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lily
08-03-2007, 12:55 AM
Well, I'm not thrilled by the cigarette hike, but it that's what it takes. (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/08/01/AR2007080100266.html?wpisrc=newsletter)

Children's Health Bill Approved By House
Insurance Expansion Near Senate Passage But Faces Veto Threat

By Jonathan Weisman
Washington Post Staff Writer
Thursday, August 2, 2007; Page A01

The House yesterday approved legislation vastly expanding a federal health
insurance program for the children of the working poor, shrugging off a
fresh veto threat from President Bush and the fierce opposition of House
Republicans.

The Senate, where the legislation has strong bipartisan support, is expected
to follow suit as early as today, voting on a more modest version of the
program and probably setting up a showdown between congressional supporters
and the White House, which says the measures are far too expansive.


The legislation would launch the most significant growth in federal health
care in a decade, and Democrats hope it will fortify their members as they
head home soon for the summer recess amid voter perceptions that they have
accomplished little since taking control of Congress.

"This is the children's hour," House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.)
declared last night. "We are able to meet our moral obligation to our
children."

The 225 to 204 vote in the House -- largely along party lines -- came after
hours of delaying tactics, strident rhetoric and trench warfare from
Republicans who called the bill the first step toward "socialized medicine,"
financed by an unfair tobacco tax increase and cuts for managed-care
companies in Medicare.

But in the end, the Democrats had weapons that were just too powerful -- a
promise to insure 5 million more children who otherwise would have no access
to health care, adding to the 6 million children already covered -- and the
backing of Republican and Democratic governors, the American Medical
Association, AARP, the March of Dimes, the Catholic Health Association, the
American Academy of Pediatrics, and even cyclist Lance Armstrong. And the
prospects are good in the Senate, where a key Republican, Orrin G. Hatch
(Utah), said, "It's difficult for me to understand how anyone wouldn't want
to do this."

But Bush opposes such a major expansion of the program. In an interview with
The Washington Post last month, he said, "When you expand eligibility . . .
you're really beginning to open up an avenue for people to switch from
private insurance to the government."

The House bill would enlarge the State Children's Health Insurance Program,
or SCHIP, by $47 billion over five years to provide coverage to the
additional 5 million children.

Those children would have access to dental and mental health care. And the
bill would offer new options for states to extend Medicaid and SCHIP
coverage up to age 20 and to cover some legal immigrants and pregnant women.
It would expand coverage for preventive health screening for seniors under
Medicare and would provide $19 billion over five years to prevent scheduled
cuts to physician reimbursements under Medicare. Nearly $3 billion is
included for rural health care.

To pay for itself, the bill would raise the federal tobacco tax by 45 cents
a pack, while making federal payments to managed-care plans under Medicare
equal to reimbursements for the federally managed Medicare program.

The bill, which last month appeared to be politically unassailable, stirred
a pitched battle on the House floor. Democrats charged that Republicans were
fighting to deny health care to children, using scare tactics and false
charges to mask their true intentions. Republicans accused Democrats of
pushing nationalized health care while accusing them of slashing Medicare
and imperiling seniors.

"Folks, that's the bottom line: It's government-paid health care," Rep. J.
Dennis Hastert (R-Ill.) said in a rare speech since he lost the House
speakership in the Democratic takeover. "It's a bad bill for a bad time, and
it's coming under the false pretenses of trying to do something for
children."

House Minority Leader John A. Boehner (R-Ohio), pointing to the cuts for
Medicare managed-care plans, dashed off a letter to AARP, calling for the
powerful seniors lobby to retract its endorsement and halt its full-throttle
campaign for the bill's passage.

But John Rother, AARP's policy director, responded that funding for Medicare
physician reimbursements and free medical screenings more than makes up for
any difficulties managed-care companies might face when they get the same
reimbursement rates as the core Medicare program.

The Senate measure, a $35 billion expansion of the program over five years,
would continue coverage for about 1 million children who might otherwise be
dropped and add 3 million youngsters.

By forgoing the physician reimbursement issue and rural health-care funding,
senators could pay for its bill with a 61-cent increase in the federal
tobacco tax while avoiding any Medicare cuts. That has given the Senate bill
broad, bipartisan support, but House Democratic leaders say the advocacy of
Hatch and several other conservatives will give their members ample
political cover when negotiators try to reconcile the House and Senate
versions.

Hatch and Sen. Edward M. Kennedy (D-Mass.) said yesterday that the
House-Senate negotiations will aim to keep the final measure within the
scope of the Senate bill, in hopes of avoiding a veto.

"Personally, I believe if we can get enough votes, the president doesn't
want to veto this," Hatch said.

House Republican leaders believe they have turned the issue against the
Democrats. Earlier this week, Rep. Rahm Emanuel (D-Ill.), the House
Democratic Caucus chairman, huddled with his caucus behind closed doors to
soothe frayed nerves. His tool was an advertisement that Rep. Chet Edwards
(D-Tex.) depended on to win reelection in 2004, when an unprecedented
redistricting in his state had made his electorate strongly Republican.

"I don't want welfare. I just want to get insurance for my child," Jenny
Jones, 28, said in the advertisement, after explaining that her husband had
been killed two years before in a house fire, leaving her 3-year-old
daughter, Bailey, dependent on the Children's Health Insurance Program.
"Look at my little girl, look into her eyes and tell her she's not good
enough to be taken care of."

Of the half-dozen Democrats targeted by Republican-controlled redistricting
in Texas, only Edwards survived. "What trumps everything is 11 million
children with health care and the AARP endorsement," Emanuel said.

tony mitra
09-30-2007, 10:35 PM
I thought it was shot down by Mr. Bush. Don't know why, but I can guess - there isn't enough money for it. :sadly:

preservanation
09-30-2007, 10:39 PM
I thought it was shot down by Mr. Bush. Don't know why, but I can guess - there isn't enough money for it. :sadly:

It would necessitate a HUGE tax increase and Bush Vetoed it.
This is all politics and gives the Dems a platform to say that the GOP hates children.
Same old stuff.
Schumer says they will keep sending it up over and over, just to get that issue, even though there is no chance for success.
Politics and guess what?
I hear there is an election coming up.

lily
10-01-2007, 12:29 AM
I thought it was shot down by Mr. Bush. Don't know why, but I can guess - there isn't enough money for it. :sadly:



Tony........it will be paid for by a hefty hike in the cigarette tax. It's mostly poor and some middle class that do most of the smoking, so in effect, they will be paying for it themselves.

I think Bush will veto it for 2 reasons and neither has to do with money.

1. It will hike the cigarette tax up high enough that it will impact sales and the tobacco lobbiests can't have that.
2. It insures more (children) than the plan Bush is proposing and in his view it will increase the size of "free health care" and lead the way to socialized medicine.

Cobra
10-01-2007, 12:30 AM
Poor smokers would pay for health bill

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070930/ap_on_go_co/cigarette_tax;_ylt=AoAufEaER.cYKs_iHwQWgLkDW7oF

WASHINGTON - Congressional Democrats have chosen an unlikely source to pay for the bulk of their proposed $35 billion increase in children's health coverage: people with relatively little money and education.

The program expansion passed by the House and Senate last week would be financed with a 156 percent increase in the federal cigarette tax, taking it to $1 per pack from the current 39 cents. Low-income people smoke more heavily than do wealthier people in the United States, making cigarette taxes a regressive form of revenue.

Democrats, who wrote the legislation and provided most of its votes, generally portray themselves as champions of the poor. They do not dispute that the tax plan would hit poor communities disproportionately, but they say it is worth it to provide health insurance to millions of modest-income children.

All the better, they say, if higher cigarette taxes discourage smoking.

"I'm very happy that we're paying for this," Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., said in an interview Friday, noting that the plan would not add to the deficit. "The health of the children is extremely important," he said. "In the long run, maybe it'll stop people from smoking."

Congress probably will revisit the cigarette tax issue soon because President Bush has pledged to veto the proposed $35 billion expansion of the State Children's Health Insurance Program. The decade-old program helps families buy medical coverage if their income is too high to qualify for Medicaid.

Bush has proposed a more modest growth for the program, and both political parties seem inclined to pay for it through a tax on an unpopular group, cigarette smokers.

By most measures, the average smoker is less privileged than the average nonsmoker. Nearly one-third of all U.S. adults living in poverty are smokers, compared with 23.5 percent of those above the poverty level, according to government statistics.

The American Heart Association reports that 35 percent of people with no more than 11 years of schooling are smokers. Those with 16 or more years of formal education smoke at a 12 percent rate.

Non-Hispanic black men smoke at slightly higher rates than do non-Hispanic white men. But the reverse is true among women.

The demographics of smoking and taxation received scant attention during last week's House and Senate debates, perhaps because many Democrats and Republicans agree that cigarettes are the best target for tax increase if the insurance program were to grow. A few lawmakers, however, took a swing.

"I know there is very little sympathy for smokers these days," Rep. Jack Kingston, R-Ga., said during the House debate. "But it is still a tax increase on the backs of the smokers. And in order to get enough money to pay for this, it would require 22 million new smokers."

Rep. Frank Pallone, D-N.J., defended putting the burden of expanded medical care on smokers.

"The tobacco tax is a great way to pay for it," he said, "because if you tax people who are smoking and they smoke less, then we have less health problems."

Rep. Jim McCrery, R-La., did not buy that logic. "To propose funding a growing program with a declining revenue source is, I would submit, irresponsible fiscal policy," he said.

If the federal cigarette tax nears $1 per pack, smokers in many states will pay hefty sums into government coffers unless they kick their habit. On top of the federal tax, New Jersey levies a $2.57 per pack tax on cigarettes, followed by Rhode Island at $2.46.

California is near the middle, at 87 cents a pack. Three states tax cigarettes at less than 30 cents per pack. South Carolina is the lowest at 7 cents.

Bill Phelps, spokesman for Philip Morris USA, based in Richmond, Va., said a steep federal tax increase could accelerate the national decline in smoking to the point that the insurance would have to find other revenue sources.

The average U.S. price of a pack of cigarettes has risen by 80 cents since 1999, Phelps said, largely because of state tax increases. State and federal governments received more than $21 billion in cigarette excise taxes in the 2006 budget year, he said, "so we think this trend is unfair to adults who smoke and to retailers who sell tobacco products."

In Congress, these groups receive little sympathy. But some lawmakers say voters should know the details of the insurance program's proposed funding structure.

Rep. Mike Pence, R-Ind., who spoke against the bill in last week's debate, said: "The headline ought to read, 'Smokers in America to pay for middle-class welfare.'"

preservanation
10-01-2007, 12:36 AM
Once the Gov gets a hold of something, they make it worse.
No exception.
The private sector will always do it better.
If the Gov feels that regulation is in order, so be it. I can't stop that.
But TAKE it OVER?
Bad move![hr]Privatising SS was called a a bad idea when funded by individuals, THEIROWN money by the dems, but privatization is good idea when it's made with TAX PAYERS, (GOV) money.
How is that?

tony mitra
10-01-2007, 12:46 AM
Reads Lily

Hmmmm .... Socialized medicine.

You know, I lived in the US for near 7 years, and had my take on the system there. My firm had me covered through Blue Cross/ Blue Shield, which I am told was one of the better insurance policies.

Anyhow, I found the system sucks, not so much because I had to pay too much for it, but I could clearly see some one in the middle was making way too much money, and unbelievably high amount of profit.

In my case, the profit was staggering, both for the service provider, and the supplier of the drugs. I had to take a mild dose of blood pressure medication - and paid about USD 15 per month for it, while the insurance paid another 30ish, while the total bill for the drug was close to 50 per month. And they were not giving brand name drugs, but generic ones.

I figured out that the generic drug (although without label and without any name on it except for the label on the plastic bottle in which it was delivered to me), actually came from India.

So, the next time I went to India, I walked into the most expensive drug store in town and asked for the off the shelf cost of that drug, if I was to pay full price for it without any insurance. It turned out, a monthly supply would cost be exactly USD 2.

So, the service provider was charging my company something like a thousand bucks a month as premium, and was paying some 35 a month towards those drugs, and asking me to pay 15. And the drug supplier was getting 35 from the insurer, and 15 from me, totaling 50, and supplying me something that was cheaper than 2. In short, what should have been 2 bucks per month, was costing my employer a thousand per month, and me 15 per month.

For me the decision was simple. I bought all three months supply in India, and never went to buy the same stuff in USA again, preferring to save my 15 buck monthly expenditure. My employer was out of luck, since they were obliged to cover my medical insurance. But I learned a lesson, on globalization and how the healthcare system works in the US.

Cheers.

lily
10-01-2007, 01:05 AM
Poor smokers would pay for health bill

Which is what I've been saying all along......they will be paying for it themselves. What is the problem?? (Not you Cobra.....Bush)[hr]
Reads Lily

Hmmmm .... Socialized medicine.

You know, I lived in the US for near 7 years, and had my take on the system there. My firm had me covered through Blue Cross/ Blue Shield, which I am told was one of the better insurance policies.

I think you read my post wrong Tony.......that's Bush's reason for vetoing the bill, not mine. I honestly don't know as much as some here who have debated socialized medicine to have an opinion one way or the other.

I do know that since the Republicans put in the new Medicare prescription drug plan.......the busses from Detroit to Ontario have pretty much stopped.