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lily
07-27-2006, 06:58 PM
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/07/26/AR2006072601666.html?referrer=email

'Waiting to Get Blown Up'
Some Troops in Baghdad Express Frustration With the War and Their Mission

By Joshua Partlow
Washington Post Staff Writer
Thursday, July 27, 2006; Page A01

BAGHDAD, July 26 Army Staff Sgt. Jose Sixtos considered the simple question
about morale for more than an hour. But not until his convoy of armored
Humvees had finally rumbled back into the Baghdad military base, and the
soldiers emptied the ammunition from their machine guns, and passed off the
bomb-detecting robot to another patrol, did he turn around in his seat and
give his answer.

"Think of what you hate most about your job. Then think of doing what you
hate most for five straight hours, every single day, sometimes twice a day,
in 120-degree heat," he said. "Then ask how morale is."


Frustrated? "You have no idea," he said.

As President Bush plans to deploy more troops in Baghdad, U.S. soldiers who
have been patrolling the capital for months describe a deadly and
infuriating mission in which the enemy is elusive and success hard to find.
Each day, convoys of Humvees and Bradley Fighting Vehicles leave Forward
Operating Base Falcon in southern Baghdad with the goal of stopping violence
between warring Iraqi religious sects, training the Iraqi army and police to
take over the duty, and reporting back on the availability of basic services
for Iraqi civilians.

But some soldiers in the 2nd Battalion, 6th Infantry Regiment, 1st Armored
Division -- interviewed over four days on base and on patrols -- say they
have grown increasingly disillusioned about their ability to quell the
violence and their reason for fighting. The battalion of more than 750
people arrived in Baghdad from Kuwait in March, and since then, six soldiers
have been killed and 21 wounded.

"It sucks. Honestly, it just feels like we're driving around waiting to get
blown up. That's the most honest answer I could give you," said Spec. Tim
Ivey, 28, of San Antonio, a muscular former backup fullback for Baylor
University. "You lose a couple friends and it gets hard."

"No one wants to be here, you know, no one is truly enthused about what we
do," said Sgt. Christopher Dugger, the squad leader. "We were excited, but
then it just wears on you -- there's only so much you can take. Like me,
personally, I want to fight in a war like World War II. I want to fight an
enemy. And this, out here," he said, motioning around the scorched
sand-and-gravel base, the rows of Humvees and barracks, toward the
trash-strewn streets of Baghdad outside, "there is no enemy, it's a faceless
enemy. He's out there, but he's hiding."

"We're trained as an Army to fight and destroy the enemy and then take
over," added Dugger, 26, of Reno, Nev. "But I don't think we're trained
enough to push along a country, and that's what we're actually doing out
here."

"It's frustrating, but we are definitely a help to these people," he said.
"I'm out here with the guys that I know so well, and I couldn't picture
myself being anywhere else."

'Never-Ending Battle'



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


After a five-hour patrol on Saturday through southern Baghdad neighborhoods,
soldiers from the 1st Platoon sat on wooden benches in an enclosed porch
outside their barracks. Faces flushed and dirty from the grit and a beating
sun, they smoked cigarettes and tossed them at a rusted can that said
"Butts."

The commanders in Baghdad and the Pentagon are "looking at the big picture
all the time, but for us, we don't see no big picture, it's just always
another bomb out here," said Spec. Joshua Steffey, 24, of Asheville, N.C.
The company's commanding officer, Capt. Douglas A. DiCenzo of Plymouth,
N.H., and his gunner, Spec. Robert E. Blair of Ocala, Fla., were killed by a
roadside bomb in May.

Steffey said he wished "somebody would explain to us, 'Hey, this is what
we're working for.' " With a stream of expletives, he said he could not care
less "if Iraq's free" or "if they're a democracy."

CheesyMuslim
07-27-2006, 07:41 PM
Sorry bout that,

1. But this is coming to a city near you.
2. Its a suicide pandemic.
3. Its what Islam does.

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

Nathan Brazil
07-27-2006, 08:37 PM
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/07/26/AR2006072601666.html?referrer=email

"It's frustrating, but we are definitely a help to these people," he said.
"I'm out here with the guys that I know so well, and I couldn't picture
myself being anywhere else."


Steffey said he wished "somebody would explain to us, 'Hey, this is what
we're working for.' " With a stream of expletives, he said he could not care less "if Iraq's free" or "if they're a democracy."

The first guy understands, the second guy is a whiner.

lily
07-27-2006, 09:18 PM
I see. You support our troops........but only those who you agree with?

Nathan Brazil
07-27-2006, 10:30 PM
Calling a whiner isn't showing lack of support for our men in uniform, it's stating a fact.

Cobra
07-27-2006, 10:52 PM
The first guy understands, the second guy is a whiner.
Maybe he just has a differing view of the situation from the other soldier, voicing your concerns about the reason your life is being put on the line daily isn’t really being a whiner. Some things are worth complaining about and need to be.

Churchel
07-27-2006, 11:35 PM
Calling a whiner isn't showing lack of support for our men in uniform, it's stating a fact.


Send that guy a pinkslip and have his drawers cleaned out by security.

Chickenhawk.

lily
07-28-2006, 08:57 AM
Isn't a chicken hawk someone that talks war, but doesn't serve......like most of this administration? As I said before, just because you don't like what he has to say, I think it shows more guts, than talking on a message board, to actually go there and serve........even if it means, going around in circles, not having any mission.

Nathan Brazil
07-28-2006, 11:41 AM
Isn't a chicken hawk someone that talks war, but doesn't serve......like most of this administration? As I said before, just because you don't like what he has to say, I think it shows more guts, than talking on a message board, to actually go there and serve........even if it means, going around in circles, not having any mission.


Don't know about you, but I did serve. When can show you have what it takes to take a new construction submarine out on it's maiden voyage sea trials, let me know.

Old Corps Gunny
07-28-2006, 12:04 PM
The Washington Post is not about to print comments from soldiers who show enthusiasm or even support for their mission. Further, a unit that lost it's commander just a few months ago is going to have a morale problem from the get-go; and, yes, when you can't tell the enemy from the civilians, it is frustrating, particularly when you have to wonder if you will be accused of murder if you shoot back when attacked.

If Specialist Steffey doesn't know yet why he is in Iraq, it's because he was ordered there -- he is a soldier (a volunteer, not a draftee) and soldiers follow orders. If he paid any attention over the last several years, the President and the Secretary of Defense have stated on numerous occasions what the goal is for Iraq: self-government and training Iraqi forces to be able to defend that government and their country. I am sure that this has been explained to the troops prior to deploying to Iraq.

It's amazing how the Washington Post, the New York Times, LA Times, and let us not overlook the Associated Press or BBC, only print interviews with soldiers who are dissatisfied with their deployment, giving the impression that our military think their service in Iraq is not only useless, but putting them in danger for no good reason. I have personally talked with active duty Marines and National Guardsmen who have returned from Iraq and, while just about all have expressed frustration fighting against "a faceless enemy", the overwhelming majority feel they have been useful and are accomplishing the mission they were sent there for. Naturally, there will be a percentage who feel they shouldn't have been there, but don't confuse them with the majority because the "whiners" are the only ones the liberal press wants to quote.

And before anyone says anything about talking war but not serving, I have put in 23 years in the Corps, and among other deployments, have served in Vietnam, Lebanon, and Grenada. Until the UN gets its act together, the US will have to continue to use its military to act as the world's police force whenever US interests are threatened.

Churchel
07-28-2006, 02:08 PM
Isn't a chicken hawk someone that talks war, but doesn't serve......like most of this administration? As I said before, just because you don't like what he has to say, I think it shows more guts, than talking on a message board, to actually go there and serve........even if it means, going around in circles, not having any mission.


Don't know about you, but I did serve.Â*Â*When can show you have what it takes to take a new construction submarine out on it's maiden voyage sea trials, let me know.


Auctually, since lessons learned from the thresher, including not to have 3,000 subsafe fittings, the only true requirement for a submarine crew on a maiden voyage is a lockable buttplug.

Now if you want to talk balls replace a main shaft seal on a sturgeon class while its still in the water. If you were on any med cruises in the mid 90's I probably was on board your boat at one point or another.

Your chickenhawk status is retracted, but if you served on a submarine then we both know that it was not an inherently dangerous job where your life could end at any second, at any time.

Nathan Brazil
07-28-2006, 02:27 PM
Your chickenhawk status is retracted, but if you served on a submarine then we both know that it was not an inherently dangerous job where your life could end at any second, at any time.

Uh...yeah, you clearly didn't serve under Cdr. Beard and Lt. Downey, who managed to wreck half an engine room and run into another submarine in less than ten months, and six months of that were spent in dry-dock.

Churchel
07-29-2006, 12:15 AM
Your chickenhawk status is retracted, but if you served on a submarine then we both know that it was not an inherently dangerous job where your life could end at any second, at any time.

Uh...yeah, you clearly didn't serve under Cdr. Beard and Lt. Downey, who managed to wreck half an engine room and run into another submarine in less than ten months, and six months of that were spent in dry-dock.


I had an idiot sub CO in charge of our ship. We went through an LP turbine and a bunch of other shit. We both know my point is correct.

Nathan Brazil
07-29-2006, 03:49 AM
Oh, and did I mention that the maiden voyage of that sub included a 70 degree down bubble? That certainly wasn't part of the checklist. Uncle Hymie wasn't pleased.

Old Corps Gunny
08-07-2006, 11:45 AM
I can't not speak with authority about serving on submarines, having served in the Marine Corps. When I was with Force Reconnaisance, however, I did log time on some subs training for underwater insertions in the Carib and North Atlantic, as well as some actual insertions. I couldn't help but wonder why these "bubbleheads" were constantly running emergency drills at all hours unless there was a very real threat of something seriously going wrong (after all, the ship had already sunk!!). All in all, I have to admit, I never enjoyed these particular exercises and was happy to be back ON the water and on land. Give me a parachute anytime.

Rider
08-07-2006, 12:38 PM
Lily,
You got the definition of "chickenhawk" right, but blew it when you applied it to the administration. By that definition FDR was a chickenhawk, too. I guess this means that you'd never vote for a woman for president, eh?

Gunny,
Thanks for your service. I served a hitch as a junior officer back in the early 70's. I appreciate what you've done and what our young Marines and soldier are doing now. -Semper Fi

Nathan Brazil
08-07-2006, 01:45 PM
I can't not speak with authority about serving on submarines, having served in the Marine Corps.Â*Â*When I was with Force Reconnaisance, however, I did log time on some subs training for underwater insertions in the Carib and North Atlantic, as well as some actual insertions.Â*Â*I couldn't help but wonder why these "bubbleheads" were constantly running emergency drills at all hours unless there was a very real threat of something seriously going wrong (after all, the ship had already sunk!!).Â*Â*All in all, I have to admit, I never enjoyed these particular exercises and was happy to be back ON the water and on land.Â*Â*Give me a parachute anytime.


No, most of the drills performed have to do with fixing things so the boat won't get sunk. Fire drills and weapons emergency drills and all the possible power plant failures than can give you a bad day, all of them, caught and treated properly in time, can be survived and the mission completed successfully.

That, and the command likes to see the enlisted guys run around...