Islam Religion recieves special treatment yet again from newspapers

[ttriber]

At least 25 of the 200 or so "Opus" client newspapers might not run the Sunday-only comic's next two episodes, which feature Islamic references and a sex joke.

That's according to Washington Post Writers Group Executive Sales Manager Karisue Wyson, when contacted today by E&P. WPWG Editorial Director/General Manager Alan Shearer added that more than 25 clients might not use the strips because the syndicate hasn't heard from about 150 of the 200 papers it alerted.

"Whenever something lands close to the edge, we give editors enough notice" in case they want to run substitute comics, said Shearer.

Berkeley Breathed's Aug. 26 and Sept. 2 strips -- which comprise sort of a two-part series -- show the Lola Granola character wanting to become an Islamic radicalist (and wear traditional Muslim clothing) because it's a "hot new fad on the planet." Content also includes what Shearer described as "a sex joke a little stronger than we normally see."

Wyson said some client papers hesitated to run a sex joke and others won't publish any Muslim-related humor, whether pro or con. "They just don't want to touch that," she said.

Hypocrisy or what? They don't want to touch Islam because of the extremist but they go ahead and publish making fun of Christianity and Catholicism but Islam boy don't touch that. Islam the religion of Allah that preaches hate and death.

[NortheastCynic]

I will say this. Somone needs to send a memo to the Islamic community telling them to get over themselves. In general, no group takes itself more seriously than that one. I understand that all religious groups take themselves too seriously, but Islam takes it to a new level. I don't mean to offend Muslims on this board but anyone with functioning eyes can see the effects of what I am saying.

-NC

[ttriber]

I am glad a Libertarian like yourself sees it my way.

[AnnEsthesia]

You mean unlike Christians who can deal with a tree being removed from an airport without falling into spasms about their holiday being ruined? ;)

[Truth_and_Power]

You mean unlike Christians who can deal with a tree being removed from an airport without falling into spasms about their holiday being ruined? ;)


Cmon you know it's not on the same level.

[exigent]

yeah ann, but in this case 'heads will roll' isnt only a metaphor...

[Truth_and_Power]

Try to remove an islamic symbol from the iranian airport, or suggest that it share space with jewish and christian symbols as a compromise. I think you'd get more than a few newspaper articles and a city council meeting.

They probably have special planes so they can land on crescent moon shaped runways!

[AnnEsthesia]

I am sorry, I thought we were discussing here in American. If we had invaded Italy and we were currently killing Italians, I would also expect that we would be sensitive enough not to make fun of them or their religion while we were in the midst of a controversial war.

[Truth_and_Power]

I am sorry, I thought we were discussing here in American. If we had invaded Italy and we were currently killing Italians, I would also expect that we would be sensitive enough not to make fun of them or their religion while we were in the midst of a controversial war.


There is no "we", it's just berkley breathed doing his usual thing, making fun of anything that moves.

[Buck Laser]

I am sorry, I thought we were discussing here in American. If we had invaded Italy and we were currently killing Italians, I would also expect that we would be sensitive enough not to make fun of them or their religion while we were in the midst of a controversial war.


There is no "we", it's just berkley breathed doing his usual thing, making fun of anything that moves.

Yeah, and I'm SO glad he does. For every Islamist he pisses off, he annoys about a thousand publicans.

[AnnEsthesia]

And if "we" publish it, then "we" are condoning it. But wait, since people have no issue with their religion being mocked, why did we have such a problem with chocolate jesus and piss christ?

[ttriber]

The problem with your assumption Ann is that Christians go to Court for it and what do Muslims do? Go to War and call it Jihad and hell has broken loose. Suicide Bombers are used to kill people my friend. The Best Weapon a Christian has is a Bible just so you know that.

[AnnEsthesia]

Er... when has a Muslim in this country beheaded anyone for an insult? They too go to court and use the system them have to fight against bigotry. There *is* no court in the Middle East. They use what they have, dear. It is wrong and it is brutal, but in the end, it is what they have. And frankly, I do not think launching missiles from miles away is any less brutal. The only difference is that you get a larger kill number more quickly and you do not have to wash the blood off your hands, therefore you can still tell yourself how much more civilized you are.

[Truth_and_Power]

And if "we" publish it, then "we" are condoning it. But wait, since people have no issue with their religion being mocked, why did we have such a problem with chocolate jesus and piss christ?


Actually that's not how it works in america. People publish what they see fit, and read what they want to. If this newspaper were controlled by the government and there was no freedom of the press, you might say that. I suppose you could make the argument that the circulation #'s are people condoning it, but people read things they disagree with or find scandalous all the time, for example chess' posts.

[NortheastCynic]

You mean unlike Christians who can deal with a tree being removed from an airport without falling into spasms about their holiday being ruined?
I understand that all religious groups take themselves too seriously, but Islam takes it to a new level.
I have not heard of any Christians destroying half of a city because someone removed Christmas tree. The degree to which the Islamic community puts itself on an immaculate pedastle is unmatched.

-NC

[AnnEsthesia]

Actually, that is how it works in the world. When you are trying to promote an image that you are not invading countries and fighting your own wars in your own jihad, you do your best not to show cultural insensitivity to the people you have attacked. I am sorry if you disagree, but that is how the world works. If Russia attacked Great Britain and claimed they were there as friends to help, then the papers in Russia ran a cartoon mocking the Church of England and making fun of the English, it would do nothing but support the image that they were blowing wind with regards to their reasons for attacking.

And no, I do not support attacking or mocking anyone's religion. I think it is in bad taste and not a bit funny.[hr]
You mean unlike Christians who can deal with a tree being removed from an airport without falling into spasms about their holiday being ruined?
I understand that all religious groups take themselves too seriously, but Islam takes it to a new level.
I have not heard of any Christians destroying half of a city because someone removed Christmas tree. The degree to which the Islamic community puts itself on an immaculate pedastle is unmatched.

-NC


It is a *cultural* thing. That is why cultural sensitivity is important. No, Christians just use what they have at their disposal. They refuse to shop at walmart, they pressure sponsors, etc etc.

I would say Christians take themselves too seriously too.

And I applaud the papers for not running the cartoon. We are at war. We are trying to sooth the feelings of abuse and unfair treatment. It is appropriate for us not to fan the flames.

[NortheastCynic]

Your first paragraph only makes sense if the people attacking the country are the same individuals mocking the religion. That is not the case and that line of logic is therefore fallacious. The Washington Post has not started a war against a single Muslim nation, our government has. I would like to think the Islamic community can distinguish between the act of our government and the act of a newspaper.

I have no problem with mocking religious organizations. In fact, mocking for everyone. Everyone deserves some mocking now and then. Please, if I begin to take myself to seriously, mock me. Every single person and group on this Earth needs to stop taking themselves and everything else so god damned seriously, the Islamic community included.

I would say that Christians take themselves to seriously
Not only would I say that...I HAVE said that. Of course they do, most people do for God's sake. But to put a boycott of Walmart in the same universe as rioting and destroying property over a cartoon is absurd.

-NC

[AnnEsthesia]

And yet, NE, do you think the Muslim sitting in his bombed out house who hears that their was a cartoon mocking his religion in American newspapers will sit back and say: "Oh yes, that only represents the artist and in no way represents Americans as a whole."

If a French newspaper ran a cartoon mocking and making vile statements about American GI's, would Americans (who have a better education and understanding of the world than most Iraqis), sit back and say, "Ah, that is just the cartoonist..." Or would it suddenly be, "Fuck the French, those assholes!" ??[hr]
Not only would I say that...I HAVE said that. Of course they do, most people do for God's sake. But to put a boycott of Walmart in the same universe as rioting and destroying property over a cartoon is absurd.

-NC


It is not absurd when you actually take into consideration the culture and the poverty and lack of education in the countries you are talking about. When you have no power otherwise, you use what you have to protest and express your anger. Look at the riots we have here. You do not see people smiling and taking their extreme anger to court, you see them riot in protest. Same thing but exaggerated by situation over there.

[Alonzo]

This is for those who say christians don't do this:

JAKARTA, Indonesia (CWN) - Hundreds of Christians rioted in a rural Indonesian town on Monday following a rumored insult of a picture of Jesus Christ, according to police reports on Wednesday.

A police spokesman said the riots began after a Muslim living in a rented house said he didn't like a picture of Jesus Christ hanging there. When the report of the insult spread, hundreds of Christians began attacking Muslims with stones and knives.


http://www.cwnews.com/news/viewstory.cfm?recnum=4556

Christian mobs torched cars, blockaded roads and looted Muslim-owned shops in violence touched off by Friday's executions of three Roman Catholics convicted of instigating attacks on Muslims.
.....
And on the island of Flores, the executed men's birthplace, machete-wielding mobs ran through the streets Friday, sending women and children running in panic, police and witnesses said.


http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory?id=2477170

[NortheastCynic]

And yet, NE, do you think the Muslim sitting in his bombed out house who hears that their was a cartoon mocking his religion in American newspapers will sit back and say: "Oh yes, that only represents the artist and in no way represents Americans as a whole."No, but that is because he is woefully ignorant. I do not think we should alter how we live based on what woefully ignorant and violent people might think of some of the actions we take.

If a French newspaper ran a cartoon mocking and making vile statements about American GI's, would Americans (who have a better education and understanding of the world than most Iraqis), sit back and say, "Ah, that is just the cartoonist..." Or would it suddenly be, "f_ck the French, those assholes!" ??He would do the latter, but this, again is irrelevant. Simply because Americans might be just as, well stupid, is absolutely no justfication for the stupidity. In related news, if that french cartoon mocked or made vile statements about GIs, I can tell you what they wouldn't do. Set fire to the surrounding city.

-NC

[AnnEsthesia]

Again, you are picking and choosing what you will accept and what you will trash. You want to treat everything as equals as if there are no extenuating circumstances. Culture is a huge factor. So is living conditions.

Place a man in a position to be rich and powerful, living in a nation of laws with the ability to fight for his cause through the system and he will do so. Place the same man into a situation where he is poor and uneducated and where he lives in a nation that has no laws or where the laws make him feel powerless and he will use what he has at his disposal.

Or do you figure that you, in a position of powerlessness, helplessness and intense anger would just lay down and take whatever came your way?

Considering the people on this forum who are arming themselves to the hilt so that they can "defend themselves with every means necessary" with regards to a perceived threat, why would you state that someone living in much more horrid and violent conditions should do no less?

[ViolaLee]

You mean unlike Christians who can deal with a tree being removed from an airport without falling into spasms about their holiday being ruined?
I understand that all religious groups take themselves too seriously, but Islam takes it to a new level.
I have not heard of any Christians destroying half of a city because someone removed Christmas tree. The degree to which the Islamic community puts itself on an immaculate pedastle is unmatched.

-NC


Looks like you are mistaken.


This is for those who say christians don't do this:

JAKARTA, Indonesia (CWN) - Hundreds of Christians rioted in a rural Indonesian town on Monday following a rumored insult of a picture of Jesus Christ, according to police reports on Wednesday.

A police spokesman said the riots began after a Muslim living in a rented house said he didn't like a picture of Jesus Christ hanging there. When the report of the insult spread, hundreds of Christians began attacking Muslims with stones and knives.


http://www.cwnews.com/news/viewstory.cfm?recnum=4556

Christian mobs torched cars, blockaded roads and looted Muslim-owned shops in violence touched off by Friday's executions of three Roman Catholics convicted of instigating attacks on Muslims.
.....
And on the island of Flores, the executed men's birthplace, machete-wielding mobs ran through the streets Friday, sending women and children running in panic, police and witnesses said.


http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory?id=2477170


I wish religion would become extinct. There would be a lot less war.

[NortheastCynic]

Viola, I was careful with my words. Anne brought up the example of Christian outrage over a removal of a X-mas tree, etc. My point was that such an example is ridiculous as it does not compare to the damage some Muslims have done elsewhere [using rioting as an example]. I have not denied that Christians often become violent for equally stupid reasons.

-NC

[AnnEsthesia]

And if you look at European football, they riot and destroy property, people even are killed, all because of a sports game. Your point is? As I said, it is cultural, not the religion, that causes the rioting and the chaos.

[Truth_and_Power]

Yep the old bloom county is as good as it gets for my money. As far as I'm concerned, let 'em all have it! Humor is the best medicine, and just like children they will kick and scream when you give it to them.

[NortheastCynic]

Anne, what do football hooligans in England have to do regarding this issue? I don't get it. Of course it's a cultural thing, if it were a religious thing NO OTHER RELIGION WOULD DO IT. Which is clearly not the case. My point is that that cultural trait is dominant within the Islamic community, that's all.

-NC

[AnnEsthesia]

My point is that we have to be culturally sensitive while we are currently embroiled in a war that is seen as aggression to those whose country we currently inhabit. We are trying to win over people's hearts and minds and that will not happen if we just refuse to see things from their perspective.

My point is that there are people everywhere who riot and cause problems. It is not an Islamic phenomenon. It is a HUMAN phenomenon.

[NortheastCynic]

Again with the 'we'. We're talking about a newspaper running a cartoon, Anne. That's it. Not our government, a newspaper. If there are some in the Islamic world without the brain power to differentiate between those two entities, that is their problem, not the Washington Post's. Again, we should not alter our actions due to our fear of what a stupid person may do as a result of them.

In addition, I am not claiming that rioting is any kind of 'Islamic phenomenon', only that the community 'takes it self too seriously', the riots are only manifestations of that attitude.

-NC

[AnnEsthesia]

And I disagree. If you want to win the hearts and minds of the people you are fighting, then gee, you need to look at it from their perspective. You have to work with the people you are dealing with, NEC, not the people you want to be dealing with.

This is exactly the mentality that Bush has been employing. Who needs to understand the culture? We will just democratize them and all will be well.

[lawless168]

quote]

Hypocrisy or what? They don't want to touch Islam because of the extremist but they go ahead and publish making fun of Christianity and Catholicism but Islam boy don't touch that. Islam the religion of Allah that preaches hate and death.


Its the in thing to do. Bash the christians!

[NortheastCynic]

Oy vey, Anne. Can we please settle on a pronoun and stick to it, please? You are lumping me, the Washington Post and the administration into one group, 'we' and going on about how if 'we' are fighting a group of people, 'we' need to be senstive to their views and that 'we' choose not to understand their culture.

Hi, I'm NortheastCynic, I am neither the Washington Post nor a member of the Bush Administration. I am not fighting a single Muslim individual, nor is the Washington Post. What I am saying is very, very simple. The Washington Post is a private entity, completely independent from the government. It pulled a cartoon because it may 'offend Muslims'. I am saying that while the cartoon very may well have offended some Muslims [as they, like most religious groups/communities take themselves entirely too seriously], the Washington Post should not allow the potential actions of stupid individuals [i.e. people who would react violently to a cartoon and/or be moronic enough to associate the Post with the government] to dicatate its own actions.

The Washington Post isn't trying to win the hearts and minds...The government and armed forces are. They are two different things.

There is no 'we'.

-NC

[AnnEsthesia]

Yes there is. There is the United States of America. We are all part of it. Do you honestly expect someone who comes from a country where everything is state run to take the time to understand the nuances of our society?

Give me a break. *I* would like for the muslims to understand that we are not trying to convert them to our way of life and that we are honestly trying to better their lives. I bet they have yet to see that, what with living under constant fear of death and in a decaying country where anyone with any means has already fled.

[NortheastCynic]

Yes there is. There is the United States of America. We are all part of it. Do you honestly expect someone who comes from a country where everything is state run to take the time to understand the nuances of our society?I think we're going to have to agree to disagree because I do not buy into the collectivist theory that the United States is one functioning entity through which all things within it are connected. That is our fundamental disagreement on this issue, or so it seems.

-NC

[AnnEsthesia]

And I never said that we were. However, we are currently embroiled in a mess of our own making in which, if we have any desire to get out of it in any way shape or form a positive way, we have to win over the people of the region. In order to do so, we have to, as a society, take a long view and realize that our actions can hurt or hinder our efforts in that region. If we don't care and we don't want to take responsibility for helping or hurting our efforts in the ME, then go for it, publish as many inflammatory items as you can. Or, we can realize that in order to win them over, we have to have a little discretion and show some restraint when we know it will only make matters worse.

I applaud the newspapers for having restraint and seeing that they could cause more problems by publishing that cartoon.

[jafar00]

Some of the complete ignorance about Islam in this thread astounds me.


"Islam the religion of Allah that preaches hate and death."

Prove it!


"The problem with your assumption Ann is that Christians go to Court for it and what do Muslims do? Go to War and call it Jihad and hell has broken loose.


Such as when?


Suicide Bombers are used to kill people my friend.


Indeed they are, but what have suicide bombers got to do with Islam? Show me some Islamic teachings that condone suicide bombings.


The Best Weapon a Christian has is a Bible just so you know that."


Tell the "Christian" soldier in the Humvee in Iraq to swap his 50cal machine gun for a Bible and see what reaction you get.


There *is* no court in the Middle East. They use what they have, dear.

Actually, most Middle East countries have courts. Some of them are even quite civilised. :dork: Are you perhaps referring just to the ones that have been bombed back to the stoneage and their court systems totally dismantled?


The degree to which the Islamic community puts itself on an immaculate pedastle is unmatched.


Sorry? Who put Muslims on the pedestal by the constant media (And let's not forget, armed) attacks?

[NortheastCynic]

Ah, so it's simply the media giving off the perception that Muslims [again, as a whole] take themselves too seriously. In reality the Islamic religion is the only one that does not take itself too seriously. That's a theory. I don't buy it, but it's a theory, it cannot be proven nor disproven. That being said, not buying it is not a sign of ignorance, only of disagreement.

-NC

[AnnEsthesia]

There *is* no court in the Middle East. They use what they have, dear.

Actually, most Middle East countries have courts. Some of them are even quite civilised. :dork: Are you perhaps referring just to the ones that have been bombed back to the stoneage and their court systems totally dismantled?



Correct.

[PatrickHenry]

At least 25 of the 200 or so "Opus" client newspapers might not run the Sunday-only comic's next two episodes, which feature Islamic references and a sex joke.


Hypocrisy or what? They don't want to touch Islam because of the extremist but they go ahead and publish making fun of Christianity and Catholicism but Islam boy don't touch that. Islam the religion of Allah that preaches hate and death.
I will say this, ttriber. Don't ever quote without attribution.
I'm serious. Otherwise, I have to look up whom you are quoting to make sure it isn't a lie.
Here's the link.
http://www.mediainfo.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1003631122

On topic: more than 25 clients might not use the strips because the syndicate hasn't heard from about 150 of the 200 papers it alerted.

"Whenever something lands close to the edge, we give editors enough notice" in case they want to run substitute comics, said Shearer.Doesn't say they "will not use." And it's an individual decision by each publisher, so get over it. Do you like heavy, top-down management of editorial content? Like Castro does, bubba? Didn't think so...

I also note that it may be the sex joke that the papers want to avoid. understandable since each paper knows its reader base better than the guys at the office in NYC. Content also includes what Shearer described as "a sex joke a little stronger than we normally see."

Wyson said some client papers hesitated to run a sex joke and others won't publish any Muslim-related humor, whether pro or con. "They just don't want to touch that," she said.

[AnnEsthesia]

Ah, so it's simply the media giving off the perception that Muslims [again, as a whole] take themselves too seriously. In reality the Islamic religion is the only one that does not take itself too seriously. That's a theory. I don't buy it, but it's a theory, it cannot be proven nor disproven. That being said, not buying it is not a sign of ignorance, only of disagreement.

-NC


Not sure who you are talking to, but if you mean me, then no, you are wrong. It is the media giving off the perception that they understand publishing the cartoon will have a negative impact on what we are trying to do in Iraq and Afghanistan. It is the media showing that they are able to see past their noses and understand that some things are just not necessary, especially when they HURT us.

[ViolaLee]

I think we're going to have to agree to disagree because I do not buy into the collectivist theory that the United States is one functioning entity through which all things within it are connected. That is our fundamental disagreement on this issue, or so it seems.

-NC
That's a fundamental disagreement I'll have with Libertarians, always. With Bush as our president our name is Mudd in the world. That's one way we are all connected. When a Dem wins in 2008, our world approval rating will rise, no doubt. We are all connected. If we had actually won hearts and minds in Iraq and they had electricity, jobs and clean water by now, the world would see us as great. We are all connected. Bush's terrible job has put us in more danger than we were before he started his war of choice. We are all connected and collectively in danger because of Bush's actions.

[Josepha]

Ah, so it's simply the media giving off the perception that Muslims [again, as a whole] take themselves too seriously. In reality the Islamic religion is the only one that does not take itself too seriously. That's a theory. I don't buy it, but it's a theory, it cannot be proven nor disproven. That being said, not buying it is not a sign of ignorance, only of disagreement.

-NC



Well, I don't think it unusual for the media to have a easily digested simplistic view of any religious or ethnic group. We all know Christians are all right wing loonies, all Jews support Israel with big bucks, and Muslims like to blow things up. Can't wait to see what burgeoning Buddhist, hindu, Pagan and Sikh communities as stereotyped as.

Of course, mexicans are poor and probably illegal, blacks belong to gangs in ghettoes, and Italians tend to favor organized crime. TV and news papers are about drama and ratings - not about truth and nuance.