FOXnews republican debate

[micfranklin]

There's another one on right now (and it's recent, I checked) and of course the Republicans are duking out. Already it looks pretty good but then I just cut it on, so we'll see how it folds out.

Anyone else watching?

[micfranklin]

Interesting: Brownback just said that family values are seriously important to keep because if you want to start improving education, crime, and all that you've got to start by rebuilding the family. I have to agree.

And as usual, 30 minutes in and Ron Paul has gotten barely any attention:grrrr:

[AnnEsthesia]

So if you allow gay marriage and people are divorcing, you cannot improve education and crime? ok...

[preservanation]

Yooo Kiddinng?
2nd Adm.
Rocks!

[preservanation]

Paul gets all the attention he needs.

[preservanation]

much support.
Paul= Constitutionalist.

[micfranklin]

Oooooh....Paul vs. Brownback brawl right now.

This is gold.

[lily]

I've got the TIVO running. Figure it'll be good to watch later.

[preservanation]

Tan will stick it to 'em!

[preservanation]

1)America will prevail,
2)despite the efforts of the Democrat Party
3)Gulliani is a not need be.
4)Where is NEWT??????

[micfranklin]

McCain just said something I really liked. It was about torture, and he said the reason we shouldn't do that is because it would give the enemy a reason to return the favor on our people if they were ever captured by them.

So even if McCain says a lot of dumb stuff afterwards, he gets respect from me on his views on torture.

[AnnEsthesia]

Yep. I agree with him on the torture.

[preservanation]

McCain is certifiable!
Get the coats!

[AnnEsthesia]

Ah yes, time for more swiftboating... how pleasant.

[preservanation]

Paul is a dark-horse.
Shake 'em up Baby!!!!

[preservanation]

Swift Boat McCain?
Goood luck!

[AnnEsthesia]

You just did pres... and that is what they did in the past. Poor man.

[preservanation]

Paul is getting more time than anyone.
Poor socialists!!

[micfranklin]

Ron Paul just did another knockout hit.

[preservanation]

You just did pres... and that is what they did in the past. Poor man.

Bush whacked him good in 2000
Too bad Gore Lieberman did not capitalize on it
eh?

[AnnEsthesia]

Sorry, I will not rejoice in someone defaming a veteran who was tortured during his service to this country. I found it sick then and still think it is vile politics.

[preservanation]

Ron Paul just did another knockout hit.
Aye Capt"n
Flash in the pan.
But might make us ALL think

[preservanation]

Sorry, I will not rejoice in someone defaming a veteran who was tortured during his service to this country. I found it sick then and still think it is vile politics.

And are you suggesting that I am?

The dems have done much worse.
Willy Horton?

[micfranklin]

Ron Paul just did another knockout hit.
Aye Capt"n
Flash in the pan.
But might make us ALL think


????????

[AnnEsthesia]

What does Willie Horton have to do with Bush and Co defaming and smearing an American veteran and POW?

[preservanation]

What does Willie Horton have to do with Bush and Co defaming and smearing an American veteran and POW?
Politics,

[AnnEsthesia]

Um... Willie Horton was brought up as an example of what someone has done in their political life.

Calling someone crazy because of their service to their country and knowingly and intentionally smearing them is completely different.

[Stoner]

McCain just said something I really liked. It was about torture, and he said the reason we shouldn't do that is because it would give the enemy a reason to return the favor on our people if they were ever captured by them.



Hostile countries will torture us regardless of what we do. So no, by us not torturing does not equal other countries returning the favor.

[preservanation]

Ron Paul just did another knockout hit.
Aye Capt"n
Flash in the pan.
But might make us ALL think


????????
Paul might go down in history as the one who sparked a revolution, but never gets credit.
Maybe.

[preservanation]

Um... Willie Horton was brought up as an example of what someone has done in their political life.

Calling someone crazy because of their service to their country and knowingly and intentionally smearing them is completely different.
You are right.
It is my sole opinion that McCain is crazy as a shiiit house rat>

[micfranklin]

McCain just said something I really liked. It was about torture, and he said the reason we shouldn't do that is because it would give the enemy a reason to return the favor on our people if they were ever captured by them.



Hostile countries will torture us regardless of what we do. So no, by us not torturing does not equal other countries returning the favor.


But we're keeping our dignity (somewhat) by not reducing ourselves to torture others. We're also obeying constitutional law by not torturing also.

BTW I just texted my vote for Ron Paul tonight.

[preservanation]

Giuliani has to go!
Runnewtrun
I will VOTE for any Rep over any Dem.
Hands down.
I am not alone!

[micfranklin]

Well I'll be damned: right now they just said on H&C that Ron Paul was in the lead in the polls at 34%

[Stoner]

But we're keeping our dignity (somewhat) by not reducing ourselves to torture others.

He who has the most dignity in the end is not the winner. It's not a dignity contest. It's war. Sometimes people have information that is vital and will only give up said information through torture.

It's a neccessary evil.

[micfranklin]

But we're keeping our dignity (somewhat) by not reducing ourselves to torture others.

He who has the most dignity in the end is not the winner. It's not a dignity contest. It's war. Sometimes people have information that is vital and will only give up said information through torture.

It's a neccessary evil.


Actually no it's not. Torture is not always that reliable of a tool.

In the end of a war you can rebuild destroyed towns and cities and regrow crops. You can't rebuild your dignity.

[Stoner]

Actually no it's not. Torture is not always that reliable of a tool.



Never said it was. Re-read what I posted.

And how exactly would you know anyways? I know for a fact you've never put on a uniform nor have been put in a situation where your unit needed to extract information from a closed-mouth tango.

So what exactly makes you an expert in the effectiveness of torture tecniques?

[micfranklin]

Actually no it's not. Torture is not always that reliable of a tool.



Never said it was. Re-read what I posted.

And how exactly would you know anyways? I know for a fact you've never put on a uniform nor have been put in a situation where your unit needed to extract information from a closed-mouth tango.

So what exactly makes you an expert in the effectiveness of torture tecniques?


To answer that question as a whole:

1. Torture does not yield reliable information

Well-trained interrogators, within the military, the FBI, and the police have testified that torture does not work, is unreliable and distracting from the hard work of interrogation. Nearly every client at the Center for Victims of Torture, when subjected to torture, confessed to a crime they did not commit, gave up extraneous information, or supplied names of innocent friends or colleagues to their torturers. It is a great source of shame for our clients, who tell us they would have said anything their tormentors wanted them to say in order to get the pain to stop. Such extraneous information distracts, rather than supports, valid investigations.

http://www.cvt.org/main.php/Advocacy/TheCampaigntoStopTorture/WhatCVTknowsaboutTorture

[jafar00]

Well I'll be damned: right now they just said on H&C that Ron Paul was in the lead in the polls at 34%


Gogogo Ron Paul :D

[micfranklin]

And I actually stayed up until midnight to see if he was still in the lead, and go figure, he was.

[micfranklin]

I'll give you three guesses as to what this is a video of, but a lot of us are only gonna need one:



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=herUw6FX4MI

[micfranklin]

I just found out that they're hosting a Republican presidential debate on the 27th in Baltimore....at my school.

[underdawg]

Ron Paul is the only one of those guys that I would vote for. I see those republicans are bringing up that tired "family values" crap again. Seems like every time they mention family values, it really means anti gay and anti choice for a woman.

[lily]

I just found out that they're hosting a Republican presidential debate on the 27th in Baltimore....at my school.


Wow..... that's a pretty big event. You going Mic? Also you didn't answer my question, will you be old enough to vote next year?

[micfranklin]

I just found out that they're hosting a Republican presidential debate on the 27th in Baltimore....at my school.


Wow..... that's a pretty big event. You going Mic? Also you didn't answer my question, will you be old enough to vote next year?


You better believe it, of course I'm going so I can get a firsthand account on everything they say.

Also I'm already old enough to vote, I've been old enough to vote.

[jafar00]

I so want Ron Paul to become president for your sakes. And ours.

[Stoner]

Ron Paul has no shot. He's a crazy, little man. How is this guy not a lib?

[micfranklin]

Ron Paul has no shot. He's a crazy, little man. How is this guy not a lib?


Calm down Hannity, I mean Stoner. He's not a lib because for one he's honest and the only GOP candidate who opposes the bullshit war we're in now.

[ttriber]

Ron Paul has no shot. He's a crazy, little man. How is this guy not a lib?



I agree Stoner a man who wants to get rid of the CIA,FBI,NSA what makes you think he will protect us if we don't have intelligence Agencies?

I don't mind the guy because of a friend who is a staunch liberal turning into a republican because of Ron Paul but I still don't like this guys Foreign policy on Iraq and other Nations. I don't mind him running on Religion or family values but this guy as our president who are you kidding? I doubt he will win the Republican Nomination as long as their is hardline republican voting in the primaries.

[micfranklin]

I agree Stoner a man who wants to get rid of the CIA,FBI,NSA what makes you think he will protect us if we don't have intelligence Agencies?

Well to be fair not much they've done has made us any more or less safe in the last few years, and they've been behind some pretty terrible things themselves.

[jafar00]

Ron Paul has no shot. He's a crazy, little man. How is this guy not a lib?



I agree Stoner a man who wants to get rid of the CIA,FBI,NSA what makes you think he will protect us if we don't have intelligence Agencies?


For a start, he wants to get rid of the insane foreign policy that makes you paranoid enough to think you need these useless money sinkholes in order to feel safe in the world.

[preservanation]

I so want Ron Paul to become president for your sakes. And ours.

Thanks,
just demolished Paul's chances for the entire nation.

[jafar00]

I so want Ron Paul to become president for your sakes. And ours.

Thanks,
just demolished Paul's chances for the entire nation.


Hardly.

He is the only one amongst them with the plan to take away Al Qaeda's reason for existence.

If you take that reason away from them, you have won. Can't you see that?

[preservanation]

I so want Ron Paul to become president for your sakes. And ours.

Thanks,
just demolished Paul's chances for the entire nation.


Hardly.

He is the only one amongst them with the plan to take away Al Qaeda's reason for existence.

If you take that reason away from them, you have won. Can't you see that?
IRAQ???
That is the only reason for AQs existance?
I follow not.[hr]If we leave you alone, you will leave us alone?
That is a risk America shall not take, and wisely.

[Elrathin]

IRAQ???
That is the only reason for AQs existance?
I follow not.[hr]If we leave you alone, you will leave us alone?
That is a risk America shall not take, and wisely.


Iraq is the only country (maybe besides the moutains in Pakistan) where AQ is free to roam and attack.

IMO the only reason AQ is not kicked out of Iraq is because there are Iraqis that beleive we are the enemy. I believe if we leave, the Iraqis will finally stand up and say "no more" to AQ and take care of the problem themselves.

The enemy of my enemy is my friend. And right now to many Iraqis, the U.S. is the enemy and AQ is fighting the enemy. Best to leave and let the Iraqis take care of the problem themselves.

[preservanation]

IRAQ???
That is the only reason for AQs existance?
I follow not.[hr]If we leave you alone, you will leave us alone?
That is a risk America shall not take, and wisely.


Iraq is the only country (maybe besides the moutains in Pakistan) where AQ is free to roam and attack.

IMO the only reason AQ is not kicked out of Iraq is because there are Iraqis that beleive we are the enemy. I believe if we leave, the Iraqis will finally stand up and say "no more" to AQ and take care of the problem themselves.

The enemy of my enemy is my friend. And right now to many Iraqis, the U.S. is the enemy and AQ is fighting the enemy. Best to leave and let the Iraqis take care of the problem themselves.
Until Imonajihad in Iran overruns the nation, slaughters millions and take over the strategic area and its' oil fields.
Forget about how we got there, is that the end result you desire?
A very harsh and short sighted view just to disgrace our sitting president Bush.
Your partisanship should not eclipse your sense of reason.

[Elrathin]

Until Imonajihad in Iran overruns the nation, slaughters millions and take over the strategic area and its' oil fields.
Forget about how we got there, is that the end result you desire?

That is not the end I want, but that is not what I think will happen. That is the difference. You are acting on what you think, because you see a different conclusion that I do.


A very harsh and short sighted view just to disgrace our sitting president Bush.
Your partisanship should not eclipse your sense of reason.


It has nothing to do with partisanship. I've stated numerous times I would have NO problem whatsover congratulating the president if I thought it would work. I just don't think it will given the situation.

I am retired Army, I do not enjoy seeing any member of the military killed in a war that I see very little gains coming from in this case.

My decision is based on a conclusion that I see that differs from yours. No partisanship there at all on my part.

I do not want us to pull out because it will hurt Bush, I want us to pull out because I think it is the right thing to do. You may disagree with that, and that is fine, but there is no partisanship in my decision process.

[preservanation]

Thank you Elrathin for your service , and your clarification.
May God continue to bless our men and women in our Military and this great nation!

[micfranklin]

IRAQ???
That is the only reason for AQs existance?
I follow not.[hr]If we leave you alone, you will leave us alone?
That is a risk America shall not take, and wisely.


Iraq is the only country (maybe besides the moutains in Pakistan) where AQ is free to roam and attack.

IMO the only reason AQ is not kicked out of Iraq is because there are Iraqis that beleive we are the enemy. I believe if we leave, the Iraqis will finally stand up and say "no more" to AQ and take care of the problem themselves.

The enemy of my enemy is my friend. And right now to many Iraqis, the U.S. is the enemy and AQ is fighting the enemy. Best to leave and let the Iraqis take care of the problem themselves.


You're right, Iraqi people will get up and take the fight to the real enemy. I mean we, as a nation, can't hold their hand forever, let them grow their wings and solve it for themselves.

[lily]

[quote=Elrathin]


IMO the only reason AQ is not kicked out of Iraq is because there are Iraqis that beleive we are the enemy. I believe if we leave, the Iraqis will finally stand up and say "no more" to AQ and take care of the problem themselves.

This is what happened in Anbar. The tribal leaders finally said no more and the Sunnis finally worked together to get AQ out.

Until they are ready to say they've had enough, nothing will get done.

[jafar00]

I so want Ron Paul to become president for your sakes. And ours.

Thanks,
just demolished Paul's chances for the entire nation.


Hardly.

He is the only one amongst them with the plan to take away Al Qaeda's reason for existence.

If you take that reason away from them, you have won. Can't you see that?
IRAQ???
That is the only reason for AQs existance?
I follow not.[hr]If we leave you alone, you will leave us alone?
That is a risk America shall not take, and wisely.


I mean, Ron Paul wants to change the disastrous foreign policy that got you into this mess in the first place. Your current foreign policy is the reason Al Qaeda is doing what they do. If you fix the policy, you no longer give Al Qaeda any legitimacy to continue existing.

ie.. You'd win.[hr]
Until Imonajihad in Iran overruns the nation, slaughters millions and take over the strategic area and its' oil fields.
Forget about how we got there, is that the end result you desire?
A very harsh and short sighted view just to disgrace our sitting president Bush.
Your partisanship should not eclipse your sense of reason.


I assume you meant Ahmedinejad? Since when has he threatened to invade Iraq? Or is this more paranoia along the lines of the non-existent nuke program nonsense you are trying to pull again with Iran?