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lily
12-28-2007, 10:05 PM
I totally forgot about those POWs who sued, got their money and then got their money taken away. So now, Bush says hurry up and send me the money, or you don't support the troops.......but it seems it's him who's not doing the supporting (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22420862/)

Bush plans to veto defense policy bill

updated 2 hours, 58 minutes ago
CRAWFORD, Texas - President Bush plans to veto a sweeping defense policy
bill on grounds that it would derail Iraq's efforts to rebuild its country,
the White House said Friday.

Bush's action, which apparently caught congressional leaders off guard,
centers on one provision in the legislation dealing with Iraqi assets. The
legislation would permit plaintiffs' lawyers immediately to freeze Iraqi
funds and would expose Iraq to "massive liability in lawsuits concerning the
misdeeds of the Saddam Hussein regime," said White House spokesman Scott
Stanzel.

"The new democratic government of Iraq, during this crucial period of
reconstruction, cannot afford to have its funds entangled in such lawsuits
in the United States," Stanzel said in a statement.



Surprise disapproval
House and Senate Democrats said Friday that the first time they'd heard of
any White House concerns with the legislation was after Congress sent the
bill to Bush for his signature.

"The administration should have raised its objections earlier, when this
issue could have been addressed without a veto," Speaker Nancy Pelosi,
D-Calif., and Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., said in a joint
statement. "The American people will have every right to be disappointed if
the president vetoes this legislation, needlessly delaying implementation of
the troops' pay raise, the Wounded Warriors Act and other critical
measures."

Sovereign nations are normally immune from lawsuits in U.S. courts. An
exception is made for state sponsors of terrorism and Iraq was designated
such a nation in 1990. After the 2003 invasion of Iraq, however, Congress
passed a law and Bush issued a decree stating that Iraq was exempt from such
lawsuits.

After that exemption was passed, the administration challenged and
successfully overturned a $959 million court ruling for members of the U.S.
military who said they were tortured as prisoners of war during the first
Persian Gulf War.

The Justice Department also sought to defeat a lawsuit brought by U.S.
citizens held hostage during Iraq's 1990 invasion of Kuwait. That case has
been taken over by lawyers for the new Iraqi government and is ongoing in a
Washington federal court.

Imperiled Irarqi assets
The provision that is causing problems would have allowed the victims of the
executed Iraqi dictator Saddam to seek compensation in court, Democrats
said. The Iraqi government has warned that former U.S. prisoners of war from
the first Gulf War might cite this legislation in an attempt to get money
from the Iraqi government's reported $25 billion in assets now held in U.S.
banks, they say.

Unless Bush vetoes the legislation, the Iraqis have threatened to withdraw
all of their money from the U.S. financial system to protect it from the
lawsuits, Democrats said.

The White House contends the legislation subject to the Bush veto would
imperil Iraqi assets held in the United States, including reconstruction and
central bank funds.

"Once in place, the restrictions on Iraq's funds that could result from the
bill could take months to lift," Stanzel said. In turn, he said, those
restrictions must not be allowed to become law "even for a short period of
time."

Shot back Reid and Pelosi: "We understand that the president is bowing to
the demands of the Iraqi government, which is threatening to withdraw
billions of dollars invested in U.S. banks if this bill is signed."

Military pay raises
The White House says the bill authorizes 0.5 percent of the 3.5 percent pay
raise that the nation's troops are expected to receive, and that part will
be wiped away by the veto.

Stanzel said the administration will work with Congress to get the
additional pay raise approved and retroactive to Jan. 1 under a reworked
bill. He said the bulk of the raise for the troops - 3 percent - is slated
to go into effect anyway.



Overall, the bill authorizes $696 billion in military spending, including
$189 billion for the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, for the 2008 budget year.
It aims to provide more help to troops returning from war and set conditions
on contractors and pricey weapons programs.

The measure reflects the best Democrats could do this year on their national
security agenda while holding such a slim majority. Powerless to overcome
GOP objections in the Senate, the bill does not order troops home from Iraq,
as Democrats would have liked.

While it does not directly send money to the Pentagon, the bill is
considered a crucial policy measure because it guides companion spending
legislation and dictates the acquisition and management of weapons programs.

Shintao
12-28-2007, 10:18 PM
So once again Bush screws the troops. What could we expect from a Vietnam War deserter and spineless republicans.

Kevin67
12-28-2007, 11:45 PM
There are parts of the bill that make us slip money to the enemy and billions of dollars of earmarks, I dont blame Bush for vetoing it.

Bush does want money for funding for the troops and veterans, but not with hundreds of complications.

BoogyMan
12-29-2007, 01:07 AM
Once again it would appear that a bill crafted specifically to garner a veto was sent to the president's desk. Regardless of what you think of the president you would think that a bill would be crafted that could fund our troops without the additional troublesome requirements that the majority party knows will get it shot down.

Now tell me again exactly who it is playing politics with our military on the line?

lily
12-29-2007, 02:52 AM
There are parts of the bill that make us slip money to the enemy and billions of dollars of earmarks, I dont blame Bush for vetoing it.

Bush does want money for funding for the troops and veterans, but not with hundreds of complications.


Hundres of complications? Slipping money to the enemy? Earmarks?

You would rather the money go to the corrupt Iraqi government than members of the military that filed a lawsuit because they were tortured as prisoners of war during the first Gul War or the citizens held hostage during the invasion of Iraq?

He's the one screaming that he needs the money NOW.[hr]
Once again it would appear that a bill crafted specifically to garner a veto was sent to the president's desk. Regardless of what you think of the president you would think that a bill would be crafted that could fund our troops without the additional troublesome requirements that the majority party knows will get it shot down.

Now tell me again exactly who it is playing politics with our military on the line?


Now congress is suppose to read his mind?

Surprise disapproval
House and Senate Democrats said Friday that the first time they'd heard of
any White House concerns with the legislation was after Congress sent the
bill to Bush for his signature.

"The administration should have raised its objections earlier, when this
issue could have been addressed without a veto," Speaker Nancy Pelosi,
D-Calif., and Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., said in a joint
statement. "The American people will have every right to be disappointed if
the president vetoes this legislation, needlessly delaying implementation of
the troops' pay raise, the Wounded Warriors Act and other critical
measures."

Fishingriver
12-29-2007, 10:40 PM
Obviously, Bush has no intention of working with congress. Bush vetoed without warning congress before the bill was approved. Congress cannot function that way and neither can democracy.
I am pleased in a way to hear the partisan republicans use the same old worn out bumper stickers to defend Bush's abuses of executive power. It will serve them well to remember that they felt the president was God when a president they didn't vote for is in office. Personally, I think Bush or any president who attempts to thwart the basic precepts of how our democracy functions should be impeached.
The conservatives ideology seems to be directly shaped by whatever defense serves Bush. Its reduced to a partisan battle because to argue for Bush from a conservative viewpoint would be literally impossible.

Lazarus
12-29-2007, 11:29 PM
In issuing this " pocket " veto, Bush has violated the Constitution under two separate instances.


http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2007/12/20071228-5.html
The adjournment of the Congress has prevented my return of H.R. 1585 within the meaning of Article I, section 7, clause 2 of the Constitution. Accordingly, my withholding of approval from the bill precludes its becoming law. The Pocket Veto Case, 279 U.S. 655 (1929). In addition to withholding my signature and thereby invoking my constitutional power to "pocket veto" bills during an adjournment of the Congress, I am also sending H.R. 1585 to the Clerk of the House of Representatives, along with this memorandum setting forth my objections, to avoid unnecessary litigation about the non-enactment of the bill that results from my withholding approval and to leave no doubt that the bill is being vetoed.

Article I, section 7 of the Constitution:

Every bill which shall have passed the House of Representatives and the Senate, shall, before it become a law, be presented to the President of the United States; if he approve he shall sign it, but if not he shall return it, with his objections to that House in which it shall have originated, who shall enter the objections at large in their journal, and proceed to reconsider it. If after such reconsideration two thirds of that House shall agree to pass the bill, it shall be sent, together with the objections, to the other House, by which it shall likewise be reconsidered, and if approved by two thirds of that House, it shall become a law. But in all such cases the votes of both Houses shall be determined by yeas and nays, and the names of the persons voting for and against the bill shall be entered on the journal of each House respectively. If any bill shall not be returned by the President within ten days (Sundays excepted) after it shall have been presented to him, the same shall be a law, in like manner as if he had signed it, unless the Congress by their adjournment prevent its return, in which case it shall not be a law.

First off, " Congress " is not adjourned.
Secondly, dumfuk cannot even count to 10.
10 days have not elapsed since this bill was delivered to Bush.

He is too chicken-shit to sign his name to this veto, yet he insists that Congress recognize it as such.

By his very act of returning it to the Clerk of the House, he is trying to have it both ways.

If George Jr wishes to play this game, Congress could just as easily not acknowledge this pocket veto.
If any bill goes unsigned ( yes or no ) within 10 days of Bush receiving it, it becomes law by default.

To further stymie his efforts, Pelosi should authorize a member of the House to hold a pro-forma session on Monday 31 Dec.
That would fall within the 10 day time frame required for any valid pocket veto.

Make Bush formally veto this Defense bill, or allow it to become law.

But he will not allow that to happen.
Not because of the lame excuse he gave, but because of :

Sec. 1079. Communications with the Committees on Armed Services of the Senate and the House of Representatives.
(a) Requests of Committees- The Director of the National Counterterrorism Center, the Director of a national intelligence center, or the head of any element of the intelligence community shall, not later than 45 days after receiving a written request from the Chair or ranking minority member of the Committee on Armed Services of the Senate or the Committee on Armed Services of the House of Representatives for any existing intelligence assessment, report, estimate, or legal opinion relating to matters within the jurisdiction of such Committee, make available to such committee such assessment, report, estimate, or legal opinion, as the case may be.

(b) Assertion of Privilege-

(1) IN GENERAL- In response to a request covered by subsection (a), the Director of the National Counterterrorism Center, the Director of a national intelligence center, or the head of any element of the intelligence community shall provide to the Committee making such request the document or information covered by such request unless the President determines that such document or information shall not be provided because the President is asserting a privilege pursuant to the Constitution of the United States.

(2) SUBMISSION TO CONGRESS- The White House Counsel shall submit to Congress in writing any assertion by the President under paragraph (1) of a privilege pursuant to the Constitution.

(c) Definitions- In this section:

(1) INTELLIGENCE COMMUNITY- The term `intelligence community' has the meaning given the term in section 3(4) of the National Security Act of 1947 (50 U.S.C. 401a(4)).

(2) INTELLIGENCE ASSESSMENT- The term `intelligence assessment' means an intelligence-related analytical study of a subject of policy significance and does not include building-block papers, research projects, and reference aids.

(3) INTELLIGENCE ESTIMATE- The term `intelligence estimate' means an appraisal of available intelligence relating to a specific situation or condition with a view to determining the courses of action open to an enemy or potential enemy and the probable order of adoption of such courses of action.

This is, and always will be, about withholding evidence of crimes.

Troops be damned.

apdst
12-29-2007, 11:47 PM
So once again Bush screws the troops. What could we expect from a Vietnam War deserter and spineless republicans.

Would anyone be screaming about the troops getting screwed if Pelosi had cut off war funds? No Liberals would, anyway.

lily
12-30-2007, 12:37 AM
Would anyone be screaming about the troops getting screwed if Pelosi had cut off war funds? No Liberals would, anyway.


I'm not sure.......is this considered a red herring or a strawman?

Lazarus
12-30-2007, 12:50 AM
Would anyone be screaming about the troops getting screwed if Pelosi had cut off war funds? No Liberals would, anyway.


I'm not sure.......is this considered a red herring or a strawman?


Straw Herring ?

apdst
12-30-2007, 01:06 AM
I'm not sure.......is this considered a red herring or a strawman?

It's neither. It's a question. A very fair question. I remember how excited the Liberals were when they thought that our troops would suddenly find themselves without beans and bullets; how it was going to such a wonderful and righteous move making the water crystal clear and making food taste better. "Peace in our time", if you will. Now, when Bush does exactly what the Dems didn't have the guts to do, he's, "screwing the troops".

Fishingriver
12-30-2007, 02:18 AM
I remember how excited the Liberals were when they thought that our troops would suddenly find themselves without beans and bullets

Funny how you could remember something that no liberal anywhere at anytime ever thought. Aren't you really just making up what you think liberals think so you have an argument against it?

AnnEsthesia
12-30-2007, 02:27 AM
That is a common neocon trait, Fishingriver. They have the ability to decide what liberals think and say and they believe if they spout it often enough, it becomes true.

apdst
12-30-2007, 02:47 AM
Funny how you could remember something that no liberal anywhere at anytime ever thought

The Liberals weren't excited at the prospect of the new congressional majority cutting off funding as a means to force an end to the war?

lily
12-30-2007, 02:56 AM
Funny how you could remember something that no liberal anywhere at anytime ever thought

The Liberals weren't excited at the prospect of the new congressional majority cutting off funding as a means to force an end to the war?


No......they were asking for timetable.......you know, signs of progress. But no worry......they gave up on that too.

No one was calling for an immediate withdrawl. Everyone knows that's impossible.

You see, but now you've totally changed the subject. This isn't about Liberals or Pelosi. Bush is getting what he wants, and because some US soldiers want compensation which, by the way, they won......until Bush said no and now it's in appeal.........but now I'm going off topic......the proble here is, ap..... that this money that he's so worried about has NOTHING to do with the troops.

apdst
12-30-2007, 03:25 AM
No one was calling for an immediate withdrawl. Everyone knows that's impossible.

I sure don't remember it that way.

PatrickHenry
12-30-2007, 03:37 AM
I call for immediate withdrawal.

But I ain't a liberal...

Mark L Hamburger
12-30-2007, 03:39 AM
how is an immediate withdrawal impossible?

PatrickHenry
12-30-2007, 03:41 AM
You just say..."war's over...we'll be heading back to the US now..."

Fishingriver
12-30-2007, 03:44 AM
The Liberals weren't excited at the prospect of the new congressional majority cutting off funding as a means to force an end to the war?


They didn't try to cut off funds. They offered Bush the funds with conditions and he refused. But that is beside the point. The troops were never in danger except that they are in Iraq.[hr]
The Liberals weren't excited at the prospect of the new congressional majority cutting off funding as a means to force an end to the war?


They didn't try to cut off funds. They offered Bush the funds with conditions and he refused. But that is beside the point. The troops were never in danger except that they are in Iraq.

Mark L Hamburger
12-30-2007, 03:49 AM
You just say..."war's over...we'll be heading back to the US now..."


That's what I thought, isn't that what we did in Vietnam?

PatrickHenry
12-30-2007, 06:35 AM
Yep. Left it to the natives to sort out.

And now they are trading partners.