Atheism is stupid

[moses2792796]

Atheism: "I cannot see God, therefore he doesn't exist"

Agnostic: "I cannot see God, therefore there is no reason to assume he exists"

Exoteric Religious: "I cannot see God, therefore he exists"

Esoteric Religious: "I cannot see God, but I can see his creation, I have faith in the reality of this creation, therefore I already have all the necessary evidence of his existence"

The only faith necessary is faith that the world exists outside of the self. If you believe that the world is real, you already believe in God.

[Jaaaman]

"There are no atheists in foxholes." Author unknown.

[NortheastCynic]

I am not an atheist nor am I agnostic, but there is significantly more to their arguments than what you have stated.

-NC

[ViolaLee]

Or maybe religion is stupid.

Clarence Darrow:
I do not believe in God because I do not believe in Mother Goose.

Clarence Darrow:
I do not consider it an insult, but rather a compliment to be called an agnostic. I do not pretend to know where many ignorant men are sure -- that is all that agnosticism means.

Francis Bacon:
Atheism leaves a man to sense, to philosophy, to natural piety, to laws, to reputation; all of which may be guides to an outward moral virtue, even if religion vanished; but religious superstition dismounts all these and erects an absolute monarchy in the minds of men.

Protagoras:
As to the gods, I have no means of knowing either that they exist or do not exist.

Thomas Jefferson:
Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear.

Wendy Kaminer:
I don't spend much time thinking about whether God exists. I don't consider that a relevant question. It's unanswerable and irrelevant to my life, so I put it in the category of things I can't worry about.

[Buck Laser]

I am not an atheist nor am I agnostic, but there is significantly more to their arguments than what you have stated.

-NC

You're absolutely correct, NC. Atheism and agnosticism are difficult and demanding positions to take. But when one has encountered too much evil in the world, it is tempting to deny God or to deny knowledge of him. I have a great deal more respect for the atheist or the agnostic who's arrived at his/her position honestly than I do for the people for whom religion is just too easy, too pat.

And the "no atheists in foxholes" business is really nothing more than a smarmy slogan.

I've dealt with the darkness of doubt and unknowing in one way or another for most of my life. It isn't easy, but I would choose no other life. Atheism is NOT stupid, though Lord knows there are a few stupid atheists--and some obnoxious ones, too.

I'm an agnostic Christian, and I prefer the uncertainty it brings me than the easy, pat answers some less doubting Christians throw around. I can speak with a bit of authority about facing death here, because in the last ten years, I've quadruple bypass surgery, two heart attacks, leukemia, diabetes, and an upset stomach. :lmao: Thirty years ago, when I had cancer of the colon, I chased the friggin' chaplain out of my room.

It's not that I don't want people of faith around when I'm ill--I just don't want the god damned Amway salesmen of faith.

[Lazarus]

God is not the answer to all of lifes' mysteries.
But God is the answer for all of lifes' miseries.

Ponder upon that.

[NortheastCynic]

My view on religion is similar to yours, Buck. I don't have a problem with religion, but ORGANIZED religion, in my view is where things get ugly. I believe in God, Jesus Christ and the Virgin Mary, beyond that, I haven't a clue. I just attempt to live a moral life and make good decisions.

-NC

[moses2792796]

Or maybe religion is stupid.

Clarence Darrow:
I do not believe in God because I do not believe in Mother Goose.

Clarence Darrow:
I do not consider it an insult, but rather a compliment to be called an agnostic. I do not pretend to know where many ignorant men are sure -- that is all that agnosticism means.

Francis Bacon:
Atheism leaves a man to sense, to philosophy, to natural piety, to laws, to reputation; all of which may be guides to an outward moral virtue, even if religion vanished; but religious superstition dismounts all these and erects an absolute monarchy in the minds of men.

Protagoras:
As to the gods, I have no means of knowing either that they exist or do not exist.

Thomas Jefferson:
Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear.

Wendy Kaminer:
I don't spend much time thinking about whether God exists. I don't consider that a relevant question. It's unanswerable and irrelevant to my life, so I put it in the category of things I can't worry about.


You're only attacking the reasoning behind religion, this is irrelavant to someone who understands its deeper meaning.

[Drocket]

I spent a long, long time debating with myself about whether God exists. The ultimate answer that I came up with, the only one that I can live with, was: I don't care. That is, I'm not going to live my life any differently whether God exists or not.

I do the things I do because I believe they're the right things to do. If you really need a vague threat of punishment after you die to behave in a decent manner, then something is seriously wrong with you. As for the whole "only way to be saved is through Jesus Christ's blood" (or whatever variation you prefer for a given religion) - if God's big plan for the world is to be mysterious and drop vague clues here and there about how to save your soul, as though life is nothing more than one big scavenger hunt, then (to be perfectly blunt) fuck him. I have better things to do with my time than play guessing games with an omnipotent prankster. If God actually does exist, and he actually is a loving God, he'll understand. And if he's not, then he's not deserving of my worship.

[moses2792796]

I am not an atheist nor am I agnostic, but there is significantly more to their arguments than what you have stated.

-NC


They can find all sorts of proofs and arguments none of which have any value. I stated the core reasoning behind atheism. Agnosticism I do not have a problem with, but it is something that implies little will to overcome the individual.

[Drocket]

I stated the core reasoning behind atheism. Agnosticism I do not have a problem with, but it is something that implies little will to overcome the individual.

The problem with your reasoning here is that if you think disbelieving something because there's no proof it exists is a bad idea, then you MUST believe in everything that otherwise can't be disproven.

Do you believe in Zeus? If not, can you prove he doesn't exist? By your own logic, you either have to be able to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Zeus doesn't exist, or else believe in Zeus.

[moses2792796]

Not at all, I think perhaps you don't understand the concept of God.

[AnnEsthesia]

Ah, I love threads where someone stands on top of the hill and states that anyone who does not agree does not understand as he does.

I agree with a former poster who said that it is not religion that is the problem, but organized religion. Organized religions were, more often than not, created as a political and economic means of controlling people. They were a way to gain power. Nothing more, nothing less.

[preservanation]

Ah, I love threads where someone stands on top of the hill and states that anyone who does not agree does not understand as he does.

I agree with a former poster who said that it is not religion that is the problem, but organized religion. Organized religions were, more often than not, created as a political and economic means of controlling people. They were a way to gain power. Nothing more, nothing less.
SOCIALIST[hr]If an accurate description is an attack..Guilty

[David Hume]

"There are no atheists in foxholes." Author unknown.


Tell that to Pat Tillman. :blah:[hr]
I spent a long, long time debating with myself about whether God exists. The ultimate answer that I came up with, the only one that I can live with, was: I don't care. That is, I'm not going to live my life any differently whether God exists or not.

I do the things I do because I believe they're the right things to do. If you really need a vague threat of punishment after you die to behave in a decent manner, then something is seriously wrong with you. As for the whole "only way to be saved is through Jesus Christ's blood" (or whatever variation you prefer for a given religion) - if God's big plan for the world is to be mysterious and drop vague clues here and there about how to save your soul, as though life is nothing more than one big scavenger hunt, then (to be perfectly blunt) fuck him. I have better things to do with my time than play guessing games with an omnipotent prankster. If God actually does exist, and he actually is a loving God, he'll understand. And if he's not, then he's not deserving of my worship.



You reached the same conclusion as Mother Theresa http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1655415,00.html and she may become a Catholic saint one day soon. . .

[AnnEsthesia]

Ah, I love threads where someone stands on top of the hill and states that anyone who does not agree does not understand as he does.

I agree with a former poster who said that it is not religion that is the problem, but organized religion. Organized religions were, more often than not, created as a political and economic means of controlling people. They were a way to gain power. Nothing more, nothing less.
SOCIALIST[hr]If an accurate description is an attack..Guilty


Nice. You have no clue my beliefs, yet you call me a socialist? Amusing.

[preservanation]

Ann, Do you want Universal Health Care?

[David Hume]

How long til someone starts the "Christianity is stupid" thread?

[AnnEsthesia]

Yes and no. It is too complex an issue to go with a pat answer and no, I do not want health care just handed out to everyone in the way I am sure you are thinking.

[David Hume]

Ann, Do you want Universal Health Care?


Should we also end the Federal Highway Administration, public schools, taxpayer-financed health-care for the old & infirm, your local parks & rec department, and the guys who put salt down on your roads during ice-storms?

All forms of socialism. . .

[preservanation]

SOCIALIST!
love you too...
be back soon,
maybe
I'm out

[AnnEsthesia]

Yea, I am not a socialist, no matter what you believe.

[NortheastCynic]

Preserv, this is getting ridiculous, I happen to believe that organized religion is simply a way of controlling people...and if you confuse me for a socialist, then wow. Socialism and Anne's [and my] view on religion have absolutely nothing to do with each other.

-NC

[AnnEsthesia]

Thank you, NC.

[David Hume]

How long til someone starts the "Christianity is stupid" thread?


Oh, look, someone DID start a "Christianity is stupid" thread!

http://www.democracyforums.com/showthread.php?tid=7298

[moses2792796]

Ah, I love threads where someone stands on top of the hill and states that anyone who does not agree does not understand as he does.


I said that because Drocket made it perfectly clear with his statement that he had no clue as to the nature of God.

[Lazarus]

Ah, I love threads where someone stands on top of the hill and states that anyone who does not agree does not understand as he does.


I said that because Drocket made it perfectly clear with his statement that he had no clue as to the nature of God.


And you do ?

[moses2792796]

Ah, I love threads where someone stands on top of the hill and states that anyone who does not agree does not understand as he does.


I said that because Drocket made it perfectly clear with his statement that he had no clue as to the nature of God.


And you do ?


I don't claim to understand God in his entireity, but I understand his transcendent nature when clearly Drocket does not, otherwise he would not have made such a comment.