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ClayBarham
11-17-2007, 05:22 PM
How do you formulate a political position? What is our source of beliefs and ideological loyalties? It starts with how we see our self and others. Politics is all about society of people of all kinds coexisting with each other. How we perceive others leads to how we behave with each other. As children, we learn from our teachers, our environment, and the actions of people around us. We form opinions as to our personal worth and the value of others from our early life experiences. It always begins at the beginning.

If raised in a healthy family, in a good environment, we learn we are good and everyone else is too. You are unique, they are unique, and you can all get along fine in society, playing, living and working together. That is a healthy view. Raised in a dysfunctional family, or bad environment, may cause us to believe we are no damn good and neither is anyone else. People with that “no damn good” view take what they can before others do. With these people, society needs defending with laws, police, courts and jails.

That still leaves two more views. Some children are led to be self-centered, arrogant, seeing self as good, great, and heroic, and everyone else as pond scum, less than worthwhile. They think others need their guidance. The last view is the child that is taught that he or she is less than adequate, believing there are more worthy people out there to follow. They become the followers of the good, great and heroic, self-centered, arrogant people, the great American liberals, who want only to take charge.

America began with most people thinking of themselves as good, worthy, excited about their future opportunities ahead, and saw others as equally good and excited. They had little choice, raised in a pioneer setting. They created, invented, pursued their ideas and dreams, and built great communities reflecting effort and accomplishments and resulting prosperity never known elsewhere. They left the few, who thought of themselves as a noble minority and their growing followers, behind in their dust. The nation grew from the efforts and ingenuity of the healthy ones who, for the most part, became prosperous through individual freedom. These people, the shakers and not the takers, built America.

The arrogant collected their followers and began to challenge the free and prosperous to take what they created, share enough of it with those unable to keep up, to keep their support, and enrich themselves. They grew in numbers and spread across the nation as a political party to entice those who could not and would not help themselves, until they could intervene in the private market affairs of those who preferred freedom to servitude. The takers are exceeding the givers and doers. Tax eaters are outnumbering taxpayers.

More youngsters are taking on the view that they are not as worthy as those few who profess to have great heroic leadership qualities. They are willing to follow liberals’ dictates and prescriptions for a better life, because no one tells them it could be better following their own dreams, visions and aspirations. Schools no longer teach the Horatio Alger ideals of standing on your own two feet and pursuing your own interests, skills, talents and aspirations, as long as you contribute and not harm. Instead, they teach the youngsters that community interests stand above self-interests, and those who have should give to those who have not. As more and more families are dysfunctional, depressed, and alcoholic or drugged as defenses against living life on their own feet, the numbers of children who will accept a position as worthless followers’ increases. Their view of the worthiness of self and others is so depressed they do not care about possibilities and opportunities to be worthy, happy and prosperous.

The Democrats have cornered that part of society who sees themselves as less worthy, prompted to envy the successes of others. Those who believe themselves superior, the modern American liberals, lead and feed their anger as they seek to change America to suit their beliefs and devour the Goose that lays the golden eggs. The Press, Hollywood, Television and the schools have worked hard to support these liberal views. Goodnight, America.

Elrathin
11-17-2007, 08:12 PM
Summary as usual for those that have Clay on Ignore. Democrats Bad, Republicans Good. Same ol Same ol.

underdawg
11-17-2007, 09:29 PM
"Some children are led to be self-centered, arrogant, seeing self as good, great, and heroic, and everyone else as pond scum, less than worthwhile. They think others need their guidance. "

I think Cheney and Bush are examples of Clay's thrid type of person.

Scorpion
11-17-2007, 09:44 PM
"Some children are led to be self-centered, arrogant, seeing self as good, great, and heroic, and everyone else as pond scum, less than worthwhile. They think others need their guidance. "


Sounds like you're describing Hillary Clinton.

Northpaw77
11-18-2007, 12:01 AM
"Some children are led to be self-centered, arrogant, seeing self as good, great, and heroic, and everyone else as pond scum, less than worthwhile. They think others need their guidance. "


Sounds like you're describing Hillary Clinton.


Never have truer words been spoken.

AnnEsthesia
11-18-2007, 12:07 AM
Am I the only one sick to death of Clay's partisan sniping and these stupid as all hell threads intended to stir up shit that will just widen the divide between the cons and the liberals here?

Scorpion
11-18-2007, 12:50 AM
Am I the only one sick to death of Clay's partisan sniping and these stupid as all hell threads intended to stir up shit that will just widen the divide between the cons and the liberals here?


Rather unusual coming from the chief cheerleader for the liberals. Sort of the pot calling the kettle black.

moses2792796
11-18-2007, 12:58 AM
Perhaps leaders aren't better in some linear sense of measurement, but simply possess the qualities necessary to ensure the continuing function of a complex organism (society). Politics by its very nature is a material function. The only true systems of government must stem from higher principles. That is why virtually all governments in modern times have failed, because these principles are long since forgotten.

On a side note Clay, you seem to be against the parent figure type of authority, which I'll have you know I am as well, and yet you claim to be a christian. The christian God represents the utimate parent figure does it not? Unlike many religions there is a clear 'do what you're told or you will be punished' type of mentality.

AnnEsthesia
11-18-2007, 01:10 AM
Am I the only one sick to death of Clay's partisan sniping and these stupid as all hell threads intended to stir up shit that will just widen the divide between the cons and the liberals here?


Rather unusual coming from the chief cheerleader for the liberals. Sort of the pot calling the kettle black.


Really? Show me where I have cheerleadered any of the liberal leadership. I will wait a while, since you will not find it. Oh, and you might want to note that I am more conservative on some issues that the conservatives here.. but yea, thanks for trying to place me in a nice and neatly labeled box. You are wrong, but oh well.

Please Mike, show me where I have posted how all conservatives are evil. Please show me where I have posted about how all liberals are saints. You will not find it because I believe the world is shades of gray.

But why don't you tell us again about how all liberals are un-american and all conservatives are the heros who protect us from ourselves. *rolls eyes*

Scorpion
11-18-2007, 01:19 AM
But why don't you tell us again about how all liberals are un-american and all conservatives are the heros who protect us from ourselves. *rolls eyes*


I would but modesty prevents me from repeating myself. My post on the other thread is there for anyone to read. Enjoy all.

AnnEsthesia
11-18-2007, 01:23 AM
You mean the one where you only quoted part of what I said and left out the bit that makes your point a whole lot weaker? Again, this country was founded by people who fought the status quo. If you now choose to label those people as 'unamerican', I find that sad.

Elrathin
11-18-2007, 01:54 AM
Rather unusual coming from the chief cheerleader for the liberals. Sort of the pot calling the kettle black.


Now Scorpion are you really telling me Clay has a point with his dems suck republicans rule rhetoric?

Alonzo
11-18-2007, 03:31 AM
Clay, it's nice that your introductions are all different. But it's extremely boring when you seem to end every single thread the same way.

ClayBarham
11-18-2007, 04:27 PM
Ah, but you keep on torturing yourself by coming back again and again. Why is that?

Buck Laser
11-18-2007, 09:21 PM
Ah, but you keep on torturing yourself by coming back again and again. Why is that?


Clay, it's prolly because Zo is an administrator, and he has a duty to keep up with what posters are saying. I happen to be a pretty fast reader, and if you've dreamed up a title that tittillates me, I'm likely to take a look. But I only bother replying when your lies are utterly egregious.

ClayBarham
11-18-2007, 09:36 PM
And, anything dealing with thinking certainly is.....

crimzonsol
11-18-2007, 09:44 PM
An intresting read until you try to connect social issues with political stances, but none the less intresting.

Alonzo
11-18-2007, 10:17 PM
Ah, but you keep on torturing yourself by coming back again and again. Why is that?


Honestly Clay I actually read very few of your threads, and when I do I read a bit of the beginning and then the last paragraph or so. That's what I did here. I read the first and last paragraphs, and ignored the rest. Most of the time though I ignore your threads entirely, or I just read a few responses and ignore your original post

Buck Laser
11-18-2007, 10:52 PM
And, anything dealing with thinking certainly is.....

Show me something with real thought in it, and I'll certainly read it. But I'm gettin' kinda tired of waiting.

moses2792796
11-19-2007, 03:31 AM
ClayBarham has an imperialistic belief system, he wants everyone to think the same as he does. That is why he continually repeats himself, because if people keep reading the same thing in different formats, it can influence them. I think he should be more open to new ideas, my belief system is constantly growing as I gather more knowledge, I have my doubts about whether Clay has shifted ideology at all in a very long time.

AnnEsthesia
11-19-2007, 12:00 PM
And, anything dealing with thinking certainly is.....

Show me something with real thought in it, and I'll certainly read it. But I'm gettin' kinda tired of waiting.


He could, but it probably would be one of his plagiarized pieces. ;)[hr]
ClayBarham has an imperialistic belief system, he wants everyone to think the same as he does. That is why he continually repeats himself, because if people keep reading the same thing in different formats, it can influence them. I think he should be more open to new ideas, my belief system is constantly growing as I gather more knowledge, I have my doubts about whether Clay has shifted ideology at all in a very long time.


Clay is the perfect tool of the Bush government. He (and they) believe that if they say the same thing often enough and with enough conviction, it will eventually become true.

Alonzo
11-19-2007, 01:24 PM
He could, but it probably would be one of his plagiarized pieces. Wink

The thing that concerns me is that, assuming he is truly clay barham, he's written multiple books. For someone who thinks plagiarism is such a trivial issue I wonder how many ideas and passages in his books that should be cited actually are.

ClayBarham
11-19-2007, 03:39 PM
Regardless of where you believe I source my stuff, keep in mind what Leonard Read once said; "I get my milk from many cows, but I make my own butter." As to Bush, I really don't think he would appreciate anything I say, as, if it became known, he's really one of your group, not mine.

AnnEsthesia
11-19-2007, 03:50 PM
ROFL. Yes. You are now going to call Bush a liberal because you know he is the downfall of your party.

ClayBarham
11-19-2007, 06:09 PM
True, he has given the GOP a black eye, as so many other RINOs have who simply want to dine at the table with all you elite on the left. They are afraid of being left behind, and all I have to say to them is good riddance if they can be squeezed out of the GOP.

AnnEsthesia
11-19-2007, 06:18 PM
Oh yes, Bush has done so much to appease the left. That is why the left is so thrilled with his administration. What a flipping crock. Do you even believe this shit?

ClayBarham
11-21-2007, 07:01 PM
Your problem seems to stem from believing your own MoveOn.org propaganda aimed at the weak of mind and less educated. Look past that barrier of nonsense and you'll feel better. It may be hard for you, if your feelings are locked up in a world of error, to look past the propaganda. Try to understand what your opponents believe and why they believe that way and you will be a more convincing representative of your side, assuming you hold fast to your side. If you are afraid to look, then I understand, but tossing invectives and bombs is never attractive, only repulsive. I have always been a conservative, but I spent many years reading and trying to understand what those on the other side believe and why they believe as they do. I do not condemn them because of their beliefs, as they think they are noble and caring. I look at the proofs on my side as it relates to the history and growth of America, and I cannot help believing in individual freedom. I could be wrong, and maybe everyone should be living in a gulag with dictators.

underdawg
11-21-2007, 11:51 PM
True, he has given the GOP a black eye, as so many other RINOs have who simply want to dine at the table with all you elite on the left. They are afraid of being left behind, and all I have to say to them is good riddance if they can be squeezed out of the GOP.


The term "RINO" was used an awfully lot by ChessWarsNow. You both have the same pattern of doing things and use the same flawed logic. Do you both hang out with each other?

Pookie
11-22-2007, 12:48 AM
I just see Clay Barham's post back there as another example of why there is such a wide gulf between liberal and conservative, Democrat and Republican. The name-calling and put-downs eventually seep into peoples' brains and their minds become so polluted with partisanship and hate that no one can seem to meet in the middle with common sense, decency, and civility toward each other.
I think the truly smart, healthy ones are those who look for solutions without bothering to put people down and those who understand that answers only come with the sincere exchange of ideals, instead of name-calling.
Just my opinion.
And everyone has one, Clay Barham included.
I find it interesting that he's never met me in person, does not know me, knows almost nothing about me, yet he calls me arrogant.
I feel sorry for folks who have to put others down like that to make themselves feel better.
Purrs,

ClayBarham
11-22-2007, 05:19 PM
Pookie, I hope you had a chance to look at my site and judge for yourself, without the influence of detractors, of my position. Also, opinions are like noses, everyone has one (this was a modified version of one of Clint Eastwood's one liners).