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lily
12-18-2007, 09:54 PM
If there is one thing you don't do, it's piss off a judge. (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22312848/)

Judge orders CIA interrogation video hearing



updated 1:09 p.m. ET, Tues., Dec. 18, 2007
WASHINGTON - A federal judge has ordered a hearing on whether the Bush
administration violated a court order by destroying CIA interrogation videos
of two al-Qaida suspects.

U.S. District Judge Henry H. Kennedy rejected calls from the Justice
Department to stay out of the matter. He ordered lawyers to appear before
him Friday morning.

In June 2005, Kennedy ordered the administration to safeguard "all evidence
and information regarding the torture, mistreatment, and abuse of detainees
now at the United States Naval Base at Guantanamo Bay."



Five months later, the CIA destroyed the interrogation videos. The
recordings involved suspected terrorists Abu Zubaydah and Abd al-Rahim
al-Nashiri. The Justice Department argued that the videos weren't covered by
the order because the two men were being held in secret CIA prisons
overseas, not at the Guantanamo Bay prison.

David Remes, a lawyer who represents Yemeni detainees at Guantanamo Bay,
asked for the court hearing. He said the government was obligated to keep
the tapes and he wants to be sure other evidence is not being destroyed.

"We want more than just the government's assurances. The government has
given these assurances in the past and they've proven unreliable," Remes
said. "The recent revelation of the CIA tape destruction indicates that the
government cannot be trusted to preserve evidence."

Kennedy did not say why he was ordering the hearing or what he planned to
ask. Even if the judge accepts the argument that government did not violate
his order, he still could raise questions about obstruction or spoliation, a
legal term for the destruction of evidence in "pending or reasonably
foreseeable litigation."

The Justice Department did not immediately comment. Its lawyers are working
with the CIA to investigate the destruction of the tapes and had urged
Kennedy to give them time to investigate.

Remes urged Kennedy not to comply.

"Plainly the government wants only foxes guarding this henhouse," Remes
wrote in court documents this week.




The Bush administration has taken a similar strategy in its dealings with
Congress on the issue. Last week, the Justice Department urged Congress to
hold off on questioning witnesses and demanding documents because that
evidence is part of the joint CIA-Justice Department investigation.

Attorney General Michael Mukasey also refused to give Congress details of
the government's investigation into the matter Friday, saying doing so could
raise questions about whether the inquiry was vulnerable to political
pressure.

Osborn F. Enready
12-18-2007, 09:57 PM
Glad to see this is happening.

lily
12-18-2007, 11:04 PM
I'm not getting my hopes up. Somehow I see in the future either another stall tactic or an order not to co-operate.

AnnEsthesia
12-18-2007, 11:24 PM
LOL. I bet Bush is pacing in his office all pissed off that the judge did not listen to him. Damned activist judges.

Fishingriver
12-18-2007, 11:31 PM
This at least demonstrates that there is a more serious problem with the tapes having been destroyed than just Democrats vs Bush Co. They destroyed evidence. If they were serious about it all being legal, the tapes could have served to vindicate them.

Personally, I think the Democrats should make pursuing the Bush administration with investigations a full time job. Between Bush veto and the Republicans sustaining all his vetoes, Bush is making every decision by himself anyway. They might as well make him accountable where they can.

Shintao
12-18-2007, 11:39 PM
This at least demonstrates that there is a more serious problem with the tapes having been destroyed than just Democrats vs Bush Co. They destroyed evidence. If they were serious about it all being legal, the tapes could have served to vindicate them.

Personally, I think the Democrats should make pursuing the Bush administration with investigations a full time job. Between Bush veto and the Republicans sustaining all his vetoes, Bush is making every decision by himself anyway. They might as well make him accountable where they can.


Well I love Bush and I don't wish him no harm. With that said, I hope they impeach & convict that SOB (Sorry ol' boozer), and his admin to the full extent of American & international laws.

http://tinyurl.com/23ue5n Note: Jesus spelled baclward is susej

Elrathin
12-18-2007, 11:56 PM
I'm not getting my hopes up. Somehow I see in the future either another stall tactic or an order not to co-operate.


Agree but the wording was necessary at least to let the people know what the administration is doing is wrong.

lily
12-18-2007, 11:59 PM
Oh........and I'd like to be the first one to say .....but Clinton got a blow job!........now that's out of the way!

lily
12-19-2007, 11:50 PM
Do they think if they don't talk about it, that it's going to go away? (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/12/19/AR2007121900699.html?hpid=moreheadlines)

Administration Calls Report on CIA Tapes 'Troubling'

By Howard Schneider
Washington Post Staff Writer
Wednesday, December 19, 2007; 10:53 AM

The Bush administration on Wednesday labeled as "pernicious and troubling" a
New York Times report that the White House was more deeply involved than
previously thought in discussions over whether to destroy CIA videotapes
depicting the harsh interrogation of two al-Qaeda operatives.

The paper reported today that at least four White House lawyers had been
involved in the discussions between 2003 and 2005: then-White House counsel
Alberto R. Gonzales; David S. Addington, then counsel and now chief of staff
to Vice President Cheney; John B. Bellinger III, a former National Security
Council senior lawyer; and Harriet E. Miers, who became White House counsel
after Gonzales.

Quoting unnamed sources, the paper said there was conflicting
information on
whether White House lawyers advocated destroying the tapes.

Miers's involvement in the discussions had been previously reported,
including in The Washington Post. But the Times said the role of the four
lawyers showed that White House involvement in what to do with the CIA video
"was more extensive than Bush administration officials have acknowledged."

In a statement released this morning, White House press secretary Dana
Perino did not deny that the lawyers had consulted over the fate of the
tapes. Rather, she said, the White House had consistently refused to comment
on the matter because it is under investigation. It was, therefore, wrong to
say that the administration had misled anyone about its role.

"The New York Times' inference that there is an effort to mislead in this
matter is pernicious and troubling," Perino said. "We have not publicly
commented on facts relating to this issue. . . . We have not described --
neither to highlight, nor to minimize -- the role or deliberations of White
House officials in this matter."


The CIA in November 2005 destroyed hundreds of hours of videotape showing
the interrogation in 2002 of two senior al-Qaeda suspects. The agency said
the tapes were destroyed to protect the identities of the interrogators.

The issue is now being investigated by Congress and the Justice Department.
A federal judge has also scheduled a hearing on whether the destruction of
the tapes violated an order to preserve evidence relevant to lawsuits filed
by prisoners at the military's facility in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba.

Fishingriver
12-20-2007, 04:06 AM
Unless they admit they were wrong or lying, they are innocent. If they refuse to comment, it means they are innocent. Bush can do anything he wants and no one can do anything about him. He obstructs investigations, destroys evidence, lies, denies, uses the investigation to avoid answering, refuses to answer under oath, refuses to answer with a record, manipulates the department of justice, uses national security as a shield from justice, uses executive power to overstep executive priveledge, and if that fails....take him to court if you can get past the crooked judges he appointed.
I am beginning to think that no one is ever going to do anything about it. They are waiting for "we the people" to get fed up enough to do something about it, and they are betting that we will go on waiting for someone else to.
Love em or hate em, Code Pink has it right. They go directly to the places where the media is already covering the players and get a few words out. Bush would have been sunk from the start without Big Media there to obfuscate for him. Big media portrays groups like code pink to be extremists, but unless you are echoing Big Medias accepted interpretation of events, you are an extremist to them anyway. Big media is really the villan in what has happened to democracy. People only take the coming storm as seriously as the weatherman portrays it to be. So there really needs to be 100,000 code pinks all pursuing the media at the same time to get a moment of truth out until people hear.

lily
12-20-2007, 04:13 AM
I don't know, Fish.......when you go against a direct order from a judge, you may have just crossed a line........now I know it's not going to get to anyone on top, as the article mentioned, but there are plenty of flunkies that will be willing to take the fall, for the pardon they'll get later.......like any of this is going to see the light of day anyway with the stall tactics.

Fishingriver
12-20-2007, 02:48 PM
I hope you are right and this ends up making a difference. But based on their record, I suspect the judge will end up looking like the bad guy in the end. While this drags on America continues on down the road as a nation who tortures people. Reading the articles surrounding this story, you would think the only people they ever waterboarded were al qeada leaders. Even Bush's crimes end up serving his interests with Big Media there to cover for him.