Germany vs. America

[Shintao]

I found an interesting impartial website on Germany vs, America.

I can't help but notice how advanced Germany is compared to America, and yet the German Socialists pay about the same amount of taxes as we do, and have less people to pay those taxes than Americans do. I have come to the conclusion that is all a state of mind - how America chose to spend it's tax money.

Now I wish Americans worked 35 hour jobs, had only one job to support them, had far more worker benefits like full medical coverage, full wage retirements, twice as many paid holidays, mandatory 45 day vacations each year, unlimited unemployment, job training, etc. Yet we don't, and I cannot seem to figure out why that is.

Maybe it is the unions in Germany that makes the difference of fair human treatment of their workers and retirees, not to forget unemployed and disabled. Imagine not digging in your pocket for retirement and health care at one of their many recreational health resorts. Surely if we care about the American worker, we would see to it that his needs are being met over the course of his lifetime, but for some reason that is not being done in America.


And I wish America had spent it's money on nation wide bullettrain transportation buzzing along at 200+ mph, and 200+ autobons that are being retrofitted for automatic driving with no driver at the controls. No backed uped bumper-2-bumper traffic. Free roadside service and a fully conducted medical & emergency system. Yet we don't, and I cannot seem to figure out why that is.

Do we lack the intelligence to provide for ourselves? I believe it was Germany that installed our first bullet train. Of course we were 2nd into space, so that shows some intelligence, of course the engineers were Germans brought here after WWII. We have colleges!

So maybe some of the heavy weights around here will chime in and explain why Germanys state of mind has done so well for its people and nation, and America state of mind is faultering?

The political fodder: http://math-www.uni-paderborn.de/~axel/us-d.html#unions

He also has a place to ask or answer questions.

[Keith Hamburger]

And I wish America had spent it's money on nation wide bullettrain transportation buzzing along at 200+ mph, and 200+ autobons that are being retrofitted for automatic driving with no driver at the controls. No backed uped bumper-2-bumper traffic. Free roadside service and a fully conducted medical & emergency system. Yet we don't, and I cannot seem to figure out why that is.

With a total length of autobahn in Germany of under 8000 miles, we could have a road from New York to Chicago to Denver to San Francisco to LA to Phoenix to Dallas to Atlanta and back to New York, and we would pretty much have as much as Germany does. If the US was the size of Germany, we could easily have their road system. But, of course, without speed limits the revenue to the government would drastically decrease.

As to rail, Germany has less than 500 miles of high speed rail. From Denver (as one example) that would reach Cheyenne, WY to Albuquerque, NM. What do you propose we do with the rest of the country?

Keith

[Shintao]

And I wish America had spent it's money on nation wide bullettrain transportation buzzing along at 200+ mph, and 200+ autobons that are being retrofitted for automatic driving with no driver at the controls. No backed uped bumper-2-bumper traffic. Free roadside service and a fully conducted medical & emergency system. Yet we don't, and I cannot seem to figure out why that is.

With a total length of autobahn in Germany of under 8000 miles, we could have a road from New York to Chicago to Denver to San Francisco to LA to Phoenix to Dallas to Atlanta and back to New York, and we would pretty much have as much as Germany does. If the US was the size of Germany, we could easily have their road system. But, of course, without speed limits the revenue to the government would drastically decrease.

And since America is bigger than Germany, with more taxpayers working longer hours, less holidays, less vacations & two jobs, why did you say we don't have 200+ autobons? Maybe America has the same amount of people as Germany & more miles of land? Is that what you are saying? And since we have no autobon at all, is my real point. Why is that?

As to rail, Germany has less than 500 miles of high speed rail. From Denver (as one example) that would reach Cheyenne, WY to Albuquerque, NM. What do you propose we do with the rest of the country?

Considering we have more taxpayers per mile of 200+ bullet train rail, why did you say we only have a few miles in America, and not a bullet trainsversing America? I suggest you get highspeed rail for the rest of the country. That is what America needs.

Do you know that any object weighing over 100 ton in CA., has to be loaded on a barge like we did 200 years ago here at Frisco, and barged and unloaded in LA. We have no means for heavy transportation to go over the grapevine in North LA. Why do you suppose that is? IS it a state of mind in how we spend our money? I would really like to see America get up to speed so we can compete with the World. I notice China is just coming out of the dark ages, and already they are building the fastest bullet train system in the World. If China can do it, why can't America?

[Keith Hamburger]

And since America is bigger than Germany, with more taxpayers working longer hours, less holidays, less vacations & two jobs, why did you say we don't have 200+ autobons? Maybe America has the same amount of people as Germany & more miles of land? Is that what you are saying? And since we have no autobon at all, is my real point. Why is that?

Considering we have more taxpayers per mile of 200+ bullet train rail, why did you say we only have a few miles in America, and not a bullet trainsversing America? I suggest you get highspeed rail for the rest of the country. That is what America needs.

Do you know that any object weighing over 100 ton in CA., has to be loaded on a barge like we did 200 years ago here at Frisco, and barged and unloaded in LA. We have no means for heavy transportation to go over the grapevine in North LA. Why do you suppose that is? IS it a state of mind in how we spend our money? I would really like to see America get up to speed so we can compete with the World. I notice China is just coming out of the dark ages, and already they are building the fastest bullet train system in the World. If China can do it, why can't America?


The comparison is the same for Germany and China vs. the US. It has to do with population density. The number of people per square mile tends to cause the problems.

Keith

[Shintao]

And since America is bigger than Germany, with more taxpayers working longer hours, less holidays, less vacations & two jobs, why did you say we don't have 200+ autobons? Maybe America has the same amount of people as Germany & more miles of land? Is that what you are saying? And since we have no autobon at all, is my real point. Why is that?

Considering we have more taxpayers per mile of 200+ bullet train rail, why did you say we only have a few miles in America, and not a bullet trainsversing America? I suggest you get highspeed rail for the rest of the country. That is what America needs.

Do you know that any object weighing over 100 ton in CA., has to be loaded on a barge like we did 200 years ago here at Frisco, and barged and unloaded in LA. We have no means for heavy transportation to go over the grapevine in North LA. Why do you suppose that is? IS it a state of mind in how we spend our money? I would really like to see America get up to speed so we can compete with the World. I notice China is just coming out of the dark ages, and already they are building the fastest bullet train system in the World. If China can do it, why can't America?


The comparison is the same for Germany and China vs. the US. It has to do with population density. The number of people per square mile tends to cause the problems.

Keith


The only problem I am discussing is why Germany is so advanced in it's care of it's workers and development of it's country, with the same amount or taxes paid per person. If we all pay the same amount, why is it that we are falling behind all industral nations? No bullet trains, no autobons. Why are our workers overworked to achieve a minimal existence, and still have to pay for their own retirements and health care? I mean, we are talking about a serious amount of cash going somewhere if we cannot afford these simple luxuries to our people. So where is it?

I think it is a state of mind, but maybe there is some other reasons leading us to failure. Surely we are intelligent. Surely we have money. So what is the anchor dragging us down that Germany isn't experiencing? Even their EURO is worth a half-more than the USD, in just 5 years, while we devalue ours daily.

You think the Republicans & conservatives would be chiming in by now, instead of hoping this thread just goes away.

[Mia]

The Military. It's pretty expensive to be the world's only superpower.

[Mark L Hamburger]

The Military. It's pretty expensive to be the world's only superpower.


It's extremely expensive to support our empire. We need to end military welfare for Germany and Japan (among others), let them handle their own defense.[hr]The US doesn't have an autobahn because, compared to Germany, American's can't drive worth a crap.

in Germany, the cost to get a license is somewhere close to $1500 USD. plus, they are VERY strict on regulations, inspection of vehicles, and rules as to which lane you remain in while on the highway

Most of the primary Autobahn system was built between 1935 and 1939, making it 21 years older than the US interstate system. The actual first portion of the Autobahn was laid between 1913 and 1921 as a test-bed, and was used both for traffic and racing events.

The main reason we don't have a highway system like the Autobahn is because of government regulation. Why do you think there was a 55MPH speed-limit on highways that were designed for 80mph+?

[Mia]

They said it was to conserve gas. I remember when it went into effect. I think it's maintained as a source of income via speeding tickets. I do my part, I can't drive 55!

You too can have an autobahn! All you need is money and attorneys! :p

OK, seriously. We don't not have an autobahn because we can't drive. If we had one, we'd have to learn how to drive on it.

I don't know why that's even a focus, the point is supposed to be how great German citizens have it compared to the US, and I hardly think that driving really fast is one of the most important points.

As for letting others defend themselves - how does that fit in with our empire ideas? if we're not going to invade them, or we've already defeated them, we have to do something to maintain our influence, don't we?;)

Not to mention, spending money on 'defense' instead of something like education benefits the government of the US quite a bit, it's a double-dip.

They get to keep making war, covert and overt, and the citizens are too ignorant to know what they're doing is not really in our best interests.

[Shintao]

[quote=Mia]
The Military. It's pretty expensive to be the world's only superpower.


It's extremely expensive to support our empire. We need to end military welfare for Germany and Japan (among others), let them handle their own defense.[hr]

OK, ending all military welfare and bringing our troops home is an idea I like as well.

The US doesn't have an autobahn because, compared to Germany, American's can't drive worth a crap. in Germany, the cost to get a license is somewhere close to $1500 USD. plus, they are VERY strict on regulations, inspection of vehicles, and rules as to which lane you remain in while on the highway

Yeah, it's one-time lifetime fee. If you get a DUI, your license is gone, along with the car and a hefty fine.

Most of the primary Autobahn system was built between 1935 and 1939, making it 21 years older than the US interstate system. The actual first portion of the Autobahn was laid between 1913 and 1921 as a test-bed, and was used both for traffic and racing events.

Yes, the autobon isn't built like US Highways. A good solid concrete reinforced surface that won't have pot holes.

The main reason we don't have a highway system like the Autobahn is because of government regulation. Why do you think there was a 55MPH speed-limit on highways that were designed for 80mph+?


Pesky government regulations. Of course if all we get for our tax money is a repeat of the last fifty years of asphalt, I guess 55 is good enough. Of course, 200+ can get you to work if your running late, or enjoy a coffee before starting your work day, and traffic backed up or slow downs are nonexistent, because they have laws to get slow people & trucks over in the right hand lanes.

Do you think they have those ideas because they are more intelligent than us, or that that are concerned about german workers getting places on time? You know, care about the people? That maybe the idea of collective socialism gets good things done for people, that individual self-servers in America who remain unorganized fall apart at the seams when faced with a highway project to better their lives?[hr]
They said it was to conserve gas. I remember when it went into effect. I think it's maintained as a source of income via speeding tickets. I do my part, I can't drive 55!

You too can have an autobahn! All you need is money and attorneys! :p

OK, seriously. We don't not have an autobahn because we can't drive. If we had one, we'd have to learn how to drive on it.

Yes, we would, and be going places in a 1/4 of the time if you chose to.

I don't know why that's even a focus, the point is supposed to be how great German citizens have it compared to the US, and I hardly think that driving really fast is one of the most important points.

The point that German citizens are not stuck in rush hour traffic, spend less time on the road, have an automatic driving system to let the driver sit back and read his paper going to work - are all good things for the people & more important to those still slaving for a meager existence. Getting you to the hospital faster is another good reason. Getting the Oreo cookies on the shelf faster is another good reason - commerce is speed.


As for letting others defend themselves - how does that fit in with our empire ideas? if we're not going to invade them, or we've already defeated them, we have to do something to maintain our influence, don't we?;)Not to mention, spending money on 'defense' instead of something like education benefits the government of the US quite a bit, it's a double-dip.

They get to keep making war, covert and overt, and the citizens are too ignorant to know what they're doing is not really in our best interests.


Ending military operations outside of American soil, NOT american interests, is a good idea and would provide more money for the workers pocket book.

[Keith Hamburger]

in Germany, the cost to get a license is somewhere close to $1500 USD. plus, they are VERY strict on regulations, inspection of vehicles, and rules as to which lane you remain in while on the highway

I can verify for sure that none of Mark's vehicles would ever be allowed within miles of the Autobahn.

If he would every get the transmission put back into the Beemer, that would be a different story.

Driving some fairly high performance vehicles, myself, I would love to have some high speed highways. Even though the governor on the Mini is set at 135, I've never managed to get it above 100 due to traffic or fear of becoming a revenue source for the fuzz.

And, as Mark said, most of our intercity highways were designed for a minimum of 80mph, especially west of the Mississippi. With 300 miles of rural interstate between here and Albuquerque (ok, it actually goes through Pueblo and Trinidad, rather than around like all the other towns and cities between here and there), even with some mountain driving there's no reason I couldn't make the trip in 3 hours in the Mini. (That would require an average of around 100mph. Shouldn't really be that tough.)

Keith


Keith

[Mark L Hamburger]

in Germany, the cost to get a license is somewhere close to $1500 USD. plus, they are VERY strict on regulations, inspection of vehicles, and rules as to which lane you remain in while on the highway

I can verify for sure that none of Mark's vehicles would ever be allowed within miles of the Autobahn.




Hey now, my bike is in perfect shape....

[Keith Hamburger]

in Germany, the cost to get a license is somewhere close to $1500 USD. plus, they are VERY strict on regulations, inspection of vehicles, and rules as to which lane you remain in while on the highway

I can verify for sure that none of Mark's vehicles would ever be allowed within miles of the Autobahn.




Hey now, my bike is in perfect shape....


(Way off-topic) ... Ok. You're right. I forgot about the Katana. But, if you don't start making some payments it's going to be my bike. :madlaugh:

Keith