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Alonzo
07-28-2006, 10:15 PM
(CBS News) Israel has made so little progress in destroying Hezbollah that some U.S. intelligence analysts now say the attempt to create a buffer zone in southern Lebanon has bogged down, reports CBS News national security correspondent David Martin.

"It doesn't appear they've been able to claim the territory they want to claim," one intelligence official told Martin. And despite a number of massive air strikes on suspected command bunkers, Israel has been unable to locate and eliminate Hezbollah's leadership: Not only does Sheik Hassan Nasrallah keep showing up on television, but Hezbollah fighters still appear to be following the orders of senior commanders.

Pentagon officials say both U.S. and Israeli intelligence have underestimated the strength, capabilities and resilience of Hezbollah, beginning with the missile attack on an Israeli warship in the opening days of the war. "They never saw it coming," one official said, and were lucky not to have lost the ship entirely.

According to an analysis by U.S. intelligence, the missile homed in on the ship from the rear and hit just as the stern was in the trough of a wave, exploding above deck. Had the stern been a few feet higher, the missile would have struck the hull and detonated below decks, possibly sinking the ship.

Israel's most clear-cut success so far has been in destroying the bridges that link Hezbollah to its sources of re-supply in Syria. But at the current rate of 50 to 100 rockets a day, Hezbollah still has enough to keep raining salvos on northern Israel for months to come, Martin reports.

Meanwhile, President Bush said Friday that he and British Prime Minister Tony Blair agree that a multinational force must be dispatched quickly to the Mideast fighting, and said they will work for a U.N. resolution to support it.

In an East Room news conference, Mr. Bush said any resolution should provide "a framework for the cessation of hostilities on an urgent basis and mandating the multinational force."

Other countries, including France and the European Union, are calling for an immediate cease-fire without conditions.

"The temptation is to say it's too tough, let's try to solve it quickly with something that won't last. Let's just get it off the TV screens, but that won't solve the problem," President Bush said.

The president, after Oval Office meetings with Blair, also announced he is sending Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice back to the region this weekend to resume her onsite diplomacy.

"This is a moment of intense conflict in the Middle East," the president said, Blair at his side. "Yet our aim is to turn it into a moment of opportunity and a chance for broader change in the region."

The appearance allowed both men the chance to address the loss of public support of critically important moderate Arab leaders, reports CBS News chief White House correspondent Jim Axelrod.

"Of course there's a sense of shock and frustration and anger at what is happening, and grief at the loss of innocent lives. But it is not a reason for walking away," Blair said at the conference.

But after two weeks plus of images like these, Mr. Bush and Blair have been running the risk of isolating not Hezbollah, but themselves, Axelrod reports.

On Friday, Hezbollah launched a new kind of rocket that made its deepest strike into Israel yet, while Israeli warplanes and artillery blasted apartment buildings and roads gunning for guerrillas.

Lebanese officials said about 12 civilians died in the day's fighting; Israel said it killed 26 militants, raising to about 230 the total number killed in the campaign.

Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice is scheduled to head back to the Middle East this weekend to make a second attempt to resolve the crisis, but diplomatic efforts were solidifying into two sharply divided camps. Most agree on the idea of bringing international forces into the south to end Hezbollah's decade-long free rein here — but still unresolved is how and when.

Some Israelis are concerned there may be an attempt by Rice to force Israel to stop the military offensive before Israel feel it's ready, reports CBS News correspondent Dan Raviv. The Israeli military wants at least another week to keep damaging Hezbollah. The Israelis are concerned Hezbollah will look like a winner, because it managed to hit the Jewish state with over a thousand missiles and is fighting hard against Israel's elite troops.

The deadlock allowed the offensive to persist with a new dimension of destruction emerging — the environment.

Beaches in Beirut were black with oil spilled from a power station that was blasted by Israel two weeks ago and was still burning. In the south, rescue workers dug through the rubble of bombed houses, looking for bodies. Israel deployed a Patriot interceptor missile battery north of Tel Aviv, believing the area could be in range of Hezbollah's barrages.

At least 445 people have been killed in Lebanon in the fighting, most of them civilians, according to a Health Ministry count Friday based on bodies taken to hospitals. But Lebanon's health minister estimated Thursday that as many as Lebanese 600 civilians have been killed, with other victims buried in rubble.

On the Israeli side, 33 soldiers have died in fighting, and Hezbollah rocket attacks on northern Israel have killed 19 civilians, the Israeli army said.


http://cbs3.com/topstories/topstories_story_209204921.html

BoogyMan
07-30-2006, 05:08 PM
Cheer on the terrorists Alonzo, cheer em on.

PittsburghAfterDark
07-30-2006, 06:21 PM
Go go terrorists! Kill those dirty Joos! Allah protects you!


Translation.

Alonzo
07-30-2006, 08:18 PM
Kill those dirty Joos!

See, unlike you, I can distinguish between a religion and certain individuals.

Cheer on the terrorists Alonzo, cheer em on.

Yes, it's so much better when you ignore anything you don't like. Hey, did you see the news today? 5.9 million people in Baghdad survived! Everything's great, there's no problems.

PittsburghAfterDark
07-30-2006, 08:47 PM
'zo, you're half a step away from writing checks to Hezbollah.

BoogyMan
07-30-2006, 09:17 PM
PAD, how do you know he hasn't?

Alonzo
07-30-2006, 11:12 PM
You want my opinion on this? They both should lose. Israel is too powerful to be given free range. The more damage you can inflict the more responsibility you have. If they are defeated then they will think twice before taking a similar action again (though, the first time didn't get that message through).

Hezbollah needs to act in the interests of the Lebanese. They can't go around attacking countries and taking actions that could result in their country being destroyed. They need to be shown that such actions aren't be beneficial to them.

PittsburghAfterDark
07-30-2006, 11:44 PM
And with that 'zo's anti-Semitism is brought to fruition for all to see.

Israel is too powerful.

It's unfair that 6.3 million Jews living in a desert state, no bigger than New Jersey, should be stronger than 600 million surrounding Muslims.

You ever wonder why it is Israel is powerful and the rest of the region sucks the hind tit of humanity?

Maybe you should give that some thought instead of hating the Jewish state just because they're "too powerful".

You are such the typical liberal and you don't even realize it.Â*Â*You think you're enlightened and want balance, equilibrium and harmony in the world.Â*Â*Well wake up, there is none.

In life, history, nations and religions there are winners and losers.Â*Â*Your self-agrandizing feel goodism does not work in the world.

lily
07-30-2006, 11:44 PM
I'm with you Alonzo.....both sides are idjits.......but I guess if you don't think "like you're told", then you get branded as a terrorist lover. Better I guess, to keep your head burried in the sand?

Alonzo
07-30-2006, 11:46 PM
So, PAD, if I don't think Israel is right then I'm an anti-semite?

PittsburghAfterDark
07-30-2006, 11:57 PM
No zo.

You said you want to see Israel defeated. You want to see them lose.

It's the Jewish state, ya know? If Israel is defeated they are a people without a country again. They have no self-determination and are scattered about again to the winds to be permanently persecuted as a minority.

Yes, unquestionably that makes you an anti-semite.

No ifs, ands or buts about it.

Alonzo
07-31-2006, 12:02 AM
PAD, if defeat meant destroyed then this part of my response doesn't make much sense:

If they are defeated then they will think twice before taking a similar action again

If they're destroyed then there won't be even the possibility of a similar action.

I've never called for Israel's destruction. I've called for a one state solution, which entails one state between Israel and Palestine and equal rights for all of its inhabitants. That's no more of a destruction of Israel than the end of apartheid was the destruction of South Africa. Fundamental change yes, but not destruction.

PittsburghAfterDark
07-31-2006, 12:05 AM
Calling for them to lose in this instance results in their destruction.

You really think this whole thing is about Hezbollah lobbing rockets?

If you do, you're less intelligent than I think.

CockySOB
07-31-2006, 12:06 AM
You want my opinion on this? They both should lose. Israel is too powerful to be given free range. The more damage you can inflict the more responsibility you have. If they are defeated then they will think twice before taking a similar action again (though, the first time didn't get that message through).
Please cite me an instance where Israel STARTED a conflict? To the best of my knowledge, Israel has continued to respond TO attacks, rather than initiating conflict. But I admit, I might have overlooked something. If so, please show me.
Hezbollah needs to act in the interests of the Lebanese. They can't go around attacking countries and taking actions that could result in their country being destroyed. They need to be shown that such actions aren't be beneficial to them.
And reasoning with rabid dogs gets a person... where exactly? But please, feel free to try to reason with them if you feel it has a chance in hell of working. Unfortunately, Hizb'Allah has flat-out said that their goal is the eradication of the state of Israel, and their allies reiterate that sentiment almost daily.

It comes down to this - Israel is willing to live in peace (if not friendship) with its neighbors, BUT the Islamic extremists are not willing to allow that to happen.

Alonzo
07-31-2006, 12:06 AM
They lost in lebanon before PAD, they're still standing last I checked.

Alonzo
07-31-2006, 12:34 AM
Please cite me an instance where Israel STARTED a conflict? To the best of my knowledge, Israel has continued to respond TO attacks, rather than initiating conflict. But I admit, I might have overlooked something. If so, please show me.

It's debatable. The six day war was, from their understanding, a pre-emptive strike to an impending strike on them. The u.s. opposed the attack, insisting on diplomacy and demanding them not to attack. Basically, Israel had was engaging in military exchanges with Syria (not sure who started it, though it was over the disputed Golan Heights), Egypt escalated the risk by closing the straights of Tiran to Israeli ships. Tensions continued to increase (along with alliances between arab nations), resulting in Arab nations becoming fearful of an attack and mobilizing their troops, Israel had the same fear and attacked, despite u.s. opposition. Both sides were at fault and, while the war was initiated by Israel, it was not the same as attacking without provocation. I'd say the same if the other side attacked. Essentially, each side misinterpreted the other.

But, without question, hey have escalated a minor conflict into a major one (this is the most recent example). They have caused the resumption of attacks (when militants have engaged in ceasefires israel has often ignored them, often resulting in the resumption of attacks). They have also engaged in collective punishment of civilians in attempts to prevent actions they don't want. And resistance to an occupation is not really an initiating of tensions, especially when tensions were there from the beginning of any countries occupation of palestine. The palestinians weren't the ones responsible for the six day war, yet they paid the highest price. In that sense neither Israel of the Palestinians initiated truly conflict.

Israel's desire to occupy Palestinian land is a major issue. They also behave like a nation that does not act responsibly considering the destructive force they have. Essentially, a person must be much more careful when they're holding a magnum than when they're holding a bb gun. Israel does not do that though.

And reasoning with rabid dogs gets a person... where exactly? But please, feel free to try to reason with them if you feel it has a chance in hell of working. Unfortunately, Hizb'Allah has flat-out said that their goal is the eradication of the state of Israel, and their allies reiterate that sentiment almost daily.

It comes down to this - Israel is willing to live in peace (if not friendship) with its neighbors, BUT the Islamic extremists are not willing to allow that to happen.

Israel has been unwilling to live in peace with palestinians, as that entails giving up all the territory occupied after the six day war. Their willingness is essentially "take what we want to give you and we won't bother you". Thought that's after years of expanding settlements in those territories, they just realized that it's now harmful to them to do that.

Israel has a tendency to reinforce the arguments of extremists. Instead of taking actions to starve them of support, their answer is to bomb, which increases their legitimacy. They're fighting groups that can continue to fight as long as there are guns around. That's why a popular guerilla force is so hard to defeat militarily. Unless they lose public support they will continue to fight as long as people are left. It's a very different thing to fight a traditional government and a guerilla force.

PittsburghAfterDark
07-31-2006, 12:35 AM
They didn't lose.

They left. They wiped out the Syrian air force when they invaded in 1982 and no one stopped them from doing what they wished.

They were not defeated militarily. They ended their occupation due to international demands and agreements.

You're calling for them to lose. Israel doesn't lose wars. Israel can't lose wars or they cease to exist. You fail to understand this.

Alonzo
07-31-2006, 12:37 AM
Israel entered to destroy Hezbollah. If they leave without achieving that goal (unfortunately it looks like they may even strengthen them) or at least significantly and permanently weakening them, then they lost.

PittsburghAfterDark
07-31-2006, 12:39 AM
If, if, if and if.

This thing is being fought on a 2 out of 10 on the scale of what Israel is capable of. It's like our fighting in Iraq, restrained.

An Israel at war does not lose. They are still not at war. They're plinking targets.

Alonzo
07-31-2006, 12:55 AM
Anything should of nukes is restrained, yet you and I both know that in reality restraint means much more than simply less than what you could do. This incident occurred over what was essentially a border skirmish.