liberal paradise?

[flaja]

Government:
1. The government levies heavy taxes.
2. The government prints money whenever necessary to avoid deficit spending or borrowing.
3. The government subsidizes things like factory construction and maintenance.
4. The government determines what a farm will produce.
5. The government determines the prices at which a farmer may sell what he produces (the prices are automatically set above what the market would otherwise dictate so farmers have a certain amount of guaranteed income).
6. The government determines what goods and services businesses can produce, how much they will produce and the price at which the produced goods and services will be sold.
7. The government, at the direction of business owners, determines the wages and salaries of all employees.
8. The government provides health insurance, unemployment insurance, disability insurance and a retirement pension to employees.
9. The government operates an organization that provides low-cost recreational and cultural activities- things like luxury cruise vacations for less than 2 weeks’ pay.
10. The government conscripts labor for public works projects in order to relieve massive, chronic or long-term unemployment.

Farmers:
1. Family farms may not be mortgaged or seized by creditors.
2. Family farms may not be sold.
3. Family farms must be inherited by the farmer’s oldest son or the nearest male relative and the heir is responsible for providing a living for the deceased farmer’s surviving spouse and minor children.

Business owners:
1. All corporations worth less than $500,000 must be sold to a larger corporation or closed.
2. No new corporation worth less than $2.8 million may be established.
3. No more than 6% of a corporation’s profits may be distributed as dividends. The remaining 94% must be either re-invested in the corporation or be used to purchase government bonds (which the government is not obligated to ever pay back).
4. Employers may demand greater output from employees without increasing wages or benefits.
5. Large business must either form cartels or join already existing cartels pertaining to whatever industry the business is associated with.
6. No business may fire an employee or lay off an employee without the government’s permission.

Labor:
1. Labor unions are illegal.
2. Employees may not strike.
3. No employee may leave his employer without the employer’s permission.
4. An employee must pay anywhere from 15 to 35 per cent of his pay in taxes and charitable donations mandated by the government.

[Stoner]

That about sums it up.

[ClayBarham]

And, in 2008 we will vote to make it worse.

[PatrickHenry]

What in the hell are you talking about?

[ECW]

Farmers:
1. Family farms may not be mortgaged or seized by creditors.
2. Family farms may not be sold.
3. Family farms must be inherited by the farmer’s oldest son or the nearest male relative and the heir is responsible for providing a living for the deceased farmer’s surviving spouse and minor children.

Business owners:
1. All corporations worth less than $500,000 must be sold to a larger corporation or closed.
2. No new corporation worth less than $2.8 million may be established.
3. No more than 6% of a corporation’s profits may be distributed as dividends. The remaining 94% must be either re-invested in the corporation or be used to purchase government bonds (which the government is not obligated to ever pay back).
4. Employers may demand greater output from employees without increasing wages or benefits.
5. Large business must either form cartels or join already existing cartels pertaining to whatever industry the business is associated with.
6. No business may fire an employee or lay off an employee without the government’s permission.

Labor:
1. Labor unions are illegal.
2. Employees may not strike.
3. No employee may leave his employer without the employer’s permission.
4. An employee must pay anywhere from 15 to 35 per cent of his pay in taxes and charitable donations mandated by the government.


Stoner agrees with this rack of crap and that just goes to show you how seriously deluded both of you are. Labor unions are NOT illegal, employee MAY strike, and you don't know what you are talking about.

[Alonzo]

I'm confused by the bizarreness of this thread. Anti-labor union is part of a liberal paradise? Wha?

[ViolaLee]

LOL! Stoner would be the only one who would agree with this strange thread....well maybe CWN too.

[flaja]

I'm confused by the bizarreness of this thread. Anti-labor union is part of a liberal paradise? Wha?


A ban on labor unions coupled with guaranteed jobs and a guaranteed standard of living?

[Alonzo]

In a "liberal paradise" liberals wouldn't be choosing between one or the other. They'd have labor unions with guaranteed jobs and living. There's a bunch of other absurd things in your list, but that's the most blatant. Things such as employees having no control, favoring big business over small business, The argument is beyond ridiculous, likely born out of ignorance of traditional liberal beliefs.

[Questerr]

*My Liberal Paradise*

Government:
1. The government (only state or local) levies no income taxes, only sales taxes (most consumer food products will be exempt). This only applies to private individuals, not publicly traded corporations. The federal government only levies tariffs.
2. The government prints money only based on an established monetary standard (like gold or platinum).
3. The government declares subsides unconstitutional.
4. The government does not interfere with the business of private businesses, with the exception of regulations to ensure that no monopoly appears.
5. The government determines if prices for goods and services are considered guoging and only then fines companies for coercion of the common man.
7. The government directs the salaries of corporate executives by taxing corporations through tariffs. Corporate tax rates shall be based on the median salary of all employees of that company. By decreasing the salary gap between worker and executive, the tax rate goes down.
8. The federal government provides no welfare assistance programs. State and local governments provide welfare programs based on imput from their populations and the needs of the individual areas.
9. The government (only state or local) provides oppurtunities of work for public works projects in order to relieve massive, chronic or long-term unemployment.
10. Were possible City and County forums shall be established to allow local citizens to decide on issues that affect them directly. In addition, occassion national plebicites will be held in these locations.
11. All lobbying by non-private citizens shall be illegal. Corporations shall be blocked from involvment in campaign financing. Congressmen, Governors, and State Legislators shall be banned from recieving gifts of any kind from lobbyists. Lobbyists shall have no more power than the average citizen visiting Washington to speak to a Senator.

Farmers:
1. As private companies, shall not be interfered with by the government as much as possible.
2. Subsides shall remain unconstitutional.
3. Farmers shall be encouraged to grow non-corn ethanol producing crops by considering crops used for ethanol production exempt from sales tax.

Business owners:
1. All corporations that take advantage of their workers (using the negative connotation), heavily polute the enviroment, or deliberately distribute intentionally harmful products (marketed as safe) shall be treated as foreign corporations and will be subject to tariffs in addition to US corporate taxes.
2. Workers shall have equal representation on the executive board. Their reps shall not be paid as executives and will represent the interests of the average worker. Pay raises and benefit cuts that only profit the executives may be vetoed by popular vote of the employees.
3. Corporations and Private Businesses involved in outsourcing Amercian jobs will be treated as foreign corporations and will have their tariffs rates doubled.

Labor:
1. Labor unions are legal.
2. Local and state police used to break up strikes shall be tried with violating the constitutional rights of an American citizen.
3. Labor unions involved in lobbying shall be fined for the first offense, and organizers shall be arrested following the second.

Energy Policy:
1. Taxation of energy corporations shall be based on ammount of money funding research into alternate energy that sees marked results. (In addition to salary gap rates)
2. Electric car producing Private Businesses and Corporations shall be exempt from tariffs, corporate taxes, and sales taxes.
3. Passenger rail companies and railroad builders shall be exempt from tariffs and taxes.
4. Airlines may not book flights with less than 50% capacity taken. (Airlines make up the largest users of oil in America and often fly with nearly empty planes just so they don't lose time slots)

Border Security and Immigration:
1. Intensive border and port security shall be undertaken.
2. Completion of the southern border wall will be made a priority. The Northern border shall have walls in high traffic areas and cooperation with Canadian authorities to monitor low traffic areas.
3. All shipping containers entering the US shall be X-rayed and radiologically scanned.
4. The Customs police and Border Patrol shall be fully integrated into State police forces in their respective states.
5. The Fourteenth Ammendment shall be recognized in its historical context as applying to the children of freed slaves. Children of illegal immigrants shall not recieve US citizenship.
6. All illegals arrested within the United States shall be deported.
7. Anyone found selling their social security information or birth certificate to an illegal immigrant shall recieve a minimum 10 year prison sentence, loss of US citizenship, and deportation.
8. Business owners knowingly hiring illegal immigrants shall have their taxes and tariffs doubled. Further hirings shall be treated the same as above.
9. The US shall create a United States Foreign Legion. Any foriegn citizen that serves in the Foreign Legion shall recieve US citizenship after 5 years and will recieve citizenship for his immediate family.
10. An alternate Foreign Worker Legion shall be created for non-military foreign citizen and will provide both foreign humanitarian and domestic infrastructure assistance. They shall serve 7 years to recieve the same benefits.

[Truth_and_Power]

I have no idea where you got most of that stuff from. I have never heard of any party proposing that the eldest son be required to farm his father's land. I think you need to consider not reading some of those websites you're into.

[flaja]

I have posted this plan on several other message boards. The posters here on this board, like all other boards except one, have failed to see this socio-economic plan for what it is.

It is customary for liberals in America to compare conservatives with Nazis. However, at the same time many people have thought that this plan is socialist or communist- something from the Soviet Union, or Cuba. Some posters on other boards wanted to know which Democrat presidential candidate this plan came from.

This plan is a real plan and it has been implemented- in Nazi Germany.
Apart from updating the dollar amounts to account for inflation, this plan is a summary of what was actually implemented in Nazi Germany (according to William Shirer’s Rise and Fall of the Third Reich). The fact that so many people see this plan as socialist/communist shows just how similar German Fascism is to Soviet socialism.

There was no hard and fast blueprint for German Fascism. Hitler’s Mein Kampf is often rambling and it didn’t present any sort of detailed plan for what Hitler wanted to do other than killing the Jews and starting a war. Hitler had no trouble going before rich industrialists and promising them that he would end socialism so they would give him campaign money and then go before the working class and promise them socialism in order to win their votes. The best analysts can do is examine German Fascism as it was implemented and it was implemented with a great deal of socialism.

Apart from the theoretical private property (which isn’t really private if the government can tell you what you can and what you must do with it- as the Nazi government could) Nazi Germany was little different from the Soviet Union. I want people to realize these similarities so liberals can be taken to task for comparing conservatives to Nazis.

[ECW]

The Liberals on this board don't compare conservatives to Nazis.

Idiots, yes. Nazis, no.

[flaja]

The Liberals on this board don't compare conservatives to Nazis.


Then why have I seen conservatives associated with fascists in another thread? http://www.democracyforums.com/showthread.php?tid=7024&pid=80383&

[Questerr]

The Liberals on this board don't compare conservatives to Nazis.


Then why have I seen conservatives associated with fascists in another thread? http://www.democracyforums.com/showthread.php?tid=7024&pid=80383&


Because in the Venn diagram of politics Nazis = Fascists, but Not all Fascists = Nazis. Sometimes militaristic conservatives that advocate mass conscription = fascists instead.

[flaja]

The Liberals on this board don't compare conservatives to Nazis.


Then why have I seen conservatives associated with fascists in another thread? http://www.democracyforums.com/showthread.php?tid=7024&pid=80383&


Because in the Venn diagram of politics Nazis = Fascists, but Not all Fascists = Nazis. Sometimes militaristic conservatives that advocate mass conscription = fascists instead.


On what are you basing this conclusion? Israel has mandatory military service, but is Israel a fascist nation (at least to anyone who is not a bigot)? What exactly are the universal characteristics that all fascists have?

[Deadshot]

You know over the course of the last few years people all across the Conservative spectrum have done everything from call names to actually questioning peoples patriotism on the Left. So if you want to question the use of the term facist or Nazi I think you need to question one Bill O'Reilly a spokesperson for the far right and his description about a LIberal wesite called the Daily Kos.

We can go back and forth playing he said/she said, or we can simply say that each side has those who are either blatant idiots or get carried away at times. But I don't think that anyone here has compared Conservatives to Facist/Nazis, have they?

[ViolaLee]

I can only speak for my self and I didn't.

IMHO using the term Nazi casually, lessens the evil of the actual Nazis and disrespects the millions of people killed in that holocaust and war.

Fascist is a style of government. Fascist does not equal Nazi. Fascist government is made of corporate greed and putting the welfare of the billionaires over the regular citizen. That's why the Bush admin can be compared to a Fascist government.

[flaja]

I can only speak for my self and I didn't.

IMHO using the term Nazi casually, lessens the evil of the actual Nazis and disrespects the millions of people killed in that holocaust and war.

Fascist is a style of government. Fascist does not equal Nazi. Fascist government is made of corporate greed and putting the welfare of the billionaires over the regular citizen. That's why the Bush admin can be compared to a Fascist government.


What you describe is more corporatism than fascism. It is something that conservatives do not support. It is more in line with the laissez faire capitalism that libertarians advocate.

Under German (and as far as I know Italian) fascism corporations were subservient to the state. They could earn profits only as long as they served the state’s purpose. Under the system you describe corporations can make profit for profit’s sake and the government is subservient to the corporations.