BLACKWATER KICKED OUT OF IRAQ

[DANG]

:thumbsup:
Its gonna be a good day!
LINK (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070917/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq)

Blackwater license being revoked in Iraq

By BASSEM MROUE, Associated Press Writer
40 minutes ago



BAGHDAD - The Iraqi government said Monday that it was revoking the license of an American security firm accused of involvement in the deaths of eight civilians in a firefight that followed a car bomb explosion near a State Department motorcade.


The Interior Ministry said it would prosecute any foreign contractors found to have used excessive force in the Sunday shooting. It was latest accusation against the U.S.-contracted firms that operate with little or no supervision and are widely disliked by Iraqis who resent their speeding motorcades and forceful behavior.

Interior Ministry spokesman Abdul-Karim Khalaf said eight civilians were killed and 13 were wounded when contractors believed to be working for Blackwater USA opened fire in a predominantly Sunni neighborhood of western Baghdad.

"We have canceled the license of Blackwater and prevented them from working all over Iraqi territory. We will also refer those involved to Iraqi judicial authorities," Khalaf said.

The spokesman said witness reports pointed to Blackwater involvement but said the shooting was still under investigation. It was not immediately clear if the measure against Blackwater was intended to be temporary or permanent.

Blackwater, based in Moyock, N.C., provides security for many U.S. civilian operations in the country.

Phone messages left early Monday at the company's office in North Carolina and with a spokeswoman were not immediately returned.

The U.S. Embassy said a State Department motorcade came under small-arms fire that disabled one of the vehicles, which had to be towed from the scene near Nisoor Square in the Mansour district.

"There was a convoy of State Department personnel and a car bomb went off in proximity to them and there was an exchange of fire as the personnel were returning to the International Zone," embassy spokesman Johann Schmonsees said, referring to the heavily fortified U.S.-protected area in central Baghdad also known as the Green Zone.

Officials provided no information about Iraqi casualties but said no State Department personnel were wounded or killed.

The embassy also refused to answer any questions on Blackwater's status or legal issues, saying it was seeking clarification on the issue as part of the investigation, which was being carried out by the State Department's diplomatic security service and law enforcement officials working with the Iraqi government and the U.S. military.

Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki late Sunday condemned the shooting by a "foreign security company" and called it a "crime."

The decision to pull the license was likely to face a challenge, as it would be a major blow to a company that was at the forefront of one of the main turning points in the war.

The 2004 battle of Fallujah — an unsuccessful military assault in which an estimated 27 U.S. Marines were killed, along with an unknown number of civilians — was retaliation for the killing, maiming and burning of four Blackwater guards in that city by a mob of insurgents.

Tens of thousands of foreign private security contractors work in Iraq — some with automatic weapons, body armor, helicopters and bulletproof vehicles — to provide protection for Westerners and dignitaries in Iraq as the country has plummeted toward anarchy and civil war.

Monday's action against Blackwater was likely to give the unpopular government a boost, given Iraqis' dislike of the contractors.

Many of the contractors have been accused of indiscriminately firing at American and Iraqi troops, and of shooting to death an unknown number of Iraqi citizens who got too close to their heavily armed convoys, but none has faced charges or prosecution.

"There have been so many innocent people they've killed over there, and they just keep doing it," said Katy Helvenston, the mother of late Blackwater contractor Steve Helvenston, who died in 2004 during the ambush in Fallujah. "They have just a callous disregard for life."

Helvenston is now part of a lawsuit that accuses Blackwater of cutting corners that ultimately led to the death of her son and three others.

The question of whether they could face prosecution is legally murky. Unlike soldiers, the contrators are not bound by the Uniform Code of Military Justice. Under a special provision secured by American-occupying forces, they are exempt from prosecution by Iraqis for crimes committed there.

Khalaf, however, denied that the exemption applied to private security companies.

Iraqi police said the contractors were in a convoy of six sport utility vehicles and left after the shooting.

"We saw a convoy of SUVs passing in the street nearby. One minute later, we heard the sound of a bomb explosion followed by gunfire that lasted for 20 minutes between gunmen and the convoy people who were foreigners and dressed in civilian clothes. Everybody in the street started to flee immediately," said Hussein Abdul-Abbas, who owns a mobile phone store in the area.

The wartime numbers of private guards are unprecedented — as are their duties, many of which have traditionally been done by soldiers. They protect U.S. military operations and diplomats and have guarded high-ranking officials including Gen. David Petraeus, the top U.S. commander in Baghdad.

They also protect journalists, visiting foreign officials and thousands of construction projects.

Blackwater has an estimated 1,000 employees in Iraq, and at least $800 million in government contracts. It is one of the most high-profile security firms in Iraq, with its fleet of "Little Bird" helicopters and armed door gunners swarming Baghdad and beyond.

The secretive company, run by a former Navy SEAL, is based at a massive, swampland complex. Until the Sept. 11, 2001 terror attacks, it had few security contracts.

Since then, Blackwater profits have soared. And it has become the focus of numerous controversies in Iraq, including the May 30 shooting death of an Iraqi deemed to be driving too close to a Blackwater security detail.

In violence Monday, a suicide bomber detonated his explosives-laden car near a busy market in Baghdad, killing three people and wounding 10 in an attack that apparently targeted a police patrol, said a police officer, who spoke on condition of anonymity as he was not authorized to release the information.

Hamid Ghassan, a 20-year-old juice vendor, who described hearing the blast, said he was dismayed that al-Maliki's government is "sitting safe, making agreements and lying to people while masses ... are being killed."
War criminals are not welcome here either. Dont come home!
These delinquents will only commit acts of terror over here if they cant oppress and murder people "over there".
Notice how quiet its been here, stateside? Its because the malevolent ones are on hiatus in Iraq.
Right wing terrorism will return. Watch for bombings of Planned Parenthood and gay bars. Mark my words.

Does this mean our troops will be serving private business interests?

http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/6361/libertyshamels8.jpg

Blackwater thugs were doing the jobs that our troops are forbidden by Geneva Conventions (and other treaties) to do.

[Oedipus Rex]

Whaaaahhh!!!!

[bobbylien]

Shouldn't it be the role of our armed forces to protect Iraq? Privatizing our military has got to be the worst idea ever.

[DANG]

Shouldn't it be the role of our armed forces to protect Iraq? Privatizing our military has got to be the worst idea ever.
Ideally, there should be an International Peacekeeping apparatus in place by now. (Led by the UN, not the USA)

But that wouldnt really help Cheneys Energy Plans for the region.

[heyjude]

I wonder what the Iraqi people must think? Not only does the military kill them, but any civilian can kill them at will. No questions asked. Oh, I forgot. We don't give a damn about the Iraqi people. This is about us, and our desire for their oil.

[Stoner]

Too bad. I have 3 friends who work for Blackwater. Everyone who works for them are all really great guys. It's too bad this happened. They did a lot of good over there.

[jafar00]

Better late than never. These animals need to be rounded up.

[Truth_and_Power]

Better late than never. These animals need to be rounded up.


They're in the mountains of pakistan, not in iraq.

[DANG]

Just heard on the radio;
Blackwater ordered out of the country IMMEDIATELY.

Except for those involved in the murders yesterday. Those will be standing trial.

:thumbsup::clapper::clapper::clapper::thumbsup:

Goddam racists shouldnt be allowed back into the States.

[bobbylien]

I challenge the patriotism of any ex-military man who works for Blackwater.

[Elrathin]

Everyone who works for them are all really great guys.


Obviously not the ones that did this.

[Alonzo]

Whaaaahhh!!!!


And that sums up the conservative side.

[TheStripey1]

I wonder what the Iraqi people must think? Not only does the military kill them, but any civilian can kill them at will. No questions asked. Oh, I forgot. We don't give a damn about the Iraqi people. This is about us, and our desire for their oil.


and yet, we claim to be a Christian Society... yeah right...

I have asked many a right winger this question, but nary a single one has been able to provide me with the answer...

when did Jesus say it was ok to kill your brother and steal his goods because you think you deserve them more than he does?

Book, Chapter and Verse please...[hr]

Better late than never. These animals need to be rounded up.


They're in the mountains of pakistan, not in iraq.


Riiiiiiiiiiiight... Osama Been Forgotten and his group of rag tag terrorists...

too bad bush flip flopped when he cut and ran from Afghanistan to invade Iraq instead of hunting OBF down like he vowed to do 6 years ago.

[Oedipus Rex]

Whaaaahhh!!!!


And that sums up the conservative side.





I only voiced what the Libs were thinking. Must be a sore spot.....:thumbsup:

[ViolaLee]

This is good news. We should not have any private armies in Iraq that don't follow our military's laws and codes of honor. It's a recipe for disastor. They are paid hundreds of thousands of dollars a year while our troops are paid about $30,000.

[heyjude]

I read two interesting things about this in the NYTimes today. One, that the private companies we hire to go to Iraq do not have to obey any Iraqi laws. The second is that we are apparently going to keep the Blackwater company there, irregardless of what the Iraqis say. After all, we are the people running the government there. We are occupiers.

[ViolaLee]

I read two interesting things about this in the NYTimes today. One, that the private companies we hire to go to Iraq do not have to obey any Iraqi laws. The second is that we are apparently going to keep the Blackwater company there, irregardless of what the Iraqis say. After all, we are the people running the government there. We are occupiers.

I was afraid of that. This whole war is an experiment in privatizing everything. Bush wants to privatize the oil, privatize the security forces, privatize their health care, privatize their schools. It's just a big fat failure all around.

Bush doesn't want to follow the laws of the US government, he certainly won't give a f uck about the laws of the Iraqi government. He'll leave the Blackwater militia there, lawless and overpaid, compared to our troops.[hr]This is just going to delay our "winning" of this war, if Bush doesn't pull the Blackwater killers out of there.

Iraqi authorities have issued previous complaints about shootings by private military contractors, the Congressional Research Service reported in July.

"Most recently, a news article discussing an incident in which a Blackwater guard shot dead an Iraqi driver in May 2007 quoted an Iraqi official's statement that the Iraqi Interior Ministry had received four previous complaints of shootings involving Blackwater employees," the congressional service report said.

The Congressional Research Service report cited other concerns, such as "the apparent lack of a practical means to hold contractors accountable under U.S. law for abuses and other transgressions and the possibility that they could be prosecuted by foreign courts."

The reported added, "Iraqi courts do not have jurisdiction to prosecute contractors without the permission of the relevant member country of the Multi-National Forces in Iraq."

Contractors fall under Justice Department and FBI jurisdiction for alleged crimes, said a Pentagon official, who confirmed the accuracy of the congressional report.http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/09/17/iraq.main/index.html?eref=rss_topstories

We aren't going to let Iraqi courts dole out the Justice either.

[DANG]

The police should just release them to the crowd.

[Truth_and_Power]

Whaaaahhh!!!!


And that sums up the conservative side.





I only voiced what the Libs were thinking. Must be a sore spot.....:thumbsup:


We certainly appreciate you speaking on our behalf. Not only are we a homogenous front, but we think you speak best for all of us.[hr]
The police should just release them to the crowd.


But the iraqi laws apply to the iraqis that could retaliate.. unless they work for the interior ministry.

[DANG]

Cooler heads would say even THEY deserve a fair trial.

I am just so damn angry at all the war crimes.

[lily]

The second is that we are apparently going to keep the Blackwater company there, irregardless of what the Iraqis say. After all, we are the people running the government there. We are occupiers.


Well if that's true this just might be a turning point in the war.

[heyjude]

This evenings news reported that Blackwater is providing security for our construction companies and for the American Ambassador. If they have to leave, it would fall on the US military, which doesn't have the man power, or the Iraqi police. I don't think anyone believes that the Iraqi police would stop anyone from killing an occupier of their land. I wouldn't if the situation were reversed.

[ViolaLee]

I need to learn the circumstances of the killings. Why were innocent civilians killed?

I think Iraqis should be doing the construction. And Iraqis should be guarding the Iraqi construction workers.

If they had jobs, they wouldn't be killing eachother.

I think our government is doing pretty much everything wrong that they could possible do wrong. The Iraqis are walking around unemployed. When people have no water, electricity and jobs, they turn to crime. It's common sense.


Cooler heads would say even THEY deserve a fair trial.

I am just so damn angry at all the war crimes.


Me too.

[Stoner]

This evenings news reported that Blackwater is providing security for our construction companies and for the American Ambassador.

This is correct. Blackwater carries out many other important duties as well in Iraq. They are very good at what they do and great people to boot.

[ViolaLee]

Here is a video news report on this. (http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/09/17/iraq.main/index.html?eref=rss_topstories#cnnSTCVideo)

They were guarding some US politicians.

We don't need private security forces without rules. We need the US military to do these jobs.

There are 25,000 private security forces in Iraq. (http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/09/17/iraq.main/)[hr]

This evenings news reported that Blackwater is providing security for our construction companies and for the American Ambassador.

This is correct. Blackwater carries out many other important duties as well in Iraq. They are very good at what they do and great people to boot.


A privatized military is a horrible idea.

[lily]

This evenings news reported that Blackwater is providing security for our construction companies and for the American Ambassador. If they have to leave, it would fall on the US military, which doesn't have the man power, or the Iraqi police. I don't think anyone believes that the Iraqi police would stop anyone from killing an occupier of their land. I wouldn't if the situation were reversed.


Exactly. That's why I said this could be a turning point. There just isn't enough soldiers to do the job As ads (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/09/16/AR2007091601341.html?wpisrc=newsletter) like these turn up........no security clearance neccessary.




'Help Wanted' Ad Belies Report on Iraq Security

By Walter Pincus
Monday, September 17, 2007; Page A17

A week ago today, Gen. David H. Petraeus started his rounds on Capitol Hill,
reporting that security in Iraq was improving to the point that a small
number of troops could begin coming home by year's end.

But 10 days ago, his commanders in Baghdad began advertising for private
contractors to work in combat-supply warehouses on U.S. bases throughout
Iraq because half the soldiers who had been working in the warehouses were
needed for patrols, combat and protection of U.S. forces.


"With the increased insurgent activity, unit supply personnel must continue
to pull force protection along with convoy escort and patrol duties,"
according to a statement of work that accompanied the Sept. 7 request for
bidders from Multi-National Force-Iraq.

All of the small logistics bases, called Supply Support Activities, or SSAs,
are "currently using about 50% of their assigned (currently less than 100%
strength) military personnel for other required duties (force protection,
patrols, escort duties, etc. along with performing 24 hour combat
operations)," the statement says.

The contract proposal covers 10 of the logistics bases and another warehouse
with chemical protective items. Although the initial request is for 101
individuals qualified in warehouse operations, "additional manning may be
required and the contractor should anticipate possible increases," according
to the proposal. Some locations may end up being "completely manned by
contract personnel," the statement says.

The Supply Support Activities support day-to-day combat operations by
providing parts and ensuring that stocks are received and distributed "in a
timely manner." In addition, the statement notes that "tanks, aircraft,
wheeled vehicles and other equipment" are getting increased use and require
more repair parts than are typically available in the warehouses. The
increased contract personnel will allow the parts to get back to a central
depot and returned to troops more quickly. The proposal, which is for six
months and has a six-month extension option, calls for some personnel to be
familiar and experienced with "hazardous/radioactive material handling." At
the same time, it states, "Contractor personnel are not required to have a
security clearance to perform duties in the SSA." A comment on the Web site
version of the proposal adds, "Ensure this is correct."

Many of the stocks involved are maintained in mobile vans on bases, and so
"the majority of the work will be performed outside," the statement says.

The various bases hosting the warehouses will supply military transportation
for the contract workers from their living area to the work site, but the
personnel "will never be allowed to travel alone and will never be
authorized use of a tactical or non-tactical vehicle for travel outside the
base without a military escort and required force protection measures."

The work schedule proposed is "ten hours per day, six days a week to include
holidays" with a lunch period of one hour. Living space will be provided by
the military, though "in the short term that may be a tent with cots and
shower and toilet facilities." When "living containers or hardstand
buildings" exist, the contractors will be moved along with military.

Military dining facilities and bottled water will be free for contractors.
They will also have access to the PX and any local recreation facilities on
the bases.

Military medical facilities, however, are available only when "life, limb,
or eyesight is jeopardized and for emergency medical and dental care" such
as "broken bones, refills of life-dependent drugs such as insulin or broken
teeth." Military medical facilities will not be authorized for "routine
medical and dental care."

As noted in an earlier Fine Print column, the Army is exploring the
possibility of hiring a private health-care provider to take care of its
roughly 129,000 contract personnel in Iraq and lighten their use of military
medical facilities.

[Oedipus Rex]

Whaaaahhh!!!!


And that sums up the conservative side.





I only voiced what the Libs were thinking. Must be a sore spot.....:thumbsup:


We certainly appreciate you speaking on our behalf. Not only are we a homogenous front, but we think you speak best for all of us.[hr]




Ya want some cheese with that whine?:innocent:

[jafar00]

The Iraqi Government needs to go a step further and outlaw all lawless, Mercenaries for Hire, not just Blackwater. They will just be replaced by other murders, and thieves otherwise.

[ViolaLee]

The Iraqi Government needs to go a step further and outlaw all lawless, Mercenaries for Hire, not just Blackwater. They will just be replaced by other murders, and thieves otherwise.
I agree.

And just like the war cannot be won without diplomacy and political reconsiliation, the war cannot be won without rule of law. If there are US persons in Iraq, breaking laws and killing people, the war is lost.

The only way we can win this thing is to get Iraqis jobs, water, electricity and security.

Our military seems to be only working on security.

And without the rest, security cannot last.

[Marley]

...and outlaw all lawless...

ROTFLMAO


Uh, please, help me out here, what "lawlessness" IS NOT "outlawed?"

[Buck Laser]

Although the US to some extent owes success in its revolution to mercenaries from Germany and France, I've never cared for the concept of mercenary soldiers fighting our wars. These wars in the middle east are advertised as "defense." aren't they? Isn't one of the basic constitutional requirements that the nation provide for the common defense? Then why the hell are we outsourcing our defense?

Is it to make our involvement look less serious than it is? Is it to let someone not subject to the UCMJ do the "wet work?" I'd really like to see a cogent explanation from some of the enthusiasts of the mercenaries--not just "some of them are my best friends."

[ViolaLee]

...and outlaw all lawless...

ROTFLMAO


Uh, please, help me out here, what "lawlessness" IS NOT "outlawed?"
In Iraq, the civilian, privately contracted body guards don't follow military law, US law or Iraqi law.

They are lawless and it is not been outlawed until now, when the Iraqi government is trying to get them thrown out of the country.

Will the US abide by this decision?

Probably not.

[heyjude]

The US will put it in diplomatic terms, but the gist will be, the Iraqis will have to suck it up. Too damn bad. We own Iraq. We will do whatever we want. If they don't like it, we have ways of dealing with them. The government will last only as long as the bully in the WH says it will. The people will be killed at will. And if we decide to allow a few objectors to live, we will send them to Gitmo, where they will be kept forever, without charges, defence, or trial.

[jafar00]

...and outlaw all lawless...

ROTFLMAO


Uh, please, help me out here, what "lawlessness" IS NOT "outlawed?"


Please excuse the misplaced comma. :blah:

[ViolaLee]

The US will put it in diplomatic terms, but the gist will be, the Iraqis will have to suck it up. Too damn bad. We own Iraq. We will do whatever we want. If they don't like it, we have ways of dealing with them. The government will last only as long as the bully in the WH says it will. The people will be killed at will. And if we decide to allow a few objectors to live, we will send them to Gitmo, where they will be kept forever, without charges, defence, or trial.


And sadly, this is exactly the impression that Iraqis and the rest of the world have of us.

The world will breathe a huge sigh of relief when we Americans finally vote in our next President, Obama or Clinton or Edwards.

[heyjude]

I wish it were as easy as that. Bush has the US in a quagmire. It will take more than just an order to leave Iraq. Bush has set a trap for the next POTUS that it will take a Houdini to get out of. If there was a god in heaven, that ass would be dead with some horrible death.

[tony mitra]

Well, I hear private mercenary armies such as Blackwater actually helps the war effort and diverts domestic criticism in the US away from the Government because of a few reasons, such as:
a) Death of their personnel do not count as US soldiers killed
b) They free up soldiers for other duties, thereby allowing more military goals to be covered by a limited armed force.
c) They are reputed to be better soldiers than the army - so they can perform tougher jobs.
d) They do not come under Iraqi jurisdiction, and neither do they strictly come under the US military jurisdiction. They are unlikely to be court marshalled for excesses, by the US armed services internal justice system. They are also not strictly under US federal or state jurisdiction.

They are supposed to be accountable, somehow, but the details are vague. They were contracted by the US Government when Iraq was under Paul Bremer's administration. But Iraq was technically handed over to a local Government. Somehow, the status of the Mercenary armies were left not fully resolved.

Meanwhile, the Iraqi Prime Minister, Mr. Malaki, halucinated for about 15 minutes thinking Iraq might just be a free country where he could make decisions on who gets to stay in Iraq and who doesn't, thereby ordering Blackwatr out of Iraq. His elusion was set right soon enough by a call from Condi Rice. Who stays and who doesnt, is decided in Washington, not Baghdad. How arrogant of Mr. Maliki. Who does he think he is ?:jammin:

Now the US Govt is reportedly cancelling all travels for US officials outside the Green Zone, While Blackwater is grounded and an investigation is ongoing.

http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/41TOa4oQVOL._BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-dp-500-arrow,TopRight,45,-64_OU01_AA240_SH20_.jpg

Here is a book I did not read. Don't like mercenaries and dont feel like spending money to read about them. But I did hear about them on podcasts, including their involvement in New Orleans during the aftermath of Katrina.

[Stoner]

Very good post, Tony. I enjoy your posts. You get a greenie. And speaking of greenies...http://planetsmilies.net/smoking-smiley-5440.gif (http://planetsmilies.net)

[DANG]

A freeze put on travel outside the Green Zone. (speaking of green)

http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/09/18/blackwater.iraq/index.html?eref=rss_topstories

[ViolaLee]

Very good post, Tony. I enjoy your posts. You get a greenie. And speaking of greenies...http://planetsmilies.net/smoking-smiley-5440.gif (http://planetsmilies.net)

I thought you were all for Blackwater mercenaries?

[jafar00]

A freeze on travel outside the "green" zone? But I thought they said the surge was working and everything was all rosy and cheerful in Iraq?

[Stoner]

But I thought they said the surge was working and everything was all rosy and cheerful in Iraq?


It's not easy putting a country of 25 million people back together after decades of torture, murder and neglect.

And no one said everything was cheerful and rosey. That's just Kos/Moveon spin to degrade all the hard work our soldiers have done.

And BTW, I've noticed ever since you've become a mod your lib views have become 10 times more intense. Hmmmmm, wonder why that is.

[ViolaLee]

Stoner, decades of torture, murder and neglect isn't what tore Iraq up, it was shock and awe and subsequent incompetence after Mission Accomplished that tore Iraq up.

Here's why this Blackwater incident happened. US politicians want to make it look like all is safe in Iraq. So they hire Blackwater body guards to escort them outside of the green zone. This way they can say they walked the streets of Iraq and it was safe.

Meanwhile, it's not safe. If it were safe, they wouldn't need hired mercenaries to protect them.

A U.S. congressional report estimates that 200 private security guards have been killed in Iraq.

On Monday, the Interior Ministry announced it was suspending Blackwater's license and halting the security contractor's operations in Iraq.

On Tuesday, the State Department issued a warden's message advising that the U.S. Embassy in Baghdad "has suspended official U.S. government civilian ground movements outside the International Zone" -- the formal name of the central Baghdad district that houses the embassy -- "and throughout Iraq."

Today, Wednesday Iraq is URGING the US to get Blackwater out of Iraq.

Iraqi Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki called on the U.S. government Wednesday to end its contract with Blackwater USA after a lethal shooting incident this week.

Iraqi officials have expressed outrage at eyewitness accounts that Blackwater contractors "initiated random and indiscriminate shooting at civilians" Sunday in Baghdad's Mansour area, according to an Interior Ministry spokesman, Brig. Gen. Abdul Kareem Khalaf.

The ministry said Wednesday that at least 10 Iraqis were killed and 10 wounded -- all civilians except for a traffic policeman killed while rushing to the aid of a family caught in the crossfire.

Blackwater claims they were insurgents.

CNN (http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/09/19/blackwater.iraq/index.html?eref=rss_topstories)

[jafar00]

But I thought they said the surge was working and everything was all rosy and cheerful in Iraq?


It's not easy putting a country of 25 million people back together after decades of torture, murder and neglect.


It wasn't in pieces in the first place. In fact before sanctions, Iraq was quite prosperous, and more safe than it is now.


And no one said everything was cheerful and rosey. That's just Kos/Moveon spin to degrade all the hard work our soldiers have done.


The hard work they have done is to destroy the civilian infrastructure, fracture the relative harmony they had before, kill 100's of 1000's, and give free reign to terrorists so they can kill indiscriminately.
That's not Kos/Moveon spin, it's cold hard fact.


And BTW, I've noticed ever since you've become a mod your lib views have become 10 times more intense. Hmmmmm, wonder why that is.


My views have been the same all along. Read back a while :P
It has nothing to do with being a mod.

[lily]

Now the US Govt is reportedly cancelling all travels for US officials outside the Green Zone, While Blackwater is grounded and an investigation is ongoing.



Well......this is sure going to put a damper on all the presidential candidates and senators who want to put Iraq in the background of their photo-ops and doing any checking on progress.

On the other hand.......get rid of them all. Use the money we spent on them on better equipment for our troops.........and while we're at it, make Malike look like he's doing something.

[heyjude]

It is hard to get a nation to rally around a puppet government. We had the same problem in VN. Bush shoving Blackwater down the Iraqis throats is just further proof that they don't have a government of their own. And for us to not subject them to Iraqi law is an insult. Blackwater is apparently the worst of them.[hr]As Spencer Ackerman of TPMmuckraker reports, the State Department has a vested interest in whether Blackwater acted offensively or defensively during the shootout, since their rules of engagement “are set by State” and are more aggressive than “other security contractors who use the Military Rules of Engagement and Rules of Force.”

Additionally, the State Department “rarely” conducts thorough investigations of such incidents in Iraq. “We get almost weekly reports of such shootings,” a State Department official told The Blotter. “But it is close to impossible to go the crime scene and interview witnesses.” thinkprogress.org

So, apparently there are no constraints on Blackwater. They kill anyone they want. No questions asked.

[NDNdancer]

Iraq: Video Shows Blackwater Overreacted
Official: 'On the Tape, There Was Nobody Shooting at the Blackwater Guards'

I hoped there was video. Now the Iraqi people will be justified in kicking them out of their country.

Story & Video (http://abcnews.go.com/WN/IraqCoverage/story?id=3640457&page=1)

[tony mitra]

So what's the verdict?

Is blood thicker than Blackwater, or not?
:ponder: