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View Full Version : Iraqi Govt. Wants US to Sever all Blackwater Contracts


Kyi Yo
10-09-2007, 12:00 AM
I guess since our government won't hold them accountable, the Iraqis will have to!


Iraqi Authorities Seek Blackwater Ouster

STEVEN R. HURST and QASSIM ABDUL-ZAHRA | October 8, 2007 07:38 PM EST | AP

BAGHDAD — Iraqi authorities want the U.S. government to sever all contracts in Iraq with Blackwater USA within six months. They also want the firm to pay $8 million in compensation to families of each of the 17 people killed when its guards sprayed a traffic circle with heavy machine gun fire last month.

The demands _ part of an Iraqi government report examined by The Associated Press _ also called on U.S. authorities to hand over the Blackwater security agents involved in the Sept. 16 shootings to face possible trial in Iraqi courts.

The tone of the Iraqi report appears to signal further strains between the government of Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki and the White House over the deaths in Nisoor Square _ which have prompted a series of U.S. and Iraqi probes and raised questions over the use of private security contractors to guard U.S. diplomats and other officials.

Al-Maliki ordered the investigation by his defense minister and other top security and police officials on Sept. 22. The findings _ which were translated from Arabic by AP _ mark the most definitive Iraqi positions and contentions about the shootings last month.

The report also highlights the differences in death tolls and accounts that have complicated efforts to piece together the chain of events as one Blackwater-protected convoy raced back toward Baghdad's Green Zone after a nearby bombing, while a second backup team in four gun trucks sped into the square as a backup team.

The Iraqi investigation _ first outlined Thursday by The Associated Press _ charges the four Blackwater vehicles called to the square began shooting without provocation. Blackwater contends its employees came under fire first.

The government, at the conclusion of its investigation, said 17 Iraqis died. Initial reports put the toll at 11.

It said the compensation _ totaling $136 million _ was so high "because Blackwater uses employees who disrespect the rights of Iraqi citizens even though they are guests in this country."

The U.S. military pays compensation money to the families of civilians killed in battles or to cover property damage, but at far lower amounts.

The United States has not made conclusive findings about the shooting, though there are multiple investigations under way and Congress has opened inquiries into the role of private security contractors. Last week, the FBI took over a State Department investigation, raising the prospect that it could be referred to the Justice Department for prosecution.

The Iraqi government report said its courts were to proper venue in which to bring charges.

It said Blackwater's license to operate in Iraq expired on June 2, 2006, meaning it had no immunity from prosecution under Iraqi laws set down after the fall of Saddam Hussein in 2003.

The government report also challenged the claim that a decree in June 2004 by then-Iraqi administrator L. Paul Bremer granted Blackwater immunity from legal action in incidents such as the one in Nisoor Square. The report said the Blackwater guards could be charged under a criminal code from 1969.

U.S. Embassy spokeswoman Mirembe Nantongo said the diplomatic mission would have no comment on the report. Iraq's Interior Ministry spokesman, Abdul-Karim Khalaf, said the document was in American hands.

The report found that Blackwater guards also had killed 21 Iraqi civilians and wounded 27 in previous shootings since it took over security for U.S. diplomats in Baghdad after the U.S. invasion. The Iraqi government did not say whether it would try to prosecute in those cases.

The State Department has counted 56 shooting incidents involving Blackwater guards in Iraq this year. All were being reviewed as part of the comprehensive inquiry ordered by Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice.

Trish
10-09-2007, 05:46 AM
You want our government to not uphold the Constitution? If I'm not mistaken, those folks are innocent until proven guilty. Until they are proven guilty, what do you want our government to do? Send them to Gitmo before they are even charged, much less convicted?

The article you posted said that this incident, and others involving Blackwater are being investigated. Why don't we wait and see what is actually going to be done after DUE PROCESS before we start lamenting about the failure of our government. After all, if one contends that accused non-US citizen terrorists are entitled to the Constitutional protection of due process, surely one would avow our citizens are entitled to the same?

Lazarus
10-09-2007, 06:05 AM
Uhh, excuse you Trish, but Iraq is a supposed " sovereign " nation, and I do not believe that it is operating under the U.S. Constitution.

And, as such, if Iraq demands that Blackwater leave its' country, there is no legal argument for it to remain.

And if the State Dept. balks at this, it may be told to exit as well.
The diplomatic efforts are an abject failure anyway.
Crocker is useless.

That embassy compound would make an awesome new presidential place.

Cobra
10-09-2007, 06:14 AM
Like they really get a say in the matter.

As for blackwater, they are making and have made tons of money in Iraq. Wouldn't expect to see them gone without a fight. Not to mention they fill roles we don't have enough US soldiers for. Getting rid of them could hurt our own military guys over there.

Trish
10-09-2007, 06:57 AM
Uhh, excuse you Trish, but Iraq is a supposed " sovereign " nation, and I do not believe that it is operating under the U.S. Constitution.

And, as such, if Iraq demands that Blackwater leave its' country, there is no legal argument for it to remain.

And if the State Dept. balks at this, it may be told to exit as well.
The diplomatic efforts are an abject failure anyway.
Crocker is useless.

That embassy compound would make an awesome new presidential place.


I wasn't contending that Iraq act under the US Constitution. I was contending that the US is acting under the US Constitution - due process. Whether the Iraqi's demand that Blackwater leaves Iraq or not is not the issue - the issue was the accusation that our government is not holding Blackwater "accountable." Our government cannot hold Blackwater or its employees accountable without due process. What Iraq does is a completely separate issue, and if the reports given about Blackwater's activities turn out to be remotely true, I can't say I would blame Iraq for not wanting them there. The right of due process is not dependant on what Iraq does or does not do with regard to Blackwater staying in Iraq.

Drocket
10-09-2007, 07:28 AM
'Due process' doesn't apply to contracts, only criminal proceedings. If you want to break your lease, you don't need to prove your landlord guilty beyond a reasonable doubt of a crime - you just pay whatever penalty is spelled out in the contract for early termination.

potter
10-09-2007, 04:56 PM
Uhh, excuse you Trish, but Iraq is a supposed " sovereign " nation, and I do not believe that it is operating under the U.S. Constitution.

And, as such, if Iraq demands that Blackwater leave its' country, there is no legal argument for it to remain.

And if the State Dept. balks at this, it may be told to exit as well.
The diplomatic efforts are an abject failure anyway.
Crocker is useless.

That embassy compound would make an awesome new presidential place.


I wasn't contending that Iraq act under the US Constitution. I was contending that the US is acting under the US Constitution - due process. Whether the Iraqi's demand that Blackwater leaves Iraq or not is not the issue - the issue was the accusation that our government is not holding Blackwater "accountable." Our government cannot hold Blackwater or its employees accountable without due process. What Iraq does is a completely separate issue, and if the reports given about Blackwater's activities turn out to be remotely true, I can't say I would blame Iraq for not wanting them there. The right of due process is not dependant on what Iraq does or does not do with regard to Blackwater staying in Iraq.



Oh...so you want due process for US citizens but none for the folks at Gitmo or those rendition people?

Kyi Yo
10-09-2007, 06:00 PM
In the case where the drunken Blackwater contractor killed the guard working for the Iraqi VP........ The case has been "under investigation" by the Justice Department for nine months. I think it's clear to the Iraqi's and everyone else that this is not going to be any criminal prosecutions brought against any of these private contractors. There hasn't been any yet!

potter
10-09-2007, 07:05 PM
In the case where the drunken Blackwater contractor killed the guard working for the Iraqi VP........ The case has been "under investigation" by the Justice Department for nine months. I think it's clear to the Iraqi's and everyone else that this is not going to be any criminal prosecutions brought against any of these private contractors. There hasn't been any yet!



Blackwater appears to be nothing more than hired assassins given carte blanche by our government to do anything they wish.

It's disturbing that we have so many Americans working overseas with absolutely no moral code. I shudder to think of the havoc they will pull when they return to the US...Assassins above the law...gonna be hard for them to come down from that high.

ViolaLee
10-09-2007, 07:08 PM
I guess we'll find out if the US considers Iraq a soveriegn nation or not.

Not that it matters to us I guess. Iraq under Saddam was a soveriegn nation too, but that didn't stop us from shocking and awing them with cluster bombs and this subsequent occupation.

Deadshot
10-09-2007, 07:14 PM
Since it's a contract, does guilt or innocence, play a role here?

If Blackwater is perceived as corrupt by the Iraqi Govt. then the USA should strive to help, not ignore, an ally and sever the contract. Have it re-bid to another agency, or pay that extra money that went to the contractors to our military personnel.

I don't want these guys convicted without a trial or sent to Gitmo as terrorists. Let them have their day in court. But to not realize the damage to American prestige and P.R. with the Iraqi people while still using Blackwater is plain blindness!

Kill the contract, pay our troops the difference during the re-bid process, involve the Iraqis in the re-bid process, move forward!

Lazarus
10-10-2007, 05:10 AM
Blackwater employees are not protected by Status Of Forces Agreements.
Therefore, if they are accused of committing crimes in foreign countries, they are tried under that countries' laws.
Our Constitution is irrelevant in such circumstances. As is our judicial system. They should be tried under Iraqi authority.

And since some here insist on dragging Gitmo into the mix - are the detainees being tried under the laws of their nations? Obviously not, so let us dispense with this nonsense.

jafar00
10-10-2007, 10:32 AM
Blackwater employees are not protected by Status Of Forces Agreements.
Therefore, if they are accused of committing crimes in foreign countries, they are tried under that countries' laws.


Agreed. Put them in front of the Iraqi courts, and if convicted, hang 'em high in public as an example of what happens to terrorists.

lily
10-11-2007, 02:30 AM
I agree that they should be held accountable to Iraqi law.......but I have to admit, I'm really confused on this. According to this administration anyone not fighting in uniform is an unlawful combatant and treated as such..........Blackwater wears no uniform.

Trish
10-11-2007, 03:41 AM
Blackwater personnel do wear uniforms. Their uniform is all black.

http://dusteye.files.wordpress.com/2007/10/blackwater.jpg?w=397&h=300

tony mitra
10-11-2007, 04:03 AM
We see op-eds jumping on the band wagon - since Blackwater is hot news right now.

One headline states something like - Build a frontier, and you get cowboys. Othes label it a shadowy army, the mercenaries, and one mentions “Blood is thicker than Blackwater”.

But news outlets are also reporting that the State department is seriously considering phasing out Blackwater, as a way to avoid an impasse with the Iraqi Government. The problem is, as I understand, others will have to fill the boots, and those are the largest boots to fill, in Iraq. Meanwhile officials in the tight-knit world of security operatives in Baghdad reportedly said Blackwater was preparing a reorganization and possible downsizing.

Blackwater's secretive corporate culture is reputed to have encouraged a cowboy-like mentality of shoot first and talk later, and could have led to its operatives being trigger happy and more likely to violate, subvert or stretch the existing rules than those of the two other private security firms, Dyncorp and Triple Canopy, that the US state dept uses in Iraq.

So, after a long time, Blackwater finally achieved what it avoided but same time deserved, global media coverage.

This episode would probably go some distance in defining the limits of power of the local Iraqi Govt. Initially the Iraqis wanted the Blackwater guards to be tried for murder in Iraqi courts, and the firm’s license cancelled. But that was a pipe dream of the Iraqi Prime Minister Maliki. His delusion that Iraq might have been a sovereign nation lasted just 15 minutes, till he received a call from Condi Rice, and had to eat his words.
:sadly:

lily
10-12-2007, 12:59 AM
Blackwater personnel do wear uniforms. Their uniform is all black.

http://dusteye.files.wordpress.com/2007/10/blackwater.jpg?w=397&h=300


Thanks Trish. I didn't know. Someone needs to tell these employees they are out of uniform.

http://images.pictopia.com.edgesuite.net/perl/get_image?provider_id=352&ptp_photo_id=ptl:afp:xt-mt-320-1682869&size=320x320_mb



http://wwwimage.cbsnews.com/images/2007/09/18/image3271161g.jpg





http://i.l.cnn.net/cnn/2007/WORLD/meast/09/19/blackwater.iraq/art.scan.afp.gi.jpg