I think I know why Kerry still will not release his military records

[utahraptor]

He said he would, but til now refuses to sign the release. Maybe his early out was for homosexual behavior. Sure would explain why he wanted to not sign the papers.

Or maybe he sprouted too much treasonous stuff. We will never know til he signs the release.

[Ethan]

If you cared at all about our military then you wouldn't dishonor a war vet.

[PittsburghAfterDark]

You know Ethan, that's the typical liberal cop out.

Nothing about anyone that ever served makes them above crticism. Criticism is not dishonor.

Dishonor is what those tools that sell "Bush Lied People Died" shirts with dead soldiers names on them. Dishonor are the "fake" graveyard of crosses liberals plant at protests with dead soldiers names on them.

Nothing anyone in American political discussion says can dishonor a war vet who dishonored himself and all of his fellow veterans in the Winter Soldier hearings.

Kerry is a giant tool.

[AlonzoMourning23]

Nothing anyone in American political discussion says can dishonor a war vet who dishonored himself and all of his fellow veterans in the Winter Soldier hearings.

Psst..... http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-vietnam6aug06,0,6350517.story

[PittsburghAfterDark]

John Edwards is supposed to be a great lawyer but at the recent Democratic convention he made a rookie mistake: He raised a question without knowing the answer. "If you have any questions about what John Kerry's made of, just spend three minutes with the men who served with him," he said.

Edwards meant Kerry's "band of brothers" - the small entourage of vets who served under him in Vietnam and now strongly support him for President.

Evidently, Edwards did not know at the time that almost every officer who commanded Kerry or served alongside him opposes his candidacy. Worse, they have formed a group, Swiftboat Veterans for Truth, that claims more than 250 members.

Their case against Kerry is set forth in a new book, "Unfit for Command," co-written by longtime Kerry critic John O'Neill, and in a TV ad from the group.

Kerry's critics in arms allege that he didn't deserve one of his Purple Hearts and his Bronze Star. They make these claims on the basis of firsthand knowledge. But combat is notoriously confusing, and soldiers in the heat of battle make poor witnesses. Kerry deserves the benefit of the doubt. If the Navy says he won his medals fair and square, that's good enough for me.

What Kerry did (or didn't do) in Cambodia is a different matter.

On March 27, 1986, Kerry told his fellow senators: "I remember Christmas of 1968, sitting on a gunboat in Cambodia. I remember what it was like to be shot at by the Vietnamese and the Khmer Rouge and Cambodians, and the President of the United States telling the American people that I was not there, the troops were not in Cambodia.

"I have that memory, which is seared - seared - in me."

Here's the problem: Kerry's commanding officers and some of his crew members reportedly deny that he was in Cambodia on Christmas 1968. They say he was stationed near the town of Sa Dec, 55 miles from the Cambodian border.

Kerry's people are trying hard to discredit his discreditors. They call "Unfit for Command" co-author O'Neill a Republican hack with a decades-long grudge against Kerry. They say Texas moneymen close to Karl Rove are behind the TV spots and are warning TV stations, in writing, not to air them. They maintain that the Swiftboat Veterans for Truth are motivated by jealousy of Kerry or anger at his post-Vietnam anti-war activities. They want to dismiss all questions about Kerry's war record as sleazy slander.

Sorry, but that's not going to wash. The issue is not whether the charges against Kerry are politically motivated (they obviously are) or who is paying for them. There's just one relevant question: Are the allegations true? Specifically, is it true he lied about being in Cambodia.

Unlike the debate over Kerry's medals, this is a matter that can be checked and verified. If it turns out Kerry was there, the Swiftboat Veterans for Truth are liars and their charges are, in the words of Kerry's friend John McCain, "dishonest and dishonorable." But if he wasn't there, the Kerry campaign is saddled with a problem it can't solve by calling Republicans names, threatening TV stations or even bringing up President Bush's less than stellar war record.

Kerry has staked his candidacy on Vietnam. His running mate has publicly invited the country to judge Kerry by listening to his comrades in arms. A lot of them, to Edwards' obvious chagrin, are saying that John Kerry is unfit for command.

If it turns out he made up the story of Christmas in Cambodia, they could very well be right.
Linky Linky! (http://www.nydailynews.com/news/ideas_opinions/story/220785p-189814c.html)

I'll address the points before they come up.

1. This group is financed by Republicans.

Swift Boat Veterans for truth is a 527 political group that has no ties to any single candidate. It has total funding of $158,750, $100,000 of which came from Bob Perry of Perry Homes in Texas. Opensecrets.org (http://www.opensecrets.org/527s/527events.asp?orgid=61)

This is nothing compared to the $41.6 million raised by the Joint Victory Campaign 2004, the $28.1 million raised by the Media Fund or the $26.9 million raised by America coming together. In other words, they are a very tiny PAC and don't even come close to matching even the 527 fundraising of the Marijuana Policy Project or Oregon Grocery Association . Opensecrets.org top 527 group fundraisers. (http://www.opensecrets.org/527s/527cmtes.asp)

2. John Kerry was taken out of context.

Then why has he said it in newspaper articles (The 1979 review that appeared in the Boston Herald for Apocalypse now contains the quote.) as do several other inerviews and the Congressional Record from 1986. Congressional Record transcripts are not available online from their official souce until 1992. All published accounts of Kerry's 1986 speech, given while he was voting against supporting the Contras, are transcripts.
] Daily Telegraph UK (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2004/08/12/wus12.xml&sSheet=/news/2004/08/12/ixnewstop.html)
MSNBC book transcript, John Kerry's website account. Boston Globe account. (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5662329/)

On the floor of the U.S. Senate on March 27, 1986, Kerry launched one of his many attacks against President Reagan—this time charging that President Reagan’s actions in Central America were leading the United States into yet another Vietnam, claiming that he could recognize the error of the administration’s ways because he had experienced firsthand the duplicity of the Nixon administration in lying about American incursions into Cambodia during the Vietnam War. Kerry charged that he had been illegally ordered into Cambodia during Christmas 1968:

I remember Christmas of 1968 sitting on a gunboat in Cambodia. I remember what it was like to be shot at by the Vietnamese and Khmer Rouge and Cambodians, and have the president of the United States telling the American people that I was not there; the troops were not in Cambodia. I have that memory which is seared—seared—in me. Kerry also described, for example, for the Boston Herald his vivid memories of his Christmas Eve spent in Cambodia:

I remember spending Christmas Eve of 1968 five miles across the Cambodian border being shot at by our South Vietnamese allies who were drunk and celebrating Christmas. The absurdity of almost being killed by our own allies in a country in which President Nixon claimed there were no American troops was very real.

Now here's a basic problem. Richard Nixon was elected in 1968 but was not innagurated until 1969. (http://www.whitehouse.gov/history/presidents/rn37.html) Lyndon Johnson was President of the United States on Christmas Eve and Christmas Day of 1968. If there was a President making these claims on the dates Kery claims to have been in Cambodia it was Johnson.

John Kerry did write about this in his book but the author (John Kerry himself.) has forbidden reprints. Why would a Presidential candidate block publication of his own book? Can you imagine John F. Kennedy doing the same for "Profiles In Courage"? Copies are going on Amazon for $420-1,200 used and are surely going to accelerate in value if the candidate himself will not answer this simple question, let alone the rest of the charges contained within "Unfit For Command". Link for "The New Soldier" price estimates. (http://notabug.com/kahle/19)

3. Only talk radio and the right wing websites care about this.

The book is scheduled to be released August 15th. There is an official embargo on by the publisher until the street date. The Druge Report willingly broke that embargo and took the lead on promoting its claims. Since then Nightline has dedicated an episode to the controversy and FOX News has stated several times that when they confronted the Kerry campaign directly they claim he was taken out of context. When given the Congressional Record, Boston Glove movie reviews for Apocalypse Now the campaign said they would have to get back to FOX News. This was Monday, it's now Wednesday.

Other points brought up in this book of note:
*How captured Americans were tortured in North Vietnamese prisons for not endorsing John Kerry's false testimony-before the United States Senate-about alleged American war crimes.

* How John Kerry carried a typewriter and an 8-mm home movie camera with him to Vietnam so he could record his own exaggerated version of his war exploits and film staged reenactments of his "combat actions" to advance his political career.

http://ice.he.net/~freepnet/kerry/graphics/image003.jpg
* Why John Kerry's photograph hangs in a place of honor in the Vietnamese communist "War Remnants Museum" in Saigon .

Jeffrey M. Epstein of Vietnam Vets for the Truth acquired the photograph over the Memorial Day weekend as America was commemorating its military heroes. Jeff Epstein explains the importance of the photograph:

"This photograph's unquestionable significance lies in its placement in the American protestors' section of the War Crimes Museum in Saigon. The Vietnamese communists clearly recognize John Kerry's contributions to their victory. This find can be compared to the discovery of a painting of Neville Chamberlain hanging in a place of honor in Hitler's Eagle's Nest in 1945."

Below the photograph of John Kerry are explanatory placards in English, French, Vietnamese, and Chinese. The English placard reads:

"Mr. Do Muoi, Secretary General of the Vietnamese Communist Party met with Congressman and Veterans Delegation in Vietnam (July 15-18, 1993)"

Senator Kerry may argue today that his anti-war protests did not render support to the enemy in time of war and that his activities did not violate the definition of treason given in Article III, Section 3, of the US Constitution. This exhibit paying tribute to Kerry in the War Protestors Hall of the War Remnants Museum in Ho Chi Minh City tells a very different story. The Vietnamese communists clearly feel that the American anti-war protestors were a very important force in undermining support in the United States for American war efforts, a force that contributed materially to ultimate communist victory in 1975.

On Fox News' Hannity and Colmes show on Friday, May 28, 2004, Rear Admiral Roy Hoffman (USN, Retired) accused John Kerry of being a traitor because of his anti-war activities. This photo, which demonstrates the extent to which the Vietnamese communists acknowledge that he supported them during the Vietnam War, corroborates this charge.
From the PittsburghAfterDark CAG Archives (http://cheapassgamer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17330)

[Ethan]

Swift Boats for justice dishonor all our men and women of the military by questioning a man's service as a Vietnam vet. I don't think it's dishonorable to oppose someone's opinion, or to think he's not fit for presidency, but to question if he earned his Purple Hearts. That makes me cringe.

[BoogyMan]

Swift Boats for justice dishonor all our men and women of the military by questioning a man's service as a Vietnam vet. I don't think it's dishonorable to oppose someone's opinion, or to think he's not fit for presidency, but to question if he earned his Purple Hearts. That makes me cringe.


I don't guess you have even considered if there might be a REASON to question this mans efforts or lack thereof in Vietnam? Don't forget, those doing the questioning are men who were there, and didn't get early outs, they had to slog it through like every other regular Joe.

[PittsburghAfterDark]

Swift Boats for justice dishonor all our men and women of the military by questioning a man's service as a Vietnam vet.

MMM, I disagree.

I'm a veteran.

[Ethan]

And I would never question your service. Besides, it's all just bad publicity that wasn't really relevant to the election and it's issues.

[PittsburghAfterDark]

Bullshit.

It was relevant. It called into question the service record he claimed, his willingness to lie for political gain, his traitorous nature to his country by calling into question everything about the Vietname war highlighted by his enshrinement by the Vietnamese Communist Party in their war museum as helping their cause.

[Labrocca]

It was Kerry that ran as president as Veteran. I wonder Ethan if you felt the same way when Bush's tenure in the military was questioned.

btw..welcome to the forums Ethan. Consider posting in the introductions section more about yourself. We are very happy to get new members.

[Rider]

It's pretty clear that John Kerry's record, including his purple hearts are as phony as a three dollar bill. I don't expect non vets to understand this, but when virtually every officer in your chain of command up to the theater commander refuses to stand up for you, it's a lead pipe cinch you're a fraud.

Liberals miss the point of this as they see the military as evil and therefore the officer corps is evil also. You might find one or two officers that would lie for political reasons, but 200? Not on your life.

[Rider]

BTW, I noticed that in his first post on this thread he used the phrase "war vet". No accident, if he had used "vet" it would have included Bush. No accident, that.