Cure is Worse Than the Disease

[ClayBarham]

Many well meaning people want to change America to a more community-centered better designed and managed nation than it is now or was when it began. We must be certain, however, that the changes made are not the cure that is worse than the disease. The Declaration of Independence, the Gettysburg Address, and the behaviors of free, faith-based men and women defined America from its beginnings. Are these the kinds of things to change for the 21st century?

Jefferson described principles of government in the Declaration, followed by how it had been working under the King and Parliament. Jefferson and the other founders believed it was self-evident that our Creator created us equal and that He gave us our rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, not government. Further, that good government only secures these rights and governs by the consent of the governed. He defined bad government as destructive of these ends and that it should be abolished. He went on to cite examples of what best describes the conduct and meddling of bad government. Americans rose to the occasion, abolished the rule of Britain over America, then founded a new nation based on principles of small government and individual freedom. Our nation grew beyond all previous experiences and achieved what none other before could even have dreamed of achieving.

In 1863, during a great civil war in America, Abraham Lincoln reaffirmed our nation’s dedication to what our founders had established as America. He reminded Americans that, in 1776, “Our fathers brought forth on this continent, a new nation, conceived in liberty, and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal.” He went on to conclude his short, 272 word speech with these words; “…that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom, and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth.” For him, it was a time for all of us to reaffirm our dedication to the principles of American freedom, growth and prosperity.

Political speeches today more likely promise great rewards and benefits rising from the center of a great social managing government, built upon the age-old principles of all the monarchies and dictatorships of history. We must abandon the ideals of individual freedom and the prosperity it creates in favor a well-managed social system promising an equality of outcome for all, at the price of liberty. We are told the ideas of Jefferson, the Founders and Abraham Lincoln no longer apply to our modern world, as the promises of community interests first will give us more security and comfort. We have only to hand the keys to our future to those in the Democrat Party who claim to know better than we, ourselves, how to live our own lives. Do we want this cure? Could it be worse?

[BillyPilgrim]

I can only concur.

[Elrathin]

We have only to hand the keys to our future to those in the Democrat Party who claim to know better than we, ourselves, how to live our own lives. Do we want this cure? Could it be worse?


sorry but we have seen the direction the Republicans have taken this country, and it is not the right direction. It is most DEFINITELY time for a change. Stay the course is not the answer. People are sick and tired of what this administration have done and in 08 they will vote with that in mind. Be prepared for a Dem President.

[ClayBarham]

Then, again, I quote John Dryden, "Withdraw thy action and depart in peace, for the cure is worse than the disease." It won't take the whole four years for people to find this out and regret making the choice to poop on our Founding principles and punish those who work and play by the rules.

[Elrathin]

the only one pooping on what the founding father wants are those on the right that believe in the Patriot Act and sending people to other countries to be tortured.

[BillyPilgrim]

"the only one pooping on what the founding father wants are those on the right that believe in the Patriot Act and sending people to other countries to be tortured."

Care to base that on some facts?

[Phyxius]

We are told the ideas of Jefferson, the Founders and Abraham Lincoln no longer apply to our modern world...

And just exactly who has told us that, Clay? Quotes please... :grrrr:

[preservanation]

the only one pooping on what the founding father wants are those on the right that believe in the Patriot Act and sending people to other countries to be tortured.
I agree.
We are involved in an illegal war.
I think Bush actually enjoys sending soldiers to their death for no reason.
Why else would he do it?
We are less safe because of him and his policies have actually increased the ranks of people who hate and want to kill us.

[Phyxius]

the only one pooping on what the founding father wants are those on the right that believe in the Patriot Act and sending people to other countries to be tortured.
I agree.
We are involved in an illegal war.
I think Bush actually enjoys sending soldiers to their death for no reason.
Why else would he do it?
We are less safe because of him and his policies have actually increased the ranks of people who hate and want to kill us.


Finally - a breakthrough. :madlaugh:

Next thing you know, he'll be advocating gay marriage and gun control... :ecstatic:

[Scorpion]

I think Bush actually enjoys sending soldiers to their death for no reason.
Why else would he do it?



Do you actually believe that Bush enjoys our soldiers being killed? Seriously, do you believe that?

[Phyxius]

I think Bush actually enjoys sending soldiers to their death for no reason.
Why else would he do it?



Do you actually believe that Bush enjoys our soldiers being killed? Seriously, do you believe that?



Good God, man - even I could tell he was being sarcastic... http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a176/Hasatude5150/beatinoff.gif

[Scorpion]

[quote=preservanation]

I think Bush actually enjoys sending soldiers to their death for no reason.
Why else would he do it?



Do you actually believe that Bush enjoys our soldiers being killed? Seriously, do you believe that?


Taken in it's entirety, the post seems pretty serious. I think that your trying to make a watery effort to spin a very troubling statement into what you hope others will buy as sarcasm in an effort to cover for the author's cavalier opinion. Sorry, but it's not working.

I'd like the author to explain his statement.


Good God, man - even I could tell he was being sarcastic... http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a176/Hasatude5150/beatinoff.gif
[/quote

I s]

[Phyxius]

[quote=preservanation]

I think Bush actually enjoys sending soldiers to their death for no reason.
Why else would he do it?



Do you actually believe that Bush enjoys our soldiers being killed? Seriously, do you believe that?


Taken in it's entirety, the post seems pretty serious. I think that your trying to make a watery effort to spin a very troubling statement into what you hope others will buy as sarcasm in an effort to cover for the author's cavalier opinion. Sorry, but it's not working.

I'd like the author to explain his statement.


Good God, man - even I could tell he was being sarcastic... http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a176/Hasatude5150/beatinoff.gif
[/quote

I s]



Bourne, preservanation makes you look positively Marxist. Anyone who has read his posts over time knows it was sarcastic. Quit being so defensive and literal - it makes you (and your position) look even weaker than you already do... http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a176/Hasatude5150/coolshades.gif

[Scorpion]

[quote=preservanation]

I think Bush actually enjoys sending soldiers to their death for no reason.
Why else would he do it?



Do you actually believe that Bush enjoys our soldiers being killed? Seriously, do you believe that?


Taken in it's entirety, the post seems pretty serious. I think that your trying to make a watery effort to spin a very troubling statement into what you hope others will buy as sarcasm in an effort to cover for the author's cavalier opinion. Sorry, but it's not working.

I'd like the author to explain his statement.


Good God, man - even I could tell he was being sarcastic... http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a176/Hasatude5150/beatinoff.gif
[/quote

I s]



Bourne, preservanation makes you look positively Marxist. Anyone who has read his posts over time knows it was sarcastic. Quit being so defensive and literal - it makes you (and your position) look even weaker than you already do... http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a176/Hasatude5150/coolshades.gif


I'm not a Marxist but the dig is entirely expected from you.

I'm not buying your interpretation of someone elses very troubling post. Again, I'd like the author to explain him or herself instead of depending on your attempt at minimizing what was said.

[Phyxius]

I'm not a Marxist but the dig is entirely expected from you.

I'm not buying your interpretation of someone elses very troubling post. Again, I'd like the author to explain him or herself instead of depending on your attempt at minimizing what was said.



Hey, be as literal as you want. If you can't see he's being sarcastic, you are either too foolish to bother debating, or simply looking for a fight. Neither is worth my time... http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a176/Hasatude5150/action-smiley-054.gif


http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a176/Hasatude5150/Buttons/b0657.gif

[ClayBarham]

Strange how often that sarcasm pops up. When you consider Bush snuck down to New Orleans in his snorkel-suit to blow up the levies, isn't it possible that he wrings his hands in delight send men to die for Bush? That's what I hear from many on the left and it happens so often one has to believe they are actually shallow enough to believe what you call sarcasm.

[Scorpion]

I'm not a Marxist but the dig is entirely expected from you.

I'm not buying your interpretation of someone elses very troubling post. Again, I'd like the author to explain him or herself instead of depending on your attempt at minimizing what was said.



Hey, be as literal as you want. If you can't see he's being sarcastic, you are either too foolish to bother debating, or simply looking for a fight. Neither is worth my time... http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a176/Hasatude5150/action-smiley-054.gif


http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a176/Hasatude5150/Buttons/b0657.gif


You can dismiss his reark as sarcasm but I'm not so quick to excuse an obviously very troubling remark. I believe that he is quite serious since his post offers no indication of a sarcastic intent.

Regardless, thanks for finally minding your own business by leaving the discussion.

[Phyxius]

I'm not a Marxist but the dig is entirely expected from you.

I'm not buying your interpretation of someone elses very troubling post. Again, I'd like the author to explain him or herself instead of depending on your attempt at minimizing what was said.



Hey, be as literal as you want. If you can't see he's being sarcastic, you are either too foolish to bother debating, or simply looking for a fight. Neither is worth my time... http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a176/Hasatude5150/action-smiley-054.gif


http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a176/Hasatude5150/Buttons/b0657.gif


You can dismiss his reark as sarcasm but I'm not so quick to excuse an obviously very troubling remark. I believe that he is quite serious since his post offers no indication of a sarcastic intent.

Regardless, thanks for finally minding your own business by leaving the discussion.


Show of hands, folks. Who thinks Bourne has jumped the shark from anal-retentive straight to paranoid?

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a176/Hasatude5150/pickme.gif

[Deadshot]

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a176/Hasatude5150/pickme.gif

[AnnEsthesia]

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a176/Hasatude5150/pickme.gif

[ClayBarham]

Let's see, fear leads to anger,anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering, and suffering leads to liberalism. How's that?

[preservanation]

Alvy Singer: [addressing the camera] There's an old joke - um... two elderly women are at a Catskill mountain resort, and one of 'em says, "Boy, the food at this place is really terrible." The other one says, "Yeah, I know; and such small portions." Well, that's essentially how I feel about life - full of loneliness, and misery, and suffering, and unhappiness, and it's all over much too quickly.
Allison: I'm in the midst of doing my thesis.
Alvy Singer: On what?
Allison: Political commitment in twentieth century literature.
Alvy Singer: You, you, you're like New York, Jewish, left-wing, liberal, intellectual, Central Park West, Brandeis University, the socialist summer camps and the, the father with the Ben Shahn drawings, right, and the really, y'know, strike-oriented kind of, red diaper, stop me before I make a complete imbecile of myself.
Allison: No, that was wonderful. I love being reduced to a cultural stereotype.
Alvy Singer: Right, I'm a bigot, I know, but for the left.From Woddy Allen's Annie Hall

[piratemonkey]

Let's see, fear leads to anger,anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering, and suffering leads to liberalism. How's that?


Interesting theory.

Since Conservatives are the primary propagators of fear talk, you're saying that Conservatives create Liberals.

Interesting...

[Osborn F. Enready]

Both major parties have been taking us in the same direction, for 157 years, since they split from the SAME party.

They have held on to that bi-partisan monopoly on power and political appointments by rigging the rules to keep out third parties.

Check out the facts about the Commission on Presidential Debates. COPD is an appropriate acronym, since it is choking the independent voice, and choices of the people.

What I believe we need is someone like Ron Paul, who takes to task unconstitutional laws as a major part of the problem, and someone who is willing to follow the Constitution, and respect the BOR.

[ClayBarham]

I like what Ron Paul says. Some of his writings appear along with mine on www.populistamerica.com. What he suggests as our end result is what I believe, but we have been so long off that reservation I am as much concerned about who and how we are to set a course to return, that I am not sure Paul is the one who can do it. Then again, I'm not sure anyone on the GOP side even wants to take that journey and go back to where we should be. I am certain the Democrats want to take us even further from where we should be, to an internationalist socialism (what was once called communism). That is the mystery for me, one that I must solve before the state primary.

[Shintao]

I'm not a Marxist but the dig is entirely expected from you.

I'm not buying your interpretation of someone elses very troubling post. Again, I'd like the author to explain him or herself instead of depending on your attempt at minimizing what was said.


Ah, yes! Not Marxist, rather jack boot fascist! One might wonder if Bourne is with a WH hit squad, digging out the McCarthy list and checking it twice.

I think he meant it Bourne!! :ecstatic: I agree!!! :thumbsup: :nana:

He is the butcher of Texas, and nothing short of the leather faced chain saw masacre. The question was asked about the continued deaths in Iraq Bourne. Did you miss it? He asked, Why else would Bush murder soldiers day after day? Why Bourne?? Why does he send more to die? Why does he cover up their deaths and fly them in at midnight and conceal the dead from America? Don't go postal Bourne, why is he having them killed? Why does he laugh in a dying women's face? Why did he refuse to grant any Texas pardons Bourne? Why isn't Ben laden important anymore? What is the rush to murder more us troops in Iran? :fight: After a while you forget the purpose.......[hr]
Let's see, fear leads to anger,anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering, and suffering leads to liberalism. How's that?


Nice try Clay. You just explained why Bush lied us into Iraq. And why sufferring of American people does indeed lead the masses to Democrat Liberalism. Hows that Clay?? :ecstatic::madlaugh:

[Osborn F. Enready]

Clay, check this site out...

http://www.mega.nu:8080/ampp/

One of the most informative and well rounded compilations I have seen.

[ClayBarham]

I will read it. Looks interesting. Right now I have three books going that I should stick with, but will get to it next. Thanks