BushCo was spying on US from day 1 ?

[Lazarus]

It sure seems that way -
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/10/12/AR2007101202485.html



A former Qwest Communications International executive, appealing a conviction for insider trading, has alleged that the government withdrew opportunities for contracts worth hundreds of millions of dollars after Qwest refused to participate in an unidentified National Security Agency program that the company thought might be illegal.
Former chief executive Joseph P. Nacchio, convicted in April of 19 counts of insider trading, said the NSA approached Qwest more than six months before the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks, according to court documents unsealed in Denver this week.
- and 9/11 was merely used as an excuse to extend his illegal surveillance.
In the court filings disclosed this week, Nacchio suggests that Qwest's refusal to take part in that program led the government to cancel a separate, lucrative contract with the NSA in retribution. He is using the allegation to try to show why his stock sale should not have been considered improper.
Operation " Groundbreaker " doesn't sound like a run-of-the-mill outsourcing.
It does sound like one unquestionably illegal undertaking was refused, and therefore a slightly less illegal contract was withdrawn.


I can hear it now.....
State Secrets !!!!!
CYA

[Kyi Yo]

Yup, thus the move by Bush to try to slide in a clause in the latest "spy bill" that would grant amnesty from prosecution for violation of privacy to the companies who willingly participated and broke the law.

[Lazarus]

..and we can't forget about the telcos who said " yes " to BushCo.
http://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071011/NEWS/71011021/-1/NEWS05
A law firm that represents clients at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, and in Afghanistan is warning its Vermont clients that it believes the federal government has been monitoring its phones and computer system.
“Although our investigation is not complete, we are quite confident that it is the United States government that has been doing the phone tapping and computer hacking,” said the letter, dated Oct. 2.
A Verizon Vermont technician who investigated problems with Gensburg’s phone last month found crossed lines, but didn’t explain what caused the problem, Sleigh said. A forensic examination of Gensburg’s computer found an application that disabled all security software and would have given someone access to all information on the computer, Sleigh said.
All I can add is " Narus STA 6400 " , designed for data-mining;
Bush' hasty presser after USATODAY article : not mining or trolling through the personal lives of millions of innocent Americans.
< I guess that depends on his definition of " innocent ". >

and " CIPAV " the FBIs' preferred spyware and IP tracker.

[Drocket]

Coming soon: evidence that the primary target of all the illegal wiretaps were political enemies. We are, quite seriously, dealing with people who think that Nixon's only fault was failing to establish an adequate level of plausible deniability.

[ViolaLee]

Is this enough to impeach? Will Bush resign like a good little Nixon if it is? Will the Democrats even do the right thing and go after this?

[K-D-K-D-K]

What people need to realize is that Bush is doing the right thing in protecting the country with the Patriot Act. If they did wiretap before 9-11, that is fine with me. Wiretapping is essential to find threats to the nation. It is the way to fight terrrorism. This is a different threat these days compared to yesteryear. So much technology is being used today and it can be a threat to the nation. Bush needs our support and we should be patriots and stand with him. I am all for wiretapping and easdropping.

[Lazarus]

What people need to realize is that Bush is doing the right thing in protecting the country with the Patriot Act. If they did wiretap before 9-11, that is fine with me. Wiretapping is essential to find threats to the nation. It is the way to fight terrrorism. This is a different threat these days compared to yesteryear. So much technology is being used today and it can be a threat to the nation. Bush needs our support and we should be patriots and stand with him. I am all for wiretapping and easdropping.

This thoughtless drivel is almost not worth a responce.
You put fort a great many assertions.
Unfortunately, proof is woefully lacking.
Proof that BushCo is " doing the right thing " or proof that " wiretapping is essential to find threats to the nation. It is the way to fight terrrorism. "

But the pentultimate lack of proof is that BushCo had to violate FISA requirements, rather than he merely wanted to .

Also worth noting is that, even though George Jr. was illegally conducting surveillance 6 months prior to 9/11, it still did nothing to prevent that event from occurring.

Who, if not terrorists, could he have been spying on?

[AnnEsthesia]

Nono, they would have stopped the attacks, they just forgot to dial 1 first when they were tapping...

[Marley]

LMAO

Sooooooooooooo

None of you armchair experts ever heard of "Eschelon" before the year 200 huh?

BRILLIANT!

LOL

[Lazarus]

LMAO

Sooooooooooooo

None of you armchair experts ever heard of "Eschelon" before the year 200 huh?

BRILLIANT!

LOL


Echelon ?

2000 ?

Ziggy, you don't strike me as someone with a great amount of intelligence.
< that " Preview Post " option is there for a reason >

Echelon was also a good idea - in theory.
However it too was subverted into an illegal operation; by the US, I might add.
This subversion did begin pre-2000, but not by government entities.
Industrial espionage began that chapter.
Those acts led to the dissolution of the 5-nation Echelon group.
International law frowns on that sort of thing.

But BushCo kept the pgm running and expanded it into TIA, and also began focusing on domestic surveilance under the guise of tracking terrorist threats.

long story short....

that leaves us in the current, continuing illegalities in which we find ourselves.

[micfranklin]

What people need to realize is that Bush is doing the right thing in protecting the country with the Patriot Act. If they did wiretap before 9-11, that is fine with me. Wiretapping is essential to find threats to the nation. It is the way to fight terrrorism. This is a different threat these days compared to yesteryear. So much technology is being used today and it can be a threat to the nation. Bush needs our support and we should be patriots and stand with him. I am all for wiretapping and easdropping.


Why should any of us support a man who lied to get his way with the war we're in, has nearly bankrupted the country with this war, stomped on the country's basic freedoms, suspends habeas corpus, and is lying his country ass off again about torture?

[Truth_and_Power]

Coming soon: evidence that the primary target of all the illegal wiretaps were political enemies.


I have been waiting for this since I first heard of the patriot act.

[Marley]

You mean like Hillary?

In their book about Clinton’s rise to power, Her Way, Don Van Natta Jr., an investigative reporter at The New York Times, and Jeff Gerth, who spent 30 years as an investigative reporter at the paper, wrote: “Hillary’s defense activities ranged from the inspirational to the microscopic to the down and dirty. She received memos about the status of various press inquiries; she vetted senior campaign aides; and she listened to a secretly recorded audiotape of a phone conversation of Clinton critics plotting their next attack.

“The tape contained discussions of another woman who might surface with allegations about an affair with Bill,” Gerth and Van Natta wrote in reference to Clinton’s husband, former President Bill Clinton. “Bill’s supporters monitored frequencies used by cell phones, and the tape was made during one of those monitoring sessions.”

Or were you thinking of Democrat Jim McDermot?

For the third time in six years, Chief Judge Douglas Ginsburg and Judges David Sentelle and A. Raymond Randolph listened to arguments about whether McDermott had a First Amendment right to share an illegally recorded phone conversation with reporters.

The three judges will issue a ruling in several months. If they side with Boehner, a lower court ruling finding McDermott liable for violating Boehner’s privacy will stand. If McDermott prevails and there is no out-of-court settlement, he could get a new trial. Both could appeal to the Supreme Court.

The case began in 1996 when a Florida couple gave the liberal Democrat a recorded cell phone conversation between Boehner and GOP leaders in which they discussed the political fate of then-Speaker Newt Gingrich (R-Ga.).

McDermott, then a member of the House ethics committee, let reporters at The New York Times, Roll Call and The Atlanta Journal-Constitution listen to the recording in which the House Republicans discussed the likelihood that Gingrich, the target of an ethics panel investigation at the time, would pay a fine and accept a rebuke from the House.

Funny ain't it?

Y'all are paranoid about Republicans doing what your leaders have done!

[lily]

Links please.

[Labrocca]

So a guy on trial for insider trading is blaming Bush and the NSA for it? Oh please.

Wiretapping and the NSA been around for YEARS.

[JohnnyAwake]

So a guy on trial for insider trading is blaming Bush and the NSA for it? Oh please.

Wiretapping and the NSA been around for YEARS.


Yes but wiretapping has to satisfy RICO predicates; And not snub our constitution.

[Lazarus]

You mean like Hillary?

In their book about Clinton’s rise to power, Her Way, Don Van Natta Jr., an investigative reporter at The New York Times, and Jeff Gerth, who spent 30 years as an investigative reporter at the paper, wrote: “Hillary’s defense activities ranged from the inspirational to the microscopic to the down and dirty. She received memos about the status of various press inquiries; she vetted senior campaign aides; and she listened to a secretly recorded audiotape of a phone conversation of Clinton critics plotting their next attack.

“The tape contained discussions of another woman who might surface with allegations about an affair with Bill,” Gerth and Van Natta wrote in reference to Clinton’s husband, former President Bill Clinton. “Bill’s supporters monitored frequencies used by cell phones, and the tape was made during one of those monitoring sessions.”

Or were you thinking of Democrat Jim McDermot?

For the third time in six years, Chief Judge Douglas Ginsburg and Judges David Sentelle and A. Raymond Randolph listened to arguments about whether McDermott had a First Amendment right to share an illegally recorded phone conversation with reporters.

The three judges will issue a ruling in several months. If they side with Boehner, a lower court ruling finding McDermott liable for violating Boehner’s privacy will stand. If McDermott prevails and there is no out-of-court settlement, he could get a new trial. Both could appeal to the Supreme Court.

The case began in 1996 when a Florida couple gave the liberal Democrat a recorded cell phone conversation between Boehner and GOP leaders in which they discussed the political fate of then-Speaker Newt Gingrich (R-Ga.).

McDermott, then a member of the House ethics committee, let reporters at The New York Times, Roll Call and The Atlanta Journal-Constitution listen to the recording in which the House Republicans discussed the likelihood that Gingrich, the target of an ethics panel investigation at the time, would pay a fine and accept a rebuke from the House.

Funny ain't it?

Y'all are paranoid about Republicans doing what your leaders have done!


The similarities are tenuous, at best.
Private citizens breaking the law is a far cry less damaging than an administration using government resources to do likewise.

Don't be discouraged though, I find your efforts and motivations rather intriguing.[hr]
So a guy on trial for insider trading is blaming Bush and the NSA for it? Oh please.

Wiretapping and the NSA been around for YEARS.


No one is arguing to the contrary.
The fabricated inconvenience of warrants and the fact that this FISA end-run began well before 9/11 is what I am attempting to explore here.

[Truth_and_Power]

Why is it that as much as this subject gets brought up, republicans always respond by trying to justify wiretapping. They don't touch FISA or the constitution if they can help it. They just talk about the need to wiretap terrorists. Have they forgotten the issue from 5 minutes ago? Is it deliberate?

[Labrocca]

So a guy on trial for insider trading is blaming Bush and the NSA for it? Oh please.

Wiretapping and the NSA been around for YEARS.


Yes but wiretapping has to satisfy RICO predicates; And not snub our constitution.


I don't see how that related to this topic. The article suggest that Bush Administration was illegally wiretapping pre-9/11 and it's being suggested by a person on trial for insider trading.

and 9/11 was merely used as an excuse to extend his illegal surveillance.

That's conjecture. This entire thread is based on assumptions with no base in fact. One would think facts would need to be established before people believe in this conspiracy. And that's exactly what this thread is about...some vast conspiracy.

[Lazarus]

I am rather disappointed that this was relocated to the basement.

Theirs is not the company I keep.
************************

Nacchio is not just talking shit or using the grey mail defense to escape justice.
He possesses intimate knowledge of these surveilance projects.
He is speaking the truth about this subject - otherwise, why would the prosecution demand that so much of his evidence be redacted before being released?