers, due to either tourism or residence, and it can be reasonably provided for, then it should be used. You wouldn't provide vietnamese language assistance in my town, but a city a few towns over has about a 10% vietnamese population and does provide those things.

People don't know english the day they step into the u.s., and due to the difficulty of teaching adults new languages, many should be assisted when high level proficiency is required. People who are dependents (say a 65 year old grandmother moves here with her married, english speaking, son) may not learn english at all. Things that are public safety issues should be in multiple languages, when reasonable. You don't need spanish translation services in a town with a 1% spanish speaking population (though, again, the exception would be a hospital), but if the population is 10, 20, 30 etc. percent then yes, it should be available. The same is also true for areas that recieve many international tourists.

Again, do what you want with business. Whatever makes you the most money do that. But don't put people in danger to prove a point. Don't force miami's police force to be english only, don't force hospitals to be english only.

Personally, I don't give a damn how many languages they want to put something in. If I pick up a pamphlet and it's in spanish, I just flip it over (all of .5 seconds) and read the english side. Big deal. But multilingual services are essential when safety is involved.

[BoogyMan]

You want to come to America? Learn english and come legally and you will be welcomed warmly.

[Nathan Brazil]

What's wrong with employers demanding a certain skill from their employees? There's no difference between asking that an employee be fluent in Mex than in asking that he be able to use Excel, if that's what his job calls for.

But citizenship and official functions should demand english fluency. Voting should also require this. Driving and serving in the military and being in the fire brigade and being a cop should all also require a demonstration of effective english. Oh, and don't forget, getting elected.

There's nothing wrong with this, this started out as an english speaking nation and the new comers should conform to our culture, not demand that we conform to theirs.

[Mayberry]

Well here is a step in the right direction. It's nice to see that there a few politicians left with a little back bone. Thank you for contacting me about efforts to establish English as the official language of the United States. I appreciate having the benefit of your comments on this matter.

I believe it is important that all U.S. residents learn to read, write, and speak the English language and become familiar with U.S. history and government organization. We are a nation of immigrants, and we must continue to welcome new arrivals to our shores. But while we are a country of many, we are bound by our common language, common values, and belief in our way of government.

To ensure that potential citizens learn English, participate in our common life, and contribute positively to our culture, Senator Lamar Alexander and I introduced the Strengthening American Citizenship Act (S. 1815) in the 109th Congress, legislation designed to promote the assimilation of immigrants into the American life by providing access to civics, history, and English language courses—with a specific emphasis on the Constitution of the United States, the heroes of American history, and the meaning of the Oath of Allegiance. This legislation would also encourage prospective citizens to learn English by allowing those who are fluent to qualify for citizenship in four years. Normally, applicants must wait five years to qualify.

Also during the 109th Congress, Senator James Inhofe proposed S.Amdt. 4064 to the Comprehensive Immigration Reform Act of 2006 (S. 2611). This amendment would declare English the national language of the United States and promote the patriotic integration of prospective United States citizens. I voted for the amendment, and it was added to S. 2611 by a vote of 62 to 35.

I appreciate having the opportunity to represent the interests of Texans in the United States Senate. Thank you for taking the time to contact me.

Sincerely,

JOHN CORNYN
United States Senator

[micfranklin]

I'm all for being a diverse country and all, but here we speak English. If we're in Spain, speak spanish, in France, speak French. And if you want to be a true U.S. citizen, then go to a school where they teach you to speak English and you'll be on your way.

[Buck Laser]

So we've managed for more than 200 years as a nation without an official language, and now we need one? I know that Spanish is the target here, but I guess most of you just don't realize that we've had immigrant enclaves in this country throughout its history, where only native language was spoken. My father-in-law spoke only Danish when he started to school, back about 1908 or so, and one of the Lutheran churches in DeKalb, IL, where I lived for 24 years, held a weekly service in Finnish.

English is certainly the language of commerce here, and will continue to be. I'd think some of you good libertarians would realized that we don't need no steenkin' LAW to get us to keep on speakin' Ingles. Get a life, folks!

[firefox]

I support linguistic freedom. Immigrants usually learn the language over time if they want to make a living. By the second generation, there is a near 100% compliance with the English norm, though proficiency is always something to be improved upon (accents, etc.). Private organizations and individuals must be free to choose their requirements. Passing laws is never the answer.

[Buck Laser]

I'm all for being a diverse country and all, but here we speak English. If we're in Spain, speak spanish, in France, speak French. And if you want to be a true U.S. citizen, then go to a school where they teach you to speak English and you'll be on your way.


Actually, a fair number of people in Spain speak Basque; others speak Catalan. And in France, there are people who speak Breton, a form of Gaelic.

[Buck Laser]

I support linguistic freedom. Immigrants usually learn the language over time if they want to make a living. By the second generation, there is a near 100% compliance with the English norm, though proficiency is always something to be improved upon (accents, etc.). Private organizations and individuals must be free to choose their requirements. Passing laws is never the answer.


This is one of those places where I agree with the libertarian position. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. But what really scares people when they hear a foreign language being spoken is that they fear someone is saying nasty things about them.:P And I can think of a few posters about whom a foreign language speaker might say nasty things.:D

[AlonzoMourning23]

But what really scares people when they hear a foreign language being spoken is that they fear someone is saying nasty things about them. And I can think of a few posters about whom a foreign language speaker might say nasty things.

You get used to it. I grew up around people who spoke Hindi and Gujarati. The Hindi speaking family almost always spoke english, and since the son and daughters couldn't really speak it, I never had to deal with people holding conversations me when I was around. The only time they really spoke it was at parties and it was between adults.

Now the ones who spoke Gujarati (they're from Gujarat, India), that was sometimes awkward. They were all fluent speakers, and the children (who were born in america) were taught both english and Gujarati from birth.

In that house I'd be talking to one of them, then they'd turn to someone else and go (I'm using daka to indicate all the words I can't understand, bold to indicate english, and large text to indicate yelling)

Mother: daka daka daka daka daka daka daka Jon daka daka
Son: no daka daka daka daka stupid daka daka daka daka daka why not
Mother: daka daka daka daka daka daka daka daka daka daka daka daka daka daka daka daka daka daka Jon daka daka daka daka
Son: daka daka daka I don't caredaka daka daka
Mother: daka daka daka daka daka daka Jon daka daka daka daka
Son: So Jon, you want to go play basketball?
Me: Alright, I just gotta go home first to get the basketball
Mother: daka daka daka daka daka daka daka daka daka
Son: daka daka daka daka stupid
Mother: daka daka daka daka daka jon daka daka daka daka
Son: Alright let's go
Son: daka daka daka daka daka daka
Mother: Jon daka daka daka daka daka

That happened almost daily, or at least every other day.

[Pookie]

I voted YES. Personally, I do not like having to press "1" for my native language. There is something inherently wrong here when you have to be bilingual to get certain jobs. You come here, learn the language. We should NOT have to give into those who refuse to learn.
Interestingly enough, I am a security officer, and these folks seem to understand "jail" pretty fast. Yep, I speak 5 languages. Nobody fools me.
Purrs,

[jafar00]

In my opinion, if you go to live in a foreign country and wish to do business or work and live there, you should make an effort to learn the language. No excuses.
Ok, so I'm guilty for living in France but not learning more than basic French, but my chosen business is conducted over the internet in English, with English speaking Americans, Austrians, Germans, Italians etc...
If I were to take a regular job here though, it would be expected of me to have more than a basic level of French language skills in order to do it.
In France there are a LOT of Arabs, yet you don't see too many signs in Arabic nor are you expected to learn Arabic to work. Everyone knows French as it is the official language of France.

[Mayberry]

So we've managed for more than 200 years as a nation without an official language, and now we need one? Yes. 200 years ago people didn't demand that everything be printed in Spanish. I'd think some of you good libertarians would realized that we don't need no steenkin' LAW to get us to keep on speakin' Ingles. You say that now. In 10 years when the flood of illegals has made the Hispanic population the majority, then where will we be? I do not like having to press "1" for my native language. Amen, sister! Especially after hearing instructions in Spanish first! There is something inherently wrong here when you have to be bilingual to get certain jobs. And another Amen! And being bilingual in English and German won't get you that job either. In my opinion, if you go to live in a foreign country and wish to do business or work and live there, you should make an effort to learn the language. No excuses.
Well said Jafar. In France there are a LOT of Arabs, yet you don't see too many signs in Arabic nor are you expected to learn Arabic to work In America, you see signs in Spanish all over the place, and you are expected to know Spanish to work (in some cases).

[Jaysun]

When you visit or move to another country they don't use English they use their language. We shouldn't cater to those that come over here.

[Stoner]

Ok, what morons voted "no" on this poll? I notice the results are conveniently not public.

[potter]

If we're going to demand that English be spoken in America as the official language we should also demand that only proper English be used.Â*Â*None of this Southern drawl shit, none of that Texas "nucular" crap..no slang. And we need to purge the foreigner influence out of our language...you know, all them commie Greek and Latin, Spanish or whateverÂ*Â*words. What good is English if you can't understand what's being said. Proper enunciation and usage of the pure English language only.Â*Â*None of that text message shit either.

[Mayberry]

None of this Southern drawl sh1t, none of that Texas "nucular" crap..no slang. Well shut mah mouth! Ah reckon Ah could live with that if'n it wern't fer them damn yankees and that thar funny talkin' they do. And bah thuh way, it's pr'nounced NOOKler. Damn yankee. :P "I'm from Bwastin" (Boston). Heh heh heh.

[potter]

None of this Southern drawl sh1t, none of that Texas "nucular" crap..no slang. Well shut mah mouth! Ah reckon Ah could live with that if'n it wern't fer them damn yankees and that thar funny talkin' they do. And bah thuh way, it's pr'nounced NOOKler. Damn yankee. :P "I'm from Bwastin" (Boston). Heh heh heh.



:D

[bobbylien]

Smells like a lame attempt to gain seats by feeding off peoples bigotry. My grandparents came over from Norway in the 30s. My grandpa landed on Normandy and fought for this country even though he couldn't write a word in english. My grandma isn't even a US citizen and still doesn't really speak english very well. People don't come to our country to move away a few months later, they come to live their lives here and learning english comes with it. Immigration is the soul of this country.
Something tells me that we wouldn't be having this discussion if the majority of the immigrants were from western Europe and not Mexico. This same shit has come up many times throughout the history of our country and we were always smart enough to resist the bigotry. I'm not so confidant that we will be able to now. The fools have taken this country over.

[Professor]

I think some jobs should require more than one language. Mainly for police, doctors, or any job working in an emergency situation.

It takes 7 years to learn a new language. This means 7 years, even for a new born kid to fully grasp how to talk. So 3 years in Maria gets hurt and goes to the ER. Despite trying very hard with her English lessons she still doesn't know what "operate," "appendix" and "HMO" mean.

[Stoner]

It takes 7 years to learn a new language

Maybe for the slower-witted people but most people can grasp a second language in 2 years max.

[bobbylien]

Maybe for the slower-witted people but most people can grasp a second language in 2 years max.

You can learn everything you need to know in 2 years but it definitely takes longer to learn the entire language.

[micfranklin]

I'm all for being a diverse country and all, but here we speak English. If we're in Spain, speak spanish, in France, speak French. And if you want to be a true U.S. citizen, then go to a school where they teach you to speak English and you'll be on your way.


Actually, a fair number of people in Spain speak Basque; others speak Catalan.Â*Â*And in France, there are people who speak Breton, a form of Gaelic.


The main point I was trying to make was that when you're in a country, at least make an attempt to learn and speak it's native language.

[Saigio]

I think we should return to the language that was originally spoken here if we want to pick an official language. Lets have a true sense of tradition here people.

[micfranklin]

I think we should return to the language that was originally spoken here if we want to pick an official language. Lets have a true sense of tradition here people.


But why should this country divert from English to the original spoken language? More importantly, who will actually go along with this?

[Stoner]

You can learn everything you need to know in 2 years but it definitely takes longer to learn the entire language.


Negative.Â*Â*I already explained it to you once. I won't explain it again.

[Saigio]

I think we should return to the language that was originally spoken here if we want to pick an official language. Lets have a true sense of tradition here people.


But why should this country divert from English to the original spoken language? More importantly, who will actually go along with this?


I never mentioned English. I said that we should go back to the original langauge spoken here first. Read carefully.

[Mayberry]

I never mentioned English. I said that we should go back to the original langauge spoken here first. Right, but the majority of us speak English, the language that we would have to give up. Read carefully. :rolleyes:

[Saigio]

I never mentioned English. I said that we should go back to the original langauge spoken here first. Right, but the majority of us speak English, the language that we would have to give up. Read carefully. :rolleyes:


Well, doesn't it make more sense to return to the orginal language of the land instead of changing it? I mean, changing language is what you are fighting.

Oh, by the way, I'd like to see what statistics you are using. i am interested, as I had heard quite a different one before.

[micfranklin]

I think we should return to the language that was originally spoken here if we want to pick an official language. Lets have a true sense of tradition here people.


But why should this country divert from English to the original spoken language? More importantly, who will actually go along with this?


I never mentioned English. I said that we should go back to the original langauge spoken here first. Read carefully.


But the original language was something that probably wasn't English, which happens to be the language a lot of us are using.

[Saigio]

I think we should return to the language that was originally spoken here if we want to pick an official language. Lets have a true sense of tradition here people.


But why should this country divert from English to the original spoken language? More importantly, who will actually go along with this?


I never mentioned English. I said that we should go back to the original langauge spoken here first. Read carefully.


But the original language was something that probably wasn't English, which happens to be the language a lot of us are using.


But alot of people also don't use english as a first language.

[Mayberry]

Oh, by the way, I'd like to see what statistics you are using. i am interested, as I had heard quite a different one before.
This is a ridiculous statement.

[Saigio]

Oh, by the way, I'd like to see what statistics you are using. i am interested, as I had heard quite a different one before.
This is a ridiculous statement.



It is a simple question. I am not questioning you. I am merely curious as to the statistics you have for languages. Take it as you will, but blowing it out of proportion is rather stupid.

[micfranklin]

I think we should return to the language that was originally spoken here if we want to pick an official language. Lets have a true sense of tradition here people.


But why should this country divert from English to the original spoken language? More importantly, who will actually go along with this?


I never mentioned English. I said that we should go back to the original langauge spoken here first. Read carefully.


But the original language was something that probably wasn't English, which happens to be the language a lot of us are using.


But alot of people also don't use english as a first language.


A lot of American people?

[Saigio]

I think we should return to the language that was originally spoken here if we want to pick an official language. Lets have a true sense of tradition here people.


But why should this country divert from English to the original spoken language? More importantly, who will actually go along with this?


I never mentioned English. I said that we should go back to the original langauge spoken here first. Read carefully.


But the original language was something that probably wasn't English, which happens to be the language a lot of us are using.


But alot of people also don't use english as a first language.


A lot of American people?


I'm not 100% positive. Maybe you could rpovide a statistic on language? Mayberry got offended when I asked.

[micfranklin]

I think we should return to the language that was originally spoken here if we want to pick an official language. Lets have a true sense of tradition here people.


But why should this country divert from English to the original spoken language? More importantly, who will actually go along with this?


I never mentioned English. I said that we should go back to the original langauge spoken here first. Read carefully.


But the original language was something that probably wasn't English, which happens to be the language a lot of us are using.


But alot of people also don't use english as a first language.


A lot of American people?


I'm not 100% positive. Maybe you could rpovide a statistic on language? Mayberry got offended when I asked.


Although the United States currently has no official language, English has long been the de facto national language. English is spoken by about 82% of the population as a native language and nearly everyone in the United States uses it daily.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_in_the_United_States

[Saigio]

I think we should return to the language that was originally spoken here if we want to pick an official language. Lets have a true sense of tradition here people.


But why should this country divert from English to the original spoken language? More importantly, who will actually go along with this?


I never mentioned English. I said that we should go back to the original langauge spoken here first. Read carefully.


But the original language was something that probably wasn't English, which happens to be the language a lot of us are using.


But alot of people also don't use english as a first language.


A lot of American people?


I'm not 100% positive. Maybe you could rpovide a statistic on language? Mayberry got offended when I asked.


Although the United States currently has no official language, English has long been the de facto national language. English is spoken by about 82% of the population as a native language and nearly everyone in the United States uses it daily.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_in_the_United_States


Okay. Thank you. I admit, I was mistaken. I had thought I heard a statistic somewhere that said otherwise. I see that I was wrong.

[potter]

Well, doesn't it make more sense to return to the orginal language of the land instead of changing it? I mean, changing language is what you are fighting.

Oh, by the way, I'd like to see what statistics you are using. i am interested, as I had heard quite a different one before.


You mean the original language of the Native Americans? There must have been hundreds of dialects....

Which one?

[Saigio]

Well, doesn't it make more sense to return to the orginal language of the land instead of changing it? I mean, changing language is what you are fighting.

Oh, by the way, I'd like to see what statistics you are using. i am interested, as I had heard quite a different one before.


You mean the original language of the Native Americans? There must have been hundreds of dialects....

Which one?


Well why not the one that was spoken by those that came over across the land bridge when they got here.

[potter]

:D Ok...

Grunt...squeak...whistle......

[Saigio]

:D Ok...

Grunt...squeak...whistle......


Hey, we want to keep our nation traditional.

[wilsonbd]

We cannot have a United States when we practice multilingualism. Our country and its governments (federal, state, and local) need to function under one language - U.S. English.

It is fine for individuals to speak as many and whatever languages they have a proficiency for; however, our country needs to operate under one language.

As for what Zo was talking about with hospitals and medical establishments, the responsibility to communicate in English is on the patient. If you don't speak English, you don't receive care unless you provide translation services. It isn't the responsiblity of the institution or society to provide you with these services. No translator, no service. If you die because of this, so be it. It is YOUR responsibility!

Everyone should contact their elected officials at all levels and insist legislation supporting U.S. English as a constitutional amendment so that states and municipalities cannot subvert it.

[lily]

As for what Zo was talking about with hospitals and medical establishments, the responsibility to communicate in English is on the patient. If you don't speak English, you don't receive care unless you provide translation services. It isn't the responsiblity of the institution or society to provide you with these services. No translator, no service. If you die because of this, so be it. It is YOUR responsibility!


.......but if you're deaf or mute, they'll still take care of you or are you condeming them to death also?

Seriously, I can kind of agree with you on some level here. I don't think if someone comes into the emergency room, they should be forced to speak English. Pain can do odd things to you and I would think that you would naturally revert back to your own language.

On the other hand, my daughter in law always goes to the hospital and insists on staying if her parents are ever admitted. Although they speak English, it's hard for them to understand and be understood. She does this mostly for their saftey though.

[wilsonbd]

.......but if you're deaf or mute, they'll still take care of you or are you condeming them to death also?

Seriously, I can kind of agree with you on some level here. I don't think if someone comes into the emergency room, they should be forced to speak English. Pain can do odd things to you and I would think that you would naturally revert back to your own language.

On the other hand, my daughter in law always goes to the hospital and insists on staying if her parents are ever admitted. Although they speak English, it's hard for them to understand and be understood. She does this mostly for their saftey though.


Lily... Dearest. You really need to rethink this point. Deaf and dumb are considered handicaps or disabilities when it comes to speech. That is not a language issue. :rolleyes: I think it would be in their best interest if they had someone familiar with them however. I would never hold a hospital responsible if such a situation occurred and the person expired. The facility would do whatever it could.

I stand by my statement. No English. No service. Society does not have to pickup the tab or go out of their way to support every odd or end that strolls into an emergency room especially when they arrive days or weeks before downloading an anchor baby or they have no health insurance. That's another point all onto itself.

Your DIL sounds conscientious and loyalty to her parents. That should be both admired and copied by many of the newest generations. We can salute her for that.

Ciao!

[ViolaLee]

You English only sound like the French, who refuse to speak English.

Do you love the French or something?

lol!

[Pookie]

Well, back to the topic, yes, the national language should be English.
However, there were those before us: Navajo, Cherokee, Sioux, Apache, etc.
Those are the REAL native languages here.
Does anyone ever hear "Press 'one' for Navajo?
Makes one wonder.
Purrs,

[Marley]

The reason we should have a single, official language is becasue we are self-governed.

In order to be self-governed, we must live by a means of written law.

And words mean things.

Any literary snob will assure you assure you written works lose something in translation.

And in law, there can be volumes of documentation to define and clarifiy as little as a single word.

So, obviously, the law we govern ourselves by should be one law with one exact specific meaning, in one language.

[NortheastCynic]

It is strange to me that conservatives favor a national language. For such strong believers in the market, I would have guessed that they would believe the market can solve this issue as well. We do not need a nationally legislated language [nor is it in the power of the Federal Government to create one], practically speaking, one cannot go very far in this country without learning English. If there is a market for nonEnglish speaking individuals, fine, if not, those who cannot speak the language will have to adapt and learn the language to find a niche in the market.

-NC

[AlonzoMourning23]

Lily... Dearest. You really need to rethink this point. Deaf and dumb are considered handicaps or disabilities when it comes to speech. That is not a language issue. :rolleyes: I think it would be in their best interest if they had someone familiar with them however. I would never hold a hospital responsible if such a situation occurred and the person expired. The facility would do whatever it could.

I stand by my statement. No English. No service. Society does not have to pickup the tab or go out of their way to support every odd or end that strolls into an emergency room especially when they arrive days or weeks before downloading an anchor baby or they have no health insurance. That's another point all onto itself.

Your DIL sounds conscientious and loyalty to her parents. That should be both admired and copied by many of the newest generations. We can salute her for that.

Ciao!


This isn't the u.s., but it's a pretty good example of what I'm saying. In Markham Ontario about 35% of the population is chinese. The vast majority speak cantonese or mandarin. Are you suggesting that with a population of that size the hospital shouldn't ensure that they have staff on hand who can speak that language?

Or what about in Montreal? The majority speak both english and french and you have a massive amount of english speaking tourists. They shouldn't ensure that they have people to speak english? Obviously they have english speaking staff but, if they didn't, they shouldn't make sure that they get one? Or in Miami, they shouldn't make sure they have people who can speak spanish?

Hospitals are there to help people, not make political points. If you have a high volume of X admissions you need to make sure you can care for them.

[lawless168]

I voted for english, but I really don't understand why we need to make it law

[lily]

I voted for english, but I really don't understand why we need to make it law


Is that why they call you lawless..........sorry, couldn't resist.

[preservanation]

The Key aspect to this is ASSIMILATION. Language is the corner stone to accomplishing this.
Nations with large populations who, for whatever reason, fail to assimilate are doomed. It relegates them to the permanent underclass and inevitable problems ensue. Europe is the screaming example of this. Look at France and most recently Briton.

How can assimilation be controversial????

It is best for all, 'cept the libs. They NEED a permanent underclass to survive politically and they are the masters at keeping other people's suffering acute.

[NortheastCynic]

So if assimilation is necessary for success in America, and language is key to assimilation, why would we need a law to enforce it? As I said, let the market create a uniform language and set of rules, not the government. If an immigrant wants to have a shot at success, he/she will learn English.

-NC

[Pookie]

Why should this be an issue when our Constitution, the Gettysburg address, and other important documents that we follow are in ENGLISH?? This country was founded upon English-speaking people. Never do you see anything but that in our Constitution and Bill of Rights. No Latin, no Spanish, no French.
Check your history, folks, and please, please check this thoroughly. Never once were any of our laws, or anything else -- were ever in Spanish.
I will reiterate what I have said before -- I am damn tired of having to push (1) for English.
I was in Germany lately and by the way, they don't give you a choice. I like that. We need to do that. You don't try to speak our language, go away. Find another country that will take you. If you're too damn lazy to learn, go away. You want special treatment? Go away. You want to become a productive, positive influence here, please learn English and use it. For those who are positive productive folks who have tried to learn English and who have come in here honestly -- I am on your side.
Be here honestly or if you choose not to be, I have no sympathy for you.
Purrs,

[Mayberry]

Pookie, that was absolutely beautiful. It really was. And it strikes a chord with most Americans, who cherish their country. Thank you, and happy Independence Day!

[NortheastCynic]

Pookie, I agree with you that non-english speaking individuals should not be given "special treatment" by the government. However, that does not prove the need for a law to force people to do something that is simply not requiring of force. If you come to America and don't learn the language that is your choice, and as a result of your choice, your niche in the market is severely limited. Choose to learn English, your possibilities improve.

-NC

[firefox]

Has anyone considered that language control could become thought control?

[lily]

I don't get the connection, firefox.[/align]

[firefox]

Think about it. It's the same as with every new government program. First it only applies to the bureaucrats, then to certain industries or groups of individuals, then everyone. Look at the examples of mandatory insurance, max/min wages/hours, income taxes, etc.

[AlonzoMourning23]

I want to see an "abolish the minimum wage" rally before I die. Hopefully in a a really poor part of a major city. That would be funny watching peoples reactions.

[Pookie]

That is yet another topic. This is all about English being our primary or secondary language.
I will ask again here: is anyone sick and tired of having to press (1) for English?
Purrs,

[firefox]

No. Yo hablo espanol tambien. Tiene una problema?

[Mayberry]

No sprackenzie spanglish.

[bobbylien]

I will ask again here: is anyone sick and tired of having to press (1) for English?

Are you sick of it to the point that you would let people die just to get rid of it?

[NortheastCynic]

Being sick of pressing 1 for English and making a law forcing others to speak it are two extremely different things.

-NC

[firefox]

Yes. Complain to the company or government department if you don't like it. If enough people complain, something will be done eventually. Why not try to learn what is being said in the other languages? I love to do my ATMing in other languages to brush up a tad...

[Tyler7940]

If you are Legal, you can speak english and if your not legal......You shouldnt be in our country. It's as simple as that. Illegal Aliens arent immigrants, They are criminals.It's so damn stupid that everything you see nowadays if written in Eniglish and Spanish.....I went to walmart the other day and saw a Readers Digest Written all in Spanish.....once again I say, If youre legal you can speak English. This is just political correctness run amuck.

[3.14]

Late to the debate, but I'll add my $0.02: -

- I agree that people who come to the US should be prepared to conduct their business in English, and make an attempt to speak the language fluently (side not: it's not that hard to learn English, really, when compared to some other foreign languages)

- I don't think businesses should be forced to do away with the multiple language option though; I think it should be their choice.

- Should signs be multi-lingual? I think so, yes. . . Write everything in English first, but I see no harm in writing the same thing in Spanish underneath. This is done in many countries - China is one; Though their official language is only Mandarin, and english is only now beginning to catch on, signs will usually be in English/Chinese both, and most major companies will have the "Press 2 for English" option. Of course, this has been done so that foreigners feel more at home there, but I see nothing wrong with doing the same thing in the US.

Also, it's not done only with languages, measurements are sometimes made in both the metric and imperial system even in the US. Case in point being Maine - distances are sometimes shown in both kms and miles as one inches up closer towards Canada. . .[hr]
That is yet another topic. This is all about English being our primary or secondary language.
I will ask again here: is anyone sick and tired of having to press (1) for English?
Purrs,


It hardly matters to me - pressing '1' once is OK so long as the person who gets on the line can speak decent enough English. Of course, there is the whole problem of GETTING someone on the phone - it seems one has to go through a barrage of freaking numbers these days to get a live person on the phone - but thats another topic altogether!!

:D

[AlonzoMourning23]

Also, it's not done only with languages, measurements are sometimes made in both the metric and imperial system even in the US. Case in point being Maine - distances are sometimes shown in both kms and miles as one inches up closer towards Canada. . .


That's why I oppose these things, it's a safety issue. You go into ontario, vermont, maine etc. especially near the border they all realize that they need to accomodate tourists. Quebec? They make a conscious effort to avoid anything that even reminds them of english. The result? I ended up going down a one way street the wrong way in a suburb of montreal (there was a sign in french stating that, but no picture on it). I wasn't even visiting there, I was simply passing through on my way to Vermont from Toronto and stopped to get gas.

[exigent]

Yes. Complain to the company or government department if you don't like it. If enough people complain, something will be done eventually.


Tried that, but we're still in Iraq.

On the subject...as annoying as it is...I would only support it to an extent. In terms of tourism, seeing signs in different languages can be helpful to visitors. But if you live here, at least try to learn english as a courtesy. What gets me is the amount of immigrants here in socal who have lived here for 10 years or more that dont speak a word of english.

Typically when foreigners immigrate they will move to an area where they are still with their kind, who still speak their language all day. They watch spanish tv and listen to spanish radio, etc...

[3.14]

Also, it's not done only with languages, measurements are sometimes made in both the metric and imperial system even in the US. Case in point being Maine - distances are sometimes shown in both kms and miles as one inches up closer towards Canada. . .


That's why I oppose these things, it's a safety issue. You go into ontario, vermont, maine etc. especially near the border they all realize that they need to accomodate tourists. Quebec? They make a conscious effort to avoid anything that even reminds them of english. The result? I ended up going down a one way street the wrong way in a suburb of montreal (there was a sign in french stating that, but no picture on it). I wasn't even visiting there, I was simply passing through on my way to Vermont from Toronto and stopped to get gas.



Well yes, it could certainly be a safety issue if you look at it that way. . . But Canada IMO should CERTAINLY have signs in both French and English, given that both are official Canadian languages (as far as I know).

I think the reasonable thing is to have signage in both English and whichever language is the dominant one in a certain region - of course, this brings up the question of "Why not have signs in Chinese?!" for one. . . Not sure how a middle ground would be found on that one! I guess the only logical thing to do would be to make signs in English and English alone, but then there is the point you brought up.

[AlonzoMourning23]

That's why my great grandparents did, minus the tv. Growing up my grandparents lived in the west end of Boston, a largely italian neighborhood but with a large polish population. They only spoke polish at home (when my great grandmother moved here she could only say "hello" and "thank you" in english), listened to polish radio and their record collection (when they eventually bought one) is almost entirely polish music with a bit of classical thrown in (at least all the ones that are still in our possesion).

The belief that immigrants came here and immediately learned english and gave up their past culture to do things just like they already did in america is a myth.

[3.14]

What gets me is the amount of immigrants here in socal who have lived here for 10 years or more that dont speak a word of english.


Am in agreement with you here. If one moves to a country, the least one can do is learn at least a little of the native language there! Expecting others to bend over for you without even making a small effort oneself is not right.[hr] The belief that immigrants came here and immediately learned english and gave up their past culture to do things just like they already did in america is a myth.


They don't have to give up their culture/language. They just have to learn, or at least attempt to learn English. That's all - and I think it's fair, considering English is the most commonly used language in most parts of the US!

[AlonzoMourning23]

Well yes, it could certainly be a safety issue if you look at it that way. . . But Canada IMO should CERTAINLY have signs in both French and English, given that both are official Canadian languages (as far as I know).

Quebec makes a point of emphasizing their differences, which is why they avoid english. It's intentional, they want you to know that they speak french there. They don't want English to takeover.

I think the reasonable thing is to have signage in both English and whichever language is the dominant one in a certain region - of course, this brings up the question of "Why not have signs in Chinese?!" for one. . . Not sure how a middle ground would be found on that one! I guess the only logical thing to do would be to make signs in English and English alone, but then there is the point you brought up.


In Markham, ontario the population is over 30% chinese and there are signs in both English and Chinese in many areas, as well as parts of downtown toronto and northeast toronto.

[3.14]

Well yes, it could certainly be a safety issue if you look at it that way. . . But Canada IMO should CERTAINLY have signs in both French and English, given that both are official Canadian languages (as far as I know).

Quebec makes a point of emphasizing their differences, which is why they avoid english. It's intentional, they want you to know that they speak french there. They don't want English to takeover.

And that's stupid - if English is one of the official languages, then avoiding their own official language makes zero sense to me.


I think the reasonable thing is to have signage in both English and whichever language is the dominant one in a certain region - of course, this brings up the question of "Why not have signs in Chinese?!" for one. . . Not sure how a middle ground would be found on that one! I guess the only logical thing to do would be to make signs in English and English alone, but then there is the point you brought up.


In Markham, ontario the population is over 30% chinese and there are signs in both English and Chinese in many areas, as well as parts of downtown toronto and northeast toronto.


So they have signs in both English and Chinese, but not English, Chinese and French? I'd personally not support that - I mean, if I were a French speaking Canadian citizen I'd expect to go anywhere in Canada, and still see sigs in French!

Consider NJ in the US - huge number of Indians there - should signs be both in English and Hindi, or one of the many Indian languages? I'm sure you see the problem here. :)

[preservanation]

Members have come to a "consensus" that English should be the official language. (75%)
Debate over, it is now "fact".

[AlonzoMourning23]

[quote=alonzomourning23]
[quote=3.14]
And that's stupid - if English is one of the official languages, then avoiding their own official language makes zero sense to me.

The point is they don't want english as an official language. At least many of them don't.


So they have signs in both English and Chinese, but not English, Chinese and French? I'd personally not support that - I mean, if I were a French speaking Canadian citizen I'd expect to go anywhere in Canada, and still see sigs in French!

I didn't say that exactly. Any government sign where instructions are written has to have english and french, and they often have other common languages. The issue with chinese is that the writing of the language is different. If you don't know "arrete" means "stop" you still know it says "arrete", which is good enough for signs that give street or other names. But if you speak chinese and don't understand french or english then most likely "arrete" "sidewalk" "one way" "jackass" and "canada" all mean nothing to you since the characters you know are entirely different.

Consider NJ in the US - huge number of Indians there - should signs be both in English and Hindi, or one of the many Indian languages? I'm sure you see the problem here. :)


If one language is dominant among the Indian population and that represents a significant minority then as a safety measure it should be on vital signs and hospitals, police stations etc. should ensure that they have means of communicating with that population. Ensuring that your hospital or police station has someone who can converse in Arabic (or can get ahold of someone who can) when you're in Fargo, North Dakota shouldn't be required, but it should be if you're in dearborn, michigan.[hr]
Members have come to a "consensus" that English should be the official language. (75%)
Debate over, it is now "fact".


I guess now facts are determined by popular opinion.

[preservanation]

Zo: I guess now facts are determined by popular opinion.
They are when it concerns man made garble warming.

[AlonzoMourning23]

Zo: I guess now facts are determined by popular opinion.
They are when it concerns man made garble warming.


I wasn't aware that scientific data and research is now called "popular opinion". The facts exist regardless of what the masses think.

[firefox]

Welcome to the wide wonderful world of democracy! 8-)

[3.14]

The point is they don't want english as an official language. At least many of them don't.

Well, I'd say the majority does want it as an official language, since if the majority didn't, English wouldn't be an official language in Canada. . . It's a democracy after all.


So they have signs in both English and Chinese, but not English, Chinese and French? I'd personally not support that - I mean, if I were a French speaking Canadian citizen I'd expect to go anywhere in Canada, and still see sigs in French!

I didn't say that exactly. Any government sign where instructions are written has to have english and french, and they often have other common languages. The issue with chinese is that the writing of the language is different. If you don't know "arrete" means "stop" you still know it says "arrete", which is good enough for signs that give street or other names. But if you speak chinese and don't understand french or english then most likely "arrete" "sidewalk" "one way" "jackass" and "canada" all mean nothing to you since the characters you know are entirely different.

I did not mean to say you said that, I was just making a point. :)

If any government sign HAS to be written in both English and French though, then I do not see how they get away with writing some stuff only in English and Chinese. Furthemore, the issue here isn't if the languages are written differently, the point is, signs should be written in both national languages.



Consider NJ in the US - huge number of Indians there - should signs be both in English and Hindi, or one of the many Indian languages? I'm sure you see the problem here. :)


If one language is dominant among the Indian population and that represents a significant minority then as a safety measure it should be on vital signs and hospitals, police stations etc. should ensure that they have means of communicating with that population. Ensuring that your hospital or police station has someone who can converse in Arabic (or can get ahold of someone who can) when you're in Fargo, North Dakota shouldn't be required, but it should be if you're in dearborn, michigan.

You evaded the point I was trying to make, which is: How many languages should we then put on signs? NYC has people of ALL ethnicities living in it - should signs in the Chinese areas be in English, Chinese; signs in the Indian area be in English (and some Indian language)? That is just too chaotic. . .

Furthermore, to address your first sentence - I would personally expect the Indians to learn English to communicate with the locals (Americans) in case of an emergency - I would not expect Americans to learn Hindi, for instance! And that's how it should be - if someone goes to another country, they should learn the local language as best as they can. . .