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View Full Version : Anti-smoking advocates call for non-profit tobacco seller


Alonzo
06-26-2006, 12:56 PM
Turning the tobacco industry into a non-profit or Crown agency could end tobacco marketing, some public health officials say.

The number of people smoking in Canada is down to about 22 per cent from 35 per cent a decade ago, but millions of Canadians remain hooked on cigarettes.

Public health officials are looking for ways to stop marketing that draws new smokers and undermines anti-smoking messages.

It's reasonable for corporations to use marketing and other tools to maximize profits, but not for companies that sell a harmful and addictive product, said Cynthia Callard, executive director of Physicians for a Smoke-Free Canada. The group aims to reduce tobacco-caused illness by cutting smoking and exposure to second-hand smoke.

Callard suggests it's time government buy out the tobacco industry and change its mandate from profit to public health.

"We anticipate by taking over the companies, voluntarily or involuntarily, and running them in the public interest, we would actually save governments and save the economy more money than it would cost to do this," Callard said in Halifax on Friday.

A non-profit agency, charged with ultimately putting itself out of business, would not try to increase the market for cigarettes the way the tobacco industry does.

Benjamin Kemball, president and CEO of Imperial Tobacco, isn't taking the idea seriously.

"I'm not sure that there's much support for governments taking over businesses, particularly businesses which are already heavily regulated by the government, and particularly business which are willing and eager to work with government on a lot of the issues that we face," Kembell said.

Tobacco companies now acknowledge the dangers of their product and share the concerns of anti-tobacco advocates on reducing the harm caused by smoking, he said.

There are precedents for the idea, such as in France and China, where governments own the tobacco industries.

If the change resulted in more people quitting, the initial cost to governments would pale compared to the billions now spent in health-care costs for smokers, agreed Dr. Robert Strang, the medical officer of health in Halifax.

"There'd have to be clearly a lot of political will to do that," said Strang. "But I think in the best interests of the health of the nation, I would certainly support. I think it would be reasonable that the government would take over an industry. "

Tobacco companies face a shrinking market and costly lawsuits, conditions that might make the idea more imaginable, Callard said.


http://www.cbc.ca/story/science/national/2006/06/23/tobacco.html

Too bad this won't succeed and spread to the u.s.[b]

PittsburghAfterDark
06-26-2006, 01:00 PM
Why is it too bad?

Roughly 70% of the selling price of a pack of cigarettes is taxation.

Do you think that tobacco farmers wouldn't switch crops if there were no free market for their product?

When is the last time anyone bought a pack of Chinese or French cigarettes?

Alonzo
06-26-2006, 02:47 PM
Switching crops is bad in what way?

Though the whole point is to take over the tobacco industry so that it is no longer profitable. And what you save in health care and increasing productive years (ie. more work, more taxes) make up for it. Even in the u.s. we lose plenty of money, since many people don't pay emergency bills and can't be turned away.

Nathan Brazil
06-26-2006, 05:55 PM
They're going to nationalize an industry they claim is bad for the citizens health (no argument about that), and then they're going to do what with it?

Oh, they're going to continue selling the unhealthy product but just stop advertising it?

Huh? Anyone believe that?

See what silliness happens when the government takes over one industry, for example, health care? It discovers that it has to take over other industries, like farming certain luxury crops and the importation thereof, in an attempt to reduce costs on the first industry they hijacked.

The government could reduce it's health care burden to zero if it found some sense and privatized it's nationalized health system. Then people that smoke could pay their insurance companies the premiums that smoking gives to health care costs, instead of spreading it out onto the non-smokers.

I wonder what Canada's going to do when they finally figure out that Big Macs cause heart disease?

Nathan Brazil
06-26-2006, 06:02 PM
Something seems to have eaten my post. Let me try to type it in again. I hate when that happens, it destroys the flow of thought and the re-write is usually a mere shadow of the original.

So Canada is going to nationalize their tobacco industry because tobacco use is costing the nationalized health care industry too much, eh?

Once the system is nationalized, they're allegedly only going to stop advertising tobacco and hope that will help reduce the number of new users getting addicted? Uh-HUH! Right.

You know, if they didn't have a nationalized health care system the government wouldn't have a budget problem with national health care, and individual smokers would be facing a crisis of insurance premiums that the rest of us could laugh at. So now we get to laugh at their whole country instead. Perfect.

What are the Canadians going to do when they discover that Egg McMuffins, with it's slice of Canadian bacon, contributes to heart disease?

Nathan Brazil
06-26-2006, 10:30 PM
Tobacco use is a personal choice and the government has no business getting involved.

Oh, wait, government took over the health care industry of Canada, so naturally it's running at a drastic loss, so of course the government now has a vested interest in taking over yet another industry and running that one to the ground as well, in the false name of saving the first one.

Wonder what happens when the goons in charge of Canada's health care system figure out that Egg McMuffins, with it's slice of Canadian bacon, contribute to heart disease?

longjonsilver
06-28-2006, 01:30 PM
That is my problem with the the legal status of cigarettes and alcohol. Individuals are legally allowed to do these things that harm there body but the problem is that it comes at the detriment of the tax payers who fund Medicaid and Medicare for those who do not have health insurance. When someone stagers into the emergency room with a heart attack that has occured by the self mutaliation of cigarette smoking then the hospital can't turn the person down, so they in turn pass the bill to the tax payers. Thats why I propose that cigarettes and alcohol should become illegal for all those without health insurance. We do it with automobiles (you can't drive unless you have car insurance), so why can't we do it with cigarettes and alcohol.

Alonzo
07-05-2006, 12:49 PM
Nathan, botht he u.s. and canada get stuck paying lots of money for health care, and Canada pays less than we do.

And there's always plenty of people who never pay in the u.s.

Nathan Brazil
07-05-2006, 01:35 PM
Does this thread work?

Nathan Brazil
07-05-2006, 01:40 PM
No, it does not.

I posted the three posts above a few days ago, and they're only just now showing up, and I've viewed this thread on two different computers on two different networks.

Now I've an e-mail telling me alonzomourning's posted a response, yet the thread only shows me the first 7 posts.

huh!

Well, alonzo, I can't even start to reply. I mean, your first sentence starts out apparently stating that American and Canadian health care systems get bitten by the costs tobacco users put on the system, and I can guess that you're arguing that these costs justify further depredations on the liberty of citizens. But you're wrong. Those higher costs merely indicate why governments shouldn't be running businesses.