Biblical interpretation and translation

[WarriorTheKnown]

What does this verse mean to you, Isaiah 7:14

לָכֵן יִתֵּן ×�ֲדֹ×*ָי הוּ×�, לָכֶ×�--×�וֹת: ×”Ö´×*Ö¼Öµ×” הָעַלְמָה, הָרָה וְיֹלֶדֶת בֵּן, וְקָרָ×�ת ש×�ְמוֹ, עִמָּ×*וּ ×�ֵל

Is it prophetic? If so, of what? When stating your beliefs, please mention the translation you use (if any).

[Questerr]

What does this verse mean to you, Isaiah 7:14

לָכֵן יִתֵּן ×�ֲדֹ×*ָי הוּ×�, לָכֶ×�--×�וֹת: ×”Ö´×*Ö¼Öµ×” הָעַלְמָה, הָרָה וְיֹלֶדֶת בֵּן, וְקָרָ×�ת ש×�ְמוֹ, עִמָּ×*וּ ×�ֵל

Is it prophetic? If so, of what? When stating your beliefs, please mention the translation you use (if any).


I don't read Hebrew and don't ahve a Bible on hand, can I get a translation?

And can I also get all the stuff that immediately preceded and followed it so I can see it in context?

[WarriorTheKnown]

I don't read Hebrew and don't ahve a Bible on hand, can I get a translation?

And can I also get all the stuff that immediately preceded and followed it so I can see it in context?


Part of the point I'm hoping to make is the difference in translation and interpretation. So I'm hoping that the people that respond post their translation, interpretation, and reasoning for their belief.

[Questerr]

I don't read Hebrew and don't ahve a Bible on hand, can I get a translation?

And can I also get all the stuff that immediately preceded and followed it so I can see it in context?


Part of the point I'm hoping to make is the difference in translation and interpretation. So I'm hoping that the people that respond post their translation, interpretation, and reasoning for their belief.


Well, I'm with you on that. I think that translation problems have alot to do with some of the dogmatic and theological problems in Christianity today (the only example I can think of is the interpretation of Lucifer as referencing the devil, in context and linguistically it does not).

That's also why I asked about seeing the preceeding and following lines: any line in the Bible in potentially prophetic if its taken out of context.

[JohnM81]

What does this verse mean to you, Isaiah 7:14

לָכֵן יִתֵּן ×�ֲדֹ×*ָי הוּ×�, לָכֶ×�--×�וֹת: ×”Ö´×*Ö¼Öµ×” הָעַלְמָה, הָרָה וְיֹלֶדֶת בֵּן, וְקָרָ×�ת ש×�ְמוֹ, עִמָּ×*וּ ×�ֵל

Is it prophetic? If so, of what? When stating your beliefs, please mention the translation you use (if any).


Its a prophetic message from the past of the messiah who came.

KJV:
Isa 7:13 And he said, Hear ye now, O house of David; [Is it] a small thing for you to weary men, but will ye weary my God also?
Isa 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.
Isa 7:15 Butter and honey shall he eat, that he may know to refuse the evil, and choose the good.


Transliteration from the Biblia Hebraica:
Isa 7:14 'Adonay nathan 'owth `almah hareh yalad ben qara' shem 'el `Immanuw'el

[WarriorTheKnown]

Thank you for your response.

Its a prophetic message from the past of the messiah who came.
In your opinion a woman giving birth is prophetic? Why?

Isa 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.

the word for young woman or maiden is almah, in this verse the word HaAlmah is used, the Ha meaning "the". Lets see how the same word is translated in other parts of the same bible you use.

And Pharaoh's daughter said to her, Go. And the maid went and called the child's mother.

To my knowledge Almah appears a few times throughout the bible. This is the one that comes to my mind without looking up the others.

The correct word for virgin is Betulah, which is used in Isaiah 37.22. So my question is this... if the author of Isaiah wanted to say virgin, why would he use a word that is known for meaning young woman? And remember, he uses the word for virgin in his own writings as well.

My final initial point I'll make is this. Reading the whole chapter from the beginning in your translation of the bible...

Then said the LORD unto Isaiah, Go forth now to meet Ahaz, thou, and Shearjashub thy son, at the end of the conduit of the upper pool in the highway of the fuller's field; And say unto him, Take heed, and be quiet; fear not, neither be fainthearted for the two tails of these smoking firebrands, for the fierce anger of Rezin with Syria, and of the son of Remaliah ...
Moreover the LORD spake again unto Ahaz, saying, Ask thee a sign of the LORD thy God; ask it either in the depth, or in the height above. But Ahaz said, I will not ask, neither will I tempt the LORD. And he said, Hear ye now, O house of David; Is it a small thing for you to weary men, but will ye weary my God also? Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.

I'll be honest, after reading the translation you presented I think the best way to view this chapter is that G-d is sending a message to King Ahaz. Be honest, after you read the sections I put in bold, do you really think the prophetic meaning was meant for someone 700 years later?

Now I don't think you'll suddenly have a epiphany and suddenly change your belief's, but you must admit there is an alternate interpretation of this chapter that differs from the christian one.

[WarriorTheKnown]

No one has anything to say?

[Tsky]

Can an "almah" (which my bible translates as 'maiden' at Isaiah 7:14) be a virgin? Or are you saying this almah only refers to a woman who is not a virgin? I'm confused. If an almah can also be a virgin then what's your point? If a maiden/almah can't also be a virgin then prove it using scripture.

And by the way, I'm still waiting for you to post the scripture (not a long rabbinic dissertation) where Isaiah 7:14 was fulfilled if it wasn't fulfilled with the birth of the Christ.

[WarriorTheKnown]

Can an "almah" (which my bible translates as 'maiden' at Isaiah 7:14) be a virgin? Or are you saying this almah only refers to a woman who is not a virgin? I'm confused. If an almah can also be a virgin then what's your point? If a maiden/almah can't also be a virgin then prove it using scripture.

An almah can be a virgin, but it doesn't have to be. My point is this, if the author of Isaiah wanted to say it was a virgin birth, why would he use a word that doesn't mean virgin? Keep in mind the author of Isaiah does use the word for virgin in his own writings.

I'm not the one claiming it has anything to do with the Messiah. So why is the burdon on me to prove something?

[JohnM81]

Thank you for your response.

Its a prophetic message from the past of the messiah who came.
In your opinion a woman giving birth is prophetic? Why?

Isa 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.

the word for young woman or maiden is almah, in this verse the word HaAlmah is used, the Ha meaning "the". Lets see how the same word is translated in other parts of the same bible you use.

And Pharaoh's daughter said to her, Go. And the maid went and called the child's mother.

To my knowledge Almah appears a few times throughout the bible. This is the one that comes to my mind without looking up the others.

The correct word for virgin is Betulah, which is used in Isaiah 37.22. So my question is this... if the author of Isaiah wanted to say virgin, why would he use a word that is known for meaning young woman? And remember, he uses the word for virgin in his own writings as well.

My final initial point I'll make is this. Reading the whole chapter from the beginning in your translation of the bible...

Then said the LORD unto Isaiah, Go forth now to meet Ahaz, thou, and Shearjashub thy son, at the end of the conduit of the upper pool in the highway of the fuller's field; And say unto him, Take heed, and be quiet; fear not, neither be fainthearted for the two tails of these smoking firebrands, for the fierce anger of Rezin with Syria, and of the son of Remaliah ...
Moreover the LORD spake again unto Ahaz, saying, Ask thee a sign of the LORD thy God; ask it either in the depth, or in the height above. But Ahaz said, I will not ask, neither will I tempt the LORD. And he said, Hear ye now, O house of David; Is it a small thing for you to weary men, but will ye weary my God also? Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.

I'll be honest, after reading the translation you presented I think the best way to view this chapter is that G-d is sending a message to King Ahaz. Be honest, after you read the sections I put in bold, do you really think the prophetic meaning was meant for someone 700 years later?

Now I don't think you'll suddenly have a epiphany and suddenly change your belief's, but you must admit there is an alternate interpretation of this chapter that differs from the christian one.




Sorry for such the delay in responding.

"In your opinion a woman giving birth is prophetic? Why?"

Due to it being an event that has yet to take place.


"the word for young woman or maiden is almah, in this verse the word HaAlmah is used,"

Actually, the transliteration that I posted shows almah being used. So before we can talk about everything else you posted we need to get our details straight.