tax protest

[flaja]

Suppose the president were to tell the American people that the country is facing a fiscal crisis because Congress overspends. Suppose further that the president were to tell us we can withhold a percentage of our income taxes (say in proportion to the percentage of the federal budget to which we object to on an individual basis) and then issues a blanket pardon for anyone that withholds part of their taxes?

What would Congress do?

[lily]

You mean besides shit a brick?

I don't see it happening. I do see Bush pushing for no more pork. I also don't see that happening.

I had a thought on this a while ago......while I like your idea of with holding taxes. I think any bill that comes in front of Bush to be signed with any pork in it should not only be vetoed, but the porkers should be exposed. But then I'd also like a box on my income tax giving me a choice of where I want my money to go.

[ClayBarham]

When I ran for the State Legislature (CA) some years ago, I told everyone they should be able to predict how I would vote, or what kind of legislation I would support or sponsor. I answered it this way. If a bill came before me that returned your property and rights to you that had been taken away, I would vote yes. If a bill came before me that would take your property or rights, I would vote no. That property also included taxes, as governments at every level have more than they need now. In California, Governor Reagan, in 1967, proposed a $5 Billion budget which blew our minds. The state has grown 50% since then, and the budget is over $100 billion now. Now, look at the Feds. Look at the bridge that collapsed. The gasoline taxes set aside for infrastructure are used for everything else, so the Feds want to up the gas tax again. Really good thinking. However, they justify it because they are simply redistributing income.

[PatrickHenry]

You don't think the President and the Congress COLLUDE to fleece us?

They will never take opposite courses when it comes to taking the citizens money. They are parasites from the same confiscatory womb.

Get real, they will only favor their rich friends, not Joe Sixpacks like us...

We need a necktie party...

[Marley]

Use the constitutionally valid pardon power as a loophole to invalidly affect tax policy which the constitution grants to congress?

Interesting.

Wouldn't it be better to just straightforwardly exercise the constitional veto power and stop the spending? The good ol' "goverment shut down?"

[flaja]

Use the constitutionally valid pardon power as a loophole to invalidly affect tax policy which the constitution grants to congress?

Interesting.

Wouldn't it be better to just straightforwardly exercise the constitional veto power and stop the spending? The good ol' "goverment shut down?"


And shut down the government as we did when Clinton occupied the White House?

[Marley]

No, Clinton shut down the government when Clinton occupied the White House.

The Republican congress passed an appropriations bill, Clinton vetoed it, Clinton shut down the government as was his constitutional right to do so as president. The only way congress could shut down the government would be to not pass appropriations. But the Republican congress did pass appropriations.


The "line item veto" was determined to be unconstitutional by the courts, therefore the president can only totally accept or reject what congress enacts.

The smarter thing to do to mitigate the risk of MARGINAL overspending is to diversify who does the spending. Your state legislature, county council and city hall should be able to tax and spend more and the federal government less ans the consitution ackowledges in the 10th amendment.

[flaja]

The smarter thing to do to mitigate the risk of MARGINAL overspending is to diversify who does the spending. Your state legislature, county council and city hall should be able to tax and spend more and the federal government less ans the consitution ackowledges in the 10th amendment.


There are other alternatives, but since it is Friday and I am new here and thus do not know much traffic this board gets over weekends, I may wait until Sunday night to introduce them.

[Marley]

Surely there are many alternatives.

I look forward to your subsequent offerings.

[Truth_and_Power]

Suppose the president were to tell the American people that the country is facing a fiscal crisis because Congress overspends. Suppose further that the president were to tell us we can withhold a percentage of our income taxes (say in proportion to the percentage of the federal budget to which we object to on an individual basis) and then issues a blanket pardon for anyone that withholds part of their taxes?

What would Congress do?


Stop funding the war.

[Mayberry]

I wouldn't give the bastards one red cent if it were up to me. So much of OUR money is STOLEN by government to be doled out to welfare programs and pork it is sickening. Taxes that are enacted for a specific purpose are stolen and reallocated to other things. This is crap, and I'm sick of it. State, local, and federal, they can all kiss my ass. Except they won't, because they steal my money before I ever see it.

[flaja]

Surely there are many alternatives.

I look forward to your subsequent offerings.


The purpose of what I propose is to require the Congress to raise and appropriate revenue in a way that will give the American People greater direct control over federal budget priorities. Congress will no longer be allowed to enact a single budget and thereby disguise the true extent of federal spending.

Fiscal Responsibility Amendment

Clause 1: (Federal departments are to be used simply to manage the day-to-day operation of the Congress, Presidency and the federal courts, such things as salaries for office holders and their support staff as well as facilities maintenance. All other departments, agencies, offices, bureaus et cetera will be assigned to a cabinet department and will receive their appropriations through them.)
After one year from the ratification of this amendment all appropriations approved by the House of Representatives shall be disbursed through a federal department created according to law for the Legislative, Executive and Judiciary authorities of the United States, or an executive department which may be created by Congress in consequence of Article II of this Constitution.

Clause 2
Each federal department or executive department may, at the direction of Congress, raise revenue by conducting a lottery providing that the prizes and odds of winning shall be uniform for all games so conducted and all prizes shall be disbursed within thirty days of being awarded. Congress shall not authorize any department to conduct a lottery to the exclusion of any other department.
No person other than an elector for United States representatives shall receive any lottery prize provided in consequence of this amendment.
The revenue raised by any department's lottery shall be deposited in an account established therefore. No money shall be appropriated from a department’s account except in consequence of law and no law may appropriate money from the account of more than one department or transfer money between accounts.

Clause 3
Congress shall have the power to borrow money on the credit of the United States only by authorizing the executive departments, at the request of the President, to sell bonds to the electors for United States representatives. Congress shall by law determine the interest and length of maturity for all bonds and such interest and maturities shall be uniform for all bonds sold without regard to the department, which issues the bonds.
Revenue raised by the sale of a department's bonds shall be deposited in an account established therefore. No money shall be appropriated from a department’s account except in consequence of law and no law may appropriate money from the account of more than one department or transfer money between departments.

Clause 4
The President shall have the power to reject and to return to Congress according to Article I of this Constitution any portion of a bill appropriating money without rejecting and returning the entire bill.

Or

The President shall have the power to refuse to execute any appropriation enacted by Congress until such time as Congress, by the concurrence of two-thirds of the members of both houses, instructs him to do so.

Clause 5
No federal department or executive department of the United States may extend credit to another federal or executive department or to any one of the several States or to any foreign nation or association thereof or to any corporation or other entity created by Congress, or created by any treaty or created by any of one of the several states, but Congress may designate federal depository financial institutions, which may make such loans under the regulations which Congress may devise.

Clause 6: (This provision will require Congress to make appropriations only on the basis of revenue that has already been collected. Budgets based on estimated future revenue will be prohibited.)
After eight years from the ratification of this amendment Congress shall not appropriate any money within the term of one year after such money is collected.

Clause 7
After five years from the ratification of this amendment the congress and the states may not hold any money in trust for a term in excess of one year except for the purposes of providing retirement or disability pensions.

Clause 8
No appropriation of money made by Congress shall be for a longer term than five years.

Clause 9: (This provision will prohibit wasteful spending that allows incumbents to unduly influence the outcome of elections.)
The Congress may not appropriate money within one year of the selection of representatives without the concurrence of two-thirds of the members of the House of Representatives and such number shall include a majority of representatives from each state, unless Congress has previously declared war.

[beachbum]

Stop funding the war.


i dont see that ever hapenting. besides, you can protest your anti-war opinion by not paying the percentage that gets taken out of your taxes for the war.

[Mayberry]

Flaja, that was an excellent post. Absolutely excellent. Bravo, sir! You should run for office! Fiscal responsibility of that magnitude is what this country is desperately lacking, and in dire need of. My God, if this were to come to pass, just think of what a great country we'd have again.

[flaja]

Flaja, that was an excellent post. Absolutely excellent. Bravo, sir! You should run for office! Fiscal responsibility of that magnitude is what this country is desperately lacking, and in dire need of. My God, if this were to come to pass, just think of what a great country we'd have again.


What I posted here is from the platform of an alternative 3rd party that I would like to establish. This plank is coupled with another constitutional amendment that is designed to expressly regulate the government’s power to tax at the federal, state and local levels. I figure that government will always spend what we give it and then still want to spend more, so we must better regulate what we have to give government to begin with. The text for this amendment is so large that I am hesitant to post it here. I’ve posted it on other boards but few people will take the time to read it.

I set up a website in 2003 to promote this party. The website attracted about 2000 visitors in the 3-4 months that I had it operational. But, the party didn’t attract any real interest and I didn’t have the money or the time to actively promote it so I took the website down hoping to be able to revise it someday. In the interim my uncle died unexpectedly and I am now trying to use my inheritance to establish a private school and/or environmental research and education center, but I cannot do this without the help of a church or some other non-profit organization that can provide land to build on and a volunteer labor force so I can use an ecologically-sound (but labor intensive) building technique. Once I get the school/environmental center operational, or figure out what else to do, I may return to the political party.

BTW: I did run for the U.S. House of Representatives one time as a write-in candidate as a way of protesting the Florida GOP.

[Mayberry]

Sounds like you're doing great things. You really should run for office again. You'd have my vote!

[flaja]

Sounds like you're doing great things. You really should run for office again. You'd have my vote!


PM me your email address and I'll send you an MS Word copy of the platform.