Cap Hill, Live Discussion.

[preservanation]

Whole lot of posturing going on out there now.
I hope some will listen and not just stick to their preconceived brick-wall-mind -sets.
Hunter is now nailing Lantos for echoing the "Betrayus" ad in the NYT.

[BoogyMan]

It appears that there is some technical difficulty with the microphones delaying the testimony.

[preservanation]

A bunch of wackos are in the wings waiting to disrupt the hearing.
I wonder what party they are affiliated with.
Hmmm....?[hr]Man, I hope the dems take this as serious as I do.
A circus is not what we need right now.

[AnnEsthesia]

Those 'whackos' no more represent all dems or libs that the Phelpses represent all conservatives.

[BoogyMan]

I bet someone is getting flogged right now over that sound system problem.

[preservanation]

Those 'whackos' no more represent all dems or libs that the Phelpses represent all conservatives.

Whatever.
I'm an OK lip-reader and there is some very interesting discussions going on right now.
Tune to CSpan to watch the fun!

[BoogyMan]

Petraeus just said "I wrote this testimony myself."

[AnnEsthesia]

No, not "whatever". You are making claims that are blatantly false.

[preservanation]

No, not "whatever". You are making claims that are blatantly false.

Your right I don't know who these protesters are.
I am guessing, using assumptions backed up by experience and observation of past behavior that they identify themselves as being to the left of center..

If they turn out to be conservative Republicans instead of lib Dems, I will profusely apologize.
I will be very surprised if I am called on to do so.

[AnnEsthesia]

And yet, even if they are lib dems, that DOES NOT MEAN that they are representative of all lib dems. Or are you unable to separate the individual from the group?

[preservanation]

Petraeus just said "I wrote this testimony myself."
That won't matter.
The left will just call him a liar again.

[AnnEsthesia]

moveon.org does not equal "the left"

[BoogyMan]

moveon.org does not equal "the left"


You have to admit though, AnnE, that they do represent a large group of the left. I will agree, however, that they do not represent the whole.

[AnnEsthesia]

not even a whole large group. Perhaps a very vocal minority, but hardly most. Most of the 'left' are not in line with them.

[preservanation]

I would say that Moveon=left, but if the Dems wake up they should make it clear that the left does not=Moveon.
Pythagoras would be interested in that equation.

[AnnEsthesia]

Sure and Fred Phelps = very far right, but right does not = Phelps.

[preservanation]

Sure and Fred Phelps = very far right, but right does not = Phelps.

Who?
What web sites does he run?[hr]"Draw down of our forces would have dire consequences"
Gen. Petraeus.

[BoogyMan]

not even a whole large group. Perhaps a very vocal minority, but hardly most. Most of the 'left' are not in line with them.


Now AnneE, I never said MOST, that is your word. I said that MoveOn.org represents a large group.

http://www.moveon.org/about.html

They claim a membership of 3.3 million. That is a large group.

[preservanation]

"We must continue operations..."
No wonder the Dems want to call him a liar and try to discredit him.
Oh wait, troops in Iraq have increased under Pelosi and co.

"Never mind"
-Emily Latela[hr]That right wing org, Code Pink is disrupting the hearing and stopping it dead in it's track.
unbelievable'
how do those wackos get in there???
Everyone should know who they are and what they will do.
Nuts to that.

[AnnEsthesia]

Not when you compare it to the number of Democrats:

72 million registered members

You call that a "large group' of democrats? I call it a small percentage.

[BoogyMan]

4.58 percent of ANY group is statistically significant AnnE.

[preservanation]

4.58 percent of ANY group is statistically significant AnnE.
Those are only members.
The percentage of libs that agree with their positions and ideology is much higher.

[AnnEsthesia]

Not really. It is a small percentage. But I am not going to argue, since you will just drag it on and on claiming your opinion and only your opinion is correct. *roll* You really like minutia. You should be an accountant.

[preservanation]

Sheehan was arrested at the hearing.
Ann, do you concede the protesters are from the left now?

Dem staffers must have invited Code Pink.
How else do they get in there????

Man they went crazy!
Calling the Gen a liar and repeating what Lantos said in his opening statement in ear-splitting shrieks.
ouch..

[AnnEsthesia]

I never said they were not "from the left" I stated that they do not represent the left. I can be a mother and say or do something and not represent all mothers...

[preservanation]

A bunch of wackos are in the wings waiting to disrupt the hearing.
I wonder what party they are affiliated with.
Hmmm....?[hr]Man, I hope the dems take this as serious as I do.
A circus is not what we need right now.
No, not "whatever". You are making claims that are blatantly false.

That's what I said.
They are from the left.
Or not really, I just implied it.
Whatever.

[nevadamedic]

Sheehan was arrested at the hearing.
Ann, do you concede the protesters are from the left now?

Dem staffers must have invited Code Pink.
How else do they get in there????

Man they went crazy!
Calling the Gen a liar and repeating what Lantos said in his opening statement in ear-splitting shrieks.
ouch..


The Democratic Chairman was the one who told the cops to arrest her and said she would be prosecuted.:clapper:

[Stoner]

Whole lot of posturing going on out there now.
I hope some will listen and not just stick to their preconceived brick-wall-mind -sets.


Of course the libs will. Hell, they already started weeks ago. Remember when they spread the lie of, "Patraeus isn't writing the report!" Then you get past the lib-bullshit and see he was never supposed to write it anyways. Congress asked the White House to write the report. The White House is including Patreaus' oppinions and assessments. But saying, "the White House is writing it" sounds more like a conspiracy theory so they ran with it.

Same thing when the libs heard the report would show progress with the surge. The libs jumped all over Patreaus calling him a traitor and such. All that because his professional assessment didn't jive with the "surrender and retreat" motto the libs believe in.

[lily]

not even a whole large group. Perhaps a very vocal minority, but hardly most. Most of the 'left' are not in line with them.


Now AnneE, I never said MOST, that is your word. I said that MoveOn.org represents a large group.

http://www.moveon.org/about.html

They claim a membership of 3.3 million. That is a large group.


Christ almighty..........is there going to be more of these threads?

Yes, Boogy........it is a large group......now while all of you would like to link all liberals to moveon..........why don't you start a poll here and see how many of us posting actually belong to moveon, before lumping everyone into one group or are we going to have more threads moved into fools because of silly name calling and accusations?

[ViolaLee]

I belong to moveon.org and I want to join Code Pink too.

So there.

:D

[BoogyMan]

not even a whole large group. Perhaps a very vocal minority, but hardly most. Most of the 'left' are not in line with them.


Now AnneE, I never said MOST, that is your word. I said that MoveOn.org represents a large group.

http://www.moveon.org/about.html

They claim a membership of 3.3 million. That is a large group.


Christ almighty..........is there going to be more of these threads?

Yes, Boogy........it is a large group......now while all of you would like to link all liberals to moveon..........why don't you start a poll here and see how many of us posting actually belong to moveon, before lumping everyone into one group or are we going to have more threads moved into fools because of silly name calling and accusations?


MoveOn has a statistically significant portion of the democratic party among its membership of 3.3 million. When looked at in comparison with the 72 million registered democrats in the country that is something like 4.58 percent. That is not a number that can be dismissed easily. I never claimed most were part of MoveOn, that was an assertion made by AnnE.

I would like you to point out lily, where I claimed all liberals were linked to MoveOn. I take it you will be viewing the constant neocon this and neocon that postings with the same newly critical eye now?

[lily]

I would like you to point out lily, where I claimed all liberals were linked to MoveOn.


One more time. Try reading:

now while all of you would like to link all liberals to moveon

I take it you will be viewing the constant neocon this and neocon that postings with the same newly critical eye now?

Thanks for stressing my point........I have never used the word neocon in my life.........nice lumping.

[BoogyMan]

I would like you to point out lily, where I claimed all liberals were linked to MoveOn.

One more time. Try reading:

now while all of you would like to link all liberals to moveon

Yes Ma'am. LOL

Broad brushes lily.


I take it you will be viewing the constant neocon this and neocon that postings with the same newly critical eye now?

Thanks for stressing my point........I have never used the word neocon in my life.........nice lumping.


I wasn't referring to you lily. :D

Now, any discussion of the statistical significance of 3.3 million voters as a powerful lobby within a group the size of the registered democratic party? It is actually a much larger percentage than many national polls use and extrapolate their results to represent the whole of the nation.

They really do have some power.

[lily]

Boogy..........if I really cared about all this petty shit, I'd look up and we could discuss who runs the repbulican party. Don't act like your shit dosn't stinck.

You've had your day. I started a discussion on the Patraeus meeting today. I don't know abut you, but all this talk over moveon is boring.

[BoogyMan]

Discussing the influence of a group within the whole of a party is petty? Wow, just wow.

[AnnEsthesia]

not even a whole large group. Perhaps a very vocal minority, but hardly most. Most of the 'left' are not in line with them.


Now AnneE, I never said MOST, that is your word. I said that MoveOn.org represents a large group.

http://www.moveon.org/about.html

They claim a membership of 3.3 million. That is a large group.


Christ almighty..........is there going to be more of these threads?

Yes, Boogy........it is a large group......now while all of you would like to link all liberals to moveon..........why don't you start a poll here and see how many of us posting actually belong to moveon, before lumping everyone into one group or are we going to have more threads moved into fools because of silly name calling and accusations?


MoveOn has a statistically significant portion of the democratic party among its membership of 3.3 million. When looked at in comparison with the 72 million registered democrats in the country that is something like 4.58 percent. That is not a number that can be dismissed easily. I never claimed most were part of MoveOn, that was an assertion made by AnnE.

I would like you to point out lily, where I claimed all liberals were linked to MoveOn. I take it you will be viewing the constant neocon this and neocon that postings with the same newly critical eye now?


Um... when exactly did I assert that most liberals were members of moveon.org? I do believe I said that moveon.org is NOT representative of liberals and that to say so was just dumb. (And Boogy, not everything people say is about or toward you, though you constantly act like it is. Read this thread and you will see comments suggesting that moveon.org represents liberals in general.)

[BoogyMan]

I think you misunderstand what my comment was about AnnE, I merely pointed out that it was you who used the word most (in a reply to me), not me. That is all, nothing more.

What I wanted to discuss was the statistical significance of the membership of MoveOn which is actually a pretty big organization when you consider it has 3.3 million members.

Just as the NRA with its membership is statistically significant and holds a good bit of sway within the republican party so is MoveOn statistically significant with some power behind it.

[Elrathin]

What I wanted to discuss was the statistical significance of the membership of MoveOn which is actually a pretty big organization when you consider it has 3.3 million members.

Just as the NRA with its membership is statistically significant and holds a good bit of sway within the republican party so is MoveOn statistically significant with some power behind it.


So by you bringing this up, what was your point again? I'm serious, what does Moveon members have to do with accusations that they represent "the left" as a collective that have been made here by some. They don't.

So I'm not sure where you were going with this Boogy. The claim was made that they represent the left, that has been debunked.

[BoogyMan]

I am not making the claim that they have a blanket representation for the left El, what I am getting at is that they do have a certain amount of power and influence.

[Elrathin]

what I am getting at is that they do have a certain amount of power and influence.


Of course they do, just like Pat Robertson and many of the religious right fundies have with Republicans. This is nothing new.

However the claim that Moveon represents the left WAS made and that simply is not true. It was not made by you but nonetheless was made. That was what I have been saying since the start.

If people want to fault Moveon, fine. But they don't represent the left.

[BoogyMan]

what I am getting at is that they do have a certain amount of power and influence.


Of course they do, just like Pat Robertson and many of the religious right fundies have with Republicans. This is nothing new.

However the claim that Moveon represents the left WAS made and that simply is not true. It was not made by you but nonetheless was made. That was what I have been saying since the start.

If people want to fault Moveon, fine. But they don't represent the left.


Then how about taking my commentary for what it is, an attempt to discuss the topic.

I am not responsible for commentary made by anyone other than myself.

I do firmly believe that MoveOn has a hold on many in the leadership of the majority party though.

[AnnEsthesia]

Yep Boogy. NRA has about 4.3 million members and the Republican party has about 55 million registered members. Of course, that is a larger percentage of the group, but I still would not say NRA is representative of the group as a whole.

[Elrathin]

I do firmly believe that MoveOn has a hold on many in the leadership of the majority party though.


LOL that is bordering conspiracy Boogy. You really think Moveon has a HOLD on some of the dem leadership? Influence maybe, but your statement acts as if they control them.

I remember reading some conservatives saying that Moveon is nothing but a bunch of whiny insignificant people. Yet it seems you would make them out to be masterminds. Please say that isn't so.

[AnnEsthesia]

Of course, one could say the right-wing ministers who counsel Bush and other top Republican leaders also 'have a hold' on the Republican leadership...

[BoogyMan]

I do firmly believe that MoveOn has a hold on many in the leadership of the majority party though.


LOL that is bordering conspiracy Boogy. You really think Moveon has a HOLD on some of the dem leadership? Influence maybe, but your statement acts as if they control them.

I remember reading some conservatives saying that Moveon is nothing but a bunch of whiny insignificant people. Yet it seems you would make them out to be masterminds. Please say that isn't so.


Poor choice of wording on my part? Yeah probably so.

Once again, I can only answer for my own commentary El, but would ask you to consider my comment about MoveOn.org's influence over the leadership in light of the commentary below from the 9/8/2007 edition of Politico.


Source: Link (http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0907/5713.html)
“No one wants to call [Petraeus] a liar on national TV,” noted one Democratic senator, who spoke on the condition on anonymity. “The expectation is that the outside groups will do this for us.”

[Elrathin]

Once again, I can only answer for my own commentary El, but would ask you to consider my comment about MoveOn.org's influence over the leadership in light of the commentary below from the 9/8/2007 edition of Politico.


I've read that and a little later on today if I have time I will comment. Today's a busy day but I will address some of those comments made with how I see them if I have time, otherwise might be tomorrow but it will come.

[BoogyMan]

Of course, one could say the right-wing ministers who counsel Bush and other top Republican leaders also 'have a hold' on the Republican leadership...


Yes, you could say that AnnE, finally someone is getting what I am trying to say.

[preservanation]

I belong to moveon.org and I want to join Code Pink too.

So there.

:D
Shocking.
:shock: