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View Full Version : Blackwater operatives held u.s. soldiers at gunpoint


Alonzo
10-13-2007, 01:39 AM
Oct. 15, 2007 issue - The colonel was furious. "Can you believe it? They actually drew their weapons on U.S. soldiers." He was describing a 2006 car accident, in which an SUV full of Blackwater operatives had crashed into a U.S. Army Humvee on a street in Baghdad's Green Zone. The colonel, who was involved in a follow-up investigation and spoke on the condition he not be named, said the Blackwater guards disarmed the U.S. Army soldiers and made them lie on the ground at gunpoint until they could disentangle the SUV. His account was confirmed by the head of another private security company. Asked to address this and other allegations in this story, Blackwater spokesperson Anne Tyrrell said, "This type of gossip has led to many soap operas in the press."

Whatever else Blackwater is or isn't guilty of—a topic of intense interest in Washington—it has a well-earned reputation in Iraq for arrogance and high-handedness. Iraqis naturally have the most serious complaints; dozens have been killed by Blackwater operatives since the beginning of the war. But many American civilian and military officials in Iraq also have little sympathy for the private security company and its highly paid employees. With an uproar growing in Congress over Blackwater's alleged excesses, the North Carolina-based company is finding few supporters.

Responsible for guarding top U.S. officials in Iraq, Blackwater operatives are often accused of playing by their own rules. Unlike nearly everyone else who enters the Green Zone, said an American soldier who guards a gate, Blackwater gunmen refuse to stop and clear their weapons of live ammunition once inside. One military contractor, who spoke anonymously for fear of retribution in his industry, recounted the story of a Blackwater operative who answered a Marine officer's order to put his pistol on safety when entering a base post office by saying, "This is my safety," and wiggling his trigger finger in the air. "Their attitude was, 'We're f---ing security; we don't have to answer to anybody'."

Congress disagrees. Until now, private security contractors working for the State Department, as Blackwater does, have effectively not been covered by either U.S. or Iraqi law, or military regulations. A bill that overwhelmingly passed the House last week would close that loophole. But the law would also require the FBI to establish a large-scale presence in Iraq in order to investigate accusations against private contractors. Law-enforcement officials worry that this would draw valuable resources away from FBI efforts to combat terrorism in the United States. Also, whenever FBI agents venture into Iraq now they are guarded by ... Blackwater operatives. The bureau has sent a team to Baghdad to investigate the Sept. 16 shooting in Nasoor Square, in which Blackwater guards are accused of killing as many as 17 Iraqi civilians. In order to avoid "even the appearance of any conflict [of interest]," according to an FBI spokesman, the agents will be defended by U.S. government personnel.

It is not an idle concern. Blackwater's staunchest defenders tend to be found among those whom they guard. U.S. officials prefer Blackwater and other private security bodyguards because they regard them as more highly trained than military guards, who are often reservists from MP units. A U.S. Embassy staffer, who did not have permission to speak on the record, said, "It's a few bad eggs that seem to be spoiling the bunch." Late last week the State Department announced that it would increase oversight of Blackwater in particular, installing cameras in its vehicles and having a Diplomatic Security Service officer ride along on every convoy. But another State Department official, also speaking anonymously, says that DSS agents in Baghdad have not been eager to rein in the contractors in the past: "These guys tend to close ranks. It's like the blue wall."

Testifying before Congress last week, 38-year-old Blackwater chief Erik Prince vigorously defended his company's "dedicated security professionals" who "risk their lives to protect Americans in harm's way overseas." Prince probably had no reason to be as smug as he seemed to many observers. In deflecting questions about a drunken Blackwater operative who allegedly shot and killed a bodyguard for Iraqi Vice President Adel Abdul Mahdi in the Green Zone on Christmas Eve last year, Prince said that the employee, later identified as Andrew Moonen, had been fined and fired. But on Friday House Oversight Committee chairman Rep. Henry Waxman released a letter to Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice recounting evidence that Moonen was able to return to Iraq and worked there for another company. Moonen's attorney, Stewart Riley, told NEWSWEEK his client denies wrongdoing and is not facing criminal charges. Blackwater is no doubt in for further fire fights.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21163806/site/newsweek/

It's acceptable to draw your weapons on soldiers (or fellow soldiers) when those soldiers are endangering civilians, as was the case during the my lai massacre. But there's no way it's acceptable because you got into a car accident with them.

PatrickHenry
10-13-2007, 04:07 AM
If I was a US soldier in Iraq I would never allow Blackwater to disarm me, not even for a moment.

If they insisted, I would radio for help while retaining my weapons and any attempt to take them by force would be met with force.

I can't imagine a force commander who would allow his outfit to be disarmed by mercenaries.

ViolaLee
10-13-2007, 04:39 AM
Unbelievable.

preservanation
10-13-2007, 12:11 PM
Good!
At least some people will stand up against the Bush administration!
You Libs should applaud.

AnnEsthesia
10-13-2007, 12:50 PM
Who do you think will stand up against Bush?

jafar00
10-13-2007, 12:53 PM
Doesn't attacking US soldiers in Iraq make you an insurgent or terrorist? Bush should bomb blackwater bases immediately ;)

preservanation
10-13-2007, 12:57 PM
Who do you think will stand up against Bush?

Not Pelosi, obviously!

AnnEsthesia
10-13-2007, 12:59 PM
preservation: "blah blah partisan bitching blah blah"

Now answer the question. You said someone would stand up to the administration. Who exactly do you think would do that?

preservanation
10-13-2007, 12:59 PM
Doesn't attacking US soldiers in Iraq make you an insurgent or terrorist? Bush should bomb blackwater bases immediately ;)
Go with that.

G'day mate![hr]
preservation: "blah blah partisan bitching blah blah"

Now answer the question. You said someone would stand up to the administration. Who exactly do you think would do that?
???
Oh, I was speaking tongue in sheep...er cheek.

[hr]This administration does not need standing up to...it needs standing up for.

Alonzo
10-13-2007, 02:01 PM
Good!
At least some people will stand up against the Bush administration!
You Libs should applaud.


So you are happy that soldiers where held at gunpoint?

Would you be hosting a parade if their brains were decorating the street?

preservanation
10-13-2007, 02:17 PM
Good!
At least some people will stand up against the Bush administration!
You Libs should applaud.


So you are happy that soldiers where held at gunpoint?

Would you be hosting a parade if their brains were decorating the street?
If anything embarrasses or harms the Bush Administration, you're all for it...No matter what the cost.

Alonzo
10-13-2007, 02:21 PM
When you typed that, did you think it had anything to do with my question?

preservanation
10-13-2007, 02:26 PM
yes.
Just exposing your selective outrage and bias, thank you.

AnnEsthesia
10-13-2007, 02:34 PM
I guess preservation is a psychic now.

Alonzo
10-13-2007, 02:39 PM
yes.
Just exposing your selective outrage and bias, thank you.


Since when have I ever supported shooting, threatening, or holding soldiers at gunpoint?

Since you've always condemned people who did these things, and now you're not, it says something. In fact this incident doesn't seem to bother you at all.

preservanation
10-13-2007, 02:55 PM
You're gloating over this and how it harms our effort in Iraq, as well as your desire to pull out, resulting in an all out massacre, belies the notion that you are actually concerned about the Iraqi people at all.

Alonzo
10-13-2007, 02:56 PM
You're gloating over this and how it harms our effort in Iraq,

Show me where I did this.

as well as your desire to pull out,

I have $100 cash sitting in front of me that will go to the person who can find where I said I supported pulling out now or in the near future.

preservanation
10-13-2007, 02:58 PM
You're gloating over this and how it harms our effort in Iraq,

Show me where I did this.

as well as your desire to pull out,

I have $100 cash sitting in front of me that will go to the person who can find where I said I supported pulling out now or in the near future.
Sorry, Zo.
I didn't know you supported Bush's efforts in Iraq so fervently.
Apologies.

Alonzo
10-13-2007, 03:00 PM
Show me where I supported bush's method.

Last I checked there's a difference between what bush wants and simply leaving like others want.

moses2792796
10-13-2007, 03:10 PM
This thread has been rather embarrasing, considering Preservanation's views it should have been pretty obvious that his first post was sarcastic...

Elrathin
10-13-2007, 03:23 PM
I still haven't seen one bit of outrage from conservatives over this. Do all you conservatives agree that blackwater should be allowed to do this?

preservanation
10-13-2007, 03:25 PM
I don't believe any of it until I get a better idea of what actually happened.
You can thank your lib media for my scepticism and cynicism.
Once bitten...[hr]Yeah, and Richard Pearl detonated a bomb at the Atlanta Olympics.
I'm just deferring my judgement until more time has past.
That's all.
The speed at which the libs jumped on this story to make it a political issue and a referendum against our effort in Iraq....gives me pause.
Trust is not a privilege I hand out lightly to the left and that includes the media.