Jewish Settlers In Palestine. Video

[December]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FzmzdCU0R6I&mode=related&search=

http://library.flawlesslogic.com/hebron.jpg

[jafar00]

The way these illegal settlers are allowed to act is criminal.

[December]

Israeli Settlers Destroy Palestinian Property

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=slX2kos299M&mode=related&search=

[preservanation]

This is a prime example of how people who feel oppressed behave.
The left will make that argument for the Muslims but not the Israelis.
Consistency and fairness is only a catchphrase and holds no real meaning in practice.

[Alonzo]

That's a funny statement preserve, and blatantly hypocritical. You criticize the left for doing the exact opposite of the right, which uses the argument for israeli's but not palestinians.

Though I don't want to comment on the video since I don't want to feed into the racist opinion it's being used to support.

[preservanation]

See how confused you are Zo?
Maybe you should invest in a collator to sort it all out.

[Alonzo]

So you condemn those who are pro-Israel and aren't very concerned with Palestinians? Or are you complaining about something else I said?

[preservanation]

No, I condemn those who give a pass to the Palestinians on the ground that they are oppressed, but never afford that same privilege to the Jews.
I bet, if asked, some Jews would consider themselves oppressed and persecuted.
History is replete with Jew-haters getting their way at the expense of the innocent Jewry.
Why do the Jews deserve all sort if indignation while their enemies thrive under the cover of the left?

[crimzonsol]

People use the arguement that what is happening is bad, can someone explain to me why this is bad? To me it seems everybody is yellling, but they have no idea what they are yelling.

[Alonzo]

No, I condemn those who give a pass to the Palestinians on the ground that they are oppressed, but never afford that same privilege to the Jews.


But not when the parties are flipped around. Got it.

[Labrocca]

Another video about those damn zionist jewish settlers.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-UPEci1epw

[December]

The Jews are there just because of some fairy tales which one can find in the Old Testament.
But the Bible is NOT history book. So, why did the Jews went to Palestine I have no idea.

Do you?

[PatrickHenry]

They were propagandized. They were terrorized and decimated by Nazis. They were led by Bolsheviks. They were supported by the Empires.

And they are blind to the fact that their ethnicity has evolved from the original Jews of 3,000 years ago.

Jews should go where they are welcome. For instance nearly every nation on earth BUT Palestine...

[December]

They were propagandized. They were terrorized and decimated by Nazis. They were led by Bolsheviks.

Most of the top Nazis and MANY soldiers were Jews, so why would German Jews terrorize themselves? :)

http://www.history.ucsb.edu/faculty/marcuse/classes/33d/projects/jewishlife/jewishsurvivalpix/RiggCov270pxh.jpg

http://www.amazon.com/Hitlers-Jewish-Soldiers-Descent-Military/dp/0700611789



And where is the prove of this terrorism by the way?... The fact the matter is - GERMAN JEWS DID NOT WANT TO LEAVE GERMANY AND GO TO LIVE IN A DESERT IN SOME PALESTINE.

And almost ALL Bolsheviks were Jews as well.
http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v14/v14n1p-4_Weber.html

I think we discussed it already...

---------------------
But my point was about the Bible. There is NO historical proof OF ANY KIND that Israel ever existed. Israel was set up by the Jewish bankers Rothschils to get THE Middle-eastern oil...

http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/515C7TX1W4L._AA240_.jpg

http://www.amazon.com/Adolf-Hitler-Founder-Israel-Jews/dp/0965752305

[jafar00]

"settlers" being "settlers". And this is how they treat international human right observers.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GSAvaYY-y7Q
http://youtube.com/watch?v=1I8i0-hb818
http://youtube.com/watch?v=fPXpL-Nydx4
http://youtube.com/watch?v=3ED7mAeIL3g[hr]http://youtube.com/watch?v=eYu9eSOhf7M
http://youtube.com/watch?v=Wx0X1gycCGQ

[Anti-Racism]

I think Israel should be for Jews, and Palestinians need to be relocated. It's not going to work any other way. I'd like to see open access to the holy sites for all three religions, but that's another issue.

[PatrickHenry]

Israel should be for Jews, and Palestinians need to be relocated.
Oh, OK. That's known as ethnic cleansing. A type of genocide. Good to have the picture on you AR...

[December]

Thank you for the videos, jafar00. I will post them in EVERY FORUM I KNOW...




Israel should be for Jews, and Palestinians need to be relocated.
Oh, OK. That's known as ethnic cleansing. A type of genocide. Good to have the picture on you AR...


Well, the world finally begins to understand what's going on in Palestine......
But there is nothing new here actually.

Let's open the Old Testament and read what Jewish God commands the Jews to do:

Deuteronomy, 20:10-16

When you march up to attack a city, make its people an offer of peace.

If they accept and open their gates, all the people in it shall be subject to forced labor and shall work for you. If they refuse to make peace and they engage you in battle, lay siege to that city.

When the Lord your God delivers it into your hands, put to the sword all the men in it. As for women, the children, the livestock and eveything else in the city, you may take these as plunder for yourselves.

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/english/doc/2005-02/01/xin_52020201085149265692.jpg

Palestinian women mourn over the body of a 10-year-old girl during her funeral in Rafah refugee camp January 31,2005. Israeli army gunfire killed Noran Deeb in a schoolyard in the southern Gaza Strip on Monday, witnesses said, in an incident that clouded a new spirit of Israeli-Palestinian cooperation.

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/english/doc/2005-02/01/content_414001.htm

[PatrickHenry]

December, you're being dishonest.

You can't use the Bible as a source for one argument and then say it is invalid for the next. If there is no historical evidence for Israel, then you can't say that they were genociders based upon the Bible...see?

[jafar00]

I think Israel should be for Jews, and Palestinians need to be relocated. It's not going to work any other way. I'd like to see open access to the holy sites for all three religions, but that's another issue.


Relocated? A fancy word for Genocide?

Palestine should be opened up, the prison walls, and guard towers demolished, and the Palestinian descendants of the canaanites who have live there for centuries should be allowed to return to their homes.

The Jews should go back to where they came from and those that stay, be willing to live in peace with the Christians and Muslims living there.

The way I would like Palestine to be is along the lines of Islamic Spain. Where Muslim, Jew and Christian worked side by side for the betterment of all human kind.

[December]

December, you're being dishonest.

You can't use the Bible as a source for one argument and then say it is invalid for the next. If there is no historical evidence for Israel, then you can't say that they were genociders based upon the Bible...see?


PatickHenry, I my first post I was referring to the Bible as to a book which has no historical value.
Quote - But the Bible is NOT history book.

And then I pointed out to the religious teachings of the Bible:
Let's open the Old Testament and read what Jewish God commands the Jews to do.

As you can see that Old Testament quote does not prove existence of Israel in the past but simply gives some instructions to the Jews.

http://www.palestinefacts.org

[PatrickHenry]

OK, so accusations of religious bias cut both ways, too. The Holy Books of both Muslims and Jews have some pretty awful stuff. It's how it is lived that counts.

Most Jews and most Muslims live peaceful lives, not wanting anyone to be hurt. They ignore the hateful passages of their books.

The Ultra-Orthodox Jews of the settlements are an anomaly, like the jihadi Muslims. I would like to hear the reasonable folks from both sides of this religious divide telling their radicals to shut up...

[crimzonsol]

I don't think that its the radicals on the jewish side atleast that are contributing to the problem. I think its the fact that everywhere Jews have lived its all ways somoneelses land, and eventually people try to kill them. I think its the fact that the finally have a place to call home somewhere were they don't have to worry about popular opinion swing towards tring to exterminate them. They don't want to give that up, they are tried of people trying to exterminate them and now they are willing to do anything to make sure that no one can kick them out of their home or suddenly decide that the Jewish race no longer deserves to live. I think that is why they can't just move or make peace, they never had any power, now that they have the power to make sure that no one ever attemps another holocaust I don't think they will ever give up that power with out fighting to the last.

[PatrickHenry]

So ...since they have their own secure home in Israel it makes sense that they settle on PALESTINIAN lands, huh?

Sometimes I wonder about people's comprehension...

[AnnEsthesia]

People were displaced so that they could have their 'homeland'. Yet somehow that is not good enough. They want more and feel they have not been given enough. I am not anti-israel, but shit, exactly when is enough enough and when exactly do they start to take responsibility for their own actions?

[Oedipus Rex]

Here's a link to put things into historical perspective.

http://www.masada2000.org/historical.html

[crimzonsol]

[/b][/quote]
People were displaced so that they could have their 'homeland'. Yet somehow that is not good enough. They want more and feel they have not been given enough. I am not anti-israel, but sh1t, exactly when is enough enough and when exactly do they start to take responsibility for their own actions?



I feel that the points you bring up are intresting and insightful, I shall try to deal with each of your points as I understand them (if I don't get one tell me). I may be wrong on some of my points or have my bias interfere with my observation of facts. I would like to invite anyone that finds a fault in my logic or facts that I do not represent fairly when I anwser to tell me in civil manner.

The Displacement Of The Palestinian People
The Want Of More Land
The Israelis Taking Responsibilty For Their Actions


First the displacement of the Palestinian people. I will not claim that what I know is right, but what I think caused the Palestinian people to flee The British Mandate of Palestine was when Syria, Egypt, Jordon, Iraq and Lebanon declared war on Israel after its formation.
In this war the Israelis commited several crimes against humanity against Palestinian towns and villages. Israel also expeled large numbers of Palestinian. I believe that Israel did this because people who start dancing in the street when one of your citizens are killed are not the kind of people you want in your country.
I believe these two things are the main reasons that the Palestinian people were displaced from Israel, a combination of fear and forced exile.
I agree with you that the displacement of the Palestinian people was immoral, but I believe that Israel did the right thing when they expeled them from their question, I WANT TO MAKE IT CLEAR THAT I AGREE WITH THE EXILE, BUT NOT WITH THE CRIMES THAT THE JEWISH POPULATION OF ISRAEL COMMITED AGAINST THE PALESTINIAN PEOPLE. I see no way for Israel to allow the return the Palestinian people and keep its Jewish and Non-Jewish people safe. I wish I could see a solution to the problem, I may not be able to because of my bias, so I will listen to RATIONAL ideas and try to evaluate them objectively.
I hope I help you understand my position on the displacement of The Palestinian People.

Second Jewish settlement on Palestinian land. What I know about some Jewish settlements on Palestinian land is that they where settled during the British occupation of the Ottoman Empire. I believe that these people, atleast the ones who bought their lands legitamitly do have some right to live there, on the other hand Israel is now a safe heavan for them and the Palestinian People also need those lands. The one obsticule to the solution of this problem is that Israel is a DEMOCRACY, which for those of you who are unclear on what that means DEMOCRACY MEANS THAT THE GOVERNMENT HAS TO BOW TO THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE NO MATTER WHAT THE INDIVIDUALS WHO MAKE UP THE GOVERNMENT PERSONAL PERSONALY FEEL ABOUT THE SETTLEMENT, FOR THEM DO CHANGE POLICY WITH OUT THE CONSENT OF THE PEOPLE OF ISRAEL WOULD BE TO CREATE A DICTATORSHIP, so since the people living in those settlements are Israeli they can make their vioce heard. Since the government wants to keep the most people happy as possibleusing the power granted by the people(The purpose of a DEMOCRATIC government, for those of you unaware if what a DEMOCRATIC government is)
I DO NOT AGREE WITH THE ISRAELI SETTLEMENT IN PALESTINIAN LANDS. I DO HOWEVER, THINK THAT THIS SETTLEMANT IS NOT GROUNDS FOR THE ABOLISHMENT OF THE LAND OF ISRAEL.

I completely agree that all Israelis not just the Jews, BUT ALL Israelis need to step up to the plate and take responsebilty for their actions and the effects they are having on the Palestinian people. They need to realise that WE ARE ALL HUMAN. The Israelis need to own up to:
-Deir Yassin massacre
Where between 100-120 civillians were slaughtered by 120 Irgun
(National Military Organization in the Land of Israel) and Lehi
(Fighters for the Freedom of Israel)
-Lydda Massacre
Unkown Number of dead, Unknown number of soldiers
-Abu Shusna Massacre
60-70 dead, Unknown number of soldiers
-Safsaf Massacre
50-70 killed
-Al-Dawayima massacre
80-100 killed

These are I know of, if you now of more please tell me.

JUST TO MAKE SURE NO ONE MISS QUOTES ME, I BELIEVE THAT ISRAEL SHOULD ADMIT TO THE MASSACRES THAT OCCURED AND RECIEVE PUNISHMENT AS PER INTERNATIONAL LAW. I AM NOT RATIONALIZING, JUSTIFING OR LEGITIMIZING WHAT HAPPENED, NOR DO I HOLD THE PALESTINIANS TO THE SAME STANDARD, I HOLD THIS STANDARD TO THE PEOPLE OF ISRAEL AND TO THE PEOPLE OF ISRAEL ONLY JEWISH OR NOT.





So ...since they have their own secure home in Israel it makes sense that they settle on PALESTINIAN lands, huh?

Sometimes I wonder about people's comprehension...


First My Apology To Patrik Henry
Patrik Henry I am profoundly sorry about the fact that I was unclear as to what I was writing about I hope you can forgive me for not being clear on what I was trying to tell you about. Now that I read over what I wrote it is clear to me that I was at fault for not being specific about how the information that I added was relevent to the discussion are ready taking place. I can see how your comprehension of my thoughts would be impossible due to my error of not explicitly explaining how my thoughts should be interpreted and evaluated. I hope to rectify that with this post I am sorry if I am unable to succesfully tell you how my post was to contribute to this disscusion. If I am unable to I hope you can find it in your heart to give me another chance.
Once again I am truely sorry.

Now for the explanation of my previous post so that this disscusion can move foreward and hopefully reach an understanding.

I stated my thoughts on WHY Jewish Israelis act in a way that seems to be irrational when compared to people who can feel secure in their home, people who nothing of feeling others hate, people who think that they can understand what Jews go through daily. I IN NO WAY AM TRYING TO LEGITIMIZE WHAT IS HAPPPENING IN ISRAEL. I am trying to explain WHY I believe it is happening.


Just as a note, I support Israel because my family no longer exists due to the holocaust and I'll be damned if I'm going to let that happen to my family.

[PatrickHenry]

You're a Jew, crimzonsol?

There are many Jews who support, many who don't support Israel. I could understand a Jew choosing either course.

I am pleased that you recognize some of the atrocities committed by the generation after WW2 in Palestine and in the war which took place in 1948. If you really would like to hear some of the historical complexity, please read Ilan Pappé's book, The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine. He's an Israeli Jew who's an academic historian. While he is loyal to his nation, he asserts there is much to atone for in the events since the coming of Zionism. This book is a real eye-opener, but it takes a good bit of courage to read it.

Taking other people's land and forcing them out is a form of genocide. I would think that Jews would be more sensitive than most to that crime. Just because it happened to you doesn't mean that you will avoid it or condemn it if it suits your interests later. You must be vigilant.

Look closely and condemn injustice...

[crimzonsol]

We do agree that taking the Illegaly and forcing the natural Population is an evil. I believe that this evil it does not justify the abolishment of a country. Unfortunatly Jews have been harden against that crime due to the same reason I support Israel, No one is ever going to do that do us again no matter the cost. Your point about avoiding it and condeming it is valid, although I believe that avoiding and condeming it is political rather than moral.

[jafar00]

So, while locking up the Jews in concentration camps, and starving them to death in WWII was immoral and despicable, why does it somehow become justified to do exactly the same to the Palestinians.?

They are being walled off into small "enclaves" or large concentration camps complete with the barbed wire and guard towers. To top it off, they are being hit with embargos and sanctions to starve them and collectively punish them.

How can you support Israel, Crimzonsol, when they are doing exactly the same despicable things to the Palestinians as was done to your family by the Germans all those years ago? Surely "Never Again" applies to other people too?

[Survivor]

I really do not know the reason why some would want to deliberately try to antagonize others by wearing clothing of a religion that is symbolic of the oppression declared by others while in the land of the country of an obvious adverse view.

On the other hand, the nazis and the Palestinians get blamed for various types of repression of the Jews. Why can't people practice their religion in private and let others do the same?

[jafar00]

On the other hand, the nazis and the Palestinians get blamed for various types of repression of the Jews.


Please clarify. Palestinian repression of the Jews? Can you give an example of it?

[Alonzo]

So, while locking up the Jews in concentration camps, and starving them to death in WWII was immoral and despicable, why does it somehow become justified to do exactly the same to the Palestinians.?

They are being walled off into small "enclaves" or large concentration camps complete with the barbed wire and guard towers. To top it off, they are being hit with embargos and sanctions to starve them and collectively punish them.

How can you support Israel, Crimzonsol, when they are doing exactly the same despicable things to the Palestinians as was done to your family by the Germans all those years ago? Surely "Never Again" applies to other people too?


That's going way too far. Soldiers have been punished for harming civilians and it is not Israeli policy to intentionally harm individual civilians. The same couldn't be said for the nazi's. There is no intentional harm to children, there is no intentional starvation, there is no intentional destruction of families, no Israeli perpetrated mass executions of civilians and their is no intention to rid that land of Palestinians or to rid Israel of them. The government has no policy and not outright desire to do those things, and all those things were government supported nazi policy.

Now are there some irresponsible soldiers and commanders? Yes. Is enforcement of military rules often lax? Yes. Does Israel often show disregard for civilians? Yes. But that's a far cry from the nazi's, Pol Pot and other genocidal regimes throughout history.

I really do not know the reason why some would want to deliberately try to antagonize others by wearing clothing of a religion that is symbolic of the oppression declared by others while in the land of the country of an obvious adverse view.


So people should not wear their required or recommended religious attire when in certain areas?

Palestinian repression of the Jews? Can you give an example of it?


There were multiple incidents of sizeable attacks on Jews in the run up to the birth of Israel, primarily due to the increasing push for a Jewish state. I'm also not aware of Palestinians sentencing someone to prison, or even attempting to, for killing a Jew.

[crimzonsol]

So, while locking up the Jews in concentration camps, and starving them to death in WWII was immoral and despicable, why does it somehow become justified to do exactly the same to the Palestinians.?

They are being walled off into small "enclaves" or large concentration camps complete with the barbed wire and guard towers. To top it off, they are being hit with embargos and sanctions to starve them and collectively punish them.

How can you support Israel, Crimzonsol, when they are doing exactly the same despicable things to the Palestinians as was done to your family by the Germans all those years ago? Surely "Never Again" applies to other people too?



Jafar00, you ask good questions that I will try to anwser, note thought that this is only my opinion and I am Human.

The anwser to your first questions is IT IS NOT. I may have tried to justify it before, but that was because I was being protective, I wanted so much to believe that I had a safe place to be, that I was willing to say: Fuck the Palestinians. You may think worse of me for this, but I will not hide behind a lie. Since then I have been to Israel and I saw what was happening to both the Jewish population of Israel and the Palestinian People. I have since changed my opinions on Israel, but I don't think I can ever not support Israel because despite all thats happening I actually felt safe there. I will be the first to say that Israel has its faults and that they need to be fixed, but I will be the last to say that Israel should be abolished. I really do not know how to explain my feelings about Israel other than to say that I hope One day I will be able to change the situation or if failing that that someone can help both my people and yours Jafar00. Anyway back on topic to about the situation of the Palestinian Settlements I have to say That Althoght The Situation They Face Is Inhumane I would not go so far to say that they are living in concentration camps. ( Look at me, I'm argueing wether of not they are living in concentration camps or inhumane conditions, but not with the idea that they are locked up)
I really do not know what to do about it that is fair to both sides and good enough for both populations to accept. I wish I could give you more.

The reason would be family, I am sorry to everyone, but when it comes to my family I don't care about what has to be sacrificed, even if its not mine to scarifice, to keep them safe. I do not know if this makes me immoral or human. Other than that I have very few reasons why I support Israel. I probably support Israel because I was indoctrinated into the zionist belief from an early age, I also do not completely believe the Palestinians when they claim things(probably a result of my upbringing).


On the other hand, the nazis and the Palestinians get blamed for various types of repression of the Jews. Why can't people practice their religion in private and let others do the same?


Power, people want power and so are willing to manipulate people to get it, they lie to their followers or they say you will not be saved unless you do such and such, It happens in every religion, because like what is happening With Israeli Jews and maybe all Jews is that, when people feel threatened they are willing to do anything. Religion is a very good tool for doing this, just say that these people are trying to convert your children and thus eliminate any chance that they have to enter Hevean or what ever you believe.



That's going way too far. Soldiers have been punished for harming civilians and it is not Israeli policy to intentionally harm individual civilians. The same couldn't be said for the nazi's. There is no intentional harm to children, there is no intentional starvation, there is no intentional destruction of families, no Israeli perpetrated mass executions of civilians and their is no intention to rid that land of Palestinians or to rid Israel of them. The government has no policy and not outright desire to do those things, and all those things were government supported nazi policy.

Now are there some irresponsible soldiers and commanders? Yes. Is enforcement of military rules often lax? Yes. Does Israel often show disregard for civilians? Yes. But that's a far cry from the nazi's, Pol Pot and other genocidal regimes throughout history.


It is true that we are no Nazis, but we are acting in a way that is immoral. We do have to stop this is there is any chance for Israel to have peace, we can never get rid of the blood on our hands, and neither can they, ALL WE CAN DO IS MAKE SURE WE DO NOT ADD TO THE BLOOD ON OUR HANDS EITHER OF US.[/quote]

[Survivor]

On the other hand, the nazis and the Palestinians get blamed for various types of repression of the Jews.


Please clarify. Palestinian repression of the Jews? Can you give an example of it?

jafar00, I was trying to say that each side of the situation believes they are within their rights, and each have reasons for their behavior, whether justified nor not.

I have heard comments against the German race by those who were not responsible, even now, generations later, those of German ancestry get blamed for WWII atrocities. There were those of other nationalities who were persecuted including some of their own race and many other Europeans. Today, the Palestinians want their own territory currently occupied by the Jews. So, the situation continues, perhaps because there is no closure about whether Ishmael or Isaac was the chosen son.

[jafar00]

Soldiers have been punished for harming civilians and it is not Israeli policy to intentionally harm individual civilians.

How many examples can you cite of Israeli soldiers being punished for their crimes?

How about this little 13 year old girl called Iman?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,2763,1643573,00.html

and I quote the Captain who emptied his rifle's magazine into her..

"This is commander. Anything that's mobile, that moves in the zone, even if it's a three-year-old, needs to be killed. Over."

<sarcasm>Sure, not Israeli policy to intentionally harm civilians.</sarcasm>


The same couldn't be said for the nazi's. There is no intentional harm to children, there is no intentional starvation, there is no intentional destruction of families,

The ongoing blockade, is starving them intentionally and harms the children many of whom try to survive on a diet of stale bread and tea.

no Israeli perpetrated mass executions of civilians and their is no intention to rid that land of Palestinians or to rid Israel of them.

I can't choose one or two instances to point out, there are hundreds. Here is a list.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=israeli+massacres&btnG=Google+Search


Does Israel often show disregard for civilians? Yes. But that's a far cry from the nazi's, Pol Pot and other genocidal regimes throughout history.


"There is no such thing as a Palestinian people... It is not as if we came and threw them out and took their country. They didn't exist."
-- Golda Meir, statement to The Sunday Times, 15 June, 1969.


"We walked outside, Ben-Gurion accompanying us. Allon repeated his question, What is to be done with the Palestinian population?' Ben-Gurion waved his hand in a gesture which said 'Drive them out!"
-- Yitzhak Rabin, leaked censored version of Rabin memoirs, published in the New York Times, 23 October 1979.

"[The Palestinians] are beasts walking on two legs."

-- Israeli Prime Minister Menachem Begin, speech to the Knesset, quoted in Amnon Kapeliouk, "Begin and the 'Beasts,"' New Statesman, June 25, 1982.


"(The Palestinians) would be crushed like grasshoppers ... heads smashed against the boulders and walls."
-- Isreali Prime Minister (at the time) Yitzhak Shamir in a speech to Jewish settlers New York Times April 1, 1988

"Israel should have exploited the repression of the demonstrations in China, when world attention focused on that country, to carry out mass expulsions among the Arabs of the territories."
-- Benyamin Netanyahu, then Israeli Deputy Foreign Minister, former Prime Minister of Israel, speaking to students at Bar Ilan University, from the Israeli journal Hotam, November 24, 1989.


"If we thought that instead of 200 Palestinian fatalities, 2,000 dead would put an end to the fighting at a stroke, we would use much more force...."
-- Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Barak, quoted in Associated Press, November 16, 2000.

"It is the duty of Israeli leaders to explain to public opinion, clearly and courageously, a certain number of facts that are forgotten with time. The first of these is that there is no Zionism, colonialization, or Jewish State without the eviction of the Arabs and the expropriation of their lands."

-- Ariel Sharon, Israeli Foreign Minister, addressing a meeting of militants from the extreme right-wing Tsomet Party, Agence France Presse, November 15, 1998.



There were multiple incidents of sizeable attacks on Jews in the run up to the birth of Israel, primarily due to the increasing push for a Jewish state.

Can you point out a few incidents? Is defending yourself from an aggressive invasion, repressing the invaders?
In your logic, the Iraqis are guilty of repression of US troops?

[preservanation]

Modern day Nazis
unite here![hr]BTW,
Just because someone dons a yarmulke does not make that person a a Rabbi!

If I say I'm a Muslim and denounce BINLADIN, Does it make it so, for all muslims?


(no)[hr]Short sighted, insipid little children wouldn't even fall for this ploy.

[Alonzo]

How many examples can you cite of Israeli soldiers being punished for their crimes?

How about this little 13 year old girl called Iman?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,2763,1643573,00.html

and I quote the Captain who emptied his rifle's magazine into her..

"This is commander. Anything that's mobile, that moves in the zone, even if it's a three-year-old, needs to be killed. Over."

<sarcasm>Sure, not Israeli policy to intentionally harm civilians.</sarcasm>

Settlers arrested for beating a palestinian farmer: Police on Thursday arrested 10 youths from the West Bank settlement of Hashmonaim who are suspected of attacking and beating local Palestinians harvesting olives.

Three Palestinians filed complaints with police after they were attacked while working in orchards adjacent to Hashmonaim, which is located near Modi'in.

Police arrived on the scene and arrested 10 suspects. A search revealed the young settlers were carrying a knife, two saws, two hammers, a hoe and brass knuckles.


http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/774011.html

Soldier arrested:

Police and the Shin Bet security service arrested IDF soldier Yevgeny Grossman overnight Friday on suspicion of involvement in a Jewish terror case. His remand was extended by five days Friday.

Grossman, a 22-year-old Ashdod resident, denied being involved in bombing Israeli-Arab targets in Haifa. When asked if he hates Arabs, he told the Haifa Magistrate's Court, "I can tell you one thing: Everyone who is not linked to terror attacks has the same rights as we do."

Haifa resident Eliran Golan, also 22, is suspected of placing explosivs near Arab targets in the northern coastal city, after he prepared explosive devices and placed them in various locations in Haifa, including a mosque.


http://newsmine.org/archive/war-on-terror/israel/mossad/idf-soldier-arrested-in-jewish-terror-case.txt

That's two more arrests than I've seen Palestinians make against those who harm Jews.



The ongoing blockade, is starving them intentionally and harms the children many of whom try to survive on a diet of stale bread and tea.

[quote]

I can't choose one or two instances to point out, there are hundreds. Here is a list.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=israeli+massacres&btnG=Google+Search

Sabra and Shatila were no perpetrated by Israeli's. You can say they allowed them, but they did not commit the action themselves. That also was in Lebanon. The other incidents that occurred in Palestinian territories involved collateral damage. Sometimes the kind where you have one terrorist in a crowd of 50 civilians, but still, the civilians weren't the target.


"There is no such thing as a Palestinian people... It is not as if we came and threw them out and took their country. They didn't exist."
-- Golda Meir, statement to The Sunday Times, 15 June, 1969.

Doesn't support an attempt to eradicate them, besides it's a different era and shortly after a war.

"We walked outside, Ben-Gurion accompanying us. Allon repeated his question, What is to be done with the Palestinian population?' Ben-Gurion waved his hand in a gesture which said 'Drive them out!"
-- Yitzhak Rabin, leaked censored version of Rabin memoirs, published in the New York Times, 23 October 1979.

The first P.M. and member of a terrorist organization. Out of power in 1953.

"[The Palestinians] are beasts walking on two legs."

-- Israeli Prime Minister Menachem Begin, speech to the Knesset, quoted in Amnon Kapeliouk, "Begin and the 'Beasts,"' New Statesman, June 25, 1982.

No more hatred than that directed against Israeli's.

"(The Palestinians) would be crushed like grasshoppers ... heads smashed against the boulders and walls."
-- Isreali Prime Minister (at the time) Yitzhak Shamir in a speech to Jewish settlers New York Times April 1, 1988

Would be if? Obviously the context is missing as the wording even alludes to something else.

"Israel should have exploited the repression of the demonstrations in China, when world attention focused on that country, to carry out mass expulsions among the Arabs of the territories."
-- Benyamin Netanyahu, then Israeli Deputy Foreign Minister, former Prime Minister of Israel, speaking to students at Bar Ilan University, from the Israeli journal Hotam, November 24, 1989.

Did not hold the P.M. office at the time, and would not for years to come. Besides, this does not show that such a policy would actually have been implemented since the P.M. is not a dictator.

"If we thought that instead of 200 Palestinian fatalities, 2,000 dead would put an end to the fighting at a stroke, we would use much more force...."
-- Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Barak, quoted in Associated Press, November 16, 2000.

So the goal here is to end fighting. Point?

"It is the duty of Israeli leaders to explain to public opinion, clearly and courageously, a certain number of facts that are forgotten with time. The first of these is that there is no Zionism, colonialization, or Jewish State without the eviction of the Arabs and the expropriation of their lands."

-- Ariel Sharon, Israeli Foreign Minister, addressing a meeting of militants from the extreme right-wing Tsomet Party, Agence France Presse, November 15, 1998.


"Facts forgotten in time", not advocating future policy.


Can you point out a few incidents? Is defending yourself from an aggressive invasion, repressing the invaders?
In your logic, the Iraqis are guilty of repression of US troops?


In total, 67 Jews were murdered in Hebron; 59 died during the riots and 8 more succumbed to their wounds later. The remaining community were placed on trucks and delivered to Jerusalem and all their property was seized by the Arabs.[3] Most of dead were Ashkenazi men, but there were also a dozen women and three children under the age of three. Seven of the victims were yeshiva students from the United States and Canada. Dozens of people were wounded, including many women and children. Several cases of rape, mutilation and torture were reported.[2]

All of the officials in Hebron itself were Arabs, and of its 40 policemen, only one was a Jew. Raymond Cafferata, the Assistant District Superintendent of the Palestine Police Force, had at his command 18 mounted policemen and 15 foot, the latter old men and of little use. On the early afternoon of Friday, August 23, upon hearing from car-drivers of fighting in Jerusalem, Cafferata deployed special pickets to report any unusual movement from the city and issued a request to headquarters for reinforcements. Intending to travel to Jerusalem, a crowd of 700 gathered at the city's central bus station, and one man gave a speech. Cafferata addressed the crowd, trying to calm them by denying anything happened in Jerusalem. He then took eight mounted officers to patrol the Jewish homes, where he encountered the city's Rabbi, Yaakov Yosef Slonim. The Rabbi pleaded with him for protection, while he came under a hail of stones from an Arab crowd. Cafferata told him and other Jews he came across to return to stay in their homes. After the Rabbi had obliged, Cafferata tried to disperse the crowd using clubs.[2]

At 4:00 pm, an Arab crowd began gathering outside the Hebron Yeshiva and throwing stones through the windows. Only two people were inside, a student and the sexton. Upon being hit, the student tried to leave to find himself facing the Arab crowd, who grabbed him and stabbed him to death; the sexton survived by hiding in a well. Some hours later a group of mukhtars came to Cafferata. They relayed that the Mufti had told them to take action or be fined due to the 'Jewish slaughter of Arabs' in Jerusalem. Raymond Cafferata promised that all was well and bid them return to their villages. He slept in his office that night.[2]

Early on Saturday a crowd armed with staves and axes appeared in the streets and stoned to death two Jewish boys. Cafferata shot two of the mob and emptied his revolver into the crowd, but his saddle slipped and he fell to the ground, whereupon the crowd began attacking every Jewish house. Cafferata instructed his men to fetch rifles and to open fire, which they did, dispersing a portion of the crowd, but some of the remaining rioters, shouting "on to the Ghetto", managed to break through the pickets. Cafferata continued shooting, hitting many of the rioters, but his efforts were in vain; repeated calls for reinforcements from Jerusalem, Jaffa and Gaza did not produce help in time. Both Jewish and Arab businesses in the Bazaar were looted.[4] A consignment of police was sent from Jerusalem but was delayed by other violence on the way to Hebron and arrived hours too late. This later became the source of considerable acrimony.[2]


A man reflecting on the aftermath of the pogromCafferata testified to the Commission of Enquiry in Jerusalem on 7 November that he had seen an Arab cutting a child's head with an axe. Behind him was an ex-police-constable standing over a woman with a dagger in his hand. Cafferata shot the assailant, who shouted "Your Honor, I am a policeman". The Times reported Cafferata's evidence to the Commission that "until the arrival of British police it was impossible to do more than keep the living Jews in the hospital safe and the streets clear [because he] was the only British officer or man in Hebron, a town of 20,000".[5]

Many Jews survived by hiding in their Arab neighbors' houses, while others survived by taking refuge in the British police station at Beit Romano on the outskirts of the city. The surviving Jews were later evacuated to Jerusalem. One third of the killed were students of the Hebron yeshiva. After the massacre, the remainder of the yeshiva was also moved to Jerusalem.[2]

On September 1, Sir John Chancellor condemned "the atrocious acts committed by bodies of ruthless and bloodthirsty evildoers... murders perpetrated upon defenceless members of the Jewish population... accompanied by acts of unspeakable savagery."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1929_Hebron_massacre

[jafar00]

How many examples can you cite of Israeli soldiers being punished for their crimes?

How about this little 13 year old girl called Iman?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,2763,1643573,00.html

and I quote the Captain who emptied his rifle's magazine into her..

"This is commander. Anything that's mobile, that moves in the zone, even if it's a three-year-old, needs to be killed. Over."

<sarcasm>Sure, not Israeli policy to intentionally harm civilians.</sarcasm>

Settlers arrested for beating a palestinian farmer: Police on Thursday arrested 10 youths from the West Bank settlement of Hashmonaim who are suspected of attacking and beating local Palestinians harvesting olives.

Three Palestinians filed complaints with police after they were attacked while working in orchards adjacent to Hashmonaim, which is located near Modi'in.

Police arrived on the scene and arrested 10 suspects. A search revealed the young settlers were carrying a knife, two saws, two hammers, a hoe and brass knuckles.


http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/774011.html


Settlers arrested. Then what?
Imprisoned?
Charged with something?
Let off with a wrist slap?

Their homes Bulldozed while they are still inside?
Their entire community surrounded by tanks as helicopters rain down rockets onto them?

Oops, disregard the last two punishments. They are reserved for Palestinians.



Soldier arrested:

Police and the Shin Bet security service arrested IDF soldier Yevgeny Grossman overnight Friday on suspicion of involvement in a Jewish terror case. His remand was extended by five days Friday.

Grossman, a 22-year-old Ashdod resident, denied being involved in bombing Israeli-Arab targets in Haifa. When asked if he hates Arabs, he told the Haifa Magistrate's Court, "I can tell you one thing: Everyone who is not linked to terror attacks has the same rights as we do."

Haifa resident Eliran Golan, also 22, is suspected of placing explosivs near Arab targets in the northern coastal city, after he prepared explosive devices and placed them in various locations in Haifa, including a mosque.


http://newsmine.org/archive/war-on-terror/israel/mossad/idf-soldier-arrested-in-jewish-terror-case.txt

That's two more arrests than I've seen Palestinians make against those who harm Jews.


I couldn't find anything to add to that like if he had been convicted and sentenced or something, but I did find the following...

Israeli police are hunting for a third member of a suspected Jewish terrorist cell. Eliran Golan, a Haifa man arrested last week on suspicion of planting bombs targeting Israeli Arabs, had his custody extended by six days on Tuesday while investigations continue. A second man, Yevgeny Grossman of Ashdod, is under arrest as Golan's alleged partner. Police sources said the two are believed to have had another accomplice, who is still at large. Golan is believed to have tried to kill an Israeli Arab member of Knesset last year.

So it appears he may not have been arrested, had he not tried to kill a Knesset member?? Maybe that was the real reason he was arrested?

Back to your original article, it mentions a woman wounded in one of Golan's Mosque bombings. It's also quite revealing.

Woman wounded in mosque bombing not recognized as terror victim
Six months ago, Haaretz reported the woman who was wounded at the Haifa mosque bombing, Jamila Agbariyah, had not been recognized by the National Insurance Institute as a terror victim.

The NII stated that even if police prove the attack was an act of terror, she would not be eligible for compensation, because the law does not recognize attacks carried out by Jews as hostile terrorist activity.


The ongoing blockade, is starving them intentionally and harms the children many of whom try to survive on a diet of stale bread and tea.



I can't choose one or two instances to point out, there are hundreds. Here is a list.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=israeli+massacres&btnG=Google+Search


Sabra and Shatila were no perpetrated by Israeli's. You can say they allowed them, but they did not commit the action themselves. That also was in Lebanon. The other incidents that occurred in Palestinian territories involved collateral damage. Sometimes the kind where you have one terrorist in a crowd of 50 civilians, but still, the civilians weren't the target.


Who ordered the Phalanges in to do a bit of revenge killing? None other than Ariel Sharon. Saying they only let them in is a Whitewash. They were ordered in to the camps and Sharon knew exactly what would happen.


"There is no such thing as a Palestinian people... It is not as if we came and threw them out and took their country. They didn't exist."
-- Golda Meir, statement to The Sunday Times, 15 June, 1969.

Doesn't support an attempt to eradicate them, besides it's a different era and shortly after a war.


After a war? Excuses. Just one example of a long list of Israeli politicians, policy makers mentioning their intentions to wipe out or drive off the Palestinians.

"We walked outside, Ben-Gurion accompanying us. Allon repeated his question, What is to be done with the Palestinian population?' Ben-Gurion waved his hand in a gesture which said 'Drive them out!"
-- Yitzhak Rabin, leaked censored version of Rabin memoirs, published in the New York Times, 23 October 1979.


The first P.M. and member of a terrorist organization. Out of power in 1953.


But he was in power and this is how he thinks.

"[The Palestinians] are beasts walking on two legs."

-- Israeli Prime Minister Menachem Begin, speech to the Knesset, quoted in Amnon Kapeliouk, "Begin and the 'Beasts,"' New Statesman, June 25, 1982.


No more hatred than that directed against Israeli's.


For good reason.

"(The Palestinians) would be crushed like grasshoppers ... heads smashed against the boulders and walls."
-- Isreali Prime Minister (at the time) Yitzhak Shamir in a speech to Jewish settlers New York Times April 1, 1988


Would be if? Obviously the context is missing as the wording even alludes to something else.


Ok, I'll give you the missing context argument there, so here is some..

Israeli Defense Minister Yitzhak Rabin announced that Israeli civilians have the same authority as soldiers to shoot. He added that soldiers need not fire warning shots before shooting Palestinians. [13f] Newsweek was more explicit: “The decree meant Israeli soldiers could shoot to kill Palestinian youths ... Yitzhak Rabin [was] effectively deputizing settlers.” [13g] The decision, according to Newsweek, would “open the floodgates of the 60,000 settlers’ pent-up frustration [sic].” It was not long before an attack occurred. On April 6, settlers engaging in a clear provocation shot in cold blood a Palestinian working in his field outside the village of Beita. Attention, however, focused on the death of Tirza Porat, a 15-year-old settler girl among the group. The settlers reported Tirza Porat had been stoned to death by the Palestinian villagers, but an army autopsy report revealed she had been shot in the head by the Kahane follower acting as her nominal guard. [Rabbi Meir Kahane is the founder of the Jewish Defense League.]

Despite the autopsy report, Prime Minister Yitzhak Shamir used the occasion to vow that Palestinians “would be crushed like grasshoppers ... heads smashed against the boulders and walls.” [13h]

In Beita village, the scene of the incident, thirty houses were blown up. The number of houses destroyed was confirmed by Hamdi Faraj, a noted Palestinian journalist.
http://www.marxists.de/middleast/schoenman/pref.htm

"Israel should have exploited the repression of the demonstrations in China, when world attention focused on that country, to carry out mass expulsions among the Arabs of the territories."
-- Benyamin Netanyahu, then Israeli Deputy Foreign Minister, former Prime Minister of Israel, speaking to students at Bar Ilan University, from the Israeli journal Hotam, November 24, 1989.


Did not hold the P.M. office at the time, and would not for years to come. Besides, this does not show that such a policy would actually have been implemented since the P.M. is not a dictator.

Not in office is still not an argument. It reveals the attitude and intentions of a Zionist Israeli Leader.

"If we thought that instead of 200 Palestinian fatalities, 2,000 dead would put an end to the fighting at a stroke, we would use much more force...."
-- Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Barak, quoted in Associated Press, November 16, 2000.


So the goal here is to end fighting. Point?


So, you would support such a massacre? Would you consider it worth it like Madeleine Allbright's "worth it" when referring to the 500,000 deaths of Iraqi children as a direct result of sanctions?

"It is the duty of Israeli leaders to explain to public opinion, clearly and courageously, a certain number of facts that are forgotten with time. The first of these is that there is no Zionism, colonialization, or Jewish State without the eviction of the Arabs and the expropriation of their lands."

-- Ariel Sharon, Israeli Foreign Minister, addressing a meeting of militants from the extreme right-wing Tsomet Party, Agence France Presse, November 15, 1998.


"Facts forgotten in time", not advocating future policy.
[/color]

What he did before, during and after shows he was.

[quote]
Can you point out a few incidents? Is defending yourself from an aggressive invasion, repressing the invaders?
In your logic, the Iraqis are guilty of repression of US troops?


In total, 67 Jews were murdered in Hebron; 59 died during the riots and 8 more succumbed to their wounds later. The remaining community were placed on trucks and delivered to Jerusalem and all their property was seized by the Arabs.[3] Most of dead were Ashkenazi men, but there were also a dozen women and three children under the age of three. Seven of the victims were yeshiva students from the United States and Canada. Dozens of people were wounded, including many women and children. Several cases of rape, mutilation and torture were reported.[2]

All of the officials in Hebron itself were Arabs, and of its 40 policemen, only one was a Jew. Raymond Cafferata, the Assistant District Superintendent of the Palestine Police Force, had at his command 18 mounted policemen and 15 foot, the latter old men and of little use. On the early afternoon of Friday, August 23, upon hearing from car-drivers of fighting in Jerusalem, Cafferata deployed special pickets to report any unusual movement from the city and issued a request to headquarters for reinforcements. Intending to travel to Jerusalem, a crowd of 700 gathered at the city's central bus station, and one man gave a speech. Cafferata addressed the crowd, trying to calm them by denying anything happened in Jerusalem. He then took eight mounted officers to patrol the Jewish homes, where he encountered the city's Rabbi, Yaakov Yosef Slonim. The Rabbi pleaded with him for protection, while he came under a hail of stones from an Arab crowd. Cafferata told him and other Jews he came across to return to stay in their homes. After the Rabbi had obliged, Cafferata tried to disperse the crowd using clubs.[2]

At 4:00 pm, an Arab crowd began gathering outside the Hebron Yeshiva and throwing stones through the windows. Only two people were inside, a student and the sexton. Upon being hit, the student tried to leave to find himself facing the Arab crowd, who grabbed him and stabbed him to death; the sexton survived by hiding in a well. Some hours later a group of mukhtars came to Cafferata. They relayed that the Mufti had told them to take action or be fined due to the 'Jewish slaughter of Arabs' in Jerusalem. Raymond Cafferata promised that all was well and bid them return to their villages. He slept in his office that night.[2]

Early on Saturday a crowd armed with staves and axes appeared in the streets and stoned to death two Jewish boys. Cafferata shot two of the mob and emptied his revolver into the crowd, but his saddle slipped and he fell to the ground, whereupon the crowd began attacking every Jewish house. Cafferata instructed his men to fetch rifles and to open fire, which they did, dispersing a portion of the crowd, but some of the remaining rioters, shouting "on to the Ghetto", managed to break through the pickets. Cafferata continued shooting, hitting many of the rioters, but his efforts were in vain; repeated calls for reinforcements from Jerusalem, Jaffa and Gaza did not produce help in time. Both Jewish and Arab businesses in the Bazaar were looted.[4] A consignment of police was sent from Jerusalem but was delayed by other violence on the way to Hebron and arrived hours too late. This later became the source of considerable acrimony.[2]


A man reflecting on the aftermath of the pogromCafferata testified to the Commission of Enquiry in Jerusalem on 7 November that he had seen an Arab cutting a child's head with an axe. Behind him was an ex-police-constable standing over a woman with a dagger in his hand. Cafferata shot the assailant, who shouted "Your Honor, I am a policeman". The Times reported Cafferata's evidence to the Commission that "until the arrival of British police it was impossible to do more than keep the living Jews in the hospital safe and the streets clear [because he] was the only British officer or man in Hebron, a town of 20,000".[5]

Many Jews survived by hiding in their Arab neighbors' houses, while others survived by taking refuge in the British police station at Beit Romano on the outskirts of the city. The surviving Jews were later evacuated to Jerusalem. One third of the killed were students of the Hebron yeshiva. After the massacre, the remainder of the yeshiva was also moved to Jerusalem.[2]

On September 1, Sir John Chancellor condemned "the atrocious acts committed by bodies of ruthless and bloodthirsty evildoers... murders perpetrated upon defenceless members of the Jewish population... accompanied by acts of unspeakable savagery."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1929_Hebron_massacre


And....

Altogether 195 Arabs and 34 Jews were sentenced by the courts for crimes related to the 1929 riots. Death sentences were handed down to 17 Arabs and 2 Jews, but these were later commuted to long prison terms except in the case of 3 Arabs who were hanged. Large fines were imposed on about 25 Arab villages or urban neighborhoods. Some financial compensation was paid to persons who lost family members or property.


So criminals who perpetrated the crimes were arrested, convicted and sentenced.
What of the last 60+ years of Zionist aggression against the Arabs?

[Anti-Racism]

The way these illegal settlers are allowed to act is criminal.


Wait a second here.

We know we need a nation for Jews so that we do not have the diaspora, Holocausts, and all that tedious lugubrious stuff.

Jews and Arabs don't get along so well. Different ethnic groups, different religions. So there will be constant war in Israel for as long as it is not a Jewish ethnic state.

So... are the settlers illegal, or just part of what's a really good idea and should have been done long ago?

[Alonzo]

Settlers arrested. Then what?
Imprisoned?
Charged with something?
Let off with a wrist slap?

Their homes Bulldozed while they are still inside?
Their entire community surrounded by tanks as helicopters rain down rockets onto them?

Oops, disregard the last two punishments. They are reserved for Palestinians.


Well, they did bulldoze and surround the settler communities.

Yesterday an Israeli military tribunal sentenced an Israeli Occupation Forces soldier to four and a half months for the killing of Nabil Ahmed Jaradat, a 25-year-old Palestinian man, on 8 June 2003.


http://www.palestinemonitor.org/new_web/feb_05_archive.htm

Four Israeli soldiers have been jailed for stealing money from Palestinians while searching them in the occupied Gaza Strip, an army spokesman said today.

''It's the first time soldiers have been convicted of such a charge,'' he said. ''It is very, very serious.'' The four soldiers, all draftees, were sentenced by an Israeli military court on Monday to prison terms ranging from 18 months to 4 1/2 years for stealing a total of $500 from Arabs.



http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=950DEED6153DF935A15754C0A96F9482 60

So we have arrests, that I admit I'm not sure of the result of, and we have convictions. There are multiple others I found rather easily that, while being far too short sentences, are still more of a punishment than I've seen the Palestinian side give out. So show me one conviction of a Palestinian for harming a Jew.



Who ordered the Phalanges in to do a bit of revenge killing? None other than Ariel Sharon. Saying they only let them in is a Whitewash. They were ordered in to the camps and Sharon knew exactly what would happen.

They were sent in to clean up. You would likely be correct in saying the Israeli's had little interest in stopping it, but arguing that they actually wanted the massacre to occur is conjecture. Gross indifference to civilian lives is where the evidence leaves you.

But the Israeli public did not react silently:

However, as the news of the massacre spread around the world, the controversy grew, and on September 25, 300,000 Israelis — roughly one tenth of the country's then-population — demonstrated in Tel Aviv demanding answers. The protest, known in Israel as the "400,000 protest" (the number of protestors was first exaggerated) was the biggest protest in Israel's history.


You can't tell me that the Palestinian population would react that same.



Doesn't support an attempt to eradicate them, besides it's a different era and shortly after a war.


After a war? Excuses. Just one example of a long list of Israeli politicians, policy makers mentioning their intentions to wipe out or drive off the Palestinians.
[/quote]

I've never seen you express outrage when Palestinians talk about wiping out the Jews (in Israel) or non muslim Israeli's in Israel.




But he was in power and this is how he thinks.

How the first P.M. acts and how current day Israel acts are different, and how the current P.M. thinks and how he acts is often different as well. Do you really think Sharon wouldn't have loved to all the settlements in Gaza forever?


No more hatred than that directed against Israeli's.


For good reason.

So the Israeli's who turn up at peace protests, or work for humanitarian organizations in Palestine, there's good reason for Palestinians to make blanket statements that include them?

"(The Palestinians) would be crushed like grasshoppers ... heads smashed against the boulders and walls."
-- Isreali Prime Minister (at the time) Yitzhak Shamir in a speech to Jewish settlers New York Times April 1, 1988


Would be if? Obviously the context is missing as the wording even alludes to something else.


Ok, I'll give you the missing context argument there, so here is some..

Israeli Defense Minister Yitzhak Rabin announced that Israeli civilians have the same authority as soldiers to shoot. He added that soldiers need not fire warning shots before shooting Palestinians. [13f] Newsweek was more explicit: “The decree meant Israeli soldiers could shoot to kill Palestinian youths ... Yitzhak Rabin [was] effectively deputizing settlers.” [13g] The decision, according to Newsweek, would “open the floodgates of the 60,000 settlers’ pent-up frustration [sic].” It was not long before an attack occurred. On April 6, settlers engaging in a clear provocation shot in cold blood a Palestinian working in his field outside the village of Beita. Attention, however, focused on the death of Tirza Porat, a 15-year-old settler girl among the group. The settlers reported Tirza Porat had been stoned to death by the Palestinian villagers, but an army autopsy report revealed she had been shot in the head by the Kahane follower acting as her nominal guard. [Rabbi Meir Kahane is the founder of the Jewish Defense League.]

Despite the autopsy report, Prime Minister Yitzhak Shamir used the occasion to vow that Palestinians “would be crushed like grasshoppers ... heads smashed against the boulders and walls.” [13h]

In Beita village, the scene of the incident, thirty houses were blown up. The number of houses destroyed was confirmed by Hamdi Faraj, a noted Palestinian journalist.
http://www.marxists.de/middleast/schoenman/pref.htm

And the bias in that article is blatant. Marxists.de? You can do better. This is not in context, this is taking statements, piecing them together, and surrounding them by virilently anti-Israeli and anti-zionist interpretations of events.

"Israel should have exploited the repression of the demonstrations in China, when world attention focused on that country, to carry out mass expulsions among the Arabs of the territories."
-- Benyamin Netanyahu, then Israeli Deputy Foreign Minister, former Prime Minister of Israel, speaking to students at Bar Ilan University, from the Israeli journal Hotam, November 24, 1989.


"If we thought that instead of 200 Palestinian fatalities, 2,000 dead would put an end to the fighting at a stroke, we would use much more force...."
-- Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Barak, quoted in Associated Press, November 16, 2000.



So, you would support such a massacre? Would you consider it worth it like Madeleine Allbright's "worth it" when referring to the 500,000 deaths of Iraqi children as a direct result of sanctions?

2,000 vs 500,000. I'm not good with statistics or math at all really, but a death toll 250 times the death toll suggested in the quote is a very different thing. You can kill 2,000 civilians to end a war which has killed over than number already, and harmed far greater numbers, why not? You're saving more in the end.



What he did before, during and after shows he was.

He vacated many settlements in Gaza and was planning to do the same in West Bank. Was this a set up to a mass expulsion or something?


So criminals who perpetrated the crimes were arrested, convicted and sentenced.
What of the last 60+ years of Zionist aggression against the Arabs?



By the British colonial government for one. And two, that is one of the attacks that took place against Jews. You wanted an example, I gave you one.

[December]

Ever wonder when the whole thing started?....
Well, let's open the Old Testament and find out what the Jewish God commands the Jews to do...

Quote from the Old Testament:

"When the Lord your God brigs you (THE JEWS) into the land you are about to enter and occupy, he will clear away many nations ahead of you: the Hittites, Girgashites, Amorites, Canaanites, Hivites, and Jebusites. These seven nations are greater and more numerous than you. When the Lord your God hands these nations over to you (THE JEWS) and you conqure them, you must completely destroy them.
Make no treaties with them and show them no mercy".

Source - The Old Testament, Deuteronomy 7:1-3.

http://oneyearbibleimages.com/deut1.jpg

[Anti-Racism]

Every nation has to think that way to survive. Is Aztlan any different? Or the white conquest of Africa? It's all legitimate.

[December]

Every nation has to think that way to survive. Is Aztlan any different? Or the white conquest of Africa? It's all legitimate.


I don't know where are you getting these ideas from, but according your logic the Nazis were right in killing the 6 million Jews (if that's what happened) to survive the Jewish domination and to make Germany better.

Correct? :)

And by the way, we are not talking about thinking here.
This Old Testament quote is nothing else but a RULE, a Jewish Law which the Jews MUST obey.

[Anti-Racism]

This Old Testament quote is nothing else but a RULE, a Jewish Law which the Jews MUST obey.


I don't think "the Jews" all follow their religion to the letter.

However, their rule is a sensible one for any ethnic group: get theatre dominance, and be vigilant against outsiders, and preserve your ethnic, cultural and linguistic core.

That's sound advice for any group!

[crimzonsol]

December I believe the reason many would accept as true has all ready been expressed, if you wish to disagree I have some advice for you.
First Address what you see as the conflicting idea.
To address the other idea you should
-state the opposite Idea
-Source the opposing Idea
Now you should disprove the Idea
-Show how its wrong (Facts are helpful here)
-show incompatabilities within the proposition.
Now you state your Idea.
-State your Idea
-Explain your Idea
-show how yours is supierior to the other Ideas

If you do these things I believe that the debate we are trying to have maybe enhanced. As it is you are detracting from the debate, although I know thats not your intent.