Gut Politics

[ClayBarham]

If you divide the thinking process into two parts, the head and the heart or gut, otherwise the objective and subjective, reason and emotion, you find the most active mind is always the one that requires no thinking. We all respond faster and most often by how we feel about something. Now, some will argue and say they bought their house, car or even computer on shear reason. They insist they made well thought out decisions, as they always do on everything. Hogwash! The only time reason comes into play is once a decision is made. Reason justifies decisions made, giving them a logical form everyone can admire, including the one who made the decision. Can you really say that you never had to justify something you did that may offend an ordinary person’s reasoning?

A manufacturer of a household liquid dishwashing product once explained how he made the product. His criteria focused on the emotions and feelings of the buyer. The liquid had to be thick, so he added thickeners. They contributed nothing to the ability of the detergent, in water, to clean. Next, he colored the liquid green to make it appealing, giving it an environmentally approved feeling. Then, he added fragrance to make the liquid smell like a pine tree forest. The bottle had to be clear and the label inviting to the senses. Finally, he had to come up with the ingredients that would actually make the detergent a decent cleaner. The political campaign managers and public relations people are fully aware this needs doing with a candidate for office. He or she must be appealing to the senses and leave reason to the dumb opponent who bores his or her audience with the facts.

Not all emotions run equally to the surface of all people at the same time. Some people have an emotional feeling, an emotional peak at the sight of their nation’s flag, while others emotionally peak in opposition to that flag. It is important in a campaign that the office-seeker knows to whom he or she is supposed to appeal. The taxpayers who feel ripped off and ruined by big social spenders are going to feel for the candidate who identifies with cutting taxes. The voter, who lives in a slum, has little to eat, lacks a nice car and home, when seeing television ads showing people living better, is inclined to feel positive for the candidate who says he or she will take from those who have the goodies and give those goodies to those who have none of them.

Reason may suggest that all voters be concerned about the political system. They should understand how it serves either freedom or tyranny. In a society where freedom is taken for granted, and no marching troops are enforcing a dictator’s edicts, the political system possesses no emotional content.
Look at how the 2007-2008 campaigns are shaping up. Are the candidates on the left appealing to gut or reason? The Democrat candidates appeal to those who feel deprived, left out, denied access to the housing, cars, and social life of the rich and famous. They feel held down, prevented from living the life of Reilly. They emotionally accept the idea they are not at fault for their condition. The economic royalists on the right deny them. The appeal is to get hold of the power of government, turn it against the upper and middle classes who have so much, remove their excesses, and share it with all those who, discriminated against by the “system,” have so little. Listen to what the Democrats are saying. They touch the emotions of each group.

What are the Republicans doing? They appeal to facts. They are treating the voters as if they were reasoning, thoughtful, intellectually interested people. This bores them. This does not attract them at all. What might attract them is an appeal to their fears of losing what they have. They need to point out what people have, not what they can get. The emotional appeal for keeping what one has that he or she treasures is far stronger than getting something they do not have at this time. Then, the Republicans will be working the emotional street and have a better chance of winning at the polls.

Those who have deep feelings for the unique nation in which they live, and for the flag, are open emotionally to appeals of the gut. The Republicans are disunited and unable to share a message of hope for keeping the future of a free and growing America. They have lost the spark once igniting their gut provided by Ronald Reagan and by Abraham Lincoln earlier. The general appeal to the gut aims at those who see themselves as “have-nots.” The Democrats are certain to win the 2008 election if they stay on their present buying and selling by gut, by golly.

[ViolaLee]

You've got it all backwards. The Republicans appeal to the deepest emotion of all:

Fear

Just listen to them tell us that if we elect a Democrat we will be attacked again.

H. P. Lovecraft
The oldest and strongest emotion of mankind is fear, and the oldest and strongest kind of fear is fear of the unknown.

[Marley]

Government-run health care is entirely advocated on a fear basis.

The rational brain knows the US federal government doesn't do anything well and would never turn to it for the service it most absolutely demands.

Socialists use fear tactics to sell government-run health care.

Then, there's the mother of all fear mongerong, "global warming." Full-on bible-thumping type end of the world fear mongering.

[Deadshot]

Government-run health care is entirely advocated on a fear basis.

The rational brain knows the US federal government doesn't do anything well and would never turn to it for the service it most absolutely demands.

Then why do we trust the government to run our wars? If they don't do anything right, aren't you admitting right here, that Bush and co. are FUBARing Iraq?

I hope everyone sees the fallicy of this arguement since we trust the government with our military, our retirement (in the form of Social Security), our School system, our Law Enforcement and myriad of other things.


Socialists use fear tactics to sell government-run health care.

Then, there's the mother of all fear mongerong, "global warming." Full-on bible-thumping type end of the world fear mongering.


Hmmm...the Health Care, in your opinion, "fearmongering" has caused the deaths of how many people? How 'bout the global warming fear thing? Now add up the dead from 12 Sept. 2001 until now, just for shits and giggles why don't you figure up the injured, diplaced and psychologically damaged too...who's fear has caused more harm?

[Marley]

Then why do we trust the government to run our wars?

As opposed to who exactly?

And no, I do not trust the government with my retirement, at all. I've written every nickel of wothholding off, any bebefit I see will be gravy. With all respect, sincerely, if you're only relying on the SSA to provide for you after you're too feeble to provide for yourself, you are SCREWED. My Lord, I can't disagree with anyone enough to wish that on them!

I don't trust the government to educate my child, no way.

[Truth_and_Power]

Then why do we trust the government to run our wars?

As opposed to who exactly?


Shouldn't we each take responsibility for our own wars? Each of us who wants to kill arabs can do so as our budget and desire permits.

[ClayBarham]

Emale:
You are right about the fear mongering from the left, but it goes to show the right had better use it too, as facts do not sell, as you can see by most of the threads on this site. Global warming, as a man-made event is a great example of the fear program the Dems use, and health care another. Look how they appeal to seniors. Republicans are supposed to kick the legs of your walkers out from under you.

[Truth_and_Power]

The only contradiction to your statements that I can think of off hand is every single other thread you've made on this board. They are all about how liberals are going to steal our cheese, liberals are going to get us all killed, etc.

[ViolaLee]

....The rational brain knows the US federal government doesn't do anything well and would never turn to it for the service it most absolutely demands.....

No, it's the Republican/conservative/neocon/Reagan lover brain that thinks the government can't do anything well so they are all out to destroy anything good that the government does.

You'll never have a good government if you elect people that think the government can't do anything right.

And that's why we have a piece of shit government right now.

[Marley]

So totalitarian dictatorships is the answer huh?

In democracies, and democratic republic, one must live by the hand their dealt from the demcoratic process, the trade off for that FREEDOM is an inefficient, ineffective government.

But I do sincerely thank you for demostrating the leftist mindset and how leftist governments are always dictatorships.

Castro for example.

Thanks.

[Truth_and_Power]

So totalitarian dictatorships is the answer huh?


Yeah that's exactly what she said.

[Marley]

"You'll never have a good government if you elect people that..."

A sincere expression of opinion that clearly shows why liberalism, socialism, communism, et al, leftist regimes, always result in dictatorships.

Marxist doctrine requires raw power to take from each according to their abilty and keep for themselves doling out enough to those according to their needs to keep the oppressed from rising up. With a proper mix of raw military might mind you, ask Chaves and his AK-47 licensees.

[Truth_and_Power]

You guys call anything thats not your philosophy a dictatorship. But if you take of the shit colored glasses, you'll see that all of europe leans left, and they do not have dictatorships.

[NortheastCynic]

Clay, once again, I find myself in 1/2 agreement with you. I think that it is unfair to say fear-mongering and appeal to emotion is used exclusively by the left.

The right and gay marriage: gay marriage is immoral, disgusting, etc.
Terrorism: Be afraid, give us more power, we could be attacked, I have a gut feeling [the Secretary of f***ing Homeland Security came on TV with a straight face and told the American people that he had a GUT FEELING that we would be attacked shortly].

I do think that it is inherent in socialism to appeal to emotion [i.e. if a dying person walks into a hospital, does he not have a right to healthcare], but it is oftentimes used by the right in different policy areas.

-NC

[Marley]

Gee T&P you seem to hoave overlooked the good ol' European Soviet Union.

And speaking of which, I guess you think all those oligarchs in Russia just sprung out of the ether, huh?

Castro, what a streak of luck that "democratically elected" president's had huh?

And the guy can leave an entire friggn country to his brother Raul in his will like it's a Chevy.

And whatever you do, look for something that "leans," whatever that is, and pretend I'm referring to these "leaning" things.

Marxist regimes are dictatorships, every time.

[Questerr]

Emale:
You are right about the fear mongering from the left, but it goes to show the right had better use it too, as facts do not sell, as you can see by most of the threads on this site. Global warming, as a man-made event is a great example of the fear program the Dems use, and health care another. Look how they appeal to seniors. Republicans are supposed to kick the legs of your walkers out from under you.


Then, there's the mother of all fear mongerong, "global warming." Full-on bible-thumping type end of the world fear mongering.

I've asked this question before and I want to ask it again:

Whether or not Global Warming is man-made or natural, happening or not happening, do you deny that most, if not all, of the counter-messures benefit us in ways beyong preventing global warming?

Who cares what side is pushing it or what the cause is, reducing green house gas emissions (which cut the damage to the ozone layer and increase of cancer causing radiation), adopting renewable fuels (which cuts polution and more importantly dependence on the Middle East), and conservation of materials benefits us far beyond any alternatives.

In my opinion, the only reason people are against it is because they are lazy and greedy. These programs are going to be expensive and hard and more people are more concerned with making a quick buck now than trying to do anything to help society at large or protect the enviroment.

[ClayBarham]

NECynic:
First, look at what I said about selling, selling anything. Is it rational or reasonable? Look at your own buying and selling experiences. Everyone buys from the gut, the heart, the feelings, a subjective exercise. We only use reason and logic to justify. Think about that, irrespective of politics. All I'm saying is this is how we ordinary mortals work. We react more than we contemplate, otherwise we'd go mad during our waking hours. Now, add back the politics and see that we do the same there. Unfortunately, we think more from the stimulation of fear, anger, depression and elation than from the objective, reasoning mind, and we pick our political positions from those choices. Look how much fear, anger and depression are introduced into the campaigns. Recall of Reagan used elation more than anyone else. Then, think about how we are more apt to react to defend what is ours than to go after something we want and do not have. It is a great world out there, and I am just trying to comment on it.

[ViolaLee]

So totalitarian dictatorships is the answer huh?


Yeah that's exactly what she said.
Right, exactly. :ecstatic:

[Marley]

Most, if not all, of the counter-messures benefit us in ways beyong preventing global warming?

I doubt any counter-measures can even be measured!

Is the "globe warming?"

Obviously yes, I have no glaciers in my yard!

IS that good or bad?

NOBODY KNOWS!!!


You can't fix a "problem" until you understand the problem. We can't predict weather more than 72 hours out.

We have literally NO data to even begin to assess the true situation. 30 years ago is the earliest that global comparable data is possible to start to compile and analyze, and 30 years is a blink of an eye in this situation.

The globe went into ice age, humanity adapted, the globe has warmed ever since, humanity has adapted.


No one can cite for me the GOAL of these "counter-measures." Counter-measure to reach WHAT? 59 degress? 50 degrees? 65 degress? WHAT?

[Truth_and_Power]

liberalism, socialism, communism, et al, leftist regimes, always result in dictatorships.


False.

Examples: England, France, Germany, ETC

[Marley]

None of which are socialists regimes.

Again, there was no Tory party in the USSR, or in Cuba today.

[Truth_and_Power]

None of which are socialists regimes.

Again, there was no Tory party in the USSR, or in Cuba today.


You said "liberalism" and "leftist". You don't consider france liberal?

[NortheastCynic]

NECynic:
First, look at what I said about selling, selling anything. Is it rational or reasonable? Look at your own buying and selling experiences. Everyone buys from the gut, the heart, the feelings, a subjective exercise. We only use reason and logic to justify. Think about that, irrespective of politics. All I'm saying is this is how we ordinary mortals work. We react more than we contemplate, otherwise we'd go mad during our waking hours. Now, add back the politics and see that we do the same there. Unfortunately, we think more from the stimulation of fear, anger, depression and elation than from the objective, reasoning mind, and we pick our political positions from those choices. Look how much fear, anger and depression are introduced into the campaigns. Recall of Reagan used elation more than anyone else. Then, think about how we are more apt to react to defend what is ours than to go after something we want and do not have. It is a great world out there, and I am just trying to comment on it.

Clay,
I understand completely [and agree] with your commentary regarding the irrationality [or more accurately, the lack of ratonality] in the buying-selling process. What I took issue with was your deduction that Democratic politicians appeal to emotion while Republicans appeal to reason. I believe that both parties appeal to emotions; Democrats use 'compasion' and tug at your heart strings while Republicans remind you how screwed you would be without government 'protection'. That is the only issue I take with your original post. And by the way, I think we should make "It is a great world out there, and I am just trying to comment on it" the official Democracy Forums montra, very cool line.

-NC

[ClayBarham]

Emale:
It's just that I don't agree with your assessment of GOP emotional appeal being for government protection, other than the war on terror. Many Republicans are following the lead of the dems in appealing to compassion for the 'little guy,' which means taking from those who have to give to those who have not....making the appeal to one faction to rip off another, which is not the place of government. GOP has, for most of its time, been for local home rule, smaller government and be compassionate on your own hook. I agree they are infected today, which is why they can't renew their following, as every Republican seems confused, or have moved over to Libertarian. I'm suggesting the GOP sell on emotion like Reagan did, on the positives of America and keeping what is good about America rather than the hope of being taken care of by the likes of Hillary.