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lily
12-17-2007, 11:06 PM
The White House is not owned by Bush, it is owned by the public. (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22299136/)

White House logs are ruled public
Bush administration expected to appeal decision


updated 14 minutes ago
WASHINGTON - White House visitor logs are public documents, a federal judge
ruled Monday, rejecting a legal strategy that the Bush administration had
hoped would get around public records laws and let them keep their guests a
secret.

The ruling is a blow to the Bush administration, which has fought the
release of records showing visits by prominent religious conservatives.

Visitor records are created by the Secret Service, which is subject to the
Freedom of Information Act. But the Bush administration has ordered the data
turned over to the White House, where they are treated as presidential
records outside the scope of the public records law.



But U.S. District Judge Royce C. Lamberth ruled logs from the White House
and Vice President Dick Cheney's residence remain Secret Service documents
and are subject to public records requests.

In a lawsuit brought by Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in
Washington, a liberal watchdog group, Lamberth ordered the Secret Service to
turn over visitor logs regarding nine conservative religious commentators,
including James Dobson, Gary Bauer and Jerry Falwell.

"I think it's hugely significant," said Anne L. Weismann, the watchdog
group's chief counsel. "The judge saw their arguments for what they were."

White House spokesman Tony Fratto and Justice Department spokesman Charles
Miller said lawyers were reviewing the decision and they would have no
immediate response. The Bush administration is expected to appeal the
ruling.

In a separate case, CREW had sought an order declaring illegal a Bush
administration policy under which the Secret Service destroys its copies of
the logs once they are turned over to the White House.


In that second case involving White House visits by disgraced lobbyist Jack
Abramoff, Lamberth said he did not have the authority to issue such a
ruling.

Because the logs were declared Secret Service records, however, they cannot
be destroyed without approval from the National Archives.

The Bush administration had sought to have the case moved to another judge
by consolidating it with a similar lawsuit before U.S. District Judge
Rosemary Collyer, an appointee of President Bush.

Lamberth, who served in the Justice Department before President Reagan put
him on the federal bench, has roiled Democratic and Republican
administrations alike with rulings rejecting government secrecy claims.

bobbylien
12-18-2007, 12:28 AM
The Bush administration had sought to have the case moved to another judge
by consolidating it with a similar lawsuit before U.S. District Judge
Rosemary Collyer, an appointee of President Bush.
HAHA, what a fucking joke. Is it wishful thinking to hope that Cheney's logs will be released too some day?

December
12-18-2007, 12:40 AM
The White House is not owned by Bush, it is owned by the public. (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22299136/)


The White House is owned by the Fed actually.
And the Fed is owned by 12 European families.

Shintao
12-18-2007, 12:56 AM
If you think Clinton I presidency was fun, watch Clinton II with all the new private powers Bush has created for the presidental Administration with the willing help of the GOP.

Cheney isn't part of the Presidental Admin - according to him. So getting his records should be easy.

December
12-18-2007, 01:25 AM
So how can the public read his records?
And what will it change?

ECW
12-18-2007, 08:31 AM
The Bush administration had sought to have the case moved to another judge
by consolidating it with a similar lawsuit before U.S. District Judge
Rosemary Collyer, an appointee of President Bush.
HAHA, what a fucking joke. Is it wishful thinking to hope that Cheney's logs will be released too some day?


It may not be while he is in office but I hope the next president waits for the perfect time to release the proof of the perfidy that Cheney et al did on our behalf, a time where the neocons will scream the loudest when it all hits the light. If the Democrats play their cards right, they can sit on these scandals and release the records of wrongdoing for a decade to come and show what happens when republicans have uncontrolled access to the reigns of power: corruption at its finest.

lily
12-19-2007, 12:39 AM
It may not be while he is in office but I hope the next president waits for the perfect time to release the proof of the perfidy that Cheney et al did on our behalf, a time where the neocons will scream the loudest when it all hits the light. If the Democrats play their cards right, they can sit on these scandals and release the records of wrongdoing for a decade to come and show what happens when republicans have uncontrolled access to the reigns of power: corruption at its finest.


Ecw.......I'm rubbing my eyes and reading this twice. Are you advocating holding on to information that the public needs and has a right to know and using it for political fodder?

Shintao
12-19-2007, 12:57 AM
So how can the public read his records?

Hmm, a good question. A large percentage of Americans cannot read, so freeing the Americans records to the public won't help them at all. Maybe they can have someone else read the records to them? Or books on tape from the library.


And what will it change?


Well, if they don't learn how to read, I guess it won't change anything for them. I am not sure what causes people exposed to reading to continue to have these deficiences in reading. Language is everywhere you look, so it must be like seeing egyptian writing for them. Very scarey huh?

lily
12-19-2007, 01:06 AM
Now that the smart-assed answer is out of the way, let me try an answer you seriously, December

So how can the public read his records?

I'm not sure what you mean.......they can't read them if they are not made public and anything that doesn't have to do with national security, the public has a right to know.


[b]And what will it change?

It will give us (the public that wants to know) answers that we have been waiting to find out, without having congress go through countless investigations. You seem to forget that the President works for the American people and not the other way around.

Shintao
12-19-2007, 04:43 AM
Now that the smart-assed answer is out of the way, let me try an answer you seriously, December

Well Merry Christimas to you to Lily! :embarrased:


So how can the public read his records?

[b]And what will it change?

It will give us (the public that wants to know) answers that we have been waiting to find out, without having congress go through countless investigations. You seem to forget that the President works for the American people and not the other way around.


Exactly, as Lily says. We the people are the government & very few sections of government have by precedence, ever been denied the Amerian people. You find out more by researching what classified, top secret documents are. Only unAmerican thinking people would deny others the rightful government they own. It will change the government back into the hands of the rightful owners - we the people.

lily
12-19-2007, 04:51 AM
Well Merry Christimas to you to Lily! :embarrased:

Sorry. :embarrased:

ViolaLee
12-19-2007, 06:08 AM
I think december meant, where do we go to find the records so we can read them?

Now that the FCC has allowed all the media to be bought up by 2 or 3 mega corporations, maybe we'll never really find out about it anyway...

ECW
12-19-2007, 07:40 AM
It may not be while he is in office but I hope the next president waits for the perfect time to release the proof of the perfidy that Cheney et al did on our behalf, a time where the neocons will scream the loudest when it all hits the light. If the Democrats play their cards right, they can sit on these scandals and release the records of wrongdoing for a decade to come and show what happens when republicans have uncontrolled access to the reigns of power: corruption at its finest.


Ecw.......I'm rubbing my eyes and reading this twice. Are you advocating holding on to information that the public needs and has a right to know and using it for political fodder?


Naw, I wouldn't stoop to such Rovian tactics, Lil.

What I am saying is that it will take some time to go through and do a complete and thorough search of all the secret crap that the Bushies have perpetrated during their eight years in office. No sense in dumping all of the information on the public in one fell swoop. Release some of it each month until all of it comes to the light of day and if it hurts the GOP right around, say, election time 2010, oh, well. That's how the good old boy spy network crumbles! I seem to remember how Homeland Security had some action with color coded BS indicating hightened security levels right around election time a few times there so there is precedent for waiting until just the right time to let some of this information into the public eye.