Electoral College Gone by 2010

[ClayBarham]

Estimates, in some jurisdictions, say up to twenty percent of votes cast are fraudulent. The cemetery vote, the sick and dying, those who move away, and those who are illegal immigrants make up that twenty percent. It mainly affects those areas where the fraud vote is possible, such as large cities where Democrats control the voting process. It is effective in getting local office seats filled with liberal Democrats, as well as building votes in the Electoral College for President and Vice President. It does not work as well in states and smaller cities where fraud is more difficult, where those interested in keeping the vote honest closely watch polling places.

The Founding Fathers gave this nation a voting system to protect regional interests, rather than concentrating the votes for President and Vice President in several large population centers. Each region in America has different interests, and as such, different ideas as to whom they would select to represent them in the National Government. In chasing votes for the positions of President and Vice President, campaigns would have to reflect national interests more than regional. For example, if there were no Electoral College, campaigns would concentrate on the interests only of major population centers. The campaign would focus on what the majority of its voters want from government. In the case of America today, it would also have to include the interests of illegal aliens as well as names from the cemetery.

What are the interests of the voters in the highly populated areas? They are no longer interested in the rights to succeed or the freedom to pursue legitimate self-interests. They focus on their common needs as an underclass community. They want to share in the created wealth of the nation as a whole. They are tax-eaters, not taxpayers. The appeal must be to getting members of those communities a larger share of what those who have worked hard and created, invented, built a great nation, earned.

Few in those communities would admit they have little or less because they are incapable or disinterested in paying a price for success. That would be a slap at their pride. It would be an admission of being less capable than others who have succeeded. Instead, they take the justifying position that they are suffering discrimination and exploitation, held down by forces that are more powerful. The political appeal answers this belief. The Democrats, the only ones who even campaign in those areas, preach the need of those less empowered to rise up from their poverty and fight the exploiting upper classes. They are to get their share only by voting Democrat. Convinced with much excitement, they can throw off the chains that bind them by electing Democrats, who will see to it rewards are theirs because they occupy space in America.
Once the Democrats take Congress and the White House in 2009, it will be a simple matter for them to approve a Constitutional Amendment to eliminate the Electoral College. They will justify it as a one-man, one-vote, popular vote program, which most people will accept in the Democrat-controlled state legislatures. It will pass. The votes needed to elect a President and Vice President will shift to the coastal states, wherein their biggest cities will determine the winning candidates. Only a small percentage of voters, Americans, dead people and illegal immigrants, will determine America’s future and position in the world. America will then shed its distinction of being the only nation in the world based upon individual freedom, legitimate self-interests and shift to one reflecting a majority of community interests, as described by the Democrats.

Without the Electoral College, America will effectively rejoin the Old World as a nation where the many are ruled by the few. Those who rule will decide what individual pursuits of personal interests, ingenuity and creativity is permitted according to their limited views. This is what we will be voting for in 2008, and what will likely pass with the splintering of the only opposition party. There will be no need for Presidential primaries in Iowa or New Hampshire.

[nevadamedic]

Estimates, in some jurisdictions, say up to twenty percent of votes cast are fraudulent. The cemetery vote, the sick and dying, those who move away, and those who are illegal immigrants make up that twenty percent. It mainly affects those areas where the fraud vote is possible, such as large cities where Democrats control the voting process. It is effective in getting local office seats filled with liberal Democrats, as well as building votes in the Electoral College for President and Vice President. It does not work as well in states and smaller cities where fraud is more difficult, where those interested in keeping the vote honest closely watch polling places.

The Founding Fathers gave this nation a voting system to protect regional interests, rather than concentrating the votes for President and Vice President in several large population centers. Each region in America has different interests, and as such, different ideas as to whom they would select to represent them in the National Government. In chasing votes for the positions of President and Vice President, campaigns would have to reflect national interests more than regional. For example, if there were no Electoral College, campaigns would concentrate on the interests only of major population centers. The campaign would focus on what the majority of its voters want from government. In the case of America today, it would also have to include the interests of illegal aliens as well as names from the cemetery.

What are the interests of the voters in the highly populated areas? They are no longer interested in the rights to succeed or the freedom to pursue legitimate self-interests. They focus on their common needs as an underclass community. They want to share in the created wealth of the nation as a whole. They are tax-eaters, not taxpayers. The appeal must be to getting members of those communities a larger share of what those who have worked hard and created, invented, built a great nation, earned.

Few in those communities would admit they have little or less because they are incapable or disinterested in paying a price for success. That would be a slap at their pride. It would be an admission of being less capable than others who have succeeded. Instead, they take the justifying position that they are suffering discrimination and exploitation, held down by forces that are more powerful. The political appeal answers this belief. The Democrats, the only ones who even campaign in those areas, preach the need of those less empowered to rise up from their poverty and fight the exploiting upper classes. They are to get their share only by voting Democrat. Convinced with much excitement, they can throw off the chains that bind them by electing Democrats, who will see to it rewards are theirs because they occupy space in America.
Once the Democrats take Congress and the White House in 2009, it will be a simple matter for them to approve a Constitutional Amendment to eliminate the Electoral College. They will justify it as a one-man, one-vote, popular vote program, which most people will accept in the Democrat-controlled state legislatures. It will pass. The votes needed to elect a President and Vice President will shift to the coastal states, wherein their biggest cities will determine the winning candidates. Only a small percentage of voters, Americans, dead people and illegal immigrants, will determine America’s future and position in the world. America will then shed its distinction of being the only nation in the world based upon individual freedom, legitimate self-interests and shift to one reflecting a majority of community interests, as described by the Democrats.

Without the Electoral College, America will effectively rejoin the Old World as a nation where the many are ruled by the few. Those who rule will decide what individual pursuits of personal interests, ingenuity and creativity is permitted according to their limited views. This is what we will be voting for in 2008, and what will likely pass with the splintering of the only opposition party. There will be no need for Presidential primaries in Iowa or New Hampshire.


I disagree. All of the small communities will add up and Candidates will realize that. It's a BS system that can override the voice of the American People and that's not right.

[Truth_and_Power]

The more I think about it the less of a problem I have with requiring a photo ID & disbanding the electoral college system.

[DANG]

Vote Fraud is not a problem when you have Election Fraud that can switch the entire outcome at the central tabulators.

Vote fraud is when individuals (like Ann Coulter) cheating at the polls.

Election Fraud is where you have criminals doing the counting.

Small beans vs millionaire felons

[Truth_and_Power]

I say lets fix both dang. What's the hangup?

[DANG]

Oh, as for the electoral college.... somebody just tried to abolish it here in California.... where it would be as big as a few small states (55 electoral votes, I believe).

That would not be fair if we were the only state that divided the votes, rather than the current "Winner take all" (the whole state).

It would be right, ONLY if all states played by the same rules.

I think elections should be more uniform. One fair and easy system for the whole country. Transparent. It should also be a RIGHT to vote. Currently it is not.

[Truth_and_Power]

Yeah I'm ok with it being a right too DANG, but that doesn't mean that you can show up with no picture ID and say "well oops i want to exercise my right anyway and my name is Johnny B. Doe Age 87 formerly of Chicago". Anyone can get a picture ID, it takes less time than informing yourself about who to vote for, that's for sure.

[DANG]

I say lets fix both dang. What's the hangup?
Sure, but the voter fraud number (20%, 1st sentence of OP)that ClayBarham apparently got from the Dept of Exaggerrations and Obfuscations

I suppose when he stated "up to 20%", that would include .001%.... any ambigous number LESS than 20% is possibleEstimates, in some jurisdictions, say up to twenty percent of votes cast are fraudulent.

Some people actually believe their dog is a citizen of legal age.... so they get it an absentee ballot. It happens. Its not going to affect the election, though. Not at the rate that it happens.

Diebold had trouble selling their e-voting division last week. Because they were OUTLAWED here in CA, 2 or 3 weeks ago. The rest of the nation should follow suit. The Diebold stocks plummetted..... so the changed the name to Premier. Trying to put lipstick on a pig, I guess.... A monkey could hack Diebold software.

ES&S (the brother of the owner of Diebold) machines have a little yellow button on the back of their machines. You press that and you can vote as many times as you want. Should it be that easy to cheat? Yet, those machines are certified all over the country.

(Dont forget to hit the button again before you leave the booth)

Arrest any Secretary of State who certifies these easily hackable machines.

Starting with Kenneth Blackwell (R-OH) who Took aShit on our country.

The wrong man is in office. Pirates at the Helm, by theft; Not democracy.[hr]
Yeah I'm ok with it being a right too DANG, but that doesn't mean that you can show up with no picture ID and say "well oops i want to exercise my right anyway and my name is Johnny B. Doe Age 87 formerly of Chicago". Anyone can get a picture ID, it takes less time than informing yourself about who to vote for, that's for sure.
I dont have a problem with ID..... other people might though. Homeless/poor people should have equal rights as those who can afford the $20 for an ID.

If Johnny B Doe is on the roster..... as a registered voter, who is going to stop him?

I am sure there are folks who cheat small scale.

It should be penalized.

For chrissakes go after the ones who are stealing the whole freaking election though.

[Truth_and_Power]

I have no doubt that clay's numbers are coming directly from extremely slanted sources. However, it is in our interest to not inspire doubt in the process. I say send absentee ballots only to the registered addresses, and require a photo ID to pick them up in person. Require a photo ID to vote. Make voter fraud a felony if it's not already and prosecute those who vote twice.

I agree totally, perhaps open source is the best solution for voting machines? It's hard to carry off a heist in the spotlight. Also, this code could be used by countries around the world.. now that's exporting democracy. Also, a paper trail is completely necessary.

By the way, the ID is only $10 last I checked, it's a driver's license that's $20. Those homeless folks have 10 bucks, and so do the poor.

[ClayBarham]

"Some estimates say as high as 20%" which would be in, say Brooklyn or downtown Atlanta? Who knows, and who cares at this point. There are over 3100 counties in the United States. I would assume if the Electoral College goes, in any presidential election, about 3,000 of those counties might just as well stay home, because their votes won't count. It is amazing that the Founders actually saw this happening and decided to "buffer" the temptation to focus only on the most populated area interests and screw the rest of the country who must pay for it. In every one of your affiliations, I can see why you would want the Electoral College finished off, because now you can get your dreams and wishes put through without having to worry about all those "traditionalists" in fly-over country.

[Truth_and_Power]

Why shouldn't a state that is divided 70/30 count more than one that's divided 51/49? I live in florida and thanks to that 2% illiterate natty lite drinkers, my vote counts for nothing. Nevermind the third parties who are held out by this.

[DANG]

Inflation. Last time I got an ID it was $10.

Last time I renewed a drivers license , yeah it was $20.

3 weeks ago I had to pay $27.

I assume ID's went up relatively.

When I was homeless many years ago....
If I had $10....
I couldnt decide between a beer and a burger.... an ID was not even in the equation.

[NortheastCynic]

TaP:
Take all the shots you'd like at our electoral system, but once you start bringing Nattie Lite into this, we've got problems. :P

As to the original topic:
I think that as long as we are going to elect a President that just under half the country did not vote for, we might as well have an electoral college system that is not winner-take-all within the states. Divide states up, allowing candidates to win SOME electoral votes from every state. It allows thickly populated areas to be represented more fairly yet does not allow 'fly over country' to be completely ignored.

-NC

[ClayBarham]

If you believe, as many, that their votes do not count, why vote? If you choose to participate, however, you will choose which side of an issue you belong. Many today side with the idea that government exists to take from people who earn to give to those who do not, so they vote for that kind of ideal that will bankrupt everyone equally. Then, there are those of us who are looked upon as extremists who still believe in liberty.

[Truth_and_Power]

If you believe, as many, that their votes do not count, why vote? If you choose to participate, however, you will choose which side of an issue you belong. Many today side with the idea that government exists to take from people who earn to give to those who do not, so they vote for that kind of ideal that will bankrupt everyone equally. Then, there are those of us who are looked upon as extremists who still believe in liberty.


.. in concluson, liberals are ruining america.[hr]
TaP:
Take all the shots you'd like at our electoral system, but once you start bringing Nattie Lite into this, we've got problems. :P

As to the original topic:
I think that as long as we are going to elect a President that just under half the country did not vote for, we might as well have an electoral college system that is not winner-take-all within the states. Divide states up, allowing candidates to win SOME electoral votes from every state. It allows thickly populated areas to be represented more fairly yet does not allow 'fly over country' to be completely ignored.

-NC


True, and keeping the electoral college system but removing the winner take all part would prevent vote fraud in one state from diluting the votes of another state. It wouldn't stop one region of a state from diluting the votes of another region, but atleast you've confined the damage somewhat, and 10,000 stolen votes cannot "steal" 100% of the votes from a state, they only dilute. Damage control.

[ECW]

Come on back with a citation for that 20% figure, Clay. Otherwise it's just another number and it means nothing.

[ClayBarham]

Are you trying to say that vote fraud does not exist, say, in Chicago as an example? Can you really say there is no cemetary vote? Can you really say the Democratic big city machines are and will always be honest and make certain only those entitled to vote will vote? If you can say all that, then even if I provided the vote machines and voter sign ups to prove it, you would never accept it because "belief precedes understanding," as Augustine said.

[ECW]

Are you trying to say that vote fraud does not exist, say, in Chicago as an example? Can you really say there is no cemetary vote? Can you really say the Democratic big city machines are and will always be honest and make certain only those entitled to vote will vote? If you can say all that, then even if I provided the vote machines and voter sign ups to prove it, you would never accept it because "belief precedes understanding," as Augustine said.


Are you telling me that there is no election fraud? That the Secretary of State in both Florida and Ohio didn't manipulate the vote totals so their chosen candidate would win?

Here's the deal: prove what you say. Come up with a citation that shows that there is 20% vote fraud. You may find some but you will never find 20%. There have been 87 cases of voter fraud brought to court by US Attorneys in the last six years where over 300 million votes were cast. The doesn't add up to 20%.

Time to bring the PROOF and leave the opinions at home. To counter the august Augustine and bring the phrase into the 21st Century: it is proof that talks while bullshit walks. With proof you have understanding. You have none. Yet.

[ClayBarham]

Why? There is no proof that would satisfy you. If I came up with book and verse, you'd simply say Republicans must have made it up. Your mind is closed on the issue, so why should I waste time? remember what Augustine said: "Belief precedes understanding."

[ECW]

Why? There is no proof that would satisfy you. If I came up with book and verse, you'd simply say Republicans must have made it up. Your mind is closed on the issue, so why should I waste time? remember what Augustine said: "Belief precedes understanding."


So what you are saying is that you have no proof. I thought so. Thanks for playing.

[ClayBarham]

You made statements about Republican fraud in Ohio and Florida, and you are not providing proof....and I don't bother asking for it because all you have are the accusations of party hacks who lost and cried foul, but to you, since they are from your side, that is truth and proof. If such were the case, proven so, someone would be in jail now.

[Truth_and_Power]

You made statements about Republican fraud in Ohio and Florida, and you are not providing proof....and I don't bother asking for it because all you have are the accusations of party hacks who lost and cried foul, but to you, since they are from your side, that is truth and proof. If such were the case, proven so, someone would be in jail now.


Actually it'd have to be a civil lawsuit because all of the prosecutors employed by the justice department are "loyal bushies".

[ClayBarham]

Let's see, Clinton fired 93 Federal Attorneys, those appointed by Bush Sr and hired his own people, and no one complained. Bush Jr comes in, and down the road, fires six of Clinton's Attorneys and is being crucified for it. Yeah, I can see where the Bushies are so bad.

[Labrocca]

Clay that's a great post and more of an editorial. I am moving this because I believe it's a good read for everyone.

[Truth_and_Power]

Let's see, Clinton fired 93 Federal Attorneys, those appointed by Bush Sr and hired his own people, and no one complained. Bush Jr comes in, and down the road, fires six of Clinton's Attorneys and is being crucified for it. Yeah, I can see where the Bushies are so bad.


I would explain the difference but I know you are perfectly capable of ignoring the distinction.

[Labrocca]

So far Clay you have mentioned 3 places which are likely to have high voter fraud...Brooklyn, Atlanta, and Chicago..what's next? Compton? I see a theme in your assertion. 20%??? I think not. If it's 3% I would be suprised...however even 1% is too much especially given these incredibly close races. One has to wonder if both the Dems and GOP cheat the system. I can't imagine that it's only one side that finds ways to cheat. There is always a person willing to justify doing something wrong. In their minds they see the opposition as evil or criminal and so cheating the system to ensure that "good" wins is their justification.

We could certainly use a better system for voting. Personally I think voting should be public information. Posted on the internet where anyone can view who you voted for. Now this MIGHT sound like it's against the priniciple of privacy but what choices do we have? It's either privacy or rigged elections...which is the greater evil? And yes..I realize that I am justifying. Ironic ehh.

[ViolaLee]

Let's see, Clinton fired 93 Federal Attorneys, those appointed by Bush Sr and hired his own people, and no one complained. Bush Jr comes in, and down the road, fires six of Clinton's Attorneys and is being crucified for it. Yeah, I can see where the Bushies are so bad.
Are you serious with this old spin? All the presidents replace the attorneys when they take office. Carter, Reagan, Papa Bush, Clinton, and Baby Bush did it. None of them before Dubya have fired a bunch of them in the middle of their term like Bush did. Have you really not been paying attention, or do you just believe the lies the GOP spins out for you?