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ClayBarham
08-15-2007, 07:06 PM
Those armed with all the facts, all the knowledge, all the reasoning intelligence, must certainly be able to control the world. Who, then, could possess all that information? It would appear that whoever seeks to run the world has a knowledge problem. Perhaps this is why those who have attempted the job have frozen time to the moment of conquest, as if all that there are no more discoveries to be had, all that could be invented and all that could be imagined have already been done. Dictatorships rule what people already created and experienced, not that which does not yet exist. This is the reason why the single, creative genius is the worst enemy of the state. He or she might just create some new idea or thing that challenges the accepted and well-established conditions and shake things up. That would undermine the dictator’s ability to manage.

If we get up in the morning and find all the relevant information are at hand, our situational preferences in synch with everyone else’s, the means of doing what needs doing readily available, all we need is a traffic cop. In short, government rules as a traffic cop, making sure we are on the proper path each day and doing the same thing. That assumes the man or woman who becomes the superior traffic cop has mastered all the innumerable possibilities of production, distribution and consumption sufficient to keep everyone functioning at the same level of speed and energy. Of course, knowing how life differs, this is not possible. Each human is at a different level of growth and adjustment. Each grows in a different environment, since there is no consistency in where we live as well as how we live.

It would be so easy, so egalitarian, if everyone lived in the same kind of space, with the same furniture. There would be no private property. If all wore the same clothing, traveled to and remained in their same workstations as long as they were able to work. Then, when old and infirm, they march off to the Kevorkian assisted suicide chambers. There would be no mixing males and females, except as rewards for good behavior. All children born would grow in the children’s barracks. Life under these conditions would be so predictable. Of course, this would apply only to the masses, as the elite managers and rulers would have to live a more interesting social life if expected to spend their lives guiding and maintaining the community.

Anything short of this kind of regimentation means the work of ruling the world becomes very stressful and full of conflicts. Individuals think and feel. They have differing tastes and appetites, interests, talents and skills. The way they are made is distressing to the rulers, because enough of them with similar desires may group together and challenge the ruler’s power to rule.
The ruler’s intervention into life and the freedom to exchange, between otherwise free people, leads to many unforeseen and unintended consequences. Those in the ruler’s cadre will find opportunities for personal profit. Hoarding as if some property is private will occur, and conflict will raise its ugly head when some discover other have more than they do. If the profits are great enough, some may combine as a palace coup and displace the ruler, putting another in charge. A well-trained palace guard may have to be formed to protect the new cabal from being displaced, leading to a military take-over by those with the weapons. As changes take place at the top, the level of information and knowledge once acquired may be lost, and the human community machine having been ruled by one will have to make undesirable changes for the other. This disturbs the functioning of community and may lead to rebellion, which, if successful, will turn the whole operation upside down.

It is apparent that no single person or group can have all the facts and knowledge, with which to guide and rule the multitude. Why even attempt it? Just let everyone do their own thing, as long as they do not harm another. If everyone would live within the laws everyone agrees to live by, there would be no need of human managers. For thousands of years, men have tried and failed to establish benevolent dictatorships where the most people could be happy, and it has never lasted. One would think, by now, men would finally give up and say, “Let the people be free.” However, they cannot do that. There is always a new face with a new plan that promises to do what others before could not do.

Only in America, in just under 400 years, has the idea of a free people running their own lives, free of dictatorship and rule of the many by the few, been tried. Its success is a matter of record, though some would change that record to promote the benefits of top-down rule. Wouldn’t it be nice if those who want to rule the many would just leave us alone and practice their black arts in the Old World, where they belong? Can’t we send the liberals back home to Europe?

CheesyMuslim
08-15-2007, 07:21 PM
Sorry bout that,

1. Here, here!!!!

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

ViolaLee
08-15-2007, 07:34 PM
Why is it always the wackos on political boards are always the right wingers?

LOL!

ClayBarham
08-15-2007, 07:38 PM
You mean that someone who is against tyranny, dictatorship, rule of the few over the many, communism, fascism and monarchy is a wacko? If that be the case, then I would be proud to be a wacko.

Just how do you arrive at that conclusion that anyone who disagrees with dictatorship is a wacko??????[/align]

ViolaLee
08-15-2007, 07:47 PM
I arrive at the conclusion that anyone who makes up outlandish predictions about the downfall of the country and lays the blame all on the liberals is a wacko.

I arrive at the conclusion that anyone who pretends that I arrive at the conclusion about disagreeing dictators has anything to do with what I said is a wacko.

I arrive at the conclusion that the wackos come mostly from the right by you and chessy's and the other righties posts on this board ;)

lily
08-15-2007, 11:22 PM
Clay, in your first paragraph you mentioned stagnation and thinking all discovories had been had and you end your post blaming this on Liberals, who you see as dictators.........yet you seem to forget that it's Liberals who want the field of science open the most, especially embryonic stem cell research, also to see if there is a scientific reason for global warming. It's the liberals who are open to finding the science of the origins of the universe.........

ClayBarham
08-16-2007, 03:44 PM
A scientist will hypothesize, imagine a cause and conclusion, then set out to prove it is correct or incorrect. I find the modern liberal has the hypotheses and decides it is true and correct without taking the time to investigate and prove it, and anyone who disagrees with the hypotheses is a wacko. If you have a conclusion in mind, say a desired state of community order, you come forth with an imagined means, need or cause, then do not take the time to prove it, you are acting immature, and that's how I see the modern liberal. Global Warming is a case in point, where a conclusion is established and a cause is hypothosized and never proven. The evidence does not point to any man-made cause for climate change in either direction, but those who claim it are called wackos because they challenge the hypotheses. In short, to the modern liberal, there is only one side to any issue, theirs, and all others are immediately wacko.

Truth_and_Power
08-16-2007, 03:56 PM
.. in conclusion, liberals are ruining america.

ClayBarham
08-16-2007, 06:31 PM
Yes, yes, you finally got it!

lily
08-17-2007, 01:41 AM
A scientist will hypothesize, imagine a cause and conclusion, then set out to prove it is correct or incorrect.

Ok, I'm with you so far.....

I find the modern liberal has the hypotheses and decides it is true and correct without taking the time to investigate and prove it,

........and here all this time, I thought the Liberals were the ones doing the science on this. So, I've been wrong all along and it's only Conservatists that are trying to prove it is wrong?

and anyone who disagrees with the hypotheses is a wacko. If you have a conclusion in mind, say a desired state of community order, you come forth with an imagined means, need or cause, then do not take the time to prove it, you are acting immature, and that's how I see the modern liberal.

......again, you seem to think that Liberals are just stating something, trying to shove it down your throat, without any scientific proof, and that's just not true.........if fact I see the opposite. I see Conservatives saying it's not real, with not too many facts to back them up.

Global Warming is a case in point, where a conclusion is established and a cause is hypothosized and never proven. The evidence does not point to any man-made cause for climate change in either direction, but those who claim it are called wackos because they challenge the hypotheses. In short, to the modern liberal, there is only one side to any issue, theirs, and all others are immediately wacko.

I don't know........you keep sayig the same thing over and over.......but let's get down to some real science.......embryonic stem cell research.

ClayBarham
08-17-2007, 07:00 PM
Go a step further and provide the same scientific investigations done in Germany on living people. Why settle for the embryo when you can have a fully grown body? Is that OK?

lily
08-18-2007, 04:15 AM
Go a step further and provide the same scientific investigations done in Germany on living people. Why settle for the embryo when you can have a fully grown body? Is that OK?


A little over-reactive Clay. I'm talking about embryos that will just be thrown away. Either way they are going to be "destroyed". Your way they get thrown in the garbage. My way they could save a life.

So in other words when you said that modern liberals will hypothosize and decide something is true without taking the steps to prove it is incorrect and in fact, makes that true of conservatives.

Josepha
08-18-2007, 09:54 AM
And you like Bush?:drool:

Big govt and big debt are the heart of conservative values - go on a shopping spree and leave the bill for the unborn to pay - meanwhile grow the govt 40%, deny local and state's rights and federalize anything you can. How could even your imaginary evil liberals possibly do worse? By your own standards the neocons are the disaster.:dork:



Those armed with all the facts, all the knowledge, all the reasoning intelligence, must certainly be able to control the world. Who, then, could possess all that information? It would appear that whoever seeks to run the world has a knowledge problem. Perhaps this is why those who have attempted the job have frozen time to the moment of conquest, as if all that there are no more discoveries to be had, all that could be invented and all that could be imagined have already been done. Dictatorships rule what people already created and experienced, not that which does not yet exist. This is the reason why the single, creative genius is the worst enemy of the state. He or she might just create some new idea or thing that challenges the accepted and well-established conditions and shake things up. That would undermine the dictator’s ability to manage.

If we get up in the morning and find all the relevant information are at hand, our situational preferences in synch with everyone else’s, the means of doing what needs doing readily available, all we need is a traffic cop. In short, government rules as a traffic cop, making sure we are on the proper path each day and doing the same thing. That assumes the man or woman who becomes the superior traffic cop has mastered all the innumerable possibilities of production, distribution and consumption sufficient to keep everyone functioning at the same level of speed and energy. Of course, knowing how life differs, this is not possible. Each human is at a different level of growth and adjustment. Each grows in a different environment, since there is no consistency in where we live as well as how we live.

It would be so easy, so egalitarian, if everyone lived in the same kind of space, with the same furniture. There would be no private property. If all wore the same clothing, traveled to and remained in their same workstations as long as they were able to work. Then, when old and infirm, they march off to the Kevorkian assisted suicide chambers. There would be no mixing males and females, except as rewards for good behavior. All children born would grow in the children’s barracks. Life under these conditions would be so predictable. Of course, this would apply only to the masses, as the elite managers and rulers would have to live a more interesting social life if expected to spend their lives guiding and maintaining the community.

Anything short of this kind of regimentation means the work of ruling the world becomes very stressful and full of conflicts. Individuals think and feel. They have differing tastes and appetites, interests, talents and skills. The way they are made is distressing to the rulers, because enough of them with similar desires may group together and challenge the ruler’s power to rule.
The ruler’s intervention into life and the freedom to exchange, between otherwise free people, leads to many unforeseen and unintended consequences. Those in the ruler’s cadre will find opportunities for personal profit. Hoarding as if some property is private will occur, and conflict will raise its ugly head when some discover other have more than they do. If the profits are great enough, some may combine as a palace coup and displace the ruler, putting another in charge. A well-trained palace guard may have to be formed to protect the new cabal from being displaced, leading to a military take-over by those with the weapons. As changes take place at the top, the level of information and knowledge once acquired may be lost, and the human community machine having been ruled by one will have to make undesirable changes for the other. This disturbs the functioning of community and may lead to rebellion, which, if successful, will turn the whole operation upside down.

It is apparent that no single person or group can have all the facts and knowledge, with which to guide and rule the multitude. Why even attempt it? Just let everyone do their own thing, as long as they do not harm another. If everyone would live within the laws everyone agrees to live by, there would be no need of human managers. For thousands of years, men have tried and failed to establish benevolent dictatorships where the most people could be happy, and it has never lasted. One would think, by now, men would finally give up and say, “Let the people be free.” However, they cannot do that. There is always a new face with a new plan that promises to do what others before could not do.

Only in America, in just under 400 years, has the idea of a free people running their own lives, free of dictatorship and rule of the many by the few, been tried. Its success is a matter of record, though some would change that record to promote the benefits of top-down rule. Wouldn’t it be nice if those who want to rule the many would just leave us alone and practice their black arts in the Old World, where they belong? Can’t we send the liberals back home to Europe?

ClayBarham
08-18-2007, 05:27 PM
Somehow, you see conservatives as conservatives see liberals, big spenders and taxers who simply want to control everyone's lives. So, you apparently don't like the spending and the taxes, so you should vote for those who promise to spend more and tax more. Good conclusions of the Lewis Carroll variety.