Why Liberals Suck...

[PatrickHenry]

Heh. Catchy title, huh?

OK, so I don't think every liberal idea sucks.

Just most of 'em.

Like that every problem has a government solution.

Got a problem? Liberal Answer: MORE GOVERNMENT!

Another reason liberals suck: They think it's Government money, so don't worry about spending it! Where do they think it comes from?

Furthermore, they are touchingly sympathetic to criminals. They say, "Let's don't execute anyone! That might hurt them!"

And liberals loudly support every homosexual move against traditional values. Liberals think that homos have the right to redefine what's right and wrong.

Most every liberal I know thinks it's a good idea to kill a baby in the womb if momma doesn't want it. That's a shitty deal, killing innocent people just because they are inconvenient.

They think your property belongs to the government and therefore you should pay taxes on it and let the government confiscate it or tell you what you can or can't do with it for any reason whatsoever.

That's a few of the reasons liberals suck.

What else?

I will tell you if the reasons you come up with are correct or if that's not one of the reasons liberals suck. :ponder:

[Scorpion]

Liberals are too stupid to be conservatives. How's that for a reason.

I always liked what that heroic conservative Ronald Reagan said, "Government isn't the solution to our problems. Government is the problem."

[I Like Beer]

Very catchy title....

In another thread, Scorpion called you a liberal. I knew he was crazy.

[Scorpion]

Very catchy title....

In another thread, Scorpion called you a liberal. I knew he was crazy.


In that particular thread his posting echoed the liberal mindset. I call 'em as I see 'em.

[Alonzo]

Well this is certainly a different side of you than I've ever seen Patrick. I admit that I've always thought of you as a crazy conspiracy theorist (I tried to think of another term so it wouldn't be misconstrued as an attack, I just have no other way of putting it), and I realize you have an irrational dislike of soldiers, but I always thought such broad statements about the members of a viewpoint (liberals suck) were beneath you.

Liberals think that homos have the right to redefine what's right and wrong.

I also thought slurs like that were beneath you.

I certainly have a different impression of you after this thread. And I can only wonder what you think of me, since I'm sure I embody almost everything you hate in liberals, and the central thing you hate in conservatives right now, opposing Iraqi withdrawal.

Also, I just realized how much I sound like boogy.


Liberals are too stupid to be conservatives. How's that for a reason.


You can call liberals a lot of thing, but stupid is rather.......well stupid. Considering the constant complaints about liberals controlling colleges and other institutions of higher education, calling them stupid makes no sense. Wrong, while I disagree, is reasonable. Stupid is just bizarre given the whole liberal-education connection.

[lily]

Another reason liberals suck: They think it's Government money, so don't worry about spending it! Where do they think it comes from?

Well, as we've seen this doesn't seem to be just a Liberal policy. The one difference is, Liberals know that things have to be paid for.

Furthermore, they are touchingly sympathetic to criminals. They say, "Let's don't execute anyone! That might hurt them!"

I think that idea comes from something you may consider just as silly....that whole cruel and unusual punnishment thing-a-ma-bob.

And liberals loudly support every homosexual move against traditional values. Liberals think that homos have the right to redefine what's right and wrong.

Yeah, I know they really are kinda strong on that whole equal rights for all.

Most every liberal I know thinks it's a good idea to kill a baby in the womb if momma doesn't want it. That's a shitty deal, killing innocent people just because they are inconvenient.

See the only thing about this.......is no one is forcing anyone into having an abortion.





I will tell you if the reasons you come up with are correct or if that's not one of the reasons liberals suck. :ponder:

Oh shit.........this was a test? Are you going to grade on a curve?

[PatrickHenry]

Heh, lily...

I'm just stirring up trouble.

And alonzo, yeah, you're the liberal's liberal...

But I really don't hate anyone except despots.

Americans with liberal politics aren't the enemy, just IMHO, misguided.

I'm gonna start a thread called Why Conservatives Suck pretty soon...

Because I am a balanced, fair-minded guy. :lmao:

[moses2792796]

Liberals are too stupid to be conservatives. How's that for a reason.


Ooh ooh I've got another one, conservatives are too stupid to be fascists!

[PatrickHenry]

Alonzo, I never meant "homo" in a disparaging way, though I know it is used that way sometimes. Sorry if I offended you. I was just using it as an abbreviation for "homosexual."

And Liberals aren't stupid for the reason that you think, Scorpion.

But they are stupid. Saying that is just an insult if there is no reasoning behind it, like you did.

Here's why I think liberals are stupid: The Presidential elections of 2000 and 2004 were stolen. Stolen by disenfranchising the minority (black), Democratic Party, (liberal) vote in key states. What did the liberals do? Diddly squat, that's what! They are too stupid to even look at what various researchers have found and demand that there be a fair vote. Letting election fraud go and not putting someone's head on a pike is just plain stupid and that's what the liberals did!

Not only that, but they bought Bush's lies when he wanted to attack Iraq. I am not a liberal and I didn't buy his lies. I knew everything was all twisted up and an unwarranted invasion was underway, but Washington's liberals bought the WMD line en masse.
Why? IMO, because they are stupid...or it could be they are complicit in his bloodthirsty campaign of death against the Middle East. I don't see them impeaching his sorry butt for war crimes yet, despite abundant evidence...

Why else do liberals suck?

They don't think the Constitution is of much value. Tenth Amendment? They never heard of it...Anything the Feds want to do is okay with them. Just pass a law or claim some area of commerce and say that's a Federal prerogative... Why haven't they chopped Bush to pieces for trashing the Constitution and grabbing power for the Executive? I'll tell you why... Because they intend to do the same thing when they occupy the White House. They actually like the idea that the Republic is devolving to Empire!

Liberals are in favor of gun grabbing. They would have everyone in America disarmed if they could. Fortunately there are enough of us who would shoot the confiscators and they know it...

Liberals want God to disappear. Since He doesn't, their panties are all wedgied up.They go after silly stuff like Christmas creches on town squares and all sorts of PC crap, saying somebody's rights have been violated.
Going after Judge Moore in Alabama for the Ten Commandments in the Supreme Court lobby showed how bad liberals suck. A Ten Commandments monument doesn't violate the First Amendment; it establishes no religion, just a touchstone.

Oh, and lily: In an abortion, someone is being FORCED...to die...

[December]

Liberalism was invented to distroy the civilized world.
Don't think so?

Well, just take a look at the Hippy Movement which is an extreme form of Liberalism -

http://www.moonbattery.com/archives/hippies.jpg

http://www.dgorton.com/white_south/white_jpg/hippies/hippies.jpg

http://www.barsottidesigns.com/Gallery/Photos/Images/Random%20Hippies.jpg

[Elrathin]

Liberals are in favor of gun grabbing. They would have everyone in America disarmed if they could. Fortunately there are enough of us who would shoot the confiscators and they know it...

I am a liberal and I own several guns. OOPS guess your generalizations went right in the toilet again.


Liberals want God to disappear.

So All liberals are now atheists huh? Again, using generalizations like that say more about you than liberals.


Oh, and lily: In an abortion, someone is being FORCED...to die...


Yep many things on this planet die everyday. Sucks, but until they find a way to remove the baby from the mother and incubate it so she doesn't have to carry it to term, I'm gonna side with the mother.

[Anti-Racism]

And liberals loudly support every homosexual move against traditional values. Liberals think that homos have the right to redefine what's right and wrong.

Most every liberal I know thinks it's a good idea to kill a baby in the womb if momma doesn't want it. That's a shitty deal, killing innocent people just because they are inconvenient.


Let the homosexuals live, if they can do it without infringing on the lives of traditional people.

If the baby's momma doesn't want it, exterminate it. We've got too many people anyway. Besides, with its broken home, it might grow up to be a hipster.

Why are conservatives so afraid to admit most people are stupid pieces of shit and their loss would accelerate humanity's growth?

[ticbeast]

Here's why I think liberals are stupid: The Presidential elections of 2000 and 2004 were stolen. Stolen by disenfranchising the minority (black), Democratic Party, (liberal) vote in key states. What did the liberals do? Diddly squat, that's what! They are too stupid to even look at what various researchers have found and demand that there be a fair vote. Letting election fraud go and not putting someone's head on a pike is just plain stupid and that's what the liberals did!

So suddenly...its the liberals fault that there was conservative fraud? Well then in that case it is the fault of everyone who wasn't making the frauds. Libs, independents, greens, everyone. At least according to your logic.

Not only that, but they bought Bush's lies when he wanted to attack Iraq. I am not a liberal and I didn't buy his lies. I knew everything was all twisted up and an unwarranted invasion was underway, but Washington's liberals bought the WMD line en masse.
Why? IMO, because they are stupid...or it could be they are complicit in his bloodthirsty campaign of death against the Middle East. I don't see them impeaching his sorry butt for war crimes yet, despite abundant evidence...


When the highest levels of government agencies come out and say "this guy has nukes" its pretty hard to argue otherwise. Oh and you can't forget that:
1. Not all liberals supported the war to begin with
2. Many more don't support it now
3. I'm certain just as many if not more conservatives bought it too
4. It wasn't just libs and cons that bought it. Frankly, quite alot of people from just about every political party did. So here we are, blaming one group for supporting what mostly everyone did. Excellent.


They don't think the Constitution is of much value. Tenth Amendment? They never heard of it...Anything the Feds want to do is okay with them. Just pass a law or claim some area of commerce and say that's a Federal prerogative... Why haven't they chopped Bush to pieces for trashing the Constitution and grabbing power for the Executive? I'll tell you why... Because they intend to do the same thing when they occupy the White House. They actually like the idea that the Republic is devolving to Empire!

This is why we haven't tried to impeach members of this administration.
Don't be silly.
http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/11/06/kuchinich-keeps-pushing-cheney-impeachment/


Liberals are in favor of gun grabbing. They would have everyone in America disarmed if they could. Fortunately there are enough of us who would shoot the confiscators and they know it...


Like stated above, that is a generalization not supported by factual evidence.
Ok, yes. A good chunk of liberals probably believe in gun control. I however, like Elrathin, own guns and do not agree with gun control ideas.


Liberals want God to disappear. Since He doesn't, their panties are all wedgied up.They go after silly stuff like Christmas creches on town squares and all sorts of PC crap, saying somebody's rights have been violated.
Going after Judge Moore in Alabama for the Ten Commandments in the Supreme Court lobby showed how bad liberals suck. A Ten Commandments monument doesn't violate the First Amendment; it establishes no religion, just a touchstone.

Are you saying it is not possible for me to be both a believer and a liberal? Sorry pal but I am.
Oh, and it shouldn't matter if god went away frankly. He has no place in our country's politics.
Separation of church and state + treaty of tripoli anyone?

[PatrickHenry]

Good responses...thanks for contributing to the thread, my friends.

[December]

PatrickHenry, we need to find out who started the Liberalism thing and send them to prison. :D

Liberalism was invented to distroy the civilized world.

[Alonzo]

Why are conservatives so afraid to admit most people are stupid pieces of sh1t and their loss would accelerate humanity's growth?

It's called self preservation.

(That was way too easy :lmao:)

Yes, I know you're not supposed to laugh at your own jokes.

[Phyxius]

If Conservatism Is The Ideology of Freedom, I'm The Queen of England (http://www.smirkingchimp.com/thread/11193)


By David Michael Green
Created Nov 23 2007 - 9:19am
I wish I had a nickel for every time a conservative told a lie in order to sell an ideology that would otherwise be hopelessly unappealing.

But, then, what the hell would I do with ten kazillion, trillion, dollars? I wouldn't know how to spend that much loot.

These lies are legend, and they're endlessly retold. Everything from the one about the liberal bias in the media, or the one about Ronald Reagan ending the Cold War, to the one about how the private sector is so much more efficient than the government. And how about Saddam's arsenal of WMD, eh? Or the tax cuts that weren't going to drive the federal government into deficit? Or remember when George Bush told us that the war in Iraq was over, before it had even really started? Or the bit about how global warming is just a great big conspiracy among those noted well-known cabalists, er ... climatology scientists?

I'm only just getting started here, but you get the point. If you're a conservative you basically have two choices - lie or lose. 'Cause if you tell the truth, no one in his or her right mind would buy the garbage you're peddling.

The list of lies is endless, but my personal favorite is the one about how conservatism is the ideology of freedom, and specifically freedom from an overweening, intrusive, liberty-stealing, nanny-state government.

Sometimes when I hear that howler, I have to pinch myself to make sure I'm not off in some virtual reality world (like 'Liberty' University, or the Republican national convention) somewhere. Because, clearly, between me and the well-programmed fool mouthing these hopeless inanities, one of us is, that's for sure.

But I'll tell you what, if conservatism is the ideology of freedom - then I'm the Queen of England. And, one thing you can be sure of is that I'm not the Queen of England. I don't even have the right parts and pieces, and the only crown I've ever worn was given to me forty years ago by some pimply-faced teenager working the cash register at Burger King. Somehow, I don't think that counts.

Meanwhile, here's what I'd like to know:

If conservatism is the ideology of freedom, how come they're the ones who fought against the American Revolution?

If conservatism is the ideology of freedom, how come they're the ones who are always trying to take that freedom away from us, especially women and minorities? Why did they fight against the effort to end slavery, or to give women and minorities the vote, or to protect them from discrimination? Why are they still supporting efforts to disenfranchise minorities?

If conservatism is the ideology of freedom, how come they're the ones who bitterly opposed the New Deal at a time when Americans were ravaged by the Great Depression and the only freedom they were desperately seeking was from unemployment, starvation, humiliation and death? We should give thanks for their efforts ever since then, though, as they've been kind enough to keep trying to liberate seniors from the hell of receiving their Social Security benefits, bravely volunteering Wall Street to carry that burden instead.

If conservatism is the ideology of freedom, how come they're the ones who are always propping up foreign dictators, like Saddam, Musharraf, Mubarak, Marcos, Pinochet, the Shah, Batista, the House of Saud and apartheid South Africa? Why did they, in some of these cases, secretly topple democratically elected governments to install repressive regimes, which they then assisted in the torturing of their own citizens? Exactly which definition of 'freedom' does that fall under?

If conservatism is the ideology of freedom, how come they're the ones who are always trying to control other people's sexuality? Why are conservatives always telling us whom we can sleep with and what we can do in bed, even including whether we can use birth control?

If conservatism is the ideology of freedom, how come they're the ones who are always trying to make sure that the state takes control of women's bodies, denying them reproductive choice and freedom?

If conservatism is the ideology of freedom, how come they're the ones who are always trying to tell us who we can marry? How come they believe that the state - which they always seem to hate, except when it is at war - should be able to make that most personal decision for us?

If conservatism is the ideology of freedom, how come they're the ones who are always blocking the environmental regulations which are the only hope to keep our bodies free from carcinogens and other harmful effects?

If conservatism is the ideology of freedom, how come they're the ones who refuse to allow us to use medical marijuana when we are suffering the effects of chemotherapy, and even perhaps at risk of dying from the wasting it causes?

Indeed, if conservatism is the ideology of freedom, how come they're the ones who are limiting the freedom of individuals to use drugs of any sort? If people want to use these substances and can do so without harming others, why do conservatives insist on restricting that freedom?

If conservatism is the ideology of freedom, how come they're the ones who refuse to allow us to die with dignity when we have a terminal disease, instead thrusting the state into the most personal and private decision a human being can make?

If conservatism is the ideology of freedom, how come they're the ones who passed an act of Congress intervening in the personal family tragedy of Terri Schiavo, with the president of the United States - the same one who couldn't be bothered to come off vacation to deal with the 9/11 threat or the Katrina disaster - flying across the country to sign it?

If conservatism is the ideology of freedom, how come they're the ones who are denying many of us the freedom to live by forbidding the stem-cell research that would likely produce cures to all manner of diseases now killing of millions of us every year?

If conservatism is the ideology of freedom, how come they're the ones who are loading up our children with mountains of debt that the federal government has borrowed under the stewardship of such notorious liberals as Ronald Reagan (who quadrupled the national debt) and George W. Bush (who borrowed more money from foreign governments than all 42 of his predecessors, combined)? Right now, every eighteen year-old just starting a payroll job owes $60,000, and rising, plus interest, as their share of the nine trillion dollars conservatives have been especially instrumental in running up as national debt. What kind of freedom, exactly, does that represent? Assuming (quite 'conservatively') that that number rises to $100,000 before it is paid off, and that our young friend earns ten bucks an hour, it is the freedom to work five solid years, bringing home zero dollars after taxes, to do nothing whatsoever but paying off his share of the conservative binge.

If conservatism is the ideology of freedom, how come they're the ones who have taken the very lives of four thousand of our soldiers for a war based completely on lies? This same war has left tens of thousands of Americans gravely wounded, likely more than a million Iraqi civilians dead, and well over four million more Iraqis as refugees from the violence. What kind of freedom is this? The freedom from having to be alive and well? The freedom to serve three and four rotations of extended tours in the hell of Iraq, keeping our military personnel safe from their nagging mothers-in-law at home?

If conservatism is the ideology of freedom, how come they're the ones who are so anxious to take away our civil liberties, the most important of American freedoms, as enshrined in one of the greatest statements of freedom ever, the Bill of Rights? What happened to habeas corpus - a freedom dating back almost a thousand years - or the right to an attorney, or to have a trial, or to be protected from search and seizure without a judicially-issued warrant based on probable cause, or protection from torture? What happened to all those freedoms? What happened is that conservatives came to town and erased them.

If conservatism is the ideology of freedom, how come they're the ones who are always trying to have the government jam their religion down our throats, in direct opposition to the intentions of the Founders? The United States Constitution makes precisely the same number of references to the Christian god as it does to the Jewish, Muslim, Hindu and Zoroastrian. That would be none. What kind of freedom is it for everyone's tax dollars to support one group's religion, or for our government to impose a single religion on all of us?

If conservatism is the ideology of freedom, how come they're the ones who are always telling me I should leave the country if I don't approve the latest war for lies they've cooked up? How exactly does 'shut-up or leave' qualify as freedom of speech?

If conservatism is the ideology of freedom, how come they're the ones who are constantly attempting to turn the executive branch of the federal government into a monarchy? By using signing statements, endless claims of executive privilege, lack of congressional oversight when they controlled Congress, thwarted oversight when they didn't, and unprecedented levels of secrecy, they have shredded the fundamental doctrine of separated powers checking and balancing against each other. Since those ideas - the most basic concept of the Constitution - are intended to keep us safe from governments that would steal our liberties, just how is it that conservatism is the ideology of freedom?

Any one of these inconvenient truths, let alone the sum of all of them, demonstrate the absurdity of this claim. Not only is it ridiculous to call a conservatism that at every turn seeks to limit you - in what you can say, what you can ingest, who you can sleep with, marry, and even when you can end your own life - the ideology of freedom, but the only real conclusion that one can honestly come to on the basis of this historical record is of course just the opposite: Conservatism is, and has almost always been, the ideology of oppression - the very opposite of freedom.

When Americans wanted liberty from the British crown, conservative Tories not only in Britain but here as well fought to block that freedom. When 'radicals' sought to emancipate the slaves, conservatives fought to keep them in chains. When progressives later sought equality for women and blacks, it was conservatives who stood in the doorways blocking entrance. And, today, as we seek justice and fairness for all people regardless of their sexual orientation, it is - wait for it, now - the conservative movement which not only resists that effort at every turn, but in fact shamefully turns their homophobia into a tool used to win elections, just as they have been doing with racism for forty years now.

Indeed, you have to be more or less deaf, dumb and blind - or perhaps simply watching Fox every night for your 'news' (which produces the same result) - to buy into this rhetoric from the theater of the absurd. Let me reiterate: If you think these monsters who are depriving you of your liberties at every opportunity represent freedom, then you need to bow, scrape and walk backwards in my presence, as a sign of respect for the British crown. I'll take a bunch of your money, too. Palaces aren't cheap to maintain, buddy.

Yeah, sure, it's true that conservatives will be right there for you if you want the freedom to buy guns and ammo, including 'cop-killer' bullets, assault rifles (to nail those most obstinate of pheasants, of course), or a fifty caliber rifle capable of bringing down a jumbo jet, and advertised as such in its sales literature. Of course, along with the freedom to buy these weapons (and how come, if the Second Amendment protects the bearing of "arms", not 'guns', I can't also legally buy cannons, napalm and tactical nuclear warheads - just in case the neighborhood gets a little rowdy?), also comes the lovely 'freedom' to join the 35,000 or so Americans every year who become very stiff corpses as a result of the massive proliferation of weapons in which America uniquely specializes. Perhaps you'd rather live in Europe, eh, enjoying being alive? Well, for the rest of you non-sissies out there, conservatives have made sure that you have the freedom to take your bullet along with you when you're buried. What cheese-eating Frenchman ever had that freedom?

Conservatives are also busy making sure that there is plenty of freedom for corporations to pollute the land, water and air we depend on for survival. Regulation is bad, you see. Very bad. It's much better to have freedom - including your freedom to get sick, or to live in a world careering toward global disaster - than it would be to impede on the freedom of the super-rich to make themselves super-duper-rich.

No need to worry too much about the health implications of global warming, arsenic or radioactive waste, though. Chances are you won't live long enough to get killed this way, or to be shot by somebody whose freedom to own a gun has been well protected by nice right-wing people. That's because conservatives are also on the front-lines in the lonely battle fighting to make sure that you have the opportunity to join the more than 47 million Americans free from having healthcare coverage, or the many tens of millions more whose policies are insufficient to keep them alive. Don't you feel good knowing you're free from the evils of 'socialized' medicine? Isn't profit-driven corporate non-care so much better? Forget about "Give me liberty or give me death". Now you can have both!

One thing you can't argue about, however, is that it is conservatives who will keep your taxes down. Right? Well, yeah, if you mean this year. And if you mean nickels and dimes. But then, by applying the same logic, making your house payment on a credit card would be defined as keeping your monthly expenses down. (Of course, since you're about to lose your house anyhow, as a result of conservative economics, that may be a moot point.) But there's just these two little problems. One is that the nice people who loan you money invariably want to be paid back. And, two, they want interest on the loans as well. I don't know who middle-class Americans dreamed would be paying for their meager tax cuts, which - along with massively increased government spending by those paragons of fiscal responsibility, you guessed it, conservatives - were funded by charging it all on the federal plastic, but you can bet America's creditors know all our addresses. They'll find us when the bill comes due.

Of course, this is only the beginning. What the tax cuts were really about was shifting the burden of funding government from the wealthy to the middle class, and from today's generation to tomorrow's. So, not only will middle class Americans, or their kids, have to pay back everything borrowed these last six years to fund their piddly little tax cuts, plus interest accrued, but they will also be paying for the massive tax cuts that were given to the massively wealthy.

Which, of course, is really what the whole elaborate kabuki dance of conservative 'freedom' was ever all about, from the beginning. As one of the greatest political marketing ploys of all time, it used pathetic middle class tax cuts plus supremely ironic restrictions on social and personal liberties to sell a bunch of frightened naifs on the notion that conservatism is the ideology of freedom, all so that the uber-class could realize their dream kleptocracy in place of a government actually devoted to public service. And, remarkably, it worked - at least for a time.

Don't you feel better now that you're free after decades of Reagan, Gingrich, Bush, Cheney, DeLay and Scalia? You're free to shut up with your unpopular ideas. You're free from having to make difficult decisions when you're pregnant. You're free to be arrested for smoking a joint to keep from vomiting while you're doing chemotherapy. You're free from having to worry about which sex you're going to sleep with or marry. You're free from protection against guns or from long life in a healthy environment. And when you do get shot or sick, you're free from adequate medical care. Moreover, should you find yourself stuck with a painful and terminal illness, you're also free from either stem-cell remedies or your own choice to end your suffering and die with dignity.

You're also free to fall through the tattered safety net of government programs during a recession or a depression, and you'll likely be free from making those pesky house payments very much further into the future either. You're free from wondering whether the rest of the world hates you and your country because it's been undermining democracies, propping up dictators, and invading oil-rich countries on the basis of completely fabricated war rationales. You're free from having to pay your taxes today. But you'll also be free from buying those things you wanted tomorrow, as you'll instead be paying today's taxes, interest on those taxes, tomorrow's taxes, plus the share that the wealthy used to pay.

So whattaya think? Ain't conservative freedom great?

Next time you hear a conservative ranting about the wonder and joys of freedom, tell them: "Yeah, no kidding, freedom is a really good thing. You'd like it even better if you actually tried it out some time."

[Voluntary]

I hope you are not equating liberalism to modern day democrats.

Got a problem? Liberal Answer: MORE GOVERNMENT!
Doesn't this go against liberal ideology of laissez-faire?

They think it's Government money, so don't worry about spending it! Where do they think it comes from?
Jefferson and Jackson are both rolling over in their graves. The government deficit is out of control. Historically, Democrats were against running a deficit.

They say, "Let's don't execute anyone! That might hurt them!"
While the death penalty is a controversial subject, studies have shown that it is cheaper to imprison people for life, then execute them. If memory serves me right, around 10% of people on death row get exonerated or proven innocent after they were executed.

Liberals think that homos have the right to redefine what's right and wrong.
Never met a liberal that gave homos the monopoly of deciding what was right or wrong.

Most every liberal I know thinks it's a good idea to kill a baby in the womb if momma doesn't want it. That's a shitty deal, killing innocent people just because they are inconvenient.
Your rhetoric is awful. It is not up to the government to decide. The human body is not the right of the government.

They think your property belongs to the government and therefore you should pay taxes on it and let the government confiscate it or tell you what you can or can't do with it for any reason whatsoever.
Do you have examples?

[PatrickHenry]

I hope you are not equating liberalism to modern day democrats. Did you mean Capital D "Democrats?" Because, like it or not, that is how the term has evolved....

Got a problem? Liberal Answer: MORE GOVERNMENT!
Doesn't this go against liberal ideology of laissez-faire? Do you really think that the concept of laissez faire is a liberal one? Current liberals are in favor of government meddling in all human affairs.

They think it's Government money, so don't worry about spending it! Where do they think it comes from?
Jefferson and Jackson are both rolling over in their graves. The government deficit is out of control. Historically, Democrats were against running a deficit. Jefferson and Jackson? From the earliest phases of the USA? Hardly current liberals... I might add that government deficits have been rampant all my life and can be traced easily to FDR's presidency, if not before. Conservatives of a bygone era embraced a balanced budget. It seems that misnamed contemporary "conservatives" have joined the liberals in spending freely.

They say, "Let's don't execute anyone! That might hurt them!"
While the death penalty is a controversial subject, studies have shown that it is cheaper to imprison people for life, then execute them. If memory serves me right, around 10% of people on death row get exonerated or proven innocent after they were executed. Why is it cheaper? Would that be because the endless appeals are so costly? Believe me, I am not in favor of innocent people being railroaded. Either to death or to a long prison sentence. Capital crimes deserve a first-class trial, with excellent defense attorneys and permissive rules of evidence that allow exculpatory testimony and circumstances. Prosecutors and police must not have a personal agenda.

I am not bloodthirsty either. I think that governors should be encouraged to commute sentences if they think it is appropriate. Examples (IMO) would include Karla Faye Tucker and Tookie Williams. Both executed when their sentences should have been commuted to life without parole.

Liberals think that homos have the right to redefine what's right and wrong.
Never met a liberal that gave homos the monopoly of deciding what was right or wrong.Really? Some reside on this board...

Most every liberal I know thinks it's a good idea to kill a baby in the womb if momma doesn't want it. That's a shitty deal, killing innocent people just because they are inconvenient.
Your rhetoric is awful. It is not up to the government to decide. The human body is not the right of the government. Heh. Sorry about the rhetoric. It's part of what I do...my persona...

But killing human bodies IS an affair that government must oversee. If the death is wrongful, someone must be punished. It is wrongful in circumstances that permit no claim of self-defense. In my opinion, using abortion for birth control doesn't fit that situation.

They think your property belongs to the government and therefore you should pay taxes on it and let the government confiscate it or tell you what you can or can't do with it for any reason whatsoever.
Do you have examples?
Well, off the top of my head, I come up with Kelo v New London (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kelo_v_New_London), but there are numerous instances of the abuse of eminent domain to confiscate real property from reluctant owners.

Not to mention a number of outrageous takings to assure enviromental "quality."

[Elrathin]

Really? Some reside on this board...


Really can you show me which liberals, along with quotes, that have said Homosexuals decide what is right or wrong with our society as a whole in every case?

This is a put up or shut up moment. Waiting for your proof.

[I Like Beer]

By David Michael Green One thing you can't argue about, however, is that it is conservatives who will keep your taxes down. Right? Well, yeah, if you mean this year. And if you mean nickels and dimes. But then, by applying the same logic, making your house payment on a credit card would be defined as keeping your monthly expenses down. (Of course, since you're about to lose your house anyhow, as a result of conservative economics, that may be a moot point.) But there's just these two little problems. One is that the nice people who loan you money invariably want to be paid back. And, two, they want interest on the loans as well. I don't know who middle-class Americans dreamed would be paying for their meager tax cuts, which - along with massively increased government spending by those paragons of fiscal responsibility, you guessed it, conservatives - were funded by charging it all on the federal plastic, but you can bet America's creditors know all our addresses. They'll find us when the bill comes due.

Excellent article, Phyxius. I hope our conservative friends will respond to parts of it.[hr]
Heh. Catchy title, huh?

OK, so I don't think every liberal idea sucks.

Just most of 'em.

Like that every problem has a government solution.

Got a problem? Liberal Answer: MORE GOVERNMENT!

I thought this thread was a joke and wasn't going to respond to your points, but then, I changed my mind.

1 - It is Bush (a neo-con) who has increased the size of the government - and gov't spending - more than any president since FDR. If you equate modern liberals with Democrats (a HUGE mistake in my view) then it is they (Clinton) who reduced gov't.

2- Liberals want government out of such things as who we marry, the right to die, the right to do with our bodies as we see fit (smoke marijuana, for example), what we read and watch on tv, what religion we follow.

Policies of less government (like conservatives CLAIM they support - LMAO) have led the US to have the SECOND HIGHEST rate of poverty in the industrialized world. You beat Mexico - congrats!

Another reason liberals suck: They think it's Government money, so don't worry about spending it! Where do they think it comes from?

Again, see point #1. Reagan and the Bushes have been the big spenders.

Furthermore, they are touchingly sympathetic to criminals. They say, "Let's don't execute anyone! That might hurt them!"

In my own country, we have no death penalty, no three strike law, restrictive gun laws, (apparently) liberal judges, while you have the opposite. You have the worlds highest incarceration rate. How are conservative polices working?

These policies (no death penalty) have more to do with dealing constructively with crime and criminals and less about being 'sympathetic'.

And liberals loudly support every homosexual move against traditional values. Liberals think that homos have the right to redefine what's right and wrong.

I don't think I'll touch this one except to say that 'yes'. Unlike the lip service paid to it by conservative, we actually support individual rights and the rights of consenting adults to live their lives as they see fit as long as that life does not infringe on the rights of others. If you wish to debate homosexuality being 'wrong', that's a whole other thread.

Most every liberal I know thinks it's a good idea to kill a baby in the womb if momma doesn't want it. That's a shitty deal, killing innocent people just because they are inconvenient.

I've known two people who've gotten abortions and they both went through hell making the decision. These pregnancies weren't 'inconvenient' like some unwanted guest at a party - bringing those potential children into the world would have created unbelievable problems - and not just for those two women. At least one of those women would have ended up on some kind of assistance - of course, had that happened, conservatives would have worked hard to take away those resources leaving her very few options.

Why don't conservatives give a damn once the baby is out of the womb? They don't really seem to care until the child reaches an age where it can be taken into the military.

They think your property belongs to the government and therefore you should pay taxes on it and let the government confiscate it or tell you what you can or can't do with it for any reason whatsoever.

Taxes on property serves a purpose. Who takes away your garbage, educates your children, takes care of sewage and on and on. You propose some kind of private company to do these things?

In your second case, I know no liberals who approve of the confiscation of private property except in the most extreme conditions. I assume you have a particular case in mind?

Why do liberals really suck? Well, in the US, they have allowed conservatives to frame the debate. So, they wind up responding to, and defending themselves against attacks. An example would be how conservatives define liberals as being 'unpatriotic' if they question the war in Iraq. Most conservatives (on this board) buy that argument and it's absurd.

Liberals in America need to stand up and define exactly what they believe, what they stand for. Right now they are allowing Conservatives to define who they are.

[PatrickHenry]

Really? Some reside on this board...


Really can you show me which liberals, along with quotes, that have said Homosexuals decide what is right or wrong with our society as a whole in every case?

This is a put up or shut up moment. Waiting for your proof.
I don't respond to insults...

[Elrathin]

I don't respond to insults...

Your whole post is one big insult. Still waiting for proof.

And how is put up or shut up an insult?

[PatrickHenry]

This thread is the first of a series.

It is an opportunity for Liberals to respond to the accusations made by their opponents.

Are you going to declare, Elrathin, that "shut up" is not insulting?

[Elrathin]

Are you going to declare, Elrathin, that "shut up" is not insulting?


Not really, unless you don't have proof, is that what you are saying?

[PatrickHenry]

I'll just hand it right back to you. STFU...

[Elrathin]

I'll just hand it right back to you. STFU...


I love it, you are the one making accusations against liberals and when you are asked to prove what you say, you can't. Typical. Congratulations on a Clay-type thread that backfired on you.

[moses2792796]

Elrathin's thought process here is the one all libs use to write off any attacks made against them, that way they don't have to find faults and improve their own ideology, because no matter what anyone says, they're always right and everyone else is wrong, this is the ailment of all modern politics.

[AnnEsthesia]

Of course, the same can be said for conservatives, moses.

[moses2792796]

Agreed, I think ClayBarham is proof of that, but then it begs the question, what is the point of a debate site if no one is willing to change their views?

[Scorpion]

I'll just hand it right back to you. STFU...


STFU?! That is more of a typical liberal retort which makes me wonder if you really are aligning with conservatives.

[AnnEsthesia]

Well, I think the level of debate here has gone dramatically down. All that is happening is people telling others how horrible they are, both on the forum and in PM. It is sad, really. This used to be a really fun forum. Now... I am wondering why I bother coming some days.

[Scorpion]

Well, I think the level of debate here has gone dramatically down. All that is happening is people telling others how horrible they are, both on the forum and in PM. It is sad, really. This used to be a really fun forum. Now... I am wondering why I bother coming some days.


Isn't it obvious? Your name, AnnEsthesia. You do what most liberals do, you put people to sleep.

*rolls eyes*, *rolls eyes again* (very fashionable to roll one's eyes)

[AnnEsthesia]

Have another drink Scorpion.

[preservanation]

Well, I think the level of debate here has gone dramatically down. All that is happening is people telling others how horrible they are, both on the forum and in PM. It is sad, really. This used to be a really fun forum. Now... I am wondering why I bother coming some days.
Should I get out my leather-covered sap, whack 'em, and then stomp and kick them around the head and neck with my shiny new jack-boots?

You're welcome, in advance.

[AnnEsthesia]

Why? Are you into BDSM or something, preserva?

[Scorpion]

Have another drink Scorpion.


Wow, great comeback. That's why I love your posts. Indignant, ignorant but oh so entertaining.

[AnnEsthesia]

Have another drink Scorpion.


Wow, great comeback. That's why I love your posts. Indignant, ignorant but oh so entertaining.


*chuckles* Right back atcha.

[preservanation]

Why? Are you into BDSM or something, preserva?

No, But I'm willing to learn.
If only I could find a good teacher....
oh, well, any volunteers....?

[Scorpion]

Have another drink Scorpion.


Wow, great comeback. That's why I love your posts. Indignant, ignorant but oh so entertaining.


*chuckles* Right back atcha.


You forgot to roll your eyes.

[preservanation]

Lib's don't Have to suck...it is all about "choice"

[AnnEsthesia]

Have another drink Scorpion.


Wow, great comeback. That's why I love your posts. Indignant, ignorant but oh so entertaining.


*chuckles* Right back atcha.


You forgot to roll your eyes.


Nah. You stopped being worth the effort back when you turned into a bitter and unfriendly person. ;)[hr]
Lib's don't Have to suck...it is all about "choice"


Why? Do cons *have* to suck? Interesting requirement. ;)

[Scorpion]

Have another drink Scorpion.


Wow, great comeback. That's why I love your posts. Indignant, ignorant but oh so entertaining.


*chuckles* Right back atcha.


You forgot to roll your eyes.


Nah. You stopped being worth the effort back when you turned into a bitter and unfriendly person. ;)[hr]
Lib's don't Have to suck...it is all about "choice"


Why? Do cons *have* to suck? Interesting requirement. ;)


Bitter and unfriendly? Me? Shocking. *Does a liberal eye roll*
How about informed of the failures of the left and committed to the progressive agenda of the right? How's that work for you?
*Liberally rolls eyes one last time*

[preservanation]

Last time I *rolled eyes* a bug flew in.
I blame Bush.

[AnnEsthesia]

Bitter and unfriendly? Me? Shocking. *Does a liberal eye roll*
How about informed of the failures of the left and committed to the progressive agenda of the right? How's that work for you?
*Liberally rolls eyes one last time*


Whatever makes you happy. Though hearing the same tune from you in every post does get a bit dull.

[Scorpion]

Last time I *rolled eyes* a bug flew in.
I blame Bush.


Pres:

The last time I checked rolling one's eyes was a uniquely liberal habit designed to demonstrate...ah, demonstrate...idiocy?

[moses2792796]

Good work proving my point people, maybe you should all head off and kill yourselves now as you seem uninterested in making an attempt at doing something constructive.

[AnnEsthesia]

moses, I would very much like to have a constructive discussion. However, when every time I post I am told how much I suck or have rude posts made to me, I just give up. Why bother putting together a long post when someone will just tromp in and tell you how ignorant, ugly, stupid or how much of a bitch you are?

[I Like Beer]

Should I get out my leather-covered sap, whack 'em, and then stomp and kick them around the head and neck with my shiny new jack-boots?

You're welcome, in advance.

Uh, Preserv, what's with all the weird sexual innuendo lately?

Actually, don't answer that question. Just, please, stop. Think of the children! ;)

[Scorpion]

moses, I would very much like to have a constructive discussion. However, when every time I post I am told how much I suck or have rude posts made to me, I just give up. Why bother putting together a long post when someone will just tromp in and tell you how ignorant, ugly, stupid or how much of a bitch you are?


AnnE. C'mon. When did I say that you sucked, called you ignorant, ugly, stupid and/or a bitch? You've got to stop this penchant for negative self critique.

Your the master (or mistress) of one line indignant liberal retorts. And very entertaining they are.

Anyways, enjoy your discourse with moses. I promise not to interfer.

[preservanation]

Should I get out my leather-covered sap, whack 'em, and then stomp and kick them around the head and neck with my shiny new jack-boots?

You're welcome, in advance.

Uh, Preserv, what's with all the weird sexual innuendo lately?

Actually, don't answer that question. Just, please, stop. Think of the children! ;)
STOP TAUNTING ME!:(
I'm very fragile.

[AnnEsthesia]

moses, I would very much like to have a constructive discussion. However, when every time I post I am told how much I suck or have rude posts made to me, I just give up. Why bother putting together a long post when someone will just tromp in and tell you how ignorant, ugly, stupid or how much of a bitch you are?


AnnE. C'mon. When did I say that you sucked, called you ignorant, ugly, stupid and/or a bitch? You've got to stop this penchant for negative self critique.

Your the master (or mistress) of one line indignant liberal retorts. And very entertaining they are.

Anyways, enjoy your discourse with moses. I promise not to interfer.


Um... try reading your own posts. You called me ignorant just a few posts ago. And no, it is not negative self-critique, since your opinion is about as close to reality as Roseanne Barr trying to squeeze into a size 4.

[preservanation]

Now all the squeezing????
Hey, I have to go.
Thanks "giving" is over...now we have to think about "getting", Thanks.

[Elrathin]

AnnE. C'mon. When did I say that you sucked, called you ignorant, ugly, stupid and/or a bitch? You've got to stop this penchant for negative self critique.


When you used blanket statements on all liberals.

[PatrickHenry]

All right, all right.

Sorry for setting off an insult fest, but I point at Elrathin as the real perp, heh.

Let me say this. Liberalism has an honorable history. The abolitionists were liberals, so were the Progressives of the early Twentieth Century. So were the Civil Rights workers and agitators of the fifties and sixties. So were those who noted and criminalized sexual harassment. The environmental movement is largely Liberal.

The Labor movement that brought us higher wages for workers and workplace safety and shorter work weeks is all about Liberals.

But the movement has gone too far and now sees government as the solution to every problem. It refuses to call for personal responsibility as foundational to civilization.

[Scorpion]

AnnE. C'mon. When did I say that you sucked, called you ignorant, ugly, stupid and/or a bitch? You've got to stop this penchant for negative self critique.


When you used blanket statements on all liberals.


How could my statement about liberals be considered a personal attack by AnnE? I've stated my political position just as you do. The problem is that liberals can dish it out but they can't take it.

[preservanation]

Libs get very bent out of shape when one does not use the term "some libs".

Conservatives are content to say I don't agree with a conservative who says so and so. Lib/Dems are not permitted to say they disagree with any other lib/Dem for fear of being brutally attacked as a traitor and labeled a neocon by their peers, (look what they do to trish). So we, are supposed to do that heavy lifting for them by qualifying every statement with "some" lib/Dems" so they wont get into trouble.

In essence we are expected to run cover for the chickens.
But conservatives are used to this...especially when it comes to national defence.

[AnnEsthesia]

AnnE. C'mon. When did I say that you sucked, called you ignorant, ugly, stupid and/or a bitch? You've got to stop this penchant for negative self critique.


When you used blanket statements on all liberals.


How could my statement about liberals be considered a personal attack by AnnE? I've stated my political position just as you do. The problem is that liberals can dish it out but they can't take it.


Ok, well I will give my own political perspective. Your posts are condescending and ignorant. If the mods want to move this, they will also have to move yours since I just changed up two words. ;)

Oh, and to the topic, I don't think all liberals or all conservatives suck any more than all of any other group sucks. I think blanket statements are wrong and that if you have to use one against another group, you are just showing how little you actually know about that group. It would be just as accurate to say all young white males are stuck up. Would it be accurate? No. But some young white males are... just as some liberals do suck... and some conservatives suck. :)

[preservanation]

True AnnE,
but we can make a movie titled "White Men Can't Jump", but try to make one titled "Black Men Can't read", and see where that gets you. Hate speech prison, that's where!
Hooo boy

[AnnEsthesia]

No, not hate speech prison. They would probably lose the black audience, that is for sure. And if a title of a movie was "White men have small willies", the movie would bomb too. ;) I was not aware that white men were upset about being stereotyped as unable to jump. Does the whole 'white men cannot dance' thing upset ya'll too? ;)

[Deadshot]

Thank God my wifes a LIBERAL!!!!:drool:

[preservanation]

No, not hate speech prison. They would probably lose the black audience, that is for sure. And if a title of a movie was "White men have small willies", the movie would bomb too. ;) I was not aware that white men were upset about being stereotyped as unable to jump. Does the whole 'white men cannot dance' thing upset ya'll too? ;)
You'll have to ask Woody Allen or Tucker Carlson about those.

Would "women can't throw or drive" bother you?
Probably.

This stuff doesn't bother most white men, we're so used to the double standard we've become anaesthetised to it.
I was just pointing it out...not complaining about it.
There is a difference.

[AnnEsthesia]

No, not hate speech prison. They would probably lose the black audience, that is for sure. And if a title of a movie was "White men have small willies", the movie would bomb too. ;) I was not aware that white men were upset about being stereotyped as unable to jump. Does the whole 'white men cannot dance' thing upset ya'll too? ;)
You'll have to ask Woody Allen or Tucker Carlson about those.

Would "women can't throw or drive" bother you?
Probably.

This stuff doesn't bother most white men, we're so used to the double standard we've become anaesthetised to it.
I was just pointing it out...not complaining about it.
There is a difference.


Not really, since I would know you would be wrong. ;) Generalizations like that are far more telling about the person saying them rather than about the subject. If the title of the movie was "Women Cannot Drive", I would find out what the movie was about. Sounds funny. ;)

[Elrathin]

Lib/Dems are not permitted to say they disagree with any other lib/Dem for fear of being brutally attacked as a traitor and labeled a neocon by their peers, (look what they do to trish).


That's funny I've disagreed with both Lily, ECW, and Zo on these boards many times and have said so just as they have done with me. More blanket statements by conservatives here and lies.

[Deadshot]

Lib/Dems are not permitted to say they disagree with any other lib/Dem for fear of being brutally attacked as a traitor and labeled a neocon by their peers, (look what they do to trish).


That's funny I've disagreed with both Lily, ECW, and Zo on these boards many times and have said so just as they have done with me. More blanket statements by conservatives here and lies.


Hence that famous Will Rogers quote "I am not a member of any organized party — I am a Democrat. "

We can disagree with each other, and never need be in lockstep to succeed.

[Phyxius]

Lib/Dems are not permitted to say they disagree with any other lib/Dem for fear of being brutally attacked as a traitor and labeled a neocon by their peers, (look what they do to trish).


That's funny I've disagreed with both Lily, ECW, and Zo on these boards many times and have said so just as they have done with me. More blanket statements by conservatives here and lies.


In fact, preservanation, if you'll look around, you'll find an active thread from the past couple of days where Ann and I are fundamentally opposed to each other's position. Funny thing is, you don't see us sniping at each other or calling names even over the topic we disagree on.

Strange how that works, isn't it?

[AnnEsthesia]

Lib/Dems are not permitted to say they disagree with any other lib/Dem for fear of being brutally attacked as a traitor and labeled a neocon by their peers, (look what they do to trish).


That's funny I've disagreed with both Lily, ECW, and Zo on these boards many times and have said so just as they have done with me. More blanket statements by conservatives here and lies.


In fact, preservanation, if you'll look around, you'll find an active thread from the past couple of days where Ann and I are fundamentally opposed to each other's position. Funny thing is, you don't see us sniping at each other or calling names even over the topic we disagree on.

Strange how that works, isn't it?


*hugs* Yep! We can completely disagree and still maintain decorum. ;)

[Truth_and_Power]

*hugs* Yep! We can completely disagree and still maintain decorum. ;)


No we can't, you ****
















/SARC!

[Scorpion]

*hugs* Yep! We can completely disagree and still maintain decorum. ;)


No we can't, you ****
















/SARC!


Hey T & P, easy. You'll get her all upset. She'll throw one of her famous "that's not fair" hissy fits and whine to the mods that you're an evil and cruel person.[hr]
Thank God my wifes a LIBERAL!!!!:drool:


Yeah, if she was a conservative she would have left you long ago.

[AnnEsthesia]

Bless your heart Scorpion. Bless your little heart.

[BoogyMan]

I really think threads like this are part of what divides us. I have my own views about liberals and quite honestly not all of those views are positive, but I would imagine that I could express such a view without the "liberals suck" type of mentality.

We can differ without this kind of rhetoric.

[Scorpion]

Bless your heart Scorpion. Bless your little heart.


Thanks AnnE. I love you too. Well, my watch says that it's time for lunch. Beating up the left gives me quite an appetite. :madlaugh:

[Alonzo]

I really think threads like this are part of what divides us. I have my own views about liberals and quite honestly not all of those views are positive, but I would imagine that I could express such a view without the "liberals suck" type of mentality.

We can differ without this kind of rhetoric.


Ohh, Boogy, you know you love liberals. Why else would you hang around with us so much?

And let's not forget who invented the internet you love soo much. :D

[Scorpion]

I really think threads like this are part of what divides us. I have my own views about liberals and quite honestly not all of those views are positive, but I would imagine that I could express such a view without the "liberals suck" type of mentality.

We can differ without this kind of rhetoric.


You're right Boogie. I'd love to engage in friendly debate. But when I present a conservative viewpoint in a reasonable manner what do I get in return? Swarms of insults and generalizations about my conservative viewpoints from the left. Then the liberals have the audacity to cry foul and label me as a drunk and evil when I present a response which they take to be critical of the left. You'll notice that I don't spew foul language nor do I throw a fit when my position is challenged. Indeed, I keep a sense of humor and I am civil but pointed.

Unfortunately we have those who apply a double standard towards political debate on this forum. "Don't do as I do, do as I say." Then they whine when the debate doesn't go their way. Astonishing duplicity to be sure.

[AnnEsthesia]

Thanks Boogy. You are usually a very class act, even if I often disagree with you.

[PatrickHenry]

Dang! Can we at least TRY to keep this thread on topic?

I never said all Liberals suck...the discussion is WHY some do...

So all this bashing back and forth is counterproductive and not what we need to be discussing.

See, I dislike conservatives, too. They suck, too.

But this thread is about why some of us disagree with some of the liberal political positions.

Can we at least TRY to stick to the topic?

[Truth_and_Power]

And let's not forget who invented the internet you love soo much. :D


State-paid liberal college professors with tenure.

[Scorpion]

Dang! Can we at least TRY to keep this thread on topic?

I never said all Liberals suck...the discussion is WHY some do...

So all this bashing back and forth is counterproductive and not what we need to be discussing.

See, I dislike conservatives, too. They suck, too.

But this thread is about why some of us disagree with some of the liberal political positions.

Can we at least TRY to stick to the topic?


The title you gave this thread is nothing short of inflammatory so let's lay blame where it belongs, shall we?

"Why Liberals Suck." I'm not a fan of liberals in general and certainly a few here in particular, but I draw the line at picking fights. I prefer spirited debate. The title which you gave this thread is exactly that, an invitation to a fight. Frankly, I can't understand why the moderators let that title stand in the first place.

How about "Why I disagree with some liberals?" Sounds a bit less offensive and it invites debate instead of the incivility common to some on the left.

PH, want to guess at who really sucks in this matter?[hr]

And let's not forget who invented the internet you love soo much. :D


State-paid liberal college professors with tenure.


Funded in large part by conservative business.

[lily]

Unfortunately we have those who apply a double standard towards political debate on this forum. "Don't do as I do, do as I say." Then they whine when the debate doesn't go their way. Astonishing duplicity to be sure.


Reading this thread and being around for a while I think I can honestly say that almost every single person here, be they liberal or conservative tend to repsond in the same way they are addressed.[hr]

Frankly, I can't understand why the moderators let that title stand in the first place.

Well the main reason is we don't go for censorship and the next would be that for most of the 8 pages of this debate, something has been learned and discussed.

[Scorpion]

Unfortunately we have those who apply a double standard towards political debate on this forum. "Don't do as I do, do as I say." Then they whine when the debate doesn't go their way. Astonishing duplicity to be sure.


Reading this thread and being around for a while I think I can honestly say that almost every single person here, be they liberal or conservative tend to repsond in the same way they are addressed.[hr]

Frankly, I can't understand why the moderators let that title stand in the first place.

Well the main reason is we don't go for censorship and the next would be that for most of the 8 pages of this debate, something has been learned and discussed.


Lily, I'm only offering my opinion and not looking to debate forum behavior. Thanks for the candor of your response.

[lily]

;) anytime.

[PatrickHenry]

The title you gave this thread is nothing short of inflammatory so let's lay blame where it belongs, shall we?

"Why Liberals Suck." I'm not a fan of liberals in general and certainly a few here in particular, but I draw the line at picking fights. I prefer spirited debate. The title which you gave this thread is exactly that, an invitation to a fight. Frankly, I can't understand why the moderators let that title stand in the first place.

How about "Why I disagree with some liberals?" Sounds a bit less offensive and it invites debate instead of the incivility common to some on the left.

PH, want to guess at who really sucks in this matter?[hr]

Funded in large part by conservative business.

Well!

I'm glad you got canned, Mr Reasonable! You never pick fights...riiight!

It's not an inflammatory title, it's catchy!

And I have had a lot of fun with it!

Now for my sequel thread! :ecstatic:

[dgun]

I don't deny that modern American liberals suck in many, many ways.

It's true.

Another truth is that modern American conservatives suck even more. I wish I cared enough about this thread to make a list of the ways in which they suck, but I have made these lists so many times I just can't get up the gumption to do it again.

But I will mention this one thing:

Patrick Henry, you mentioned that liberals think that the government is the solution to all problems. They do have that issue, I agree. But what is egregious about conservatives wielding this common criticism against liberals, is that conservatives are just as bad, if not far freaking worse, at the very exact thing.

How many times has some fundamentalist nut job conservative advocated the banning of something? Banning things is like a hobby amongst conservatives.

The whole issue is just an example of the small government myth amongst conservatives. Conservatives claim to want small government. But it is not true. Conservatives are all for giving law enforcement a crap load of power, even if it violates the constitution. Conservatives are all for blowing tax money up a whale's ass, just on different things than liberals. Conservatives are all for putting their trust and faith in mommy government to do such deeply personal things as leading their children in prayer (prayer in public schools).

The thing is, it's not about principals with conservatives, as they so desperately want to believe about themselves. It's about taxes, and their deep lusty desire to pay as little as possible. And let me say, nothing wrong with hating taxes. I hate them myself. But don't sling a bunch of bullshit around as if it's about something more than just tax policy. It's not.

So, in summary, American conservatives are ethnocentric fundamentalist tax and spend liberals who hate poor people and minorities.

[Elrathin]

Actually I know we all go back and forth on the whole liberal and conservative thing, but in reality, they need to be separated even further due to politicians.

A liberal politician is not the same as a liberal.
A conservative politician is not the same as a conservative.

These are of course just my opinion, but looking at our leaders, they definately do not represent me or my values, they represent themselves and whomever pays them more in perks.

[PatrickHenry]

I don't deny that modern American liberals suck in many, many ways.

It's true.

Another truth is that modern American conservatives suck even more. I wish I cared enough about this thread to make a list of the ways in which they suck, but I have made these lists so many times I just can't get up the gumption to do it again.

But I will mention this one thing:

Patrick Henry, you mentioned that liberals think that the government is the solution to all problems. They do have that issue, I agree. But what is egregious about conservatives wielding this common criticism against liberals, is that conservatives are just as bad, if not far freaking worse, at the very exact thing.

How many times has some fundamentalist nut job conservative advocated the banning of something? Banning things is like a hobby amongst conservatives.

The whole issue is just an example of the small government myth amongst conservatives. Conservatives claim to want small government. But it is not true. Conservatives are all for giving law enforcement a crap load of power, even if it violates the constitution. Conservatives are all for blowing tax money up a whale's ass, just on different things than liberals. Conservatives are all for putting their trust and faith in mommy government to do such deeply personal things as leading their children in prayer (prayer in public schools).

The thing is, it's not about principals with conservatives, as they so desperately want to believe about themselves. It's about taxes, and their deep lusty desire to pay as little as possible. And let me say, nothing wrong with hating taxes. I hate them myself. But don't sling a bunch of bullshit around as if it's about something more than just tax policy. It's not.

So, in summary, American conservatives are ethnocentric fundamentalist tax and spend liberals who hate poor people and minorities.

Please visit this thread... a sequel to the Libs suck thread: http://www.democracyforums.com/showthread.php?t=11911

[suedanim]

I really think threads like this are part of what divides us. I have my own views about liberals and quite honestly not all of those views are positive, but I would imagine that I could express such a view without the "liberals suck" type of mentality.

We can differ without this kind of rhetoric.

hmmm... maybe I'll weigh in on this topic? Scary tho...

While I am in huge agreement with Patrick on many things, I now find myself in... shock!! agreement with boogeyman.

I dont much like being defined. I change my mind sometimes. I consider it unfair though to say liberals suck based on a just a few criteria such as.. tax and spend or that government and more government can solve all the ills of the world, when if compared to the current GOP trend to borrow and spend with more government oversight of Americans in US history ie the Patriot Act, warrantless surveillance and numerous signings to circumvent the law, giving the CIC great power. Therefore, a reasonable response to that accusation, if concerned about ALL Americans Constitutional rights and sound fiscal responsibility would HAVE to be that liberals have been FAR more responsible and ethical. :peace: In fact, its liberals who have fought against warrantless surveillance and have tried to deny extensions to the Patriot Act!

I am labeled by most as a flaming liberal. Pro gay rights, pro choice, pro affirmative action with modifications, pro voting rights, anti death penalty, believe public education should be equally funded throughout the US regardless of neighborhood or tax revenues and that there should be some form of public higher education after HS, believe each human being regardless of socioeconomic position should receive equal, as much as is possible, medical care. Housing must be affordable without predatory lending to vulnerable, desperate buyers.

I believe government should and CAN do good, even great things for its people. It can and should rescue and give aid to people after and during disasters, it can and should aid its sick and poor and it can and should insure all people regardless of sex, sexual orientation, ethnicity, race, religion or nationality receive the right equally to pursue life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. It is not asking too much from government to guarantee that all Americans receive these rights equally. If this makes me a liberal, I proudly wear the label!

[Pookie]

Perhaps both sides, as people often do, don't like things they see in themselves, and both sides may be more alike than they know.
Familiarity breeds contempt, I think.
Purrs,
Pookie

[Sublimating]

You know who really sucks?...Cool-aid drinkers who buy all the BS that either paty feed them.

People who think that America would be better of if one of the two party's ran the country forever.

This country is great not because of liberals or conservatives it is great because of liberals and conservatives.

[DamnYankee]

An American liberal is the person that wants something, for nothing. In other words, they always have their hand out there saying, "gimmee." They also can't think for themselves.

A "Kook Leftist" are the ones (Americans) you see with 50 bumper stickers all over the cars. The so-called "black helicopter" crowd. The "Kook leftists fringe" are Americans that think they can save the world if they hug just one more tree, or perhaps, smoke one more joint, or if they can just convince people that with love they can save the world.

A "Euro" is a leftist that resides in Europe. A Euro resides in a country that pretends to be our ally, but really isn't. Euros like that preach to Americans. To them Americans are "uncivilized." Never mind the fact that the last two world wars were started in Europe. Euros also like to call Americans war mongers. Then beg for American help when their collective asses are in the sling.

[Pookie]

Well, I am a liberal. I don't fit into any of those criteria, DY, and please stop lumping us together under one stereotype.
That is annoying. I pay my own way. I rely on nothing from the government or anyone else.
I am also perfectly capable of thinking for myself and I do. Check my posts.
Stop stereotyping people. It's wrong.
Purrs,
Pookie

[Troubadour]

Heh. Catchy title, huh?

No, but appropriate to the post's level of intelligence.


OK, so I don't think every liberal idea sucks.
Just most of 'em.


Just the ones that benefit someone else, right?


Got a problem? Liberal Answer: MORE GOVERNMENT!


To deny that government is inherently evil, corrupt, or incompetent is not to insist that it is inherently good, honest, and functional - and only political movements that [b]are[/i] inherently evil, corrupt, and incompetent would promulgate that notion to minimize their own shame and infamy.


Another reason liberals suck: They think it's Government money, so don't worry about spending it! Where do they think it comes from?


Conservatives think it comes from China.


Furthermore, they are touchingly sympathetic to criminals.


Conservatives will never accept that people they don't like have rights, and the strength of a republic is measured by how well it ignores the opinions of people who think like that.


They say, "Let's don't execute anyone! That might hurt them!"


You trust the government to justly distribute death, but not money...interesting.


Liberals think that homos have the right to redefine what's right and wrong.


"Right" and "wrong" are in how you treat people, not in how closely your private life reflects their opinions or sensibilities. Calling people "homos" is not acceptable in adult society.


Most every liberal I know thinks it's a good idea to kill a baby in the womb if momma doesn't want it.


Another example of conservatives creating their own reality with words. Just because you call a blastocyst a "baby" doesn't endow it with human consciousness, any more than calling a torture victim a "terrorist" removes that fundamental humanity. Conservatives are monsters precisely because of their ability to see nothing where a human stands by simply denying it, or see an "innocent little baby" in a two-inch blob of unconscious jelly because their televangelist says so. The right is pure, unmitigated evil, and true to form, sees itself as pure, unmitigated good even as the blood runs through its fingers - even as the screams of its victims still echo.


They think your property belongs to the government and therefore you should pay taxes on it and let the government confiscate it


That's how a 5-year-old would characterize taxation. Adults understand that they rely on a number of interdependent systems for their prosperity, and know that it's crucial to support them. But anyone who is not convinced they owe anything to this country is welcome to leave at any time and relocate somewhere with lower taxes - like Cameroon or Bangladesh.


or tell you what you can or can't do with it for any reason whatsoever.


That would be conservatives - you know, the ones who are torturing people, spying on everyone, and trying to subsidize their religions at other people's expense. Liberals defend everyone's rights, including the rights of degenerate conservative ingrates who don't deserve to live in this country.

[ViolaLee]

An American liberal is the person that wants something, for nothing. In other words, they always have their hand out there saying, "gimmee." They also can't think for themselves.

bulls hit. It's the neocons/Republicans/conservatives who have tried to make liberal a bad word. But it didn't work. We know what liberal really means.

This is an American Liberal. I'm with Suedamin here. Good post Sue.

Pro gay rights, pro choice, pro affirmative action with modifications, pro voting rights, anti death penalty, believe public education should be equally funded throughout the US regardless of neighborhood or tax revenues and that there should be some form of public higher education after HS, believe each human being regardless of socioeconomic position should receive equal, as much as is possible, medical care. Housing must be affordable without predatory lending to vulnerable, desperate buyers.

I believe government should and CAN do good, even great things for its people. It can and should rescue and give aid to people after and during disasters, it can and should aid its sick and poor and it can and should insure all people regardless of sex, sexual orientation, ethnicity, race, religion or nationality receive the right equally to pursue life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. It is not asking too much from government to guarantee that all Americans receive these rights equally. If this makes me a liberal, I proudly wear the label!

[suedanim]

Too right Pookie. btw.. the only people I ever heard talk about black helicopters were rightwing extremists during the Clinton 90's. Oh yeah, they were certain there were sharpshooters in helicopters to shoot transponders in our bodies so the government could track us or it was in vaccines... yeah, boy, thats the ticket! Oh how the militias and rightwing white supremacy groups flourished.... sure Clinton was Satan and Y2K would end the world.

Just goes to show you cannot stereotype. That will always come back to bite you in the ass!

I worked my whole life... as do most of the liberals I know... rich, poor and middle class, served their country in war too... AND most liberals are devout practicing Christians TOO... I know, I know GOPers would have everyone believe liberals are all atheists. Not true... Think about it... over 50 million liberals vote Democrat. Of that number very few are less than hardworking, taxpaying patriotic, gunloving Americans, while the majority of poor, unemployed, disabled, elderly GOPers depend on us liberals to make sure their children are fed and get medical care.

Odd how so many poor GOPers vote Republican on one or two issues, but need us liberals to insure the government doesn't abandon those who are in need.

Oh no.. the majority of people on welfare are not black and Democrat but white, rural, Republicans who think Bush and McCain are the shiznit for wanting them damn A-RABS out of the way and oppose abortion (even if McCain waffles around on that one). So... the guy most likely with his hand out is a white republican voting meth addict in Pedunk, Kentucky and Backwater, Arkansas OR... white collar corporate rich white guys!!! The rest of us WORK or did work.

Whenever some people start describing liberals I always have to laugh cause not only are they often sadly misinformed, but act as though liberals cannot possibly be as patriotic as they.

Get it through your heads... liberals love America as much as any conservative, fight in war, sacrifice, vote, work hard, pay taxes. They are cops, pastors, priests, rabbis, teachers, doctors, cabbies, dog catchers, the cable guy, mailmen, the rescue workers who searched the flood waters of NO for bodies of the dead and rebuilding NO too and young men and women fighting, dying and catastrophically wounded in Iraq and Afghanistan .... right alongside GOPers... who sometimes are ......conservative.

[dgun]

Please visit this thread... a sequel to the Libs suck thread

And should we expect a thread about libertarians also? lol.

[NoMoreDems-Reps]

So Liberals and Conservative Suck ? Oh that's news to me !

And now that we got that out of the way what should we do about it .........?

Oh I know let's vote them both back in to power so they can continue screwing things
up for the US Taxpayers!!!!

I mean I haven't learned over the last few decades that the LIBS&CONS are going to
continue giving the American people the short end of the stick, Put us in debt,
blame the other party for things not working, and give themselves a pay raise
because they think they are doing such a great job!!!!!!!!!!!

The only reason I can find to respect the REPS&DEMS is that no matter what
crazy BS the pull on America the (Majority, REP&DEMS) American voters continue to
vote these same people and parties back in to power !!!

So :
1) The Reps&Dems are smart or..
2) The American Voters must be dumb.

And I real am not impressed by the Mental prowis of the either parties.

[apdst]

This is why Liberals suck:

“The truth is, in order to get things like universal health care and a revamped education system, then someone is going to have to give up a piece of their pie so that someone else can have more.” -Michele Obama.

[Pookie]

Some people really do believe that more affluent Americans should give up something to spread the wealth, so to speak.
I think that's not exactly a good idea. You bust your butt for what you have, you deserve to keep it. Personally, I think we pay enough for others who take advantage of the system and who don't even try to live without government help.
Purrs,
Pookie

[Scribbler1]

And should we expect a thread about libertarians also? lol.That would be interesting, but an awfully short thread. With ZERO political power, you aren't likely to find a lot of things they do wrong.

[dgun]

but an awfully short thread. With ZERO political power, you aren't likely to find a lot of things they do wrong.

Yes, but we could discuss their ideology.

Who wants to privatize roads, lol? Patrick Henry? Anyone?

[PatrickHenry]

There are valid functions of government and invalid ones.

I think public roadways (paid by user fees) are one of government's worthy purposes.

Anyone who thinks that they are contributing to the debate of why Liberals suck by dumping on Conservatives is confused. Just because Conservatives suck doesn't mean that Liberals don't!

This thread is about why LIBERALS suck...or don't suck...

Conservatives are being debated in another thread, Troubador.

[NoMoreDems-Reps]

Yes, but we could discuss their ideology.


That still would be almost useless. There’s a huge difference between a parties "Ideology"
and the "Actions" of that party. If you read either of the REPS or DEMS mission
statement (Their "Ideology" ) it will sound great and you would assume that if
that part ran America we would all be happy as clams !
But when you see what those two parties have done "WHILE" in power you have to
realize that hiding behind a good ideology does not make good leader ship.

[heyliberal]

Liberals are the true Anti-American, they are more worried about the welfare of our enemies then our troops.

[PatrickHenry]

Liberals are the true Anti-American, they are more worried about the welfare of our enemies then our troops.That's a lie.

But liberals still suck for their other views.

[preservanation]

Wow, that was fun...read all 11 pgs. Good times, goooood times.

Some Libs suck because they want to "Change America"
into a sucky Gov run socialist society ruled by like minded elites (whom they fantastically believe will somehow be themselves) which will soon crumble under its own weight.
Not good.
The piper is leading them right off the cliff with his soothing music...
Guess what?
I ain't following.
Get ready for the fight of your lives!

[brien]

We need better terms to describe political viewpoints. These Liberal / Conservative labels are banal and stereotypical. We really need to define political viewpoints by political ideological ideas and not jingoistic labels.

PH does a good job of stirring up your passions.

[suedanim]

Wow, that was fun...read all 11 pgs. Good times, goooood times.

Some Libs suck because they want to "Change America"

...and Bushco already changed America..

into a sucky Gov run socialist society ruled by like minded elites (whom they fantastically believe will somehow be themselves) which will soon crumble under its own weight.

.. as though it isn't already a sucky gov run war machine ruled by an elite group of special interest group neocons, neither conservative, nor interested in the greater good for the United States.

Not good.

No, not perfect, but a better shot at doing something positive for the quality of life for Americans. Lets save our own damn democracy... and stop ramming something resembling it down the throats of people who don't REALLY want it.

The piper is leading them right off the cliff with his soothing music...

..and his name, drum roll please... George W. Bush... for the last 8 years.

Guess what?

Bye, bye Miss American Pie...! The United States is forever changed since George and Dick took a dump on Americans and the Geneva Conventions, the Constitution, the UN and NATO.

I ain't following.

You already did.

Get ready for the fight of your lives!

Do you think expecting equal and fair education, justice, adequate food and shelter and medical care, regardless of race, sex, sexual orientation or location should be a right for every American?