PDA

View Full Version : Prejudice still a barrier in presidential elections


AlonzoMourning23
07-05-2006, 12:46 PM
BOSTON — Most traditional barriers to religion in presidential elections have toppled, a new Los Angeles Times/Bloomberg poll has found. In particular, the survey released today shows that anti-Semitism and anti-Catholicism are fading among voters.

But uneasiness about some religions persists. Thirty-seven percent of those questioned said they would not vote for a Mormon presidential candidate, and 54% said no to the prospect of a Muslim in the White House.

In addition, 21% said they could not vote for an evangelical Christian.

Fifteen percent said they would not vote for a Jewish presidential candidate, and 10% were unwilling to cast ballots favoring a Catholic chief executive.

"This clearly shows that the old Protestant/Catholic/Jewish distinction has largely eroded in American politics," said David Campbell, a professor of political science at the University of Notre Dame. "That doesn't mean that candidates from religious groups that might be considered to be exotic, in the way that Catholics once were thought to be exotic, wouldn't necessarily be confronted with challenges."

The nationwide survey of 1,321 adults was conducted June 24 to 27. The poll has a margin of sampling error of plus or minus 3 percentage points, Poll Director Susan Pinkus said.

Poll results were released in three stages. Economic findings came out Thursday; political conclusions on Friday; and information about religion today.

No Muslims appear likely to seek the presidency in 2008. But the numbers could be a threat to Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney, a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (as the Mormon Church is formally known) who is exploring a run for the GOP presidential nomination.

"It is something he will have to address," said Merle Black, a professor of politics at Emory University. "It will be a challenge. It doesn't necessarily kill him as a candidate, but he may have to talk in more detail than he ever has before about his faith."

His religion apparently was no detriment in Massachusetts in 2002, when he easily won election as governor. Massachusetts is one of the most heavily Catholic states in the country, and also one of the most Democratic.

The governor is from a family that is almost as political as it is Mormon. His late father, George Romney, was a three-term governor of Michigan who also made a brief, unsuccessful run for the Republican presidential nomination. Lenore Romney, the Massachusetts governor's late mother, lost a Republican bid for the U.S. Senate.

Mitt Romney, who made a fortune as a venture capitalist, suffered defeat in his maiden political outing in 1994 when he ran against Democrat Edward M. Kennedy for a U.S. Senate seat in Massachusetts.

As a young man, Romney was a Mormon missionary in France. He graduated from LDS-sponsored Brigham Young University in Utah. Romney was president of an LDS stake — a group of local congregations, comparable to a Catholic diocese — in Belmont, Mass., where his family settled more than 30 years ago. He has also overseen a local Mormon congregation as a bishop.

A great-grandfather had five wives, but the church now opposes polygamy, as does Romney. The Mormon Church has about 12.5 million members worldwide, according to the church website; a little under half are in the U.S.

Romney is reticent about his religion, citing privacy and contending that candidates should not be judged on their "brand of faith." But he regularly describes himself as a Christian, saying, "Jesus Christ is my savior."

Some branches of Christianity do not embrace the Mormon Church. On its website, the Southern Baptist Convention includes Mormonism in a section called "cults, sects and new religious movements." Kenyn Cureton, a vice president of the Baptist convention, says his church does not regard Mormons as Christians.

"They are not orthodox in their beliefs," Cureton said. "They have additional books that they add to the Bible, which evangelical Christians believe is God's word. They believe that there are many, many gods and that you too can become a god in your own world. It sounds good, but unfortunately it is not based on sound teaching."

Cureton praised Mormons as "very moral, very family-oriented people." Southern Baptists, he said, "would appreciate that angle. But as far as our beliefs, we would have disagreements."

Republican political consultant Mike Murphy, who advised Romney in his gubernatorial bid, said any discussion about Romney's religion as a potential obstacle to the presidency was premature, and probably misplaced. Murphy also has counseled the Massachusetts governor as he tests the waters for the 2008 presidential race.

"I think the poll is wrong," Murphy said. "I think this is a classic example of how with polling data, you can find something that is not predictive at all."

Besides, Murphy said, "When he ran for governor of Massachusetts, everybody said there was no way a Mormon would win in one of the most Catholic states in America. I've been to this movie before."

If his religion was the only thing voters knew about Romney in a "hypothetical candidacy," that could be an impediment, Murphy said.

"If he runs, I think he won't be judged only through that prism," he said. "When you break it down to one aspect for a guy, that is a mistake. Polls, I am sure, said the exact same thing about John F. Kennedy a year before he ran."

Indeed, in a Roper poll from June 1960, 35% of respondents said either that it might be better not to have a Catholic president or that they would be against it. Then-Sen. John F. Kennedy gave a speech on the subject of his religion that September, and he was elected president two months later.

But Emory University political scientist Black rejected the comparison to biases against Catholic or Jewish candidates.

"I don't think it is of the same status, because Mormonism has never been seen as a mainstream religion," Black said.

If Romney does seek his party's nomination, Black said that especially among Southern Baptists, the hesitancy about Mormonism could be "a huge problem."

Black predicted: "He's going to have to defend himself and explain himself. If he makes it through to the general election, there may be some validation."

Campbell, of Notre Dame, agreed that the early primaries would be critical for Romney, should he seek the presidency.

According to Campbell, "The question facing Mitt Romney is: Will he be the Mormons' Al Smith — who was the first Catholic ever to run for president, in 1928, and went down in flames — or will he be the Mormons' John F. Kennedy?"


http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-mormonpoll3jul03,0,4437412,full.story?coll=la-home-headlines

Anti-Racism
10-05-2006, 02:55 PM
The most important number there is the 21% who are not willing to vote for evangelical Christians. That includes a number of folks on the right who are dismayed with the current guy.

AlonzoMourning23
10-05-2006, 08:32 PM
Yes, since all evangelicals think alike :rolleyes:.

You just illustrated my point.

Anti-Racism
10-05-2006, 11:54 PM
Yes, since all evangelicals think alike

In some areas, they do, such as the need for evangelism hence the name.

AlonzoMourning23
10-06-2006, 12:05 AM
Yes, since all evangelicals think alike

In some areas, they do, such as the need for evangelism hence the name.


And the mistake to assume everyone is very religious.

I also used to have an evangelical friend. He was pro-choice, pro-gay rights, pro-gay marriage, and pro separation of church and state. He would regularly attend religious retreats and events.

He had two entirely different sets of opinions, one for how religion should work and one for how government should work.

Labrocca
10-06-2006, 12:19 AM
Hmm..I find the 54% wouldn't vote for a muslim to be weird. I would really think that number to be higher. I wonder if people are being honest with themselves in this polk.

As for Mormons..I would vote for one myself. Living in Vegas I have met a ton of Mormons. Good people the ones I have met and rarely do they bring up religion or preach it to others. They are firm in their beliefs but don't force it on others.

Anyways..good thread sir.

Anti-Racism
10-13-2006, 04:31 AM
And the mistake to assume everyone is very religious.


Sorry, you're making no sense here. A religion has stated goals. Some exceptions will not follow those, but they are a tiny minority. The rest follow. Evangelism is based on spreading the religion. It is plainly in front of your face and you do not see it - why?

AlonzoMourning23
10-13-2006, 04:34 AM
A religion has stated goals. Some exceptions will not follow those, but they are a tiny minority. The rest follow.

It helps to go talk to people sometimes. Ya know, those kids at the local college getting smashed and having premarital sex? Most of them are christian.

A sizeable percentage of any large religion will not be active followers, or will simply do the most obvious things but not alter their day to day life.

Anti-Racism
10-15-2006, 12:24 AM
Most of them are christian.

You forgot we're talking about evangelicals here. Or did you?

AlonzoMourning23
10-15-2006, 01:09 AM
Evangelicals are no different than any other group, some will be devout, but some won't be. And there are varying degrees in between.

Evangelicals are liberals, conservatives, and everything in between.

Anti-Racism
10-15-2006, 09:03 PM
Evangelicals are no different than any other group, some will be devout, but some won't be.

They are called evangelical because one tenet of their belief is the necessity of evangelizing.

AlonzoMourning23
10-16-2006, 12:03 AM
Anti, the same is true for most other christians.

And, again, you fail to realize that a significant group of any religion will not follow the teachings of their religion that much, or will do so only to varying degrees.

Anti-Racism
10-16-2006, 03:17 AM
Anti, the same is true for most other christians.

And, again, you fail to realize that a significant group of any religion will not follow the teachings of their religion that much, or will do so only to varying degrees.


If they do not follow its teachings, are they evangelicals and why do they not pick something they agree with as a religion? How big is this "significant (portion)"?

AlonzoMourning23
10-16-2006, 02:23 PM
Anti, every christian you see engaging in premarital sex is not following the teachings of their religion. The vast majority of christians you see not spreading gods word are not acting as a christian, in terms of how their branch would define it.

Christianity itself shares the same belief with Evangelicals, in that they need to spread gods word.

Elrathin
10-19-2006, 03:10 PM
Anti, every christian you see engaging in premarital sex is not following the teachings of their religion. The vast majority of christians you see not spreading gods word are not acting as a christian, in terms of how their branch would define it.

But then what it comes down to then, are they really Christians then?

Most of the people in America CLAIM to be Christian, but do they really follow what their religion says? Of course not. Saying you are a Christian, does not MEAN you are a Christian by default.

Me being agnostic, calling myself a Muslim or a Christian, does not mean that I am a Muslim or a Chsritian if I don't follow the teachings of the religions.

I knew a girl a long time ago that wouldn't miss a beat when asked her religion, she would reply "Christian". However, she did drugs, lied, cheated, stole, and when asked questions about her religion she had no clue. That isn't a Christian, that is someone who likes the name only.

How can you be Christian if you don't even know key things of your religion or follow them?

AlonzoMourning23
10-19-2006, 06:58 PM
Because you believe the most central concept, or an element of it. If you believe god is likely, and jesus is of some special importance beyond other humans, then you're christian. If you worship at a shrine devoted to Krishna then you're probably not.

With small religions, like wicca, someone may claim to be a witch out of ignorance, but know absolutely nothing, or hold to a mislabeled belief system. But with large religions that's rare.

There's a big difference between being of a religion and being a practicing and/or informed member of that religion.

Anti-Racism
10-21-2006, 04:25 PM
Because you believe the most central concept, or an element of it.


You mean like being an evangelical?

It's a good point.

However, keep in mind this ends "religious freedom." A government can disagree with that central concept and thus exclude all the people of that religion, or gas them and stuff them into ovens.

Hmm.

AlonzoMourning23
10-22-2006, 01:47 AM
However, keep in mind this ends "religious freedom." A government can disagree with that central concept and thus exclude all the people of that religion, or gas them and stuff them into ovens.


Mr. logical isn't making much sense.

Elrathin
10-22-2006, 03:58 PM
Because you believe the most central concept, or an element of it. If you believe god is likely, and jesus is of some special importance beyond other humans, then you're christian.


That is according to you. I know many Christians that think if you don't follow completely you are not a christian. All in how you look at it I guess.

If you choose to follow some parts of the bible and exclude other parts, I don't see how you can call yourself Christian. That's picking and choosing and that isn't what religion is about.

That is why I don't follow a certain religion, because I don't believe mankind has the capability of understanding religion without putting his own bias into it.

AlonzoMourning23
10-22-2006, 04:27 PM
But el, when you start do that you start excluding many devout followers. You get into the whole "well, bin laden's not a muslim" argument. Every group picks and chooses to some extent. As far as I'm concerned, the individual (in most cases) is the best judge of what religion they are or aren't.

Elrathin
10-22-2006, 04:47 PM
But el, when you start do that you start excluding many devout followers. You get into the whole "well, bin laden's not a muslim" argument.

Of course you start excluding those that don't follow the religion.There are VERY few people that actually follow their religion.


Every group picks and chooses to some extent. As far as I'm concerned, the individual (in most cases) is the best judge of what religion they are or aren't.


Yes, I know we have seen that. Many so called Christians, steal, lie, deceive, murder, deal drugs, do illegal things on a daily basis, but still call themselves Christians. It doesn't make them Christian.

Religion is a way of life, it's not something you just say you are, but don't act like.

The simple fact is most people aren't Chritsians, they just are in name only like som sort of nametag. They don't act the part.

Professor
11-30-2006, 06:23 PM
Here's my say in this:

Mormon- Maybe. I'm glad they don't support polygamy anymore, but I still don't know. I remember when Brokeback Mountain came out in Utah all hell broke loose. So I'll say I wouldn't not vote for them because they are Mormon.

Evangelical Christian- as long as he/she wasn't too far right and let there be separation between church and state, why not?

Jewish- okay. It might make the war on Xmas more interesting. :P

Catholic- I'd have to wait and see the candidate and how he/she interacts with the Pope. I'm not very fond of him. But barring that, yes.

Part of the problem with this is that there are many shades and hues of religion. You can be a Christian and be a very fervent follower or a sometimes attending services sort. Still both are Christian. The poll doesn't make distinctions for those differences.

namguy
09-15-2007, 05:48 PM
BOSTON — Most traditional barriers to religion in presidential elections have toppled, a new Los Angeles Times/Bloomberg poll has found. In particular, the survey released today shows that anti-Semitism and anti-Catholicism are fading among voters.

But uneasiness about some religions persists. Thirty-seven percent of those questioned said they would not vote for a Mormon presidential candidate, and 54% said no to the prospect of a Muslim in the White House.

In addition, 21% said they could not vote for an evangelical Christian.

Fifteen percent said they would not vote for a Jewish presidential candidate, and 10% were unwilling to cast ballots favoring a Catholic chief executive.

"This clearly shows that the old Protestant/Catholic/Jewish distinction has largely eroded in American politics," said David Campbell, a professor of political science at the University of Notre Dame. "That doesn't mean that candidates from religious groups that might be considered to be exotic, in the way that Catholics once were thought to be exotic, wouldn't necessarily be confronted with challenges."

The nationwide survey of 1,321 adults was conducted June 24 to 27. The poll has a margin of sampling error of plus or minus 3 percentage points, Poll Director Susan Pinkus said.

Poll results were released in three stages. Economic findings came out Thursday; political conclusions on Friday; and information about religion today.

No Muslims appear likely to seek the presidency in 2008. But the numbers could be a threat to Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney, a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (as the Mormon Church is formally known) who is exploring a run for the GOP presidential nomination.

"It is something he will have to address," said Merle Black, a professor of politics at Emory University. "It will be a challenge. It doesn't necessarily kill him as a candidate, but he may have to talk in more detail than he ever has before about his faith."

His religion apparently was no detriment in Massachusetts in 2002, when he easily won election as governor. Massachusetts is one of the most heavily Catholic states in the country, and also one of the most Democratic.

The governor is from a family that is almost as political as it is Mormon. His late father, George Romney, was a three-term governor of Michigan who also made a brief, unsuccessful run for the Republican presidential nomination. Lenore Romney, the Massachusetts governor's late mother, lost a Republican bid for the U.S. Senate.

Mitt Romney, who made a fortune as a venture capitalist, suffered defeat in his maiden political outing in 1994 when he ran against Democrat Edward M. Kennedy for a U.S. Senate seat in Massachusetts.

As a young man, Romney was a Mormon missionary in France. He graduated from LDS-sponsored Brigham Young University in Utah. Romney was president of an LDS stake — a group of local congregations, comparable to a Catholic diocese — in Belmont, Mass., where his family settled more than 30 years ago. He has also overseen a local Mormon congregation as a bishop.

A great-grandfather had five wives, but the church now opposes polygamy, as does Romney. The Mormon Church has about 12.5 million members worldwide, according to the church website; a little under half are in the U.S.

Romney is reticent about his religion, citing privacy and contending that candidates should not be judged on their "brand of faith." But he regularly describes himself as a Christian, saying, "Jesus Christ is my savior."

Some branches of Christianity do not embrace the Mormon Church. On its website, the Southern Baptist Convention includes Mormonism in a section called "cults, sects and new religious movements." Kenyn Cureton, a vice president of the Baptist convention, says his church does not regard Mormons as Christians.

"They are not orthodox in their beliefs," Cureton said. "They have additional books that they add to the Bible, which evangelical Christians believe is God's word. They believe that there are many, many gods and that you too can become a god in your own world. It sounds good, but unfortunately it is not based on sound teaching."

Cureton praised Mormons as "very moral, very family-oriented people." Southern Baptists, he said, "would appreciate that angle. But as far as our beliefs, we would have disagreements."

Republican political consultant Mike Murphy, who advised Romney in his gubernatorial bid, said any discussion about Romney's religion as a potential obstacle to the presidency was premature, and probably misplaced. Murphy also has counseled the Massachusetts governor as he tests the waters for the 2008 presidential race.

"I think the poll is wrong," Murphy said. "I think this is a classic example of how with polling data, you can find something that is not predictive at all."

Besides, Murphy said, "When he ran for governor of Massachusetts, everybody said there was no way a Mormon would win in one of the most Catholic states in America. I've been to this movie before."

If his religion was the only thing voters knew about Romney in a "hypothetical candidacy," that could be an impediment, Murphy said.

"If he runs, I think he won't be judged only through that prism," he said. "When you break it down to one aspect for a guy, that is a mistake. Polls, I am sure, said the exact same thing about John F. Kennedy a year before he ran."

Indeed, in a Roper poll from June 1960, 35% of respondents said either that it might be better not to have a Catholic president or that they would be against it. Then-Sen. John F. Kennedy gave a speech on the subject of his religion that September, and he was elected president two months later.

But Emory University political scientist Black rejected the comparison to biases against Catholic or Jewish candidates.

"I don't think it is of the same status, because Mormonism has never been seen as a mainstream religion," Black said.

If Romney does seek his party's nomination, Black said that especially among Southern Baptists, the hesitancy about Mormonism could be "a huge problem."

Black predicted: "He's going to have to defend himself and explain himself. If he makes it through to the general election, there may be some validation."

Campbell, of Notre Dame, agreed that the early primaries would be critical for Romney, should he seek the presidency.

According to Campbell, "The question facing Mitt Romney is: Will he be the Mormons' Al Smith — who was the first Catholic ever to run for president, in 1928, and went down in flames — or will he be the Mormons' John F. Kennedy?"


http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-mormonpoll3jul03,0,4437412,full.story?coll=la-home-headlines


Well, illreguardless of his religion I think he's make a president:peace:[hr]religion aside i think he'd make a good president