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BoogyMan
11-02-2007, 05:38 PM
Interesting point being made about how this push to give illegal aliens drivers licenses coupled with the motor voter act could spell trouble.


Source: Link (http://www.opinionjournal.com/diary/?id=110010814)

Sen. Hillary Clinton was asked during a debate this week if she supported New York Gov. Eliot Spitzer's plan to give driver's licenses to illegal immigrants. At first she seemed to endorse the idea, then claimed, "I did not say that it should be done, but I certainly recognize why Governor Spitzer is trying to do it."

The next day she took a firmer stand (sort of) by offering general support for Gov. Spitzer's approach, but adding that she hadn't studied his specific plan. She should, and so should the rest of us. It stops just short of being an engraved invitation for people to commit voter fraud.

The background here is the National Voter Registration Act, commonly known as "Motor Voter," that President Bill Clinton signed into law in 1993. It required all states to offer voter registration to anyone getting a driver's license. One simply fills out a form and checks a box stating he is a citizen; he is then registered and in most states does not have to show any ID to vote.

But no one checks if the person registering to vote is indeed a citizen. That greatly concerns New York election officials, who processed 245,000 voter registrations at DMV offices last year. "It would be [tough to catch] if someone wanted to . . . get a number of people registered who aren't citizens and went ahead and got them drivers' licenses," says Lee Daghlian, spokesman for New York's Board of Elections. Assemblywoman Ginny Fields, a Long Island Democrat, warns that the state's "Board of Elections has no voter police" and that the state probably has upwards of 500,000 illegal immigrants old enough to drive.

The potential for fraud is not trivial, as federal privacy laws prevent cross-checking voter registration rolls with immigration records. Nevertheless, a 1997 Congressional investigation found that "4,023 illegal voters possibly cast ballots in [a] disputed House election" in California. After 9/11, the Justice Department found that eight of the 19 hijackers were registered to vote.

Under pressure from liberal groups, some states have even abandoned the requirement that people check a citizenship box to be put on the voter rolls. Iowa has told local registrars they should register people even if they leave the citizenship box blank. Maryland officials wave illegal immigrants through the registration process, prompting a Justice Department letter warning they may be helping people violate federal law.

Gov. Spitzer is treading perilously close to that. Despite a tactical retreat this week--he says he will only give illegal immigrants a license that isn't valid for airplane travel and entering federal buildings--Mr. Spitzer has taken active steps to obliterate any distinctions between licenses given to citizens and non-citizens.

In a memo last Sept. 24, he ordered county clerks to remove the visa expiration date and "temporary visitor" stamp on licenses issued to non-citizens who are legally in the country. A Spitzer spokeswoman explained the change was made because the "temporary" label was "pejorative," given that some visitors might eventually stay in the U.S. Under fire, Mr. Spitzer backed down this week, delaying the cancellation of the "temporary visitor" stamps through the end of next year.

But he has not retreated from another new bizarre policy. It used to be that county clerks who process driver's licenses were banned from giving out voter registration forms to anyone without a Social Security number. No longer. Lou Dobbs of CNN reported that an Oct. 19 memo from the state DMV informed the clerks they don't "have any statutory discretion to withhold a motor voter form." What's more, the computer block preventing a DMV clerk from transmitting a motor voter registration without a Social Security number was removed.

Gov. Spitzer's office told me the courts have upheld their position on Social Security numbers. Sandy DePerno, the Democratic clerk of Oneida County, says that makes no sense. "This makes voter fraud easier," she told me.

While states such as New York are increasing the risk of such fraud, a half-dozen states have recently adopted laws requiring voters to offer proof of identity or citizenship before casting a ballot. A federal commission, co-chaired by former President Jimmy Carter and former Secretary of State James Baker, gave such laws a big boost in 2005 when it called for a nationwide policy requiring a photo ID before voting.

Mr. Carter has personal knowledge of why such laws are needed. He recounts in his book "Turning Point" how his 1962 race for Georgia State Senate involved a local sheriff who had cast votes for the dead. It took a recount and court challenge before Mr. Carter was declared the winner.

Measures that curb voter fraud on the one hand and encourage it on the other will be central to the 2008 election. The Supreme Court will rule on the constitutionality of Indiana's photo ID law next spring, while lawsuits challenging Gov. Spitzer's moves will be in New York state courts.

Despite her muddled comments this week, there's no doubt where Mrs. Clinton stands on ballot integrity. She opposes photo ID laws, even though they enjoy over 80% support in the polls. She has also introduced a bill to force every state to offer no-excuse absentee voting as well as Election Day registration--easy avenues for election chicanery. The bill requires that every state restore voting rights to all criminals who have completed their prison terms, parole or probation.

Pollster Scott Rasmussen notes that Mrs. Clinton is such a polarizing figure that she attracts between 46% and 49% support no matter which Republican candidate she's pitted against--even libertarian Ron Paul. She knows she may have trouble winning next year. Maybe that's why she's thrown herself in with those who will look the other way as a new electoral majority is formed--even if that includes non-citizens, felons and those who suddenly cross a state line on Election Day and decide they want to vote someplace new.

BoogyMan
11-05-2007, 02:47 AM
And even more....


Source: Link (http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2007/11/04/clinton-broadly-supports-states-efforts-to-license-illegals/)

CLINTON, Iowa (CNN) — Sen. Hillary Clinton, D-New York, Sunday sought to further clarify her position on New York Gov. Elliot Spitzer’s controversial plan to give driver’s licenses to illegal immigrants, a position which she said she’s already made clear on “a number of occasions.”

The issue was brought front and center at Tuesday night’s Democratic debate. At the time Clinton said the plan “makes a lot of sense" but stopped short of endorsing it. Former Sen. John Edwards, D-North Carolina, claimed her answer was inconsistent and Sen. Barack Obama, D-Illinois, has since said that her answer to that question and others “left us wondering.”

Asked by reporters Sunday why it’s taken so long for clarification Clinton admitted she “wasn’t as clear as [she] should have been” but added, “I broadly support what governors like Elliot Spitzer are trying to do.”

Clinton said governors around the nation are left with the burden because she said the Bush administration and the federal government as a whole have failed to bring about comprehensive immigration reform.

“I think that it’s understandable that states are trying to fill a vacuum left by the failures of the federal government,” Clinton continued. “That is not an answer. I don’t want to see 50 states’ policies on immigration.”

“But finally I do not believe we can resolve this problem unless we bring people out of the shadows,” Clinton said, adding that undocumented immigrants should have a pathway to citizenship but they’d need to register, pay taxes, pay fines, learn English, and wait in line after those who’ve come to the United States legally. Those who have committed crimes, she said, should be deported.

Clinton added that the policy of simply giving licenses to illegal immigrants is not something she thinks any governor would seek out.

“But I was in Des Moines [Iowa] yesterday, and I had three people come up to me and say that they had been hit in automobile accidents by undocumented workers, and they said ‘what are we supposed to do? We’re the ones that were injured. Our cars were damaged, and we get no relief because these people have no accountability, there’s no system that requires them to have insurance or anything else.’”

Clinton made the comments to reporters at a press conference in Clinton, Iowa, alongside former Vice President Walter Mondale who had just announced his endorsement.

Labrocca
11-05-2007, 02:58 AM
Yea it's easy to see how this can be abused. I bet some illegal aliens would vote not even knowing it was illegal to do so.

And also it's part of the reason I think the GOP should be courting the mexican immigrants to become Republican voters instead of pushing them away. Traditionally the mexicans are family conservatives.

preservanation
11-05-2007, 10:52 AM
This is all about getting illegals to vote for Dems. Fraud, plain and simple, Hillary is well versed in this area, and so are Ickes, McCulough and others working for her campaign.
Lab:
And also it's part of the reason I think the GOP should be courting the Mexican immigrants to become Republican voters instead of pushing them away. Traditionally the Mexicans are family conservatives. I agree,
Most all Mexicans I know are macho, misogynists, extremely anti-gay, anti-abortion, pro-gun, racist especially against blacks, and very suspicious of Gov, and are catholic, the antithisis of what the Dem party says they represent, but right now they are inclined to vote Dem because of all the free stuff and amnesty they think is being promised by the Dems.

This is another very important factor...
Most all-Spanish radio is filled with lies about Republicans and fawning speech about Dems. The Mexicans I know all think the Dems are going to give them the moon and the Reps are devils who want to chop off their heads, this is because of misleading and false propaganda from the only media that most of them can understand.
I am convinced that the DNC has a large part in what is broadcasted over these stations. A smart person should definitely look into this connection, it is very effective in clouding the minds of Spanish speaking citizens and non-citizens.
They, in the most part, do not have access to the "new media. They are being shamelessly propagandized.

PatrickHenry
11-05-2007, 04:54 PM
If they vote Democrat their votes will be thrown away anyhow...

Greg Palast has amply demonstrated THAT phenomenon...

suedanim
11-05-2007, 05:25 PM
If they vote Democrat their votes will be thrown away anyhow...

Greg Palast has amply demonstrated THAT phenomenon...



:clapper: True.

I don't know why the right is so worried about voter fraud. Oh thats right, they only worry if they fear losing. As long as the official record shows a win, all that voter fraud stuff is just tinfoil hat conspiracy theory. And when the clear winner means a loss for them, then fire the prosecutors who don't come through to prosecute voter fraud where there was none.

Don't worry too much though. Somewhere Karl (don't look at that man behind the curtain!) Rove is pulling strings to get you what you want..... again.

BoogyMan
11-05-2007, 05:28 PM
If they vote Democrat their votes will be thrown away anyhow...

Greg Palast has amply demonstrated THAT phenomenon...



:clapper: True.

I don't know why the right is so worried about voter fraud. Oh thats right, they only worry if they fear losing. As long as the official record shows a win, all that voter fraud stuff is just tinfoil hat conspiracy theory. And when the clear winner means a loss for them, then fire the prosecutors who don't come through to prosecute voter fraud where there was none.

Don't worry too much though. Somewhere Karl (don't look at that man behind the curtain!) Rove is pulling strings to get you what you want..... again.


It is very easy to make such specious allegations Sue. Now, show why using motor voter is NOT a real issue if illegal aliens are issued drivers licenses?

Deadshot
11-05-2007, 06:03 PM
If we want to fight the fight of votes not being counted or disenfranchised voters that's fine. But this is wrong.

I don't mind people coming to find jobs. IMHO, the Govt. should be crucifying those business that hire illegals thus killing the market forcing them to go home. But that's another arguement too.

But allowing illegals to vote is wrong and needs to be stopped. Fuck the POTUS race in '08, what if the illegals vote in '08 and get away with it? What happens in the future to border States and their government? Could we see state representatives and senators in, say Arizona, elected by illegals or with their help, offering to lessen border security as a "Thank You"?

This is a scary precident and needs to be stopped NOW!:fight:

suedanim
11-05-2007, 06:20 PM
If we want to fight the fight of votes not being counted or disenfranchised voters that's fine. But this is wrong.

I don't mind people coming to find jobs. IMHO, the Govt. should be crucifying those business that hire illegals thus killing the market forcing them to go home. But that's another arguement too.

But allowing illegals to vote is wrong and needs to be stopped. Fuck the POTUS race in '08, what if the illegals vote in '08 and get away with it? What happens in the future to border States and their government? Could we see state representatives and senators in, say Arizona, elected by illegals or with their help, offering to lessen border security as a "Thank You"?

This is a scary precident and needs to be stopped NOW!:fight:


ok.. I agree with that. I do not want illegals voting either and do not support voter registration attached to drivers licensing for them.

But we are hearing an outcry from the right about voter fraud concerning this. I just wish the right was as concerned about voter fraud when it appears they might win because of it.

Deadshot
11-05-2007, 06:46 PM
ok.. I agree with that. I do not want illegals voting either and do not support voter registration attached to drivers licensing for them.

But we are hearing an outcry from the right about voter fraud concerning this. I just wish the right was as concerned about voter fraud when it appears they might win because of it.


I wish that each party could be held to a higher standard. But that simply is not the case...

BoogyMan
11-05-2007, 07:23 PM
ok.. I agree with that. I do not want illegals voting either and do not support voter registration attached to drivers licensing for them.

But we are hearing an outcry from the right about voter fraud concerning this. I just wish the right was as concerned about voter fraud when it appears they might win because of it.


I wish that each party could be held to a higher standard. But that simply is not the case...


Now THAT I can whole heartedly agree with DS. Anyone thinking that their party doesn't have dirty hands in America today has another think coming.

Interrested
11-05-2007, 11:49 PM
I have been completely against illegal immigrants coming to the United States from the start. I understand their reasoning for coming here - a steady job with money for their families. But that doesn't justify them coming here at all. If they wish to come here, they should do it legally like every other immigrant. Some people wait years to get a Green Card, and feel offended when they see thousands of illegal Mexicans coming over without approval. Plus, there is nothing we are doing to stop this - if anything, we've been promoting it! If we do not take a stand on this now, the country is simply going to be over run - and our current system of government and way of life will most likely be ruined. Soon roadsigns will be taken down and replaced with spanish roadsigns. And then what? Providing free residences for illegals? Driving licenses for illegals is crazy, and Voting is even worse. Someone needs to do something about this before it is too late.

preservanation
11-06-2007, 10:54 PM
If they vote Democrat their votes will be thrown away anyhow...

Ha! that's a supposition.
PROVE it!
It is impossible to do so.

What is it about "Undocumented" do you not understand?[hr]I love the idea of giving "undocumented" people mortgages.
Geeeee, who pays for the defaults?
Citicorp and YOU!
Look at your 401k or IRA.
How did it do last week?

I got out of all "Financials" over 2 weeks ago.
Yeah, me!

PatrickHenry
11-14-2007, 02:00 AM
If they vote Democrat their votes will be thrown away anyhow...

Ha! that's a supposition.
PROVE it!
It is impossible to do so.
Is that a challenge to prove that the Republicans run an effective disenfranchisement machine?

AlanC
11-14-2007, 02:05 AM
Okay, if the Republicans are so good at rigging elections, what happened in 06? Did they forget to do it?

I think its a bit disengenuous to sit here and make one accusation after another about vote fraud when the other side won the majority of contests.

But then it is always a bit inconvenient to let the facts get in the way of a good conspiracy theory.

PatrickHenry
11-14-2007, 02:53 AM
Okay, if the Republicans are so good at rigging elections, what happened in 06? Did they forget to do it?

I think its a bit disengenuous to sit here and make one accusation after another about vote fraud when the other side won the majority of contests.

But then it is always a bit inconvenient to let the facts get in the way of a good conspiracy theory.
I will respond with a dedicated thread, so that this discussion of illegal aliens "voting" doesn't get off track.

But honestly...I don't think there's much to illegals voting...I think it's conservative BS and happens rarely if at all.

Poor folks don'tmanage to vote as often as rich folks anyhow.