Who has the proof?

[crimzonsol]

Every one seems to be ready to say that The Iraq War has increased terrorist recruitment.

My question is: Has The Iraq War caused increased Terrorist Recruitment or an increase in Terrorist Attacks?
I would like actual reports of increased terrorists, News does not count.

My thought would be that all it has done is increased terrorist attacks or it has only slightly raised recruitment because if there was an increase in organized terrorism you would think that we would be able to infiltrate and destroy terrorist networks. People will say that we can't infiltrate them because they are too secretive, too good at spoting infiltrators, but I say then if they are so scretive and secure then how coudl there be a huge raise in terrorist numbers.

[AnnEsthesia]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3756650.stm

This was in 2004. I will keep looking, but I know our own government has stated that al Qaeda is as strong now as it was before 9/11.[hr]Then there is this:

The CIA's National Intelligence Council -- "the Intelligence Community's (IC's) center for midterm and long-term strategic thinking" -- identified Iraq as succeeding Afghanistan as the major new training ground for terrorists. "The al-Qa'ida membership that was distinguished by having trained in Afghanistan will gradually dissipate, to be replaced in part by the dispersion of the experienced survivors of the conflict in Iraq," the council stated in a report titled "Mapping the Global Future." At the time of the report's release, NIC chairman Robert L. Hutchings stated that Iraq is currently "a magnet for international terrorist activity."

A January 18 Knight Ridder article further reported that "Islamic militants allied with or inspired by Osama bin Laden were forging ties to Iraqi nationalists and remnants of former dictator Saddam Hussein's regime," citing two "senior intelligence officials with access to classified reporting." One of the officials was quoted saying, "The sad thing is we have created what the administration claimed we were intervening to prevent: an Iraq/al-Qaida linkage."

Other analyses have perceived a similar trend in terrorist recruitment. The International Institute for Strategic Studies (IISS), a British think tank that focuses on political-military conflict, concluded in the 2004-05 edition of its report, The Military Balance, that it "is probable that [Al Qaeda] recruitment generally has accelerated on account of Iraq." "Al-Qaeda has added Iraq to its list of grievances," the report stated. "With Osama Bin Laden's public encouragement, up to 1,000 foreign jihadists may have infiltrated Iraq."


http://mediamatters.org/items/200507130002

[crimzonsol]

It is probable that recruitment generally has accelerated on account of Iraq," the report concludes.


That doesn't help, I want numbers. I want to be able to see that Terrorists are be recruited rather than people already trained are only now starting to attack. I have seen no evidience that terrorists are joining organized terrorist networks, people just say well because more bombs are going off more people must be terrorists.


Al-Qaeda has added Iraq to its list of grievances. With Osama Bin Laden's public encouragement, up to 1,000 foreign jihadists may have infiltrated Iraq.


This does not show that there are more terrorists, it only shows that people who are "soldiers" are going to the battle, I do not find that suprising some how.

Sorry, your going to have to do better than that.

[Scorpion]

It is probable that recruitment generally has accelerated on account of Iraq," the report concludes.


That doesn't help, I want numbers. I want to be able to see that Terrorists are be recruited rather than people already trained are only now starting to attack. I have seen no evidience that terrorists are joining organized terrorist networks, people just say well because more bombs are going off more people must be terrorists.


Al-Qaeda has added Iraq to its list of grievances. With Osama Bin Laden's public encouragement, up to 1,000 foreign jihadists may have infiltrated Iraq.


This does not show that there are more terrorists, it only shows that people who are "soldiers" are going to the battle, I do not find that suprising some how.

Sorry, your going to have to do better than that.


What is this, a test to see who can do your research for you?

The very nature of terrorist organizations and their counter-intelligence abilities does not lend itself to accurate statistics regarding current personnel levels and recruitment activities. As the article which Ann offered, active recruitment is taking place and operational personnel are at or better then pre 9/11 levels.

[crimzonsol]

What I am saying is that this article does not tell me that there are more terrorists. As you said, you cannot have any acurrate statistics regarding terrorist groups, so why is everybody ready to say that the Iraq war is creating terrorists? so far I not seen any proof that the Iraq war is creating Terrorists, yet liberals seem so ready to believe that it is.

[Scorpion]

What I am saying is that this article does not tell me that there are more terrorists. As you said, you cannot have any acurrate statistics regarding terrorist groups, so why is everybody ready to say that the Iraq war is creating terrorists? so far I not seen any proof that the Iraq war is creating Terrorists, yet liberals seem so ready to believe that it is.


Intelligence indicates that Al Qaeda in Iraq is actively recruiting in Syria, Lebanon, the Persian Gulf area and Gaza. Precise recruitment figures are not available but from verified source intelligence it is apparent that recruitment efforts have been successful thereby confirming that the war in Iraq is creating terrorists.

Here's a link that you might find interesting: http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/1015-04.htm

[crimzonsol]

Just to point out, trying to find terrorists in the areas around Israel doesn't really require much work. Most Syrians hate Israel, Lebanon was just bombed by Israel, Gaza is in Israel, The Persian Gulf I don't know about.
My quesition about that is are Terrorists just moving from one group to another and do those that move actually have an impact.

[AnnEsthesia]

So basically, you want hard facts which is impossible, so you are just posing a question and are going to then state that no answer is good enough.

[Scorpion]

Just to point out, trying to find terrorists in the areas around Israel doesn't really require much work. Most Syrians hate Israel, Lebanon was just bombed by Israel, Gaza is in Israel, The Persian Gulf I don't know about.
My quesition about that is are Terrorists just moving from one group to another and do those that move actually have an impact.


I doubt that anyone can say for certain how many of those who join Al Qaeda in Iraq have previous ties to terrorist organizations. I suspect that some have. I'm not certain what you mean by "impact" but reports have indicated that a number of suicide bombers in Baghdad were Al Qaeda in Iraq members who were recruited in Syria.

As to the issue of terrorist recruits hating Israel, I'll leave that to your judgement.

[crimzonsol]

So basically, you want hard facts which is impossible, so you are just posing a question and are going to then state that no answer is good enough.


If you want to give me an anwser that I found good enough, you
would be working longer than 1000 monkeys hitting random keys would take to reproduce shakespears Hamlet. I never find an anwser that is good enough, I keep trying to disprove myself.


reports have indicated that a number of suicide bombers in Baghdad were Al Qaeda in Iraq members who were recruited in Syria.

That is the kind of thing that I want to prove that the Iraq war is causing a recruitment rise.

[Scorpion]

That is the kind of thing that I want to prove that the Iraq war is causing a recruitment rise.


Take a look at this: http://www.opinionjournal.com/editorial/feature.html?id=110010496