Barry Bonds

[DANG]

Your thoughts on Bonds and the home run record

http://img255.imageshack.us/img255/7113/bondsek8.jpg

(CNN) -- San Francisco Giants slugger Barry Bonds is on the verge of passing Hank Aaron on the all-time home run list. Bonds caught Hammerin' Hank Saturday, hitting No. 755 over the left field wall of Petco Park in San Diego, California.

We asked CNN.com readers for their take on Bonds and his historic chase.
Whaddya Think?

[Truth_and_Power]

I don't see how this guy gets any respect and Ricky Williams gets none. Atleast ricky wasn't cheating.

[NortheastCynic]

Okay, let me preface what I say by dispelling the single most widespread myth about Barry Bonds: It has never been proven that he has taken steroids.

YES
IT
HAS

The Game of Shadows, a book published a few years back [illegally] made public grand jury testimony in which Bonds admitted to 'accidently' taking steroids [the cream and the clear] thinking they were something else...

Moving on.

I think Bonds should be erased from the record books and be banned permanently from baseball.
His career statistics should appear thusly:
Bonds, Barry
Batting Average: .000
RBIs: 000
HR: 000
Hits: 000

Sadly, Bud Selig, baseball's commissioner is one of the least honorable men in the world of sports and the MLB Players Union is one of the most corrupt unions on the planet [no exaggeration].

Go Red Sox!

-NC

[DANG]

Heres the LINK (http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/08/06/bonds.reader.feedback/index.html?eref=rss_topstories) for the OP

I say YES w/o asterix.

If the league were to move all fences back 20 feet to make HR's more more rare thereby more spectacular.... would they be obliged to put an asterix beside all previous Homers? Or move the goalposts closer in the NFL (for more frequent scoring)?

There were no rules against what Bonds is accused of. And he has not tested positive. How about all those NFL records broken with the aid of Cortizone. And...
Should Tiger Woods get an asterix because he had Eye Surgury? That is a medical enhancment.

Bonds used a cream that was not illegal... to speed up the healing of a wound. Get off his case. He is a champion!

A lot of people are prejudiced against him... they say he is arrogant. But, how many kiss their 2 fingers, touch their heart and point to God after they cross Home Plate?? Sounds pretty humble to me.

[NortheastCynic]

DANG, bro, what are you talking about?

The cream: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_cream

Is an anablic steroid; not only is it illegal in the MLB but is also illegal Federally. As is the Clear.

The clear: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_clear

Bonds used illegal/banned substances. The man doesn't deserve an asterisk, he deserves to be a ghost in the baseball world.

-NC

[Deadshot]

I agree with North East Cynic, though I'm willing to give him the asterisk.

But to be honest I felt like clicking on the "I don't care" option because since MLB doesn't care about this problem, especially with it's stars, I think Bonds is only one of many on the drugs.

It will be interesting to see how MLB treats these players when the Hall of Fame voting comes up. Do you address and punish cheating? You didn't for Don Sutton and Gaylord Perry who both admited to using spit balls, an illegal pitch.

I think in the very near future you'll see a break in the writers who vote for people getting in the Hall. Those who wish to keep baseball pure and those who just want to move on...

[DANG]

...., he deserves to be a ghost in the baseball world.Not if he was told these substances were Flaxseed oil.

Tetrahydrogestrinone (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetrahydrogestrinone) (often referred to as THG or "the clear") is an anabolic steroid. It has affinity to the androgen receptor and the progesterone receptor, but not to the estrogen receptor.[1] The drug has been considered a "designer drug", closely related to the banned anabolic steroids gestrinone and trenbolone,[2] and was banned by the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) at the end of 2003.[3]It was banned by the FDA in 2003. When was it banned by MLB?

[NortheastCynic]

I'm not entirely sure, I'll have to look it up for you.

Second, whether or not he believed they were flaxseed is irrelevant. He took performance enhancing drugs, period...Or at least, that's what he told a federal grand jury.

-NC

[Deadshot]

Not if he was told these substances were Flaxseed oil.

If he actually thought it was Flaxseed oil, he's guilty of being an idiot. Flaxseed oil, otherwise known as linseed oil, is used externally as a paint binder and wood finish! There is no evidence that it does anything externally to help in the healing process. Taken internally it is supposed to help fight heart disease, cancer and bowel problems.

Bonds has no defense, hence the reason he has used none.


It was banned by the FDA in 2003. When was it banned by MLB?


If banned by the FDA it's illegal to use and/or prescribe in the USA. Ergo, the MLB, being an entity of the USA, would need to do nothing - FDA ban would be a ban throughout the USA. It has only been during the last few years, 2005 & 2006, that the FDA has allowed certain "banned" drugs in to help with AIDS patients and virulent forms of cancer in an attempt to allow patients radical treatment.

Honestly, if you noticed the kind of changes occuring that Bonds must have questions need to have been asked.

BTW, being the millionaire that he is, do you really think he cares about his overall baseball reputation and/or legacy?

[NortheastCynic]

Exactly Deadshot, the MLB, like all companies and individuals within the borders of the US are subject to the federal laws thereof. MLB need not officially 'ban' a drug that is already illegal on a federal level.

Welcome to DemocracyForums by the way!

-NC

[DANG]

Exactly Deadshot, the MLB, like all companies and individuals within the borders of the US are subject to the federal laws thereof. MLB need not officially 'ban' a drug that is already illegal on a federal level.You keep arguing my point what am I supposed to do?
The FDA outlawed THG, then MLB followed up immediately with their own ban.... in Octfuckingtober of 2003.
http://www.cbc.ca/sports/story/2003/10/29/thg-mlb031029.html

[NortheastCynic]

DANG,
It was BANNED by the FDA and MLB in 2002.

It didn't become a steroid in Oct-fucking-tober 2002.

It was a steroid the moment it was created, it was only a federal crime to use/posess/sell it in 10-fucking/02.

The line of when or when it wasn't banned it arbitrary. It was a steroid. He took it. Therefore he should be erased from the record books.

-NC

[DANG]

I'm not entirely sure, I'll have to look it up for you.See my last post. It was outlawed AFTER he may have taken it. I guess we all know now.... what he may or may not have known then.

Second, whether or not he believed they were flaxseed is irrelevant. He took performance enhancing drugs, period...Or at least, that's what he told a federal grand jury.
You just lied in that statement. He didnt say he took them. He said he MAY HAVE BEEN GIVEN. You fudged his testimony... for your own gain.
See the Red:In the new millennium, major league baseball was shrouded in controversy over steroids. During an investigation of BALCO Laboratories, Bonds' grand jury testimony was illegally leaked and obtained by the media. In the testimony he allegedly admitted he may have unknowingly been given "the clear" and "the cream", claiming he was told the substances were flaxseed oil.[hr]
DANG,
It was BANNED by the FDA and MLB in 2002.I offerred a source to back up my facts. (Banned on Oct. 29, 2003)

Where is your source?

[NortheastCynic]

See my last post. It was outlawed AFTER he may have taken it. I guess we all know now.... what he may or may not have known then.Did you not catch my last post? Whether or not it was legal nor banned is irrelevant. It was what it was: a performance enhancing drug. The MLB as a private organization, has the right to do what it will to its employees who take performance enhancing drugs.

You just lied in that statement. He didnt say he took them. He said he MAY HAVE BEEN GIVEN. You fudged his testimony... for your own gain.
See the Red:Spare me, DANG. You can call it a 'lie' if it makes you happy. It wasn't. Let me ask you DANG, how do you 'maybe' take steroids? One would have to be incredibly naive to think that Bonds did not throw the 'maybe' in there to avoide directly confessing. Incredibly naive. But such was my opinion, not a lie.

I offerred a source to back up my facts. (Banned on Oct. 29, 2003)

Where is your source?Typo on my part. 2002 is what I meant to [and thought I did] type.

-NC

[DANG]

You did type 2002. Which is either a mistake or a fabrication....
because it is not a fact.
Thats why I am still waiting for your source.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Read carefully:
MLB.com story (http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20070725&content_id=2109733&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb)

Conte, who like Arnold, also plea bargained a short sentence that included prison time and house arrest, immediately released his own statement to the New York Times saying that Bonds never used steroids.

"The program I created for Barry was a comprehensive nutritional supplementation regimen and had nothing to do with 'the clear' or any other anabolic steroids," said Conte, who has never implicated Bonds in the scandal, although he said in a television interview that he watched track star Marion Jones inject herself with the performance-enhancing drug under his supervision.

In a subsequent interview with The Los Angeles Times, Conte told the newspaper that he didn't give steroids to Bonds.

"Why would a baseball player have needed an undetectable steroid when drug testing wasn't mandated until 2003?" Conte said. "To suggest that Barry's 2001 record of 73 home runs was assisted by 'the clear' is ridiculous and simply makes no sense."

Baseball didn't begin testing for performance-enhancing drugs at the Major League level until 2003, two years after Bonds set the single-season home run record.

[NortheastCynic]

Seriously DANG, did you read my last post?

I said it was a typo.

As in a mistake.

As in mea culpa.

As in, my bad.

As in....

-NC

[Stoner]

Not if he was told these substances were Flaxseed oil.



Oh give it up, son. He knew damn well it wasn't flaxseed oil.

He's a cheater. Period.

[Anti-Racism]

Bonds used illegal/banned substances. The man doesn't deserve an asterisk, he deserves to be a ghost in the baseball world.


It's what they do in the Tour de France (bye Lance, Rasmussen) so it's what baseball should do.

[DANG]

Like him or not, we have a new Home Run King!!

He could go the cycle. With a single and a double in his pocket, as well.

http://img358.imageshack.us/img358/4120/chroniclelogouv0.gif

Link (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/n/a/2007/08/07/sports/s205350D49.DTL)

Bonds Makes HR History With No. 756
Barry Bonds hit No. 756 to the deepest part of the ballpark Tuesday night, and hammered home the point: Like him or not, legitimate or not, he is baseball's new home run king.


Bonds broke Hank Aaron's storied record in the fifth inning, connecting on a 3-2 pitch from Washington's Mike Bacsik. Three days earlier, Bonds tied the Hammer with a shot to left-center in San Diego.


"Thank you very much. I got to thank all of you, all the fans here in San Francisco. It's been fantastic," he said shortly after crossing home plate, his godfather, Willie Mays, at his side.


"I got to thank my teammates. Through all of this, you've been strong and given me all the support I needed and I'll never forget it as long as I live."


After thanking his children, he said: "I'm glad I did it before you guys went to school."


To the Nationals, he said: "Thank you for understanding this game. It means a lot to me."


He saved his late father, Bobby, for last.


"To my dad," he said, his voice broke as he pointed to the sky. Through tears, he added, "Thank you for everything."


Conspicuous by their absence were the commissioner and Aaron himself.


Bud Selig was on hand for the tying homer, deciding to put baseball history ahead of the steroid allegations that have plagued the San Francisco Giants slugger. On this night, he sent an emissary, Major League Baseball executive vice president Jimmie Lee Solomon.


As for Aaron, he said all along he had no interest in being there whenever and wherever his 33-year-old mark was broken. He was true to his word, but he did offer a taped message of congratulations that played on stadium's video board.


"I move over now and offer my congratulations to Barry and his family," Aaron said.


Absent, too, were the fans who held up asterisk signs, sure that Bonds wasn't the real deal and that his power came from steroids.


Bonds didn't face such suspicions at AT&T Park, in front of a loyal, home crowd. Bonds has always denied knowingly using performance-enhancing drugs.


Yet even with Bonds at the top of the chart, fans will surely keep debating which slugger they consider the true home run champion. Some will continue to cling to Aaron while other, older rooters will always say it's Babe Ruth.


"It's all about history. Pretty soon, someone will come along and pass him," Mays said before the game.


A seven-time NL MVP, the 43-year-old Bonds hit his 22nd home run of the year. Bonds broke Mark McGwire's single-season record by hitting 73 in 2001 and while he's no longer such a force, opposing pitchers remain wary.

more... (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/n/a/2007/08/07/sports/s205350D49.DTL)My Hank Aaron signed bat, ball and card all just turned south.
But thats OK, Barry is worthy. :thumbsup:

[Labrocca]

Fine..Barry Bonds committed no "crime" nor broke any official MLB rules...hence he is still playing and not banned from the game.

Yet it's evident and proven he took these drugs which in fact enhanced his performance which in-turn allowed him to break Hank Aarons record.

Does this really matter anyways? I don't believe Baseball is the sport it once was and sport players are nothing more than overpaid athletes. The glory days of sports is over.

[Deadshot]

Does this really matter anyways? I don't believe Baseball is the sport it once was and sport players are nothing more than overpaid athletes. The glory days of sports is over.


I think that this is an excellent point and I'll go one better. If you are already a millionaire SEVERAL times over does it really matter to you if you're in the Hall of Fame or respected by fans? Bonds doesn't really get along with the media and has a tepid relationship with the fans anyway. I think he cheated, DANG thinks he didn't, fine. Either way this guy's made millions, Baseball is not the sport it once was, and even if he made it in the Hall of Fame we have some pretty nasty people in there already with whom he can share some space.

[DANG]

If you are already a millionaire SEVERAL times over does it really matter to you if you're in the Hall of Fame or respected by fans? Sure it does. Its the whole package. He has made a lot of money because he has drawn a lot of fans. I couldnt tell you who sponsors him on the marketplace... I dont pay much attention to ads. He is not the commercial creature that Michael Jorden or the Bicyclists are. Look at NASCAR, Jesus H, Look at those ads.
He has had his money woes, too. That tells me he has taken some bad chances.... I dont know what hes worth today. Its not as much as Tiger Woods (Are you demanding drug tests for him too? I REALLY want you to respond to that!) Have they changed the specs on the construction of golf clubs since Jack Niclaus, Sam Snead, Tommy Armour, Arnold Palmer and Lee Trevino (Who btw, was handy with a coke bottle for a putter) ?

Bonds doesn't really get along with the media and has a tepid relationship with the fans anyway. I would avoid the press too. They only dig for dirty laundry. Suiting up and showing up and swinging a heavy bat are really kinda boring. The media wants F#CKING DIRT, every F#CKING day. Cant blame him there.

I think he cheated, DANG thinks he didn't, fine. I dont claim to KNOW!!
http://img510.imageshack.us/img510/4011/prejudicemh0.gif

If they have a case against him.... wouldnt they have brought it by now?

[Fushar]

Exactly Deadshot, the MLB, like all companies and individuals within the borders of the US are subject to the federal laws thereof. MLB need not officially 'ban' a drug that is already illegal on a federal level.You keep arguing my point what am I supposed to do?
The FDA outlawed THG, then MLB followed up immediately with their own ban.... in Octfuckingtober of 2003.
http://www.cbc.ca/sports/story/2003/10/29/thg-mlb031029.html


So if you murder a person today, and tomorrow a new law is implemented making murder a crime, then by your logic you are not a criminal because you did it before it was put in the law?

[DANG]

Murder has always been illegal.

A better example would be using a cell phone while driving. Because people can kill others by doing it. But it is still legal in some places. Those places which have made it illegal... cannot charge people who talked on cell phones before it was outlawed. Unless they killed somebody. Because.... it has always been illegal to kill people.[hr]I am curious how the new Fuckover America Bill will fare for the bush crime family.
Its a bit off/on topic. It was illegal to spy on Americans before Cheney and Gonzo took over the WH. Then they made it legal. They could, by the same token, legalize murder.... thereby granting themselves pardons for all the Americans and foreigners they have murdered. Nifty, eh?

[PatrickHenry]

Barry Bonds is sorta arrogant, not nearly so heroically humble as Hank Aaron.

But I give him his props as the home run king of MLB. Hitting a ball thrown by a Major League pitcher is a challenge in itself. Swatting it out of the park is way over the top.

And as mentioned, there is no proof of his using illegal enhancements. Does he look like he had some steroids? Well, yeah, but it's possible to pump up without them.

Look, I can't prove that Dubya and his cronies brought down the WTC, but that's where the evidence points. Are you all ready to convict him? Then why BB? Arrogant as he is, he 's nowhere near as bad as the squatter in the White House.

He deserves his place in Cooperstown. He earned it.

[DANG]

Bonds launches a 757 out of the park. In the 1st inning.
http://img520.imageshack.us/img520/5260/bbtk8.jpg