Jewish ownership of American mass media.

[DavoT]

I was curious whether people accept that the bulk of media org's in America are owned/controlled by Jewish people?

I'm not interested in discussing whether that's a good or a bad thing at this point, so could we please confine our discussion to the validity of this claim for the moment?

[Deadshot]

Proof? I.e. the name of the CEO of Viacom or NBC and a source that proves that they are Jewish.

I.E. Rupert Murdoch, owner of FAUX NEWS, is a Christian. SOURCE (http://www.nndb.com/people/420/000023351/)

[DavoT]

I.E. Rupert Murdoch, owner of FAUX NEWS, is a Christian. SOURCE (http://www.nndb.com/people/420/000023351/)[/color]


It says Jewish Ancestry=Maternal......

"""During the 2002 and 2003 build-up to the invasion of Iraq, all of Murdoch's 175 newspapers editorialized for war"""

[Deadshot]

Well what are you looking for here, DavoT?

You stated "I'm not interested in discussing whether that's a good or a bad thing at this point, so could we please confine our discussion to the validity of this claim for the moment? "

I assumed you were speaking of a person who was part of the Jewish religion. If you're just looking at ancestry, what point - if any, would you be trying to make?

Couldn't you just as well ask how many from the media are Americans or from English Ancestory?

I assumed that you were looking for those who were part of Judaism, the religion. But if you're simply looking at ancestory, I don't really understand what you're getting at...

[DavoT]

I was curious whether people accept that the bulk of media org's in America are owned/controlled by Jewish people?

This is what I'm curious about....specifically whether the readers of this forum know/care that the US media is owned and controlled by a tiny ethnic minority?

I must admit when I looked into it, it struck me as strange, even though I actually assumed the percentage of Jews in America was much higher than approx 3%.

[Buck Laser]

I'm really wondering why I should care who owns the mass media. I can think of a lot of things more serious to worry about. Seriously.

[DavoT]

I'm really wondering why I should care who owns the mass media. I can think of a lot of things more serious to worry about. Seriously.


Really....perhaps you haven't thought about it carefully, but it seems to me that the media are responsible for presenting us with the so-called truth, also, the media play a huge role in covering politics/candidates.

Lucky I'm not an Iraqi.

[PatrickHenry]

It's a worthy topic, DavoT.

There is ino doubt that the mass and mainstream media are aligned with Israel's interests.

There may be some objections to the topic on the basis of the antiSemitism canard. Hold your ground.

There is both liberal and conservative pro-Israel bias in the mass/mainstream media, IMO.

It's a New World Order issue that unites left and right in America. Thus my opposition to both sides of the left/right smokescreen.

[DavoT]

There is ino doubt that the mass and mainstream media are aligned with Israel's interests.


It certainly appears that way Patrick.
It always surprises me when people at political forums are either unaware or uninterested in who controls their media, and by extension, who selects their politicians.

You also mentioned anti-Semitism....it's almost as though the Jews/Zionist's regard themselves as exempt from rational enquiry/scrutiny.....which would be fairly tragic considering they own and control the media.

You wonder what they have to hide:exclamation:

[PatrickHenry]

It is important to distinguish between Jews and Zionists.

I like these religious Jews a lot!
http://lexicorient.com/e.o/neturei_karta.htm
http://www.wrmea.com/backissues/1196/9611040.htm
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Judaism/nk.html

[Cobra]

Oh look more Jew paranioa.

[PatrickHenry]

Oh look more Jew paranioa.
The word Jew is a noun. Using it as an adjective is pejorative. Are you sure you wanna be doing that, Cobra?

[Cobra]

Yep I am. I likes it thataway, sounds better.

[Truth_and_Power]

It is important to distinguish between Jews and Zionists.

I like these religious Jews a lot!
http://lexicorient.com/e.o/neturei_karta.htm
http://www.wrmea.com/backissues/1196/9611040.htm
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Judaism/nk.html


Perhaps if this poster were to talk more about ideology and less about race he would appear more credible.

Is Dick Cheney a jew? Bush? Wolfowitz maybe?

[PatrickHenry]

Is Dick Cheney a jew? Bush? Wolfowitz maybe?
Wolfie is for sure. The other two are just warmongers whose views of a profitable MidEast war coincide with the Zionists...

[DavoT]

Oh look more Jew paranioa.


You're comfortable with the media being owned and controlled by a tiny minority?
You're comfortable with bogus wars?

[Truth_and_Power]

Is Dick Cheney a jew? Bush? Wolfowitz maybe?
Wolfie is for sure. The other two are just warmongers whose views of a profitable MidEast war coincide with the Zionists...


Theatre Wars.

[Cobra]

Yep, but maybe cuz unlike some I don't think the evil jews run the world and are always causing problems for everybody to benifit themselves.

[DavoT]

Yep, but maybe cuz unlike some I don't think the evil jews run the world and are always causing problems for everybody to benifit themselves.


Iraqi body count (http://www.iraqbodycount.org/)

Well, one thing we can agree on, is that the war in Iraq isn't benefiting the Iraqi's.:sick:[hr]
Theatre Wars.


Yep, it's all a big joke:shame:

[Cobra]

War hardly ever benifits those where the battles are being fought.

[crimzonsol]

Of course we control the media, we also own everything else indirectly or directly. Why? because we are good at making money. I believe it is 1/7 excutive board members are Jewish though I may be wrong. To say that is part of a plot, well maybe you should look where you posted this thread.

[DavoT]

Of course we control the media,

Are you also in favour of the war on Iraq?
I'm still trying to figure out how the US benefits from the war?.....it certainly hasn't helped their reputation.[hr]
War hardly ever benifits those where the battles are being fought.


People with any moral fibre would like to believe that when a war is started{or a fist fight for that matter}, it's for legitimate reasons.....so could we have your account of why the US attacked Iraq?

[crimzonsol]

Yes, I am in favor of the War in Iraq because if the US gets its shit together It can become a not failure, but that would mean that the Democrats and Republicans would have to agree.

The US did have something to gain, but the ineffective administration after the end of the war means that we can only reach par now.

[DavoT]

Yes, I am in favor of the War in Iraq

The US did have something to gain, but the ineffective administration after the end of the war means that we can only reach par now.


What did the US have to gain, and what was the moral justification for their attack?

[crimzonsol]

The US stood to gain another nation with its entire popualtion indebt to it right next to Iran.

Who needs morals any more? :P
It was apolitical desicion, not a moral one.

[DavoT]

Who needs morals any more? :P
It was apolitical desicion, not a moral one.


Is that the kind of flippant answer you'd give to an Iraqi mother who lost her son whilst he was defending his country?

[crimzonsol]

Yes I would. This was politics, he died because he choose to defend his contry. Besides why should I care about him or her? She can either accept what has happened and move on or she can get upset.

[DavoT]

Yes I would. This was politics, he died because he choose to defend his contry. Besides why should I care about him or her? She can either accept what has happened and move on or she can get upset.


Whoa, what a lovely bloke you turned out to be....are all warmongers this heartless?
As far as I can tell, there was no moral justification for the attack on Iraq, as such, the politicians{selected by a Jewish press} have effectively ruined America's reputation by ordering a mass murder spree.

[crimzonsol]

Thats not my real position, its just that everyone here is going yah I agree, while no one test the Idea. That to me is unacceptable, so if you could bare with me I will play the part of the tester.
On with my persona.
You do not need a moral justification if country is about to be attacked do you? The Jewish press then aren't very Jewsish as they have now put Israel back at war with Syria.

[DavoT]

Thats not my real position,

Just so we're clear.

1...you're claiming to be 15.
2...you accept that the US mass media is Jewish owned/controlled
3...you're also playing devil's advocate

[DavoT]

Detailed article of WHO owns the press (http://www.natall.com/who-rules-america/)

The control of the opinion-moulding media is nearly monolithic. All of the controlled media—television, radio, newspapers, magazines, books, motion pictures—speak with a single voice, each reinforcing the other. Despite the appearance of variety, there is no real dissent, no alternative source of facts or ideas accessible to the great mass of people that might allow them to form opinions at odds with those of the media masters.

They are presented with a single view of the world—a world in which every voice proclaims the equality of the races, the inerrant nature of the Jewish "Holocaust" tale, the wickedness of attempting to halt the flood of non-White aliens pouring across our borders, the danger of permitting citizens to keep and bear arms, the moral equivalence of all sexual orientations, and the desirability of a "pluralistic," cosmopolitan society rather than a homogeneous, White one.

It is a view of the world designed by the media masters to suit their own ends—and the pressure to conform to that view is overwhelming. People adapt their opinions to it, vote in accord with it, and shape their lives to fit it.

=========================

I should point out that I'm not affiliated with the NA....but they've done the research for us:thumbsup:

[crimzonsol]

1...you're claiming to be 15.

Not I am 15.


2...you accept that the US mass media is Jewish owned/controlled

No I accept that US mass media is Owned by Jews. Google is also owned by Jews are you saying that Jews are helping China Irans ally.


3...you're also playing devil's advocate


In respect to that positionyes, but usually I play the part of stating my opinion and being devils addvocate at the same time.

[DavoT]

1...you're claiming to be 15.

Not I am 15.


Many adults are unaware of Jewish ownership of mass media....how did you find out?

[crimzonsol]

I am Jewish and my old school had more than its fair share of Skinheads. I learned alot from them when they wanted to beat us up but there was more of us then them.

[DavoT]

I am Jewish


Ok, but can you tell us whether you truly believe the war and death toll in Iraq is acceptable?

[crimzonsol]

Depends on what you mean. If you mean that I believe that we should have gone to war, yes I do. Do I think what has happened since is acceptable, no it is pure incompentancy.

[DavoT]

Depends on what you mean. If you mean that I believe that we should have gone to war, yes I do. Do I think what has happened since is acceptable, no it is pure incompentancy.


Bearing in mind that even modern wars are responsible for 100 000's of deaths, what was the justification for this war?

[crimzonsol]

The justfication being that Iraq was getting to big for its boots, plus if there really was WMD should we have to wait for the proof in the form of a Mushroom Cloud?

Iraq was a dictatorship I believe that if the people want a democracy we owe to them that right for liberty.

[DavoT]

The justfication being that Iraq was getting to big for its boots, plus if there really was WMD should we have to wait for the proof in the form of a Mushroom Cloud?

Iraq was a dictatorship I believe that if the people want a democracy we owe to them that right for liberty.


A possible threat to Israel you mean...?
Btw, what other countries are the US planning on liberating?

Also, I don't recall the weapons inspectors finding any WMD:shock:

[crimzonsol]

Yes and to everyone else in that region.

If by liberating you mean what has happened after, none I hope. I thought they had an actual plan besides fuck everything up because they were pushing so hard for war.

You are right, however you still did not anwser my question. If we suspect that onther country has WMD and they want to destroy us, should we have to wait for the proof to come in the form of a Mushroom Cloud?

[DavoT]

You are right, however you still did not anwser my question. If we suspect that onther country has WMD and they want to destroy us, should we have to wait for the proof to come in the form of a Mushroom Cloud?


No evidence of WMD was found, so what was your suspicion based on?

[Scorpion]

You are right, however you still did not anwser my question. If we suspect that onther country has WMD and they want to destroy us, should we have to wait for the proof to come in the form of a Mushroom Cloud?


No evidence of WMD was found, so what was your suspicion based on?


Hussein's previous use of WMDs against his own people would cause a suspicion of his continued development of such weapons.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halabja_poison_gas_attack

[AnnEsthesia]

There is suspicion that Israel has WMD's and they have shown that they are not adverse to attacking neighboring countries. Do they need to wait for the mushroom cloud, or is it all right for them to build their military against the imminent threat?

[WarriorTheKnown]

I was curious whether people accept that the bulk of media org's in America are owned/controlled by Jewish people?

I guess us Jews are doing something right. :ecstatic:

[bobbylien]

What happened Labroca? Did those Jews pay you to move this thread here?

[crimzonsol]

There is suspicion that Israel has WMD's and they have shown that they are not adverse to attacking neighboring countries. Do they need to wait for the mushroom cloud, or is it all right for them to build their military against the imminent threat?


I think what you meant to say is Israel has WMD and they have used them against their neighbours who started the war.
I don't think that Israel would consider bombing Any of its enighbours due to the fact that they are neighbours.


No evidence of WMD was found, so what was your suspicion based on?


Again I shall restate my question. If we suspect any country of developing WMDs to use against us, should we have to wait for the Proof to come in the form of a Mushroom Cloud?

------------------
Damn Right We are WarriorTheKnown, we are Jewish what else would we be doing?

[AnnEsthesia]

No, please do not put words in my mouth, crim. I said what I meant, thanks.

If it is 'ok' for Israel to ramp up for war, then it is also ok for others to do it as well. That is the problem with that region. Every one is willing to stand up for themselves and no one is wrong to do it.

[crimzonsol]

I was just correcting you on facts, They Have WMD and They Have Used Them, sorry if I made it seem like I was putting words in your mouth.

I agree with your point, but the question is who do we support?

[AnnEsthesia]

I am personally sick of them all and think we need to stop wasting money and let them sort it out all on their own.

[crimzonsol]

Even if it means that they come out of it as a very effcient fighting machine and hating us?

[AnnEsthesia]

Then the Jewish Nation would have shown they have no morals and have no gratitude for all that we have done for them. We have propped them up since their conception and they are, at this point, more then able to protect themselves. We need to start spending our money here at home instead of sinking it into Israel where we will never see it returned.

[DavoT]

No evidence of WMD was found, so what was your suspicion based on?


Again I shall restate my question. If we suspect any country of developing WMDs to use against us, should we have to wait for the Proof to come in the form of a Mushroom Cloud?


http://media.www.nyunews.com/media/storage/paper869/news/2004/03/22/UndefinedSection/Hans-Blix.To.Nyu.Crowd.there.Were.No.Wmd.In.Iraq-2390174.shtml

Former chief U.N. weapons inspector Hans Blix told an NYU crowd last week that he doesn't believe Iraq had weapons of mass destruction and thinks the United States made a mistake by going to war on the grounds of "anticipatory self-defense."

http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq/2004-03-02-un-wmd_x.htm

UNITED NATIONS — A report from U.N. weapons inspectors to be released today says they now believe there were no weapons of mass destruction of any significance in Iraq after 1994, according to two U.N. diplomats who have seen the document[hr]
at this point, more then able to protect themselves.

Good point AnnEsthesia.
Israel's army ranks in the top 10, ahead of Iraq's, so why do USA/AUS/ENG need to kill and die.

[crimzonsol]

Maybe you missed the underline part, ANY Country not Iraq, ANY country. Was that clear?


Then the Jewish Nation would have shown they have no morals and have no gratitude for all that we have done for them. We have propped them up since their conception and they are, at this point, more then able to protect themselves. We need to start spending our money here at home instead of sinking it into Israel where we will never see it returned.


When I said what I said I meant what if Israel Lost and The other people got all that tech?

[AnnEsthesia]

Then we would deal with it, just like we would deal with it if someone invaded North Korea and got their tech, or if someone got control of Russia and got all of their weaponry. How about we deal with actual and real problems instead of what ifs and maybes?

[crimzonsol]

Well considering Israel and Syria are at war it doesn't seem like a what if any more.

How would we do it, Isn't Israel like the only power in that area other than turkey, which probably would go over to Russia since we seem to be droping helping our allies.

[AnnEsthesia]

No, they are not at war, unless I missed the declaration. Though I agree, they both are acting warlike and neither is innocent in this respect. They all need to grow up and work it out, which will never happen if we are sitting there kissing Israel's ass and telling them we will support them no matter what boneheaded moves they make.

[crimzonsol]

The declaration happened about thirty years ago, Israel and Syria are still officially at war. I just didn't mention that because I assumed that people still knew.
We do need to support them, but I do agree that they need to get their shit together and attack or STFU, they keep trying to provoke Syria in to Attacking. This is as much a propaganda war as it is aa actual war.

[DavoT]

This is as much a propaganda war as it is a actual war.


What about the actual bogus war in Iraq?

[crimzonsol]

That is of less importance in the grand scheme of things, except that it has put the show down in the middle east on a time table.

And I do not think that Israel put the US up to invading Iraq, because if Israel had a hand in it, it would not have fucked up so royaly

[DavoT]

That is of less importance in the grand scheme of things, except that it has put the show down in the middle east on a time table.

And I do not think that Israel put the US up to invading Iraq, because if Israel had a hand in it, it would not have fucked up so royaly


What was the rational basis of this ME showdown again?
Also, anyone who bothers to investigate the issue of Zionism and Jewish dominance and prominence is the US, would have no choice but to conclude that the US is doing Israel's bidding by-proxy.

[crimzonsol]

What was the rational basis of this ME showdown again?

Are you asking why I think there is going to be one or wether it is justifiable?


Also, anyone who bothers to investigate the issue of Zionism and Jewish dominance and prominence is the US, would have no choice but to conclude that the US is doing Israel's bidding by-proxy.


They both are each others bitches, I bet if you look in their newspapers you would not see much critiqueing the US.

[DavoT]

Are you asking why I think there is going to be one or wether it is justifiable?

They both are each others bitches, I bet if you look in their newspapers you would not see much critiqueing the US.


Yes, why is attacking Iraq justifiable?

Of course the US and Israel are in each others pockets, it's the same government{ZOG}....LOL.

[crimzonsol]

Yes, why is attacking Iraq justifiable?

I already anwsered that question before. Besides I do not get how talking about how the Middle east is going to turn in to a ware zone.

I think we are geting alittle of topic here, but I am intrested to see where we go from here.

[DavoT]

Yes, why is attacking Iraq justifiable?

I already anwsered that question before. Besides I do not get how talking about how the Middle east is going to turn in to a ware zone.



I'm suggesting that the Bush government lied to us about WMD, and used that as an excuse to supposedly liberate Iraq from Saddy.....now, if there's no evidence of WMD, then there must have been another reason why the US attacked, and I can't see how it was justified.

Also, I don't appreciate having my media dictated to me by Israel.

100 000's of people from both sides of this conflict have been killed, prolly as many injured.....for what and for whose benefit?

[crimzonsol]

Jews own the media, that does not mean that Israel is dictating the news.
Jews also own google, google helped china, china helps Iran. Unless you can explain this to me you entire point is invalid.


I'm suggesting that the Bush government lied to us about WMD, and used that as an excuse to supposedly liberate Iraq from Saddy.....now, if there's no evidence of WMD, then there must have been another reason why the US attacked, and I can't see how it was justified.


Probably to spead up the Middle East Melt down so that we can make sure governments that are our friends are instaled through out the middle east.


100 000's of people from both sides of this conflict have been killed, prolly as many injured.....for what and for whose benefit?


Its politics everyone wants power, like in shrek when the king guy said, "Some of you may die, but thats a scarifice I am willing to make." Everyone is guilty of it. The only thing we can do is help those that have goals that are the same as our own. That is the sad truth.

[DavoT]

Jews own the media, that does not mean that Israel is dictating the news.
Jews also own google, google helped china, china helps Iran. Unless you can explain this to me you entire point is invalid.


It depends on what you believe WRT to the scope of Zionism, but it seems to me that America is serving Israel{money, weapons, soldiers, political friendship}.....why do you suppose that is unless Israel/Zionist's are pulling the strings?

Also, I'm somewhat mystified how a nation of 24million minus WMD poses a threat to the US{300million+ the largest defence forces in the world+ WMD}....?

[preservanation]

I read a little of this thread and it sickens me.
Stop with the age old racism and bigotry against the Jews!
This is centuries old and I will say it again..."Never Again"!

[crimzonsol]

It depends on what you believe WRT to the scope of Zionism, but it seems to me that America is serving Israel{money, weapons, soldiers, political friendship}.....why do you suppose that is unless Israel/Zionist's are pulling the strings?


Because Israel is an important place in the Middle East power Struggle.


Also, I'm somewhat mystified how a nation of 24million minus WMD poses a threat to the US{300million+ the largest defence forces in the world+ WMD}....?


Because Iraq is an important area in the power sturggle in the Middle East, where else would you start if you were going to try and install friendly governments in the Middle East?

[DavoT]

I read a little of this thread and it sickens me.
Stop with the age old racism and bigotry against the Jews!
This is centuries old and I will say it again..."Never Again"!


So you hate the truth?
What's racist about the truth?

[preservanation]

Nothing..
but what you propose to do about it?
Eh?
The solution to these perceived problems always seem to be the "Final Solution".

[DavoT]

Because Israel is an important place in the Middle East power Struggle.
Because Iraq is an important area in the power sturggle in the Middle East


Why is the ME our priority?.....have you heard anything about installing friendly governments elsewhere?
Also, how was Iraq a threat to Israel....remember, Israel has one of the best equipped defence forces in the world, plus the weapons inspectors told George W that there was no evidence of WMD, IOW, not only was the US safe, but so was Israel.

[preservanation]

I worked this young kid who had the same sort of distrust and hate for Jews.
When I asked him why, he said it was because they were ruining his life (he never knew or had contact with any Jews to speak of).
Is this similar to your circumstance, Davo?

[DavoT]

I worked this young kid who had the same sort of distrust and hate for Jews.


Are you denying Jewish ownership of Amercian mass media?
I'm anti-Zionist btw, and I have no reason to be anti-Jewish unless I knew with some degree of certainty that Judaism was a Satanic cult or something along those lines.

Remember, most Zionist's are Jews, and I can't be sure which Jew is or isn't a Zionist, as such, I have no choice but to discuss "Jewish" ownership of the mass media.

[preservanation]

Are you denying Jewish ownership of American mass media?I am not aware of this fact.
Now you are mixing Zionists with Jews? Can you offer proof that Jews control our media and that they are, as I assume you are convinced, that they are using it toward some nefarious aim?
Furthermore this is America, unlike fascist states, Jews can own what they want, and so can anybody.
What's your problem with that?
This thread stinks of the foul burning odor of hate and antisemitism.

[crimzonsol]

Why is the ME our priority?

Oil, Iran and Russia.

Have you heard anything about installing friendly governments elsewhere?

Do we need to? Asia and The Middle East are the only place in contest.

Also, how was Iraq a threat to Israel....remember, Israel has one of the best equipped defence forces in the world, plus the weapons inspectors told George W that there was no evidence of WMD, IOW, not only was the US safe, but so was Israel.

Welcome to politics and the realm of "acceptable" losses. We needed to kick someones ass in the Middle East might as well be someone that has no value to us.

[DavoT]

Are you denying Jewish ownership of American mass media?I am not aware of this fact.
Now you are mixing Zionists with Jews? Can you offer proof that Jews control our media and that they are, as I assume you are convinced,


Might be an idea to read the thread before jumping in half way and half assed....otherwise you just make an ass of yourself.

[crimzonsol]

Are you denying Jewish ownership of American mass media?I am not aware of this fact.
Now you are mixing Zionists with Jews? Can you offer proof that Jews control our media and that they are, as I assume you are convinced,


Might be an idea to read the thread before jumping in half way and half assed....otherwise you just make an ass of yourself.


Lets ignore him and concentrate on what we were talking about before.

[DavoT]

My 35, I mean 15 yr old friend....I might be busy until Monday, if not I'll pop back sooner:thumbsup:

[crimzonsol]

My 35, I mean 15 yr old friend


What is it going to take to convince you that I am 15?

[DavoT]

What is it going to take to convince you that I am 15?


Don't worry......if everyone else thinks you're a 15 yr old, then who cares what my opinion is:peace:

[crimzonsol]

What is it going to take to convince you that I am 15?


Don't worry......if everyone else thinks you're a 15 yr old, then who cares what my opinion is:peace:


No seriously why do you think I am older than fifteen?

[DavoT]

No seriously why do you think I am older than fifteen?


Mainly because I suspect most pro-Zionist's to be adults, ie, paid employee's.

[JenifJ]

Asking, if Jewish ownership of American mass media is a good thing, is like asking, is it a good thing that criminals control public opinion.

Judaism is a dogma that creates a criminal mind set which is centered around the collective control over the individual hiding behind the ideology that race and religion, is a protected phenomenon. There is no such thing as race and one's religion is only a claim of membership to a collective mind set which is a fiction in reality, so it is nothing more than a con-game to perpetrate organized crime.

It all boils down to one's actions are the manifestation of one's beliefs. These criminals hide behind mass media promoting their sick criminal mentality in order to carry on their criminal behavior. An organized crime syndicate.

[DavoT]

Oddly enough, some people refuse to even acknowledge the fact that Jews dominate the mass media, even in the face of all the evidence.....I call these people "stupid".

[JenifJ]

It is not that "Jews dominate". It is that the criminal mentality that Judaism creates, dominates the mass media, creating the herd mentality for colletive control. A Jew is only one that believes, promotes and defends, collective control (Judaism).

[crimzonsol]

Asking, if Jewish ownership of American mass media is a good thing, is like asking, is it a good thing that criminals control public opinion.

Judaism is a dogma that creates a criminal mind set which is centered around the collective control over the individual hiding behind the ideology that race and religion, is a protected phenomenon. There is no such thing as race and one's religion is only a claim of membership to a collective mind set which is a fiction in reality, so it is nothing more than a con-game to perpetrate organized crime.

It all boils down to one's actions are the manifestation of one's beliefs. These criminals hide behind mass media promoting their sick criminal mentality in order to carry on their criminal behavior. An organized crime syndicate.


Thank you, but we already have enough reasons to instigate Capital Punishment. Your contribution to that list is greatly appriciated.

DavoT, you still have not anwsered my question about google helping China. Untill such time that you do, I will have to assume that you are atempting to subvert people for other reasons.

[DavoT]

DavoT, you still have not anwsered my question about google helping China.

Help China do what?

[tony mitra]

This topic was started, I think, on issues of if Jews own America’s mass media. It seems to have veered some.

This question would have been a virtual taboo in the 1950s or 1960s. The very fact that it is being debated, here and elsewhere, would be proof that the Jews at least do not have a stranglehold on mass media, unless we do not consider internet debate forums outside of mass media.

But, like most things, there is no absolute black and white. It is very likely that in the early decades after the second world war, the American publishing industry, which more or less was the primary avenue for mass media, was largely controlled by Jews or people either sympathetic to Jews or were unwilling to go against them.

The best proof of that, which I can think of, is the life history of Douglas Reed. Reed was a well known journalist, columnist and writer, and had several internationally acclaimed books to his name through the 1930s, 1940s and 1950s, many of them were translated into many languages.

Then in the 1950s he got on the wrong side of the Jews, and got labeled an anti-Semite. Some of his books on international politics of the time did covers issue such as the Zionist State, and particularly of the creation of the State of Israel, and its treatment of the Arab Palestinians.

More importantly, he visited all the major concentration camps in Europe soon after the end of WWII, and did his independent research and analysis of the body count of the holocaust, and came back with a figure of total Jews exterminated in those camps to be roughly half of the Jewish claim, or about 3 million people instead of 6 million. He also claimed that an event as important as the holocaust, needed to be thoroughly investigated by international bodies of investigators and the actual body count be subjected to serious scrutiny. He accused the Jews, indirectly, or greatly inflating the body count in order to gain an advantage in instilling a greater sense of guilt in the European mind, and to use that as a tool for demand for a homeland.

Anyhow, he ran foul of the Jews, and soon found out that nobody either in the US or in Europe would agree to publish any of his books any more. Not just that, but his old employers in the London Time and the literary circle, where he was famous at a time, would shun him. His name gradually started disappearing from magazines, journals and bookstores. His books, once selling in millions, dried out and vanished. And then his name vanished from the world of authors, composers, intellectuals and such. He more or less vanished from worlds eyes.

The man, perhaps bitter, migrated to South Africa and lived the rest of his life there, and died sometime in the 1980s. I read a few of his books, when I was given second hand copies of some of his books by friend in Cape Town when I visited South Africa recently. He wrote well, and had a very interesting style. Although he was not too polite in his analysis of various people, including the Indian diaspora in South Africa of the 1950s, I had to admit he spoke what he considered to be fair and true, albeit from a typical English point of view (he was a born Englishman). However, I found that he often mentioned the Zionist State in a negative light and particularly criticized the way Israel encroached into the middle east.

I also noticed that he sort of accused the East European Jews to have taken control of the world Jewry, and to have influenced it to tilt towards a hard core right wing Zionist agenda.

One way or another, he got on the wrong side of the Jews in the 1950s and that resulted in his literary life to be ruined from that point on. He was very effectively gagged for the rest of his life.

Anyhow, I would say Douglas Reed is the best example of Jewish interests working against any one that attempts to criticize Zionism.

But that was then.

Now, I do not believe Jews have anything similar to that kind of a hold. However, something else has happened within the US now. The US foreign policy often blindly supports the Israeli position, and meanwhile, the freedom of press as I understand it, is more or less gone sour in the mainstream media (exceptions aside). As a result, American Mainstream media has pretty much become a mouthpiece of the Official US Government thinking. And therefore, owned by Jews or not, it does not seem to spend sufficient time to check issues that might be against the Israeli interest, such as human rights and political freedom issues of the Arabs around Palestine, or Israel's own WMD program.

Crim,

I would argue that I do not consider Google to be owned by Jews. Sergei Brin might have been born in Moscow out of Jewish mother and father, but I believe he is no more Jew in his core belief than he is a human or a Buddhist. Further, he is only one of the two founders. And lastly, whenever one opens up his company as a public limited firm where anyone can purchase shares, the major shareholders dilute their own holdings and thereby dilute their individual influence and let the shareholders collectively drive the firm. The good side of it is that it accumulates great deal of funds for rapid growth. The bad side is no one controls the company single handedly any more. I believe Time Warner owns a billion dollars worth of shares of Google. Also, Google helping China is an absurd argument. China uses Google search, but it also has its own search engine which is very popular in China and almost unknown outside of China - the Baidu search engine (http://www.baidu.com/).

It is just my perception, that the problems of the US mass media today is less to do with Jews, and more symptom of a deeper internal decease of the soceity, and Jews are perhaps being used a scapegoat.

I also suggest, Crim, that you try and read some of Douglas Reed’s books. Like it or not, you should to read them.

Cheers
:)

[crimzonsol]

Intresting post Tony. I would also like to point out that maybe nobody prints things against Israel because people do not want to read it. They would rather read about terrorism. Another point Tony, most Jews outside of Israel are buddhists, because the religious leaders have either moved to Israel or were killed in the holohcaust. This has lead to a large majority of Jews to seek spritual fufliment (something that is not in judaism). Buddhism holds similiar beliefs to those in Judaism, so it was natural that many Jews would follow Buddhist teachings. Just so you know.

Do you know where I can get any of his books? I would like to read them.

[DavoT]

This question would have been a virtual taboo in the 1950s or 1960s. The very fact that it is being debated, here and elsewhere, would be proof that the Jews at least do not have a stranglehold on mass media, unless we do not consider internet debate forums outside of mass media.



Tony....I've been banned 30+ times trying to discuss Zionism/Israel/Judaism, so despite the relative freedom we "seem" to have at this message board, the internet is manned by censorious pigs....and these pigs have a hard on for protecting the triad from scrutiny.

I provided factual evidence that the Jews dominate US mass media, yet some knucklehead pounced on me in this thread and hollered anti-semite at the top of his lungs.

The Zionist's have brainwashed young and dumb American soldiers to kill and die for the sake of Israel's security....that's 100 000's of murders{bogus war} engineered by the Zionist's.

The US foreign policy often blindly supports the Israeli position,....I wonder why?....could it be that you have a ZOMM/ZOG....I'm thinking you do:evil:

[JenifJ]

Now, I do not believe Jews have anything similar to that kind of a hold.



It is the mind set of collective control that has the hold.

There is no such thing as a "Jew", where Christianity/Islam are only regurgitated Judaism (collectivism) used as the controlled opposition in the dialectic of collective control. In Judaism, one has to be "born a Jew" in order to get saved (collective control); where as in Christianity, one has to be saved through Christ (collective control) or in Islam, one who submits to God (collective control).

"Religion" is only a label of distinction given to the mechanism of collectivism.

Tony, in "The Controversy of Zion" (1951), it is clear that Reed understands how this mind set has pledged human existence and is a shit-stain on humanity from the beginning. My inference is that Reed didn't have the chance to understand the significance of the DNA molecule discovered in 1953, that which you are also lacking.

[tony mitra]

Crim,

I think you can find a few second hand books through Amazon. But, for a man that wrote nearly twenty books, you will be lucky to find two or three on Amazon. Libraries might or might not have them, but as years pass by, and Reed died twenty years or so ago, tattered copies of his books, I am told, and beginning to reappear here and there. There is also some rumor that he dismantled the royalty for his books and allowed them to be freely copied and distributed to whoever wanted, before he died. I am not sure of details. Mind it, he died just before internet and mass communication appeared on the world scene. You might therefore google Douglas Reed and find his books in plain text or pdf or something freely distributed somewhere.

I had read the very first of his famous publications, "Insanity Fair" which was published just before the war, in 1938, I think. That book had almost nothing of Zionism, although Jews were mentioned here and there, mostly from his recollection of his own childhood in England where he came across Jews, among others. In this book he was quite critical of Hitler's global ambitions, and he wrote at a time when the rest of Europe was still not convinced Hitler was going to be a menace. It was only after the war broke out that he became famous for having predicted it years in advance when no one wanted to listen to him.

In that sense, you could say that Reed was often ahead of his time, and wrote of things people did not like to read at the time he wrote them.

I read another book, "Somewhere South of Suez" published in 1950 or 1951. That too was a wonderfully eloquent book, but covered places outside of Europe, such as South Africa, and especially the middle east. It was here that he started mentioning the Zionist state, though the main focus was perhaps not on Israel per se, but about all the goings on in the world after the end of the war. He spent a lot of time, for example, discussing South Africa and its ethnic mix, its apartheid, and the fundamental difference between the English speaking and the Boer white men there, along with the local Black tribes, the asians, the Hindu, the Muslims, Christians, the traders and the movers and shakers of the region.

I liked his writing style, even if he was not too complimentary of either the whites, or the blacks, or Asians or the Zionists.

One could however, find traces in this book that would disturb a passionate Jew, especially on issues of the state of Israel, if not about Judaism per se.

However, I believe it was a later book, called either "Question of Zionism" or "Issue of Zionism" or something like that, where he directly dealt with Zionism as against Judaism, and the politicizing of the religion etc, and perhaps made his harshest criticism of the State of Israel. I have not read the book, but believe that was the book that finally ticked the Jews off, and he found himself against a brick wall, where nobody wanted to publish any of his books any more, nobody wanted to see him or talk to him any more, and his older books started disappearing from the shelves.

From that point on, he because invisible, and literally vanished from the world.

I do not know if you can find that particular book or not. But going by the two books I read, I can understand why he was so popular and highly regarded, till he fell foul of the Jews. But I can honestly tell you, you should read his books if you can get your hands on them. You do not need to always agree to everything he wrote, but you would enrich yourself reading of a world so colorfully described by him of a time that is now past, but were critical years which shaped the issues that dog us even today.

Good luck.

DavoT,

That's saddening to know that you have been banned 30+ times because of your wish to discuss the Jewish religion, or its Zionist faction, or the state of Israel. If Al Qaeda world view, a twisted offshoot of mainstream Islam, can be discussed, or if right wing Christianity, Hinduism, Kosovo, ethnic cleansing, Pol Pot, Tiananmen Square massacre in China, Abu Graib prison, Darfur or whatever, can be discussed openly, it is strange to think that the Jews or Israel should be offered an exemption.

Perhaps it is in the tone of your comments, rather than the content, that offended folks? Nobody is banning you here, and we even have Crim, born of Jewish parents, freely joining in this discussion.

Israel, Palestine and their influence on peace on the greater middle east issues is a well known factor, and goes beyond just internal issues of Israel of Jews. Everybody talks about them all the time.

Incidentally Jimmy Carter recently wrote a book which is widely available today. it is called "Palestine: Peace Not Apartheid ". He says pretty much the same thing Douglas Reed predicted would happen back in 1950s. Reed predicted that for the next 50 years, skirmishes and extended wider warfare, this time between Muslims and Jews, directly or through proxies, will continue, turning the region into a perpetual state of war, because of the Palestine/Israel question. He predicted that England, by forcing Israel onto the Palestinians, has disturbed a hornets nest that did not need to be disturbed. He also predicted that the Jews had no idea what they were walking into, and if they needed peace, that was the last thing they were going to get.

Jimmy Carter, fifty years later, used the term "Apartheid" in the title of his book, to explain Israel's treatment of the Palestinians. Reed was gagged. But Carter has not been. Reed was a talented and eloquent writer, whereas Carter is ordinary, but speaks from his heart. Reed was a writer with a journalistic background, whereas Carter relied heavily on his previous efforts to broker peace as a US President, and also drew heavily from his basic Christian values of fairness. I read Carter's book myself, buying it off a main stream book store here in Vancouver. The book is selling briskly, and if prominently displayed near the entrance to the store.

This is another reason I believe times have changed between 1950s and this new millennia. The world too has changed. And Jews do not control mass media the way they did at the times of Mr. Douglas Reed of 1950s. Besides, Europe and USA do not any more define the global mass media. More english books are bought and sold in India, I am told, than all of Europe, for example. I do not know who controls the media there, but it is certainly not Jews. Also, more Chinese translation of western books are sold in China, than translation of books into Japanese or Swedish or French, for example.

It is my guess, that there is now room for healthy discussions of the past and the present, with attempting to guess the future, on all issues including the middle east and the Arab/Israeli question. What we need, perhaps, is a bit of civility from both sides, along with a bit of tolerance for views we might not agree with.

I feel hopeful, that you will not be banned here.

Anyhow, what is ZOMM/ZOG ? Never heard of that before.
Cheers. :)

[PatrickHenry]

Zionist Occupied Mass Media, Zionist Occupied Government. They are usually used by extremist white separatists and such.

If you want to read The Controversy of Zion online:
http://knud.eriksen.adr.dk/Controversybook/

[DavoT]

DavoT,

If Al Qaeda world view, a twisted offshoot of mainstream Islam, can be discussed, or if right wing Christianity, Hinduism, Kosovo, ethnic cleansing, Pol Pot, Tiananmen Square massacre in China, Abu Graib prison, Darfur or whatever, can be discussed openly, it is strange to think that the Jews or Israel should be offered an exemption.

, What we need, perhaps, is a bit of civility from both sides, along with a bit of tolerance for views we might not agree with.

I feel hopeful, that you will not be banned here.
Anyhow, what is ZOMM/ZOG ? Never heard of that before.
Cheers. :)


You've hit the nail on the head Tony.....we can discuss almost any other subject without having slurs like racist/anti-semite, skinhead hurled at us....but generally speaking, once someone mentions any of the "triggers"{Judaism/Zionism/Israel}, one must be extremely careful how one expresses his thoughts.

Without being rude to you, I'm not sure whether it matters that much what the actual % of control the Jews have over western media, because they still weild political/murderous power, IOW, I want evil scum removed and accountable for their actions even "if" their control can be roughly defined as 75% vs 95% 40-50yrs ago.

You obviously know me from the "atheism" thread, and you should know that I'm an Objectivist philosopher or sorts, and not prone to first strike ad hom, ie, my facts and logical conclusions were responsible for my bans, not my tone....anyway, as you've just mentioned, no-one should feel intimidated when trying to rationally discuss any aspect of international politics.

I want to draw your attention to the fact that this is now a sizeable thread, yet it was started and remains in the "conspiracy theory" section of this message board.

ZOMM=Zionist occupied mass media.
ZOG=Zionist occupied government.

[JenifJ]

ZOG, is the mind set of collective control that uses "Government said", because a person with an IQ above a rock can understand that "God said", is a fraud. The sock puppet mentality can't con the masses of today. These brain dead individuals that still believe in the concept of race (born a Jew) try to slander a sovereign thinking individual as "extremist white separatists and such", because they have seen through their illegitimate control mechanism (the sock puppet).

Collectivism, which is the subjugation of individual rights and sovereignty for the benefit of the group, is a crime against humanity.

[tony mitra]

HI everyone,

Thanks for clarifying some items. The book in question was named "Controversy of Zion" and not what I wrote "Issue of Zionism" etc.

And thanks Patrick Henry for the link. I might look it over. I remember the style of writing of Douglas Reed and liked it. I was sort of amazed to learn he was made to disappear merely because of his views.

DavoT,

Thanks for your post. Actually, I did read your comments on atheism, and did agree with some of your views on it. You do not appear hateful or the type that I would ban, if I was the person in charge anywhere.

That is why, I am saddened and puzzled, on why you were banned. Like I posted in the previous one, Carter can write a book applying the world "Apartheid" to describe Israeli treatment of the Palestinians. Surely, apartheid is a very strong, and racially tinted accusation. Also, there is Noam Chomsky. I do not know of any other person that is less strong worded than Chomsky, in criticizing both the US policy in the middle east and Israel as well as Israeli foreign policy. And even he is not gagged.

Perhaps we can gently remove this glass wall, as you mention, on these boards, removing this exemption for the Jews. All we need to do, perhaps, is not throw a brick at this glass wall, but gently lift it and set it aside.

JenifJ,

Howdi.

Thanks for mentioning the right name of the book "Controversy of Zion". I however did not get your meaning about DNA. Are you suggesting that Douglad Reed did not and I do not, have any DNA ? Or are you implying that the Jews have some specific DNA that makes them genetically programmed to control the mass media?

With all due respect to the human genome study, I have known for a fact through my own life experience, that Jews are no more smarter or dumber than I am, and the same goes for the Chinese, the Sudanese, the Kenyans, the Iraqi, the Tibetans, or Norwegians, and if I was to guess, the Pigmy or the inhabitants of the pago pago islands.

In fact, if the Jews were really smart, they should have stayed in Europe, and created more babies. If they were impossible to compete with, then the diamond trade of the world would not have shifted gradually away from the hands of the Jewish merchants in Antwerp, to the Gujarati ones from India, over the past 50 years. In fact, I might add that the Patels (that tiny community of traders from India) are the greatest economic threat the Jewish diaspora is facing around the world today. Even inside the US, half of all motels are now owned by the Patels, (thus the phrase - Potels). The same is happening to Wall Street and the global financial market. That is why two of the five fastest growing emerging private banks of the world today, as listed by Forbes are from India and none of the five are controlled by Jews.

Its a different world today, and the Chinese have more money than the Jews.

So what about DNA?

Cheers.
:)

[crimzonsol]

I would like to say that I enjoyed the disscusion up until this point, but now things are getting stupid. Everybody seems to have too strong of convictions for us to have a profitable debate, as neither of us seems to be willing to change their positions. I do not think I can contribute anything else meaningful here. I will try to become alittle more open minded on this Issue, I suggest you do the same. After that we may be able have a more benifitial debate with out a poster who seems intent on rambling even though nobody seems to be paying attention.
DavoT, the reason you have to be careful is because Jews have started to fight back against anti-semitism, unfortunatly you may become a casualty in the fight back against anti-Semitism.
Tony, thank you for the information. I will look into his books.

[DavoT]

DavoT,
That is why, I am saddened and puzzled, on why you were banned. Like I posted in the previous one, Carter can write a book applying the world "Apartheid" to describe Israeli treatment of the Palestinians.


I joined the net in 2001, and it was much worse back then.....I do find it's easier to discuss the triad these days, but if you look at this thread as an example, the moderators are comfortable with the idea that other members can call me a racist/anti-semite{which I consider to be a blatant ad hom}.

Hurling the "R" word is a debate thwarting tactic.....it demands some form of action/censorship be taken against anyone who chooses to discuss the negative aspects of the triad....now of course, if the Jews/Zionist's were so squeaky clean, then they'd merely expose any logical and factual errors in my comments.

WRT the Carter example.....Jimmy was generally considered intelligent and decent{likeable}, so any attack upon him would be high profile, whereas my comments can be deleted and my account banned and the world doesn't skip a beat.

The undeniable fact is that the Jews have a special status, ie, they're a protected species.....I consider that to be a ridiculous privilege, and one that was engineered via the ownership of a specific and influential mass media.

Ask almost anybody about the media's integrity, the quality of TV/radio content, and most people will happily declare the bulk of it to be junk, however, when you point out that a specific group is responsible, you're in hot water, ie, they've gone all pavlovian on you{any mention of the triad elicits a typical response of disbelief and claims of anti-semitism}.

[JenifJ]

Hi Tony,

One can not have an understanding of the genetic biological reproductive process and still believe in the concept of race, "One is born a Jew" promoted by the Torah (Five books of Moses). This means Moses no more talked to God, than you are Jesus Christ. The foundation of the dogma is built on a lie.

My contention is that if Reed truly understood the concept of race is false, he wouldn't have played the game that behind the problem is "the Jew" and couldn't have been attacked as being a "anti-Semite (race)" . If race doesn't exist then how can an anti-Semite exist.

The concept of race is only an illegitimate control mechanism perpetrating a fraud constructing a political system centered around "God's Chosen"; devised by the dogma.

[tony mitra]

jenifJ,

Hi and thanks for clearing that. I wholly agree then, that Reed was smart enough to figure out and state what should have been obvious. Race is a pretty stupid theory of driving a wedge between people, and religion has often been used as the chisel to drive that racial wedge. That is one reason I am rather suspicious of all kinds of Holy Men that talk only one brand of religion, essentially excluding all others.

Good of you to point it out. You are a cool one. Both you and DavoT get a greenie from me. :)

Hi DavoT,

Thats good. We agree, things are getting a tad better. A;ls, I’d like to emulate the Carter example. He was considered a decent man and hence gagging him would not have gone well. I hope I too can be a decent bloke, in my little world, and hopefully others would offer me a free voice on the same grounds, i.e. I remain as decent as Carter has.

In a nutshell, everything is forever changing, and that includes the Jewish control.

In ten years, you might even turn against the Chinese lobby, or the Indian lobby, or who knows, perhaps even the Palestinian lobby. :lmao:

Crim,

There is always something to learn out of open discussions, even with people you might not always agree with.


Here is anther book you might consider reading, from the library. This is a reasonably innocent one, and hence not banned by anybody.

http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/51CZMQSR36L._AA240_.jpg

The name of the book is; Tribes: How Race, Religion and Identity Determine Success in the New Global Economy

IT is written by Joel Kotkin. I have no idea if he is Jew or not. But I have read excerpts from it, comments about it, and intend to read it.

What is it about?
Well, quote from Amazon

From Publishers Weekly
Kotkin relates tribal values to economic prosperity in this analysis of ethnicity and the global economy.
Copyright 1994 Reed Business Information, Inc.

From Library Journal
Francis Fukuyama, move over. The theory of individualism as the prime motivator in a new world system is being challenged. Kotkin, an economic reporter and coauthor of The Third Century (Crown, 1988) here offers a different paradigm for the future of the global economy, asserting that ethnic solidarity has been and will continue to be an important force in world business. Kotkin focuses on five groups: Jewish, British, Chinese, Japanese, and Indian.

In trying to explain the material success of these particular "tribes," he emphasizes historical patterns common to them all: a strong ethnic identity that allows the group to undergo economic and political changes without loss of essential unity; a global network based on mutual trust and communal self-help; and an open-minded approach to the adoption of scientific and technological innovations. On this basis, he argues that potentially powerful economic groups of the future may include Palestinians and Armenians.

Ethnic stereotyping is dangerous territory, and Kotkin jumps headlong into the controversial minefield. Highly recommended for all libraries. See also Lawrence Harrison's Who Prospers? How Cultural Values Shape Economic and Political Success.


You would note that the writer singles out five tribes, i.e. Jews, English (meaning UK, USA, Canada, Australia, New Zealand and perhaps even Ireland), Japanese, Chinese and Indians that have or will hugely influence world economy.

Controversial, and based on ethnic and racial divide, one could argue, but he expounds on reasons why some groups might succeed better than others based on some social values.

I have read similar essays earlier too, with minor changes, such as Phoenicians inserted before the Jews, and Japanese omitted from the Master list, but otherwise following the same theme.

People that find an unusual coherence between USA and Israel today, might think that the Jewish tribe is working along with the English tribe. But you seemed to have an opinion that the Jewish tribe was changing camp and joining with the Indian tribe. I think Mr. Bush would like the English tribe to join with the Indian tribe. Meanwhile the Chinese tribe is playing tug of war with the Japanese tribe, over the purse strings for the English tribe. All kinds of interesting things going on.

But read the book and pay attention to the writers prediction that smaller tribes, such as the Palestinians and Armenians, also seem to have the same basic principles, and therefore might also be economic forces of the future.

Looking at Palestine today, few will predict it. But that is how some folks have vision while others have only sight.

Cheers and good reading my friend. Try to separate your brain, from your ethnicity and religion and you might find a higher plane of existence than the smartest of them all. Trust me. Winks.
:)

[PatrickHenry]

These brain dead individuals that still believe in the concept of race (born a Jew) try to slander a sovereign thinking individual as "extremist white separatists and such", because they have seen through their illegitimate control mechanism (the sock puppet). Whoa, whoa, whoa! Hold on just a second! You quoted me without the quote marks and then start throwing insults and stuff? You need to watch your debate style, my friend, and also to distinguish your opponents from your potential friends.

The Jews certainly think they are a tribe regardless of your view of them...

Collectivism, which is the subjugation of individual rights and sovereignty for the benefit of the group, is a crime against humanity.
You should hook up with Clay Barham on this forum. He doesn't think that we should do anything as a group of people either. But I think there are legitimate purposes for collective action, eg. government...

The collectivist paradigm has certainly been overplayed, in my view, but I am glad I can get a restraining order against the punks and I don't have to go and pistol-whip them myself...

[JenifJ]

Tony :" In a nutshell, everything is forever changing, and that includes the Jewish [collective] control.

Not from my point of perspective, a sovereign on the land. The one world government collectivist mentality permeates through out the world (99%). The idea that "The Jew " is a minority, is the world's biggest lie, in order for the criminal to hide behind a facade, so they can carry on their criminal behavior. At the core of the collectivist mentality, by its nature, is a crime against humanity.

Collectivism (Judaism) at its core is a crime against humanity.[hr]PatrickHenry,

I didn't want to quote you because I didn't know if you said it out of ignorance or out of complicity. The phraseology is of the typical brain washed mind set.

[tony mitra]

HI JenifJ,

So we remain disagreed on this point. For me, everything must change with time without exception, and that includes Jews. I also hold the view that in a decade or two, you might forgive the Jews and begin to dislike the Chinese, or the Indians, or some other unknown entity that appears bigger over the horizon.

Here is another honest question: If the US Government is truly being controlled by the Jews, would that be the fault of the Jews, or that of the Government? The sworn officials are supposed to uphold the constitution of the United States. What does the constitution say about it?

Nonetheless, I shall give you a greenie and hope we could have a slightly less toxic, more dispassionate discussions on the issue. If I was a Jew I'd almost feel intimidated here. Surely that was not your purpose.

Cheers
:)

[AnnEsthesia]

Oh goodie... more posters to toss around insults with hardly any posts to their name. I remember a time when people actually tried to get to know each other before they started calling each other brainwashed and idiots...

[JenifJ]

The collectivist paradigm has certainly been overplayed, in my view, but I am glad I can get a restraining order against the punks and I don't have to go and pistol-whip them myself...


The collectivist paradigm is a parent/child relationship for those that haven't reached maturity, otherwise it becomes a master/slave relationship.

In the individualistic paradigm, for adults, one has to accept responsibility, if they want control of their actions.

Some people never achieve adulthood.

[DavoT]

Oh goodie... more posters to toss around insults with hardly any posts to their name. I remember a time when people actually tried to get to know each other before they started calling each other brainwashed and idiots...


I don't recall you coming to my rescue when 2 forumers called/implied that I'm a anti-semite?

Who shall we ban first?

[AnnEsthesia]

I don't have to defend you. You can defend yourself. But I do find it distasteful when people enter a forum and immediately start tossing out the insults. Deal.

As for banning, why would anyone be banned for calling you an anti-semite? That is hardly a bannable offense.

[DavoT]

Besides, obviously a very bright person, even if somewhat forthright on some controversial issues such as if Jews control too much of the west. Cheers

Has strong views, possibly regarding Jewish control of western media, but otherwise a bright person. Hope you keep comments civil so a dialog can progress. Cheers

Tony, these are your recent comments to our ebay style reputations....are you sure you don't want to retract these large paragraphs and replace it with something more direct, eg....."smart anti-semite"[hr]
I don't have to defend you. You can defend yourself. But I do find it distasteful when people enter a forum and immediately start tossing out the insults. Deal.


If you're not going to defend me, then why defend others you perceive to be under attack?.....do I have a "I'm an asshole" sticker on my back?

[AnnEsthesia]

Who said I was defending anyone in particular? Feeling guilty? Perhaps you should read what I wrote and not what you want me to have written so you can argue.

[tony mitra]

DavoT

LOL. I should change my comment from bright to very bright.
I thought Australians only played cricket !

Actually, my knowledge of Australia is a bit sketchy, in spite of having visited most of the southern coastal towns and also Tasmania a number of times. I do not even know if the jews are of any relevance there, though suspect the Chinese are looming larger. Did meet a few very old timers that served in the last war, and had some nasty things to say about the Imperial Japanese Army that treated the Australian prisoners of war badly on their treck through the jungles of Malaya.

Best thing I liked about Australia were the Kangaroos followed by Australian women. Having seen your posts, Australian males are climbing the charts too. :clapper:

My greenies to you two were my own honest assessment, believe me. I did not grow up in the west, and so semitism, or anti-semitism are both alien terms to me and does not come to mind naturally. To me nobody is black and white pro or anti anything, just various shakes of gray. :)

[JenifJ]

So we remain disagreed on this point.


Tony, I'm confused. You agreed that the concept of race is false, but then you continue to use "it is the Jew" mind set. A Jew is only one that believes, promotes and defends, the collectivist mind set. Which are you?


Here is another honest question: If the US Government is truly being controlled by the [collectivist mentality]Jews, would that be the fault of the [collectivist mentality]Jews, or that of the [justification for control] Government


I blame the collectivist mentality, a government is only a fiction in reality.


The sworn officials are supposed to uphold the constitution of the United States. What does the constitution say about it?


It says they are treasonous.


If I was a Jew


What is to say you are not?

[DavoT]

Who said I was defending anyone in particular? Feeling guilty? Perhaps you should read what I wrote and not what you want me to have written so you can argue.


Oh goodie... more posters to toss around insults with hardly any posts to their name. I remember a time when people actually tried to get to know each other before they started calling each other brainwashed and idiots...


I'm just exposing your bias Anne.....cause we can clearly identify that your comments were aimed at JenifJ.

You felt compelled to leap in out of the wilderness and berate JenifJ, but you've been dead silent regarding my treatment by those tossing the anti-semite slag.

[AnnEsthesia]

Excuse me, but um... I never said that I was not commenting about JenifJ. She is brand new and already calling people brainwashed and idiots. I find that poor behavior, no matter which side of the aisle you are on. (BTW, I am not particularly fond if the Israeli state, so you can take your claims of bias and shove them. :) Perhaps you should read through other threads and actually get to know the people you are discussing with so you do not look silly?)

As for the anti-semite crap, do you honestly care? Did they hurt your feelings?

Go ahead, lower the standards for communication here on the forum, but don't be surprised if no one really gives a damn when you get the crap you have spewed.

[DavoT]

DavoT
My greenies to you two were my own honest assessment, believe me. I did not grow up in the west, and so semitism, or anti-semitism are both alien terms to me and does not come to mind naturally.

The problem here Tony is that now anybody at this forum can view our reps and be given the impression we're anti-semites......now granted you claim to know little about the whole anti-semite thang, but trust "me", being labelled or implicated in anti-semitism is damaging for one's credibility.

Would you reconsider your comments in our rep boxes?

[JenifJ]

AnnEsthesia : She is brand new and already calling people brainwashed and idiots.

I didn't call him an idiot or brainwashed. I used his comment to demonstrate my point. Like you said, I haven't been here long enough to know if he is an idiot or brainwashed.

[DavoT]

Excuse me, but um... I never said that I was not commenting about JenifJ.

Who said I was defending anyone in particular

Your own words lead even the most feeble minded of forumers to the conclusion that you were sticking up for the targets of JenifJ's so called attack......so I'm curious why you didn't chime in on my behalf when others called or implied I was racist/anti-semite?

[tony mitra]

Hi JeifJ,

We disagree that the Jewish people (of the religion and not the race) will continue to have a hold onto things, on the grounds that everything must indeed change.

To me this whole issue of Jewish control of the media is a religious argument and not a racial one. To me Christians, Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, Jains, Zoroastrians are all religious people following different faiths, from whatever ethnicity. To me, basic three racial diversions are Caucasoid, Mongoloid and Negroid. To me, all humans living anywhere today came out of East Africa some 120,000 years ago and spread out and diversified to form all current races, ethnicities and what have you. So, as far as race is concerned, we are all Africans under the skin. I have no problem with that, and find it intriguing and pleasing, that I might be be equally kin to the Africans, as to the Eskimo.

And I remain in my belief that the Jews do not and will not control all Governments and all finances and all media, collective or otherwise.

About the Sworn officials of the US Government not upholding the constitution, what would you say the duty of the citizens would then be? Hate the Jews, or fix the Government?

I also believe you are a rather smart person.

Winks.
:)

[JenifJ]

You felt compelled to leap in out of the wilderness and berate JenifJ, but you've been dead silent regarding my treatment by those tossing the anti-semite slag.


When you can't refute someone with the truth, you must attack them. Christ is only a metaphor for "Kill the Messenger because you can't deal with the Message", holding true to her collectivist mentality.

[tony mitra]

DavoT,

Ohh I see. Okay, I shall change my comments on your greenie, if it allows me to change it, and remove the mention of the Jews, and just say that you are a bright Aussie.

What a mess !! Sorry about that.
:sadly:

[JenifJ]

Tony : "Jewish people"

There is no such thing as Jewish people, only people that believe in Judaism. Race is lie believed by a Jew, because they believe in Judaism. You are a Jew by your actions because you espouse Judaism (one is born a Jew).

[DavoT]

DavoT,

Ohh I see. Okay, I shall change my comments on your greenie, if it allows me to change it, and remove the mention of the Jews, and just say that you are a bright Aussie.

What a mess !! Sorry about that.
:sadly:


All good buddy, I've noticed you've modified our comments, and I believe it was a honest mistake on your part, so now I'm going to pay you back a greenie:thumbsup:

[AnnEsthesia]

It is called commenting on what I am seeing, Davo. Deal. LOL! And no, I was not "sticking up for" anyone. I was commenting on the nastiness I have seen in this thread lately. You do understand the idea of commenting without taking sides, right? As for why I did not comment when someone called you an anti-semite... erm.. why should I? Were you unable to explain your position and define your beliefs? I certainly do not know them, so how could I explain them for you? If you are not an anti-semite, then explain that. Most here are reasonable and intelligent (whether you wish to call them names or not) and will understand if you calmly state your case.

So why do you feel I need to defend your beliefs when I do not know them? Or is this just your needing to make this about me? (Deflection, anyone?)

[JenifJ]

About the Sworn officials of the US Government not upholding the constitution, what would you say the duty of the citizens would then be? Hate the Jews, or fix the Government?


A collectivist mentality is a mind set. Education is the only answer. The people that want to carry on their criminal behavior, hang them.

[DavoT]

It is called commenting on what I am seeing, Davo. Deal. LOL!


But it seems you were mistaken.....also, are you suggesting that you don't know what the typical definition of an anti-semite is?

Hey if you're cool then I'm cool, but this is how I roll:innocent::jammin:

[AnnEsthesia]

Where did I comment on anti-semitism? You are the one who brought it up.

[tony mitra]

Okay JenifJ, I stand corrected. I grew up to understand Jew to mean people that follow Judaism. Therefore when I mention a Jew or the Jewish people, I mean people that follow it as a faith and has nothing to do with ethnicity or race.

Geez, these religious definitions are hellishly complicated for one that does not believe much in religion in the first place and even less on race.

Thanks for pointing it out. I amended my comment on your greenie too, so as not to have you branded negatively here.

And by the way, people that carry on suspected criminal behavior, needs to be tried in an independent court. We do not hang people on suspicion, no matter what the ethnicity or the nature of crime. Trust we can at least agree on that.

Cheers and be cool
:)

[AnnEsthesia]

Wow, that was a pleasant comment.

[DavoT]

Where did I comment on anti-semitism? You are the one who brought it up.


I've already explained myself honey,......if you don't "get it", that's fine, but I'm happy with the way the thread's progressing.

[JenifJ]

Tony,

No matter what religion one professes to believe in, or what code of law is considered just, the most basic criteria for what can be considered right or wrong is, no one has the right or authority to violate another's individual rights and individual sovereignty. No one on earth is god, so no one has authority or right to control another. A violation of one's individual rights and individual sovereignty, is a crime against humanity. Only by agreement can one get someone to do what they want.

There is only one form of governance that is legitimate, which is based on the principles of sovereignty. The current political system is a fraud, patterned after the collectivist paradigm of "God said" now bastardized using "Government said". The founders of America, where the first ones to break through the collectivist paradigm, with the Declaration of Independence, and then established the Articles of Confederation for Sovereigns, but was soon bastardized using a corporate form of governance, the constitution a fiction in reality.

A constitution that creates a government, is a contract between the signers and the government that it creates, as to how government is to function. As a sovereign on the land that never signed the contract, the constitution is not applicable to me. As a Sovereign that is the master of my domain, only a Court of Sovereignty, is a valid venue for justice.

[PatrickHenry]

JenifJ, I disagree that Jews are only those faithful to the faith of Judaism.

There are many secular Jews who self-identify as such. It is an ethnicity, a culture as well as a religion. Sort of a tribe.

And many of the tribe are in the media business in America.

[JenifJ]

PatrickHenry,

Please read my post #91 page 10 where I addressed this issue that it is a collectivist mentality, not any identifiable person.

[crimzonsol]

DavoT, I have yet to see any serious person call you an anti-semite. To whom are you reffering to?

[DavoT]

DavoT, I have yet to see any serious person call you an anti-semite. To whom are you reffering to?


Post 72 and 74 for example.[hr]
JenifJ, I disagree that Jews are only those faithful to the faith of Judaism.

There are many secular Jews who self-identify as such. It is an ethnicity, a culture as well as a religion. Sort of a tribe.


Sounds complicated Pat.....let me simplify....a Jew is anyone who supports the evil triad of Judaism, Zionism, and Israel.

Btw, murder is evil.

[tony mitra]

So what did I learn so far in this thread ?

1) People born in India have little idea about semitism, anti-semitism and the difference between the religion or the ethnicity of the people that follow Judaism.
2) Describing Judaism, Jews and Jewish people can be hellishly complex and mix up race ethnicity and religion in a fashion so bewilderingly controversial, that it might be less stressful to contemplate the square root of infinity.
3) Australians can be opinionated and smart at the same time.
4) Jews outside of Israel can often be found to have an affinity to Buddhism.
5) The word Jew is a noun.
6) Zionism is like Judaism in a battle tank.
7) Some people have problem believing Crim is only 15 years old.
8) DavoT thinks control of the opinion-moulding media is nearly monolithic, and we are supposed to understand the meaning this kind of statement right away.
9) Israel and Syria are not officially at war, but are acting war like. However, they did declare war some 30 years ago, and apparently forgot to call an end to it.
10) Crim would like to read Douglas Reed
11) I learned of two new terms - ZOMM/ZOG, but its tough remembering what they mean.
12) JenifJ put forward genetic argument on the question of the Jewish people’s perceived race. I misunderstood it thinking I was being accused of not possessing any DNA at all !! I tried to prove I was not guilty of that particular crime.
13) I gave DavoT and JeifJ greenies with pointers on their strong opinion on Jews. The godowill backfired. So I replaced them with benign ones.
14) At the end of the day, it is uncertain that Jewish people, racial, religious or otherwise, actually control the mass media or not, based on evidence provided about Mr. Carter’s book, although Mr. Douglas Reeds experience 50 years ago would indicate the opposite.
15) After all this trouble, I earned a greenie from DavoT.

Cheers
:)

[crimzonsol]

DavoT, I guess you missed the part were I said serious posters.


a Jew is anyone who supports the evil triad of Judaism, Zionism, and Israel.


Glad to know your opinion of me.[hr]Wellcome to America Tony. If you want to define a Jew, you'll have to study for the rest of your life to just get prepared to learn about it.

[DavoT]

DavoT, I guess you missed the part were I said serious posters.


No, I just rejected it as not meshing with the basic facts.......

Preservanation

Posts: 2,637Group: Registered
Affiliation: Conservative
Joined: May 2007
Status: Online
Reputation: 13

[crimzonsol]

You obviously don't know about his sarcasm and wit when he says something that does not add to the thread. Trust me, I have seen when he is being serious, he wasn't being very serious.

[DavoT]

You obviously don't know about his sarcasm and wit when he says something that does not add to the thread. Trust me, I have seen when he is being serious, he wasn't being very serious.


Oh, okay, well in future could you let me know, and we'll get the boss to move his comments to FP, just like he's already done with one of JenifJ's.:thumbsup:

[crimzonsol]

Why was JenifJs posts sent to FP?

[DavoT]

14) At the end of the day, it is uncertain that Jewish people, racial, religious or otherwise, actually control the mass media or not, :)


Hilarious post Tony......however, there can be no denying that Jews dominate American mass media....and I've already supplied the URL/s.[hr]
Why was JenifJs posts sent to FP?


It was deemed off topic.

[crimzonsol]

Do you have the url, I will raise hell if its not worse than preservanations.

And you think Jews are evil.

[preservanation]

Do you have the url, I will raise hell if its not worse than preservanations.

And you think Jews are evil.
What could be worse than preservanation's?
A Jewish preservanation's url.

[crimzonsol]

JenifJs post that was moved to FP, you have to admit we was more on topic than you were.

[DavoT]

Do you have the url, I will raise hell if its not worse than preservanations.

And you think Jews are evil.



Sorry if my links bored you, but here it is again Crim15 (http://www.natall.com/who-rules-america/)

[crimzonsol]

Sorry, but the national alliance is not something I am going to trust. They are correct in that Jews own media. they are not correct in saying that Jews are manipulating our minds.

[preservanation]

JenifJs post that was moved to FP, you have to admit we was more on topic than you were.
Jinkies!!

[DavoT]

Sorry, but the national alliance is not something I am going to trust. They are correct in that Jews own media. they are not correct in saying that Jews are manipulating our minds.


So you favour Bush over Blix?

[crimzonsol]

I hate all politicions.
I am an anarchist at heart.

[PatrickHenry]

National Vanguard?

Their information on Jewish media control may be accurate if somewhat out of date.

But see...On that page you referenced, DavoT, is this little paragraph:
The Jew-controlled entertainment media have taken the lead in persuading a whole generation that homosexuality is a normal and acceptable way of life; that there is nothing at all wrong with White women dating or marrying Black men, or with White men marrying Asian women; that all races are inherently equal in ability and character—except that the character of the White race is suspect because of a history of oppressing other races; and that any effort by Whites at racial self-preservation is reprehensible.

And I have problems with this type of viewpoint. In my experience, mixed race marriages are just fine. Why does an organization like The National Alliance need to be so vehement?

[crimzonsol]

Because the National Alliance is a frequent source of Skinheads and other White supremist groups.

[DavoT]

Because the National Alliance is a frequent source of Skinheads and other White supremist groups.


DavoT.....we can discuss almost any other subject without having slurs like racist/anti-semite, skinhead hurled at us

:rolleyes::rolleyes:

[tony mitra]

Well, DavoT

I did look at the link and knew most of it already. I had lived in the USA for some years and at first used to think that the media was indeed controlled by a pro Israeli lobby. But I changed my mind eventually, when I realized that the media as such is basically stupid and does not serve up any worthwhile news, Israel or otherwise. I also realized that the state of the media is like that not because of faults of what the editors did, but because that is what the public likes to watch.

In short, the media is what the American people have selected it to be. The very fact that the link provided by you exists, or that people like Seymour Hersh or Noam Chomsky are able to stay alive and criticize both the US Government and its Israeli blindness, is proof enough that the Jewish people do not any more have a strangle hold on American media.

Having lived outside of the US, I also know for a fact that the media you mentioned, does not control the rest of the world.

Having said that, I was the one that brought up the issue of Douglas Reed, and observed that things were pretty worse in the 1950s and subsequent decades.

About Israel of today, my feelings are more like this: Military superiority, or a threat of overwhelming retaliation, is not enough deterrence if the adversary has been pushed to the point where he is willing to die for a cause. Once the opponent overcomes fear of death, you have lost every single strategic advantage that you can build as a deterrence. The playing field becomes level, no matter how overwhelming your military advantage might be.

And since neither Israel nor USA can annihilate the entire middle east without shooting itself in the stomach, the war, as they call it, is already being lost on a daily basis. The end might come early or late, but the outcome is already decided.

So, regarding the Israeli Knesset and the US Government, surely comprising of smart people, as is the venerable US media, I do not know why they cannot see what the rest of the world has seen some time ago, and why they do not change course to protect their own respective long term interest.

This, however, does not prove that Jews control US media. It iproves that the US Government and the Israeli Government are digging holes in the ground and the American public are busy watching Britney Spears on the same venerable mass media.
:ponder:

[DavoT]

But see...On that page you referenced, DavoT, is this little paragraph:

And I have problems with this type of viewpoint. In my experience, mixed race marriages are just fine. Why does an organization like The National Alliance need to be so vehement?


Patrick.

I have my own views on a range of issues, however, the purpose of linking the NA article was for it's factual content relating to this topic.

In simple terms, I don't care who fucks who, or how often{adults}.

The point the NA is trying to make is that we're told that all the races/ethnicities are equal, therefore, one shouldn't object to interracial marriage....but if every other race/ethnicity is worth preserving and promoting, where does that leave the white race.[hr]
This, however, does not prove that Jews control US media.

It takes two to tango Tony, but do you tell your boss what to do, or does he tell you?

[crimzonsol]

DavoT, I was not implying you were a Skinhead, I have lived my life with Skinheads. Know your enemy. I learned alot about skinheads, including there sources for some of their more elagent speeches. I am apologize if I offended you.


It takes two to tango Tony, but do you tell your boss what to do, or does he tell you?

You are implying that the "boss" is actualy telling you to do something. Jews own the media. Nobody disputes that, but I do not think that they are exploiting it for some New World Order.

[DavoT]

You are implying that the "boss" is actualy telling you to do something. Jews own the media. Nobody disputes that, but I do not think that they are exploiting it for some New World Order.


But if neither Israel or the US were under any threat from Iraq{no WMD}, what humanitarian purpose is served by entering into a protracted and un-winnable war against Iraq, and why did Bush ignore the weapons inspectors assessment unless he was under Zionist orders?

An immoral war equates to an organized mass murder spree.

[JenifJ]

but I do not think that they are exploiting it for some New World Order.


Then you don't understand the basic tenets of Judaism. The Torah is nothing more than an operations manual creating a collectivist paradigm for a One World Government of collective slavery, dominated by "God's chosen". A political system of race supremacy for world domination. What I find hilarious is long before there was ever a man called Hitler, Moses devised a political system of race supremacy for world domination. Truly a shit-stain on humanity. Ever wonder why Nazism, Judaism's bastard child gets all the bad press?http://www.individual-sovereignty.com/pic/dunno.gif It is to create a diversion to hide the real criminals.


If one hates Nazism, it only stands to reason one should hate Judaism; and visa versa. Don't loose sight of who originated this vomit and that it should be relegated to the heap pile of human garbage.

[tony mitra]

Ahh JenifJ,

I suspect you are giving too much credence to whatever doctrine the Tora might espouse. As soon as it runs up against a laughing Buddha from China and a dancing Krishna from India, the Tora philosophy might morph, and who knows, might even turn into Quakers.

Cheers
:)

[crimzonsol]

But if neither Israel or the US were under any threat from Iraq{no WMD}, what humanitarian purpose is served by entering into a protracted and un-winnable war against Iraq, and why did Bush ignore the weapons inspectors assessment unless he was under Zionist orders?

Because the Cold War never ended. Teh Soviet Union was not what we were fighting, we were fighting Communism & Socialism. As long as they exsist and we have stupid american people we will continue fighting them. The War against Drugs was fighting the pro-communist fighters in colombia that used drugs to finance their war. The War against Terror is against nations like Syria(Communist) & Iran(Socialist). All that has changed is that we have to fight differently. The Iraq War could have been a spectacular victory for the US if they had actually won, but they thought they should fight fire with fire instead of using water to fight fire.

Iraq was invaded because it was an easy target. It should have been an easy war to win. All we had to do was do the same thing we did in Operation Enduring Freedom-Philipines were we actually won. We used both the stick and the carrot so to speak. We sent troops to train the local army and engage in commando operations against the enemy. At the same time we also started a massive humanitarian effort to help the population. Among the results of this operation was the creation of 14 schools, seven clinics, three hospitals and over 20 fresh water wells. From the beginning of the project it had provided care and assistance to an estimated 18,000 Filipinos.
The Casualties of this effort.
On February 22, 2002, ten U.S. soldiers died when their MH-47 crashed at sea in the southern Philippines.
On October 2, 2002, one U.S. soldier was killed in an explosion at an open-air market outside the gate of Camp Enrile Malagutay, in Zamboanga.
On June 30, 2004, a U.S. soldier committed suicide in a hotel in Manila.
On October 14, 2005, a U.S. soldier was killed in an accident in Makati City.
On February 15, 2007, a U.S. Marine was killed in an accident in Jolo.
On July 7, 2007, a U.S. soldier was killed in an accident in Mali.
We have only one casualty from actual fighting.

When I heard they were going to war in Iraq, I thought they would do the same sort of thing that they did in the Philippines. I thought they would have had a plan because of the push they were making for the war. If the "Zionists" sent us into this war they can't be that smart. So if they are not that smart, then how did they gain control of the government? On the other hand if they are smart then they can't control the government because this war has totaly fucked things up for Israel.

I believe that the "Zionists" went along with the government because they believed that the government had a plan the same as me. So they did not tell the government what to do, they went along with the government because having a friendly government in between Israel and Iran would let Israel actually have a chance at peace with the Palestinains.

[tony mitra]

Crim,

I’d guess you are still young and put too much trust on some one else’s logic.


Remember, every argument usually also has a counter argument. So whoever said US action on Philippines was a smart one, is likely as wrong as he was right. Why? Because in spite of whatever military success it had, and in spite of USA’s perceived promotion of democracy, Philippines only allowed Americans to maintain its Clarks air force base and the Subic Bay naval base as long as Philippines was a dictatorship. As soon as it turned democratic, it asked the Americans to pack up and leave.

I would therefore opine that the last successful war that America actually engaged in, was WWII. That was also the last time America entered the war because it was attacked first by someone else.

I would have as much historical evidence as the next guy, to therefore draw a conclusion that each and every time USA, or Israel, engages in preemption, they might win a battle, but would lose the war.


Apart from all that, I have also an analytically deduced position that in theory, war as a political tool is dead in the ground. This does not come from subconscious dislike for war, but also from modifying my bias on past history and factoring in analysis on future trends.

The battle ultimately is always about the hearts and minds of the people. And with due respect to the prowess of American mass media, the battle has long been lost. Flow of opinion in this global village is too free for anyone to effectively “control” it.

Think about it like this - if you meet a man that has been correct in his predictions for most of the past 40 years, he is increasingly more likely to be incorrect for the next 40 years.

I wholly agree with you that the war on Iraq has totally f*cked things up for Israel. It has also totally f*cked things up for America. In spite of that, America did engage in the war, and Israel did its bit to influence America from behind on this.

An aggressive preemption on Iran is going to f*ck things up even worse than the Iraq war. Up to now only half the Muslims were mad at you. Now you will have united all the Muslims, as well as all neutrals, to get mad at you. Thats approximately four billion plus people or two thirds of mankind. And this does not even count the millions within the west that are also getting increasingly mad at you. By you, I do not mean Crim, of course, but those that propose this military adventures.

Think about that. And yet, both America and Israel gives the appearance of pressing their foot to the accelerator speeding down to a cliff.

Did you know Iran sent several feelers to USA through third party Governments to sit and talk to reduce the tension and that the US rejected them all?


Did you know Saddam sent feelers ahead of the invasion to find an agreement so he would leave Iraq and go into permanent exile with one billion dollars and that the US rejected it?

Did you hear that Japan had been sending desperate feelers through third parties ahead of the Hiroshima bombing, trying to sue for peace and accept military defeat against the Americans and that the Americans rejected these offers?

Did you read up on why on earth is Mr. Bush is so hell bent on offering nuclear help to India while India insists it will never sign the NPT, never dismantle its nuclear weapons, never submit its military reactors and enrichment program to outside investigation, will not even agree to never conduct any more nuclear test and wows it would continue to make more bombs and more missiles?

Did you know that IAEA and the UN had legally signed papers allowing Iran to develop not only nuclear power, but also enrich its Uranium, a long time ago when the Shah was a ruler, and that it stopped those programs after the Shah was deposed and that Iran is now only wanting what people had signed an agreement on?

You did not? Well, do your research and demand for access to information and then think things through.


And question everything and everybody and take no opinion or write up or religious or national propaganda as gospel. That includes my post here.


Cheers, young man.
:)

[crimzonsol]

I’d guess you are still young and put too much trust on some one else’s logic

Logic? Who needs logic? I'm a teenager I know everything


Remember, every argument usually also has a counter argument.

Yes, but when you are dabating with me its all ways wrong.


So whoever said US action on Philippines was a smart one, is likely as wrong as he was right. Why? Because in spite of whatever military success it had, and in spite of USA’s perceived promotion of democracy, Philippines only allowed Americans to maintain its Clarks air force base and the Subic Bay naval base as long as Philippines was a dictatorship. As soon as it turned democratic, it asked the Americans to pack up and leave.

The difference being that this was not a military battle, it was mostly a humanitarian effort. The US troops mostly trained the Philippines troops. This was not an Iraq war this actually improved the standard of living for people in the Philippines.


I would therefore opine that the last successful war that America actually engaged in, was the WWII. That was also the last time America entered the war because it was attacked first by someone else.

It depends on what the objective was. To win you do not nessecarily have to defeat your opponent. You have to accomplish certain goals, for example: Israel wars against Hezbollah was a victory because