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lily
12-15-2007, 01:21 AM
I'd say it's time to stop playing games.........but it seems that's how Wasnington works! (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/12/13/AR2007121301457.html?hpid=opinionsbox1)

Plan B For Pelosi And Reid

By E. J. Dionne Jr.
Friday, December 14, 2007; Page A39

Congressional Democrats need a Plan B.

Republicans chortle as they block Democratic initiatives -- and accuse the
majority of being unable to govern. Rank-and-filers are furious that their
leaders can't end the Iraq war. President Bush sits back and vetoes at will.


Worse, Democrats are starting to blame each other, with those in the House
wondering why their Senate colleagues don't force Republicans to engage in
grueling, old-fashioned filibusters. Instead, the GOP kills bills by coming
up with just 41 votes. Senators defend themselves by saying that their House
colleagues don't understand how the august "upper" chamber works these days.

If Bush's strategy is to drag Congress down to his low level of public
esteem, he is succeeding brilliantly. A Post-ABC News poll released this
week found that only 33 percent of Americans approved of Bush's handling of
his job -- and just 32 percent felt positively about Congress's performance.
The only comfort for Democrats: The public dislikes Republicans in Congress
(32 percent approval) even more than it dislikes congressional Democrats (40
percent approval).

The Democrats' core problem is that they have been unable to place blame for
gridlock where it largely belongs, on the Republican minority and the
president.

In an ideal world, Democrats would pass a lot of legislation that Bush would
either have to sign or veto. The president would have to take responsibility
for his choices. The House has passed many bills, but the Republican
minority has enormous power in the Senate to keep the legislation from
getting to the president's desk. This creates the impression that action is
being stalled through some vague and nefarious congressional "process."


Not only can a minority block action in the Senate, but the Democrats'
nominal one-vote majority is frequently not a majority at all. A few
maverick Democrats often defect, and the party runs short-handed when Sens.
Joe Biden, Hillary Clinton, Chris Dodd and Barack Obama are off running for
president.

And Bush is learning that even when bills reach his desk, he can veto them
with near impunity. On Wednesday, Bush issued his second veto of a bill to
extend coverage under the State Children's Health Insurance Program to 10
million kids. Democrats have the high ground on the issue and more than
two-thirds support in the Senate, but the bill lacks a veto-proof House
majority.

After Bush vetoed the first version of the SCHIP bill, Democrats changed it
slightly to make it more attractive to Republicans. And the new version
passed both houses, too. When Bush vetoed the SCHIP measure again, almost
nobody paid attention. The Post ran a three-paragraph story on the corner of
Page A18; the New York Times ran a longer story -- on Page A29.

Democrats can't even get credit for doing the right thing. If Congress and
Bush don't act, the alternative minimum tax -- originally designed to affect
only Americans with very high incomes -- will raise taxes on about 20
million middle- and upper-middle-class people for whom it was never
intended.

Democrats want to protect those taxpayers but also to keep their
pay-as-you-go promise to offset new spending or tax cuts with tax increases
or program cuts elsewhere. They would finance AMT relief with $50 billion in
new taxes on the very wealthiest Americans or corporations. The Republicans
say no, just pass the AMT fix.

Here's a guarantee: If the Democrats fail to pass AMT relief, they will be
blamed for raising taxes on the middle class. If they pass it without the
tax increase, deficit hawks will accuse them of selling out.

What's the alternative to internecine Democratic finger-pointing of the sort
that made the front page of yesterday's Post? The party's congressional
leaders need to do whatever they have to do to put this year behind them.
Then they need to stop whining. House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and Senate
Majority Leader Harry Reid should put aside any ill feelings and use the
Christmas break to come up with a joint program for 2008.

They could start with the best ideas from their presidential candidates in
areas such as health care, education, cures for the ailing economy and
poverty reduction. Agree to bring the same bills to a vote in both houses.
Try one more time to change the direction of Iraq policy. If Bush and the
Republicans block their efforts, bring all these issues into the campaign.
Let the voters break the gridlock.

If Democrats don't make the 2008 election about the Do-Nothing Republicans,
the GOP has its own ideas about whom to hold responsible for Washington's
paralysis. And if House and Senate Democrats waste their time attacking each
other, they will deserve any blame they get next fall.

Drocket
12-15-2007, 05:48 AM
The Democrats are thoroughly pissing me off, but not as much as this article does.

They could start with the best ideas from their presidential candidates in
areas such as health care, education, cures for the ailing economy and
poverty reduction. Agree to bring the same bills to a vote in both houses.

Yes, why DON'T the Democrats do that? Oh wait, that's right...

And Bush is learning that even when bills reach his desk, he can veto them
with near impunity. On Wednesday, Bush issued his second veto of a bill to
extend coverage under the State Children's Health Insurance Program to 10
million kids. Democrats have the high ground on the issue and more than
two-thirds support in the Senate, but the bill lacks a veto-proof House
majority.

After Bush vetoed the first version of the SCHIP bill, Democrats changed it
slightly to make it more attractive to Republicans. And the new version
passed both houses, too. When Bush vetoed the SCHIP measure again, almost
nobody paid attention. The Post ran a three-paragraph story on the corner of
Page A18;

That's what they're already #&#^ DOING! And then your @*$# newspaper decides to bury the story while simultaneously criticizing the Democrats for not doing what they're already doing.

Yes, E. J. Dionne Jr., the Democrats are pretty much in a lose-lose situation here, and you and your "journalistic colleagues" (quotes *very* much deliberate) are the ones helping to put them there.

preservanation
12-15-2007, 01:19 PM
Pesosi/Reid have the lowest approval rating in the history of Congress. 20% or so. (Bush is now in the high 30s)

The Dems have put themselves in a box, and instead of the press trying to get them out of that box, they have joined them there.
Here's a guarantee: If the Democrats fail to pass AMT relief, they will be
blamed for raising taxes on the middle class. If they pass it without the
tax increase, deficit hawks will accuse them of selling out.
One big problem is that Reid can't ADD. He needs 60 votes. As long as the GOP holds tight all of his promises of passing legislation are lies.

lily
12-15-2007, 05:28 PM
One big problem is that Reid can't ADD. He needs 60 votes. As long as the GOP holds tight all of his promises of passing legislation are lies.


Yes, but sooner or later, don't you run the risk of people realizing that the Republicans are obstructionist and this ending up turning on them?

Drocket
12-15-2007, 07:35 PM
Yes, but sooner or later, don't you run the risk of people realizing that the Republicans are obstructionist and this ending up turning on them?

Not so long as the Democratic leadership (and I'm mostly looking at Reid here) continues to go out of their way to make themselves look like failures. Forcing the Republicans to actually filibuster some popular bills would go a long, long, LONG way to increasing the Democrats popularity while undermining the Republicans. Instead, they've caved on everything for the Republicans. Worse than that, they've actually managed to force the DEMOCRATS into a filibuster (The FISA bill. Dodd put a hold on it on committee, which 99.999999% of the time stalls it. Reid decided to ignore the hold, which is nothing less than an outright backstab to his own party. Meanwhile, he's quite politely honoring any and all holds by Republicans.)

preservanation
12-16-2007, 02:38 AM
One big problem is that Reid can't ADD. He needs 60 votes. As long as the GOP holds tight all of his promises of passing legislation are lies.


Yes, but sooner or later, don't you run the risk of people realizing that the Republicans are obstructionist and this ending up turning on them?
No, the Dems run the risk of of the people finding out that their insane ideas will bring down what we have accomplished over these many years and will bring down this one great nation.

I have a gut feeling that the the libs will be swilling a sour soup

AnnEsthesia
12-16-2007, 02:55 AM
Pesosi/Reid have the lowest approval rating in the history of Congress. 20% or so. (Bush is now in the high 30s)



How about a source, preserva? I have not seen any approval ratings in the high 30's for Bush. Try low 30's and high 20's.

Elrathin
12-16-2007, 04:31 AM
LOL I can't believe some conservatives are celebrating that Bush is in the 30s for approval rating, that's sad.

preservanation
12-16-2007, 01:00 PM
Pesosi/Reid have the lowest approval rating in the history of Congress. 20% or so. (Bush is now in the high 30s)



How about a source, preserva? I have not seen any approval ratings in the high 30's for Bush. Try low 30's and high 20's.

Wrong, you have to get out more.

Gallup 12/6-9/07 37
.

AP-Ipsos 12/3-5/07 36
.

L.A. Times/Bloomberg 11/30 - 12/3/07 33
.

FOX/Opinion Dynamics RV 11/13-14/07 36
.

Quinnipiac RV 10/23-29/07 35
.

FOX/Opinion Dynamics RV 10/23-24/07 35
.

L.A. Times/Bloomberg RV 10/19-22/07 35
.

CNN/Opinion Research 10/12-14/07 36
.

FOX/Opinion Dynamics RV 10/9-10/07 35
.

NPR LV 10/4, 38%[hr]The real point isn't the numbers, but the trend.
Bush is trending up while the obstructionist, do-nothing democrat congress is trending down, down, down, down...
*flush*