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lily
09-20-2007, 01:51 AM
GOP Moderates Weigh Loyalty To Bush vs. Political Realities

By Jonathan Weisman and Shailagh Murray
Washington Post Staff Writers
Wednesday, September 19, 2007; Page A03

With a difficult war debate looming and presidential vetoes for a host of
popular legislation threatened, moderate Republicans in Congress are facing
a tough choice: Stand by President Bush or run for their political lives.

Votes are due soon on Iraq, an expansion of a children's health insurance
program and an array of spending bills. GOP leaders hope to use them to
regain credibility with their base voters as a party for strong defense and
fiscal discipline. But moderates, many of them facing the possibility of
difficult reelection bids next year, are dreading the expected showdowns.



"We are at a very significant juncture," said Rep. Jim Ramstad (Minn.), a
moderate who on Monday joined seven other Republicans in announcing that he
will not seek reelection. "I'd use a metaphor, but it can't be printed --
something about something hitting the fan."

"Obviously, it's perilous," said Charles Bass (N.H.), who was swept from
Congress last year in the Democratic wave and now heads the Republican Main
Street Partnership, a moderate group.

This week and next, Senate Republicans will face crucial votes on measures
to shift course in Iraq, probably beginning with a proposal by Sen. James
Webb (D-Va.) that would require home stays for troops that are at least as
long as their most recent combat tours before they can be redeployed to the
war zones.

House and Senate negotiators are closing in on a major expansion of the
State Children's Health Insurance Program that would largely mirror a $35
billion Senate version and be stripped of the House's controversial plan to
trim back subsidies for private Medicare managed-care plans. The bill
already has veto-proof support in the Senate, and opposition may be
crumbling in the House.

"Most of the moderates will vote for S-CHIP if the Medicare piece is taken
out," said Rep. Deborah Pryce (R-Ohio).

Over White House opposition, the House voted 348 to 72 yesterday to expand
federal backing of mortgages, the first legislative response to the brewing
housing crisis.

And the president has promised to veto nearly every one of the 12
appropriations bills in the works over $22 billion that Democrats are adding
to Bush's request of nearly $1 trillion. While Republicans emphasize the
total of increased spending, Democrats are hammering the GOP on the
specifics: $3 billion for border security, $1.2 billion for emergency
preparedness, $1 billion for bridge repair, $700 million to house low-income
seniors and $75 million for homeless veterans.

To be sure, Bush could find Republican support holding up if Democratic
leaders are unable or unwilling to moderate their positions on Iraq or come
to timely agreements on S-CHIP and the spending bills. Rep. Phil English
(R-Pa.), who has been exploring bipartisan accommodations, especially on
Iraq, complained yesterday that, for all their talk of bipartisanship, the
"House Democratic leadership has not reached out to us at all."

And Senate Majority Leader Harry M. Reid (D-Nev.) said yesterday that he is
abandoning efforts at compromise with Republicans over proposals to bring
troops home, saying that the GOP has not responded to his plea.

For many Republicans, especially conservatives, the coming showdowns are the
fights they have been waiting for. But even they are reluctant to say they
are standing with the president, who has low approval ratings, especially
over his handling of the Iraq war.

dgun
09-20-2007, 02:07 AM
I’ve got a novel idea. How about just basing political/policy positions on what you consider to be the right thing to do?

Would our patchwork system of lobbyists, PACS, and special interest bribery collapse beneath us, sending our country into chaos and civil war? I dunno.

lily
09-20-2007, 05:25 AM
I love a dreamer!:love:

tony mitra
09-20-2007, 07:54 AM
From what I hear, Lily, the Democrats are just as bad. They are more concerned on how to get a Democrat elected as the President, than bringing an early end to the war and stop the killing.

They got to the senate and the house on a promise to the people to end the war, but having come there, they'd rather just make some whining complaints about Mr. Bush's war, but let the war continue, and hope to capitalize on it next year in order to have a Democrat win the Presidential election.

If they, on the other hand, did try hard and stop the war this year, then they have to invent yet another "great cause" to use to win the election next year. That is an uncertain prospect.

The Iraq war, on the other hand, is a handy broom to bash the Republicans with. So, they'd be just as pleased to see the war continue, badly that too, while they keep paying some lip service objecting to the war. Its part of their game plan for next year's election.

This war has become a political tool for both parties and has nothing at all to do with world security.

Politicians, almost all over the world, are pretty much same.

In my own view, there are only three persons that think differently. These are Ron Paul, Dennis Kucinich and Mike Gravel. The rest, are just politicians.

Anyhow, that is how I see it. Don't take it personal. This is not a personal issue, at all.

Cheers.

lily
09-21-2007, 12:34 AM
From what I hear, Lily, the Democrats are just as bad. They are more concerned on how to get a Democrat elected as the President, than bringing an early end to the war and stop the killing.

Oh, don't get me wrong Tony. I know both parties are a bunch of crooks. I am also not thrilled with the Democrats not doing enough to stop this war........but.......and with me there usually is one. When the Republicans fillibuster, one thing they yelled loud and clear when the Democrats so much as even whispered the word like they did today so that the bill Webb was trying to pass, that would demand equal time at home with equal time spent in iraq then they are the ones to get my wrath for the day.


The Iraq war, on the other hand, is a handy broom to bash the Republicans with. So, they'd be just as pleased to see the war continue, badly that too, while they keep paying some lip service objecting to the war. Its part of their game plan for next year's election.

Well, I see it differently........I see Bush as having screwed it up so bad that he has no other choice but to sacrifice the Republican party for this election that screwing it up even more isn't going to make that much of a difference as so far it's pretty clear that the Reublicans aren't as strong as the Democrats are so far.

Bush got his and to hell with the rest of the country.

This war has become a political tool for both parties and has nothing at all to do with world security.

You're not going to get much of an arguement out of me on that one.



In my own view, there are only three persons that think differently. These are Ron Paul, Dennis Kucinich and Mike Gravel. The rest, are just politicians.

Sadly, they don't have the backing of the king makers.

Anyhow, that is how I see it. Don't take it personal. This is not a personal issue, at all.

Hey I don't take too much here personal.......we're all just here to have a good time and if we learn something on the way, it's a plus.

TheStripey1
09-21-2007, 12:57 AM
From what I hear, Lily, the Democrats are just as bad. They are more concerned on how to get a Democrat elected as the President, than bringing an early end to the war and stop the killing.

They got to the senate and the house on a promise to the people to end the war, but having come there, they'd rather just make some whining complaints about Mr. Bush's war, but let the war continue, and hope to capitalize on it next year in order to have a Democrat win the Presidential election.

Cheers.


yo tony... dude... the democrats don't have the VOTES to pass anything without republican help... they need 60 votes to end debate on a bill and pass it onto the senate floor for a vote... they only have 51 on a good day... so how can you possibly expect them to get anything done by themselves? It's just not possible...

the ONLY way we will be able to end our involvement in Iraq's civil war is with a democratic victory in November '08... please, if an end to the war is what you are striving for, please do not keep saying the dems could do something about it IF they wanted to...

it's just not true...

heyjude
09-21-2007, 01:12 AM
The Stripey1 is right. It is a major miracle of spinmeisters to turn the inability of the Democrats to get the votes to pass an end to the war against them. It is now the fault of the Democrats that the war must go on becuase the Republicans can't help themselves.

And Lily is correct about Bush and his concern for the Republican party. But he had already shown with the Rumsfield resignation that he will allow the party to crash and burn when he could help. Ginrich is warning the canidates every day to distance themselves. So far I haven't noticed them doing it.

ViolaLee
09-21-2007, 07:08 AM
Republicans are running on campaigns of fear. Here's their new motto.

There is nothing we can have, but fear itself.

Drocket
09-21-2007, 07:23 AM
they need 60 votes to end debate on a bill and pass it onto the senate floor for a vote... they only have 51 on a good day... so how can you possibly expect them to get anything done by themselves?

Sorta true, but not entirely. I'm highly disappointed by the Democrats. Yes, it's true they need 60 votes to pass a bill (and a side note just because it's my current pet peeve because of the media's complete inability to understand this: they need 60 votes because the Republicans are FILIBUSTERING), but there's so much they COULD be doing that they're currently not. The big one is: MAKE the Republicans filibuster for real. No more of this pussy 'call for the closure vote and when it fails, shrug and go home.' Hand Hatch a phone book and say, "Knock yourself out, asshole." The Republicans want to filibuster? Make them. Constantly. I want to see the Republicans on TV 24/7 defending their blocking of the Webb amendment, of why we don't need Habeas Corpus, of the other bills they're blocking. If they think these are bad bills for the country, lets give them lots and lots of opportunity to explain it to the public.

There's also the simple fact that for many of these things, the Democrats don't actually need to to anything. The Iraq funding a perfect example. They don't need 60 votes to end the was in Iraq: all they need to do is stop funding it. It's the Republicans who need 60 votes to keep the war going, because if the funding bill doesn't pass - that's it for the war.

Now, cutting funding off entirely isn't actually a wise plan. It does, however, show that the Democrats have the upper hand. All they need to do is stick to their guns when it comes to putting provisions into the bill. The Republicans don't like it? Fine, but that's the only funding bill you're going to get. Guess the war is over. Bush wants to veto it? Fine, but that's the only funding bill he's going to get either. Guess the war is over.

The Democrats have TONS of leverage, but they're not using it.