Michael Moron gets subpoena

[Stoner]

I hope they nail this scumbag to the wall. Unfortunatly I see him weaseling out of this. I love how he even blames this on Bush. Classic!

Michael Moore says he's been served
BURBANK, Calif., July 26 (UPI) -- Michael Thursday said the Bush administration has served him with a subpoena regarding his trip to Cuba during the making of his new film, "Sicko."

The Oscar-winning filmmaker, who appeared Thursday on NBC's "The Tonight Show with Jay Leno," said he was notified about the subpoena at the network's studios in Burbank, Calif.

"I haven't even told my own family yet," Moore said. "I was just informed when I was back there with Jay that the Bush administration has now issued a subpoena for me."

Moore filmed the trip as part of his film comparing the U.S. healthcare system with government healthcare systems in other countries.

He took three Sept. 11, 2001, emergency rescue workers to Guantanamo Bay "because I heard the al-Qaida terrorists we have in the camps there, detained, are receiving free dental, medical, eye care, the whole deal, and our own (Sept. 11) rescue workers can't get that in New York City."

Moore said the film's distributor, the Weinstein Co., will donate 11 percent of "Sicko's" box-office receipts Aug. 11 to "help these workers and the other workers who need help."

http://www.upi.com/NewsTrack/Entertainment/2007/07/26/michael_moore_says_hes_been_served/8497/

[ttriber]

I can't stand the guy but this makes it even better a little punk who goes and contributes to the communist propraganda and gets subpeoned for it, I am so damn glad. It's about time,nobody should even visit that country. It makes me even angrier to think he brought 9/11 responders over there where me and my family had to leave because of the abuses their and this man has the guts or "balls" to even make a movie kissing the b***** medicine where in reality if he really wanted to show the truth he would of showed how in communist cuba the ordinary citizens basically get sh*t holes for hospital and get treated like an animal's.

[bobbylien]

ordinary citizens basically get sh*t holes for hospital and get treated like an animal's.

You mean like the poor in this country?

[lawless168]

ordinary citizens basically get sh*t holes for hospital and get treated like an animal's.

You mean like the poor in this country?

"title 19" is best medical ins I have ever seen

[Stoner]

You mean like the poor in this country?


Every time I am in a hospital I see tons of poor people there getting great treatment in a very upscale facility.

Sorry, Bobby-boy, Michael Moron has lied to you.

Now if you want I'll pry that hook out of your mouth and help you see the truth. Let me know.

[bobbylien]

How do you know those are poor people stoner? Just wondering...
As a side note, I haven't seen the movie and I don't really want to.

[exigent]

You mean like the poor in this country?


Every time I am in a hospital I see tons of poor people there getting great treatment in a very upscale facility.


Free treatment? These people are going to receive several very large bills.

BTW

Bash Moore all you want, I can care less. Our healthcare system is shit.

S-H-ONE-T

shit

[Truth_and_Power]

I can't stand the guy but this makes it even better a little punk who goes and contributes to the communist propraganda and gets subpeoned for it, I am so damn glad. It's about time,nobody should even visit that country. It makes me even angrier to think he brought 9/11 responders over there where me and my family had to leave because of the abuses their and this man has the guts or "balls" to even make a movie kissing the b***** medicine where in reality if he really wanted to show the truth he would of showed how in communist cuba the ordinary citizens basically get sh*t holes for hospital and get treated like an animal's.


What influence do you think the difference between rich and poor in pre-castro cuba had on the revolution that happened there?

[Labrocca]

ordinary citizens basically get sh*t holes for hospital and get treated like an animal's.

You mean like the poor in this country?


My wife is a pediatrci ICU nurse..they often have poor people and even illegal immigrants on the floor and they get the same treatment as anyone in the hospital. Hospitals can't ask legal status by law and they can't turn away emergency patients either.

The poor actually get pretty fair treatment imho considering the rich and middle class are paying their bill.

[exigent]

The poor actually get pretty fair treatment imho considering the rich and middle class are paying their bill.


sometimes we pay their bill.

[preservanation]

The AMA is all for expanding the base of the insured by offering cheaper coverage subsidized by the tax payer. For others especially the young, it might not be economically prudent to spend money on insurance.
They still do not address the question what if people don't want to be insured at any price it would still be cheaper for the people on public assistance not to pay anything and still access the greatest medicine in human history and still payed for by the tax payer. Yes, the proverbial double whammy.
This is nothing but a way for the libs to get this $300 bill/yr industry into the hands of big gov and the nanny-state. This will drastically reduce the quality of care, drug research and development, medical professionals salaries (thus reducing the quality and availability of personnel).
Going to the doctor will become like going to the DMV (DOT) or any other federal run bureaucracy. Do you really want that? Remember that this would be the same gov who oversaw FEMA. If I am not mistaken most libs had a field day denigrating that agency. But entrusting the nation's health care to this inefficient, uncaring, slow, corrupt body all of a sudden seems like a dandy idea to these same people.

Now, this is very important, so put down your nouveau Beaujolais and pay attention...
Anything that the gov has the power to give you, they also have the power to take away.

Under socialised Universal medicine, today you get your heart medicine, tomorrow, by the stroke of the legislative pen, you do not..

[Stoner]

Then again anyone that goes into one of Michael Moron's films looking for facts is a complete fucktard. Everyone of his fictional movies has been debunked almost line for line.

[Alonzo]

I find it odd. The u.s. government doesn't seem to give a damn whether you go to Cuba or not unless you try to flaunt it or do something stupid. All you have to do is tell the Cubans not to stamp your passport and you can be like all the other americans in Cuba who never get caught. It's like the u.s. government just puts on a show to pretend they care about the travel ban, but they don't really.

I still regret not going when I had the chance.

[lily]

Eh, just more publicity for his movie.

[preservanation]

I see a major melt down in Moore's future.
Anybody walking around with that much hate based on lies cannot be well.

Shades of Larry Flint...

[CheesyMuslim]

Sorry bout that,

1. But isn't it strange that the Neoliberals in power now, want to look at this fatbastard?
2. Indeed strange???
3. I wonder where this will go?
4. I smell a rat!

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

[lily]

Link (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20012849/)

U.S. pro-Cuba protesters defy travel ban
Americans walk across border after visiting Havana; Customs lets them in


Updated: 3:00 p.m. ET July 28, 2007
BUFFALO, N.Y. - American protesters walked across the border from Canada
Saturday after a visit to Cuba that violated a U.S. travel ban, in the
spotlight after Michael Moore’s film on health care in both countries.

About 60 members of pro-Cuba group Venceremos Brigade walked the Peace
Bridge border crossing linking Canada and Buffalo, New York, on their return
from Havana.

U.S. travelers to Cuba often fly through Canada, which has regular flights
to the country.



“The government is telling us we don’t have a right to travel, and we think
we do, so we’re ready to wage a legal battle with our government,” brigade
member Kathe Karlson said as the group gathered in Fort Erie, Ontario, for
the one-mile trek across the bridge.

The protesters walked in groups of 15, hauling their luggage up a narrow
sidewalk high above the Niagara River as trucks, buses and cars rumbled by
on the three-lane span.

[Alonzo]

Did they make it known they were in Cuba? It's very easy not to get caught. Cuba doesn't stamp U.S. passports and Cuba even has a website instructing Americans how not to get caught. Or at least they did, can't find it at the moment.

[lily]

Did they make it known they were in Cuba?

I would imagine that they are well know. Sounds like some sort of group.

Bonnie Massey, a 26-year-old social worker from the Bronx, said nine of the 600 people who have participated in the trips over the past six years have been threatened with fines.

“Those people are waiting for hearings,” she said. The group would welcome the opportunity to take a case to the U.S. Supreme Court, Massey said.

They may have a long wait.

U.S. customs officials processed the first 15 members through in about 20 minutes, with minimal fuss.

[ttriber]

Did they make it known they were in Cuba? It's very easy not to get caught. Cuba doesn't stamp U.S. passports and Cuba even has a website instructing Americans how not to get caught. Or at least they did, can't find it at the moment.

Yes they do have a website and it is headed by a former CIA agent who became a traitor and moved to Cuba. These pro-Cuba supporters are rare my friend come down to Miami and you won't see many people who want to lift the embargo. That group that supports Cuba is probably headed by a honcho in the Cuban intelligence agency (the DGI). The other problems is that why do you want to go to Cuba for the cheap travel expenses when their are people in misery there? You want to support a government who tortures their own people? A government where the only person to vote for is a man named Castro? I can keep going but do you really want to support a f*cked up government an enemy towards the US.

I can see that most people here don't have issues with people going to Cuba but it is probably because you have never lived their with the locals or ever had those problems i wrote on. It makes me ANGRY to think people like alonzomourning23 regret going to cuba when you should'nt even be considering it. The things that man has done are un-explainable and then to think their are people like alonzo who regret it makes me SICK.

[Alonzo]

I would imagine that they are well know. Sounds like some sort of group.


It probably has to do with this then:

The group would welcome the opportunity to take a case to the U.S. Supreme Court, Massey said.

The ban has a good shot at being struck down. The last time it was only narrowly upheld int he mid 80's, and that was due to cold war issues. If not then at least the courts reasoning would have to change.

It makes me ANGRY to think people like alonzomourning23 regret going to cuba when you should'nt even be considering it. The things that man has done are un-explainable and then to think their are people like alonzo who regret it makes me SICK.


I doubt you'd reserve the same hatred for the Batista regime. The man who presided over mass illiteracy, starving peasants and mass executions. I'm no fan of either, but it's not like Castro replaced an angel. A brutal dictator who improved the living conditions of the poor replaced a brutal dictator whose policy towards the poor was "fuck em".

So you hate Castro, therefore you won't allow the people there to make a living through the tourism industry? After all, when the soviet union fell, and then the Cuban economy collapsed, it was their newfound position as a major tourist destination that eventually started putting money and food back into the peoples possesion. I guess in your mind it is better to let them have nothing.

I guess I probably shouldn't tell you about my desire to visit Iran and North Korea. Unfortunately Americans aren't allowed in North Korea, though they do give tours to citizens from virtually every other country, so if I was Canadian I could go. I have known a few people who have been to Iran though, both recently and before the revolution. Sadly I'm not one of them.

Though I will saying knowing that my tastes in travel has made you both angry and sick has brightened an already good day.

[ttriber]

doubt you'd reserve the same hatred for the Batista regime. The man who presided over mass illiteracy, starving peasants and mass executions. I'm no fan of either, but it's not like Castro replaced an angel. A brutal dictator who improved the living conditions of the poor replaced a brutal dictator whose policy towards the poor was "f_ck em".

So you hate Castro, therefore you won't allow the people there to make a living through the tourism industry? After all, when the soviet union fell, and then the Cuban economy collapsed, it was their newfound position as a major tourist destination that eventually started putting money and food back into the peoples possesion. I guess in your mind it is better to let them have nothing.

I guess I probably shouldn't tell you about my desire to visit Iran and North Korea. Unfortunately Americans aren't allowed in North Korea, though they do give tours to citizens from virtually every other country, so if I was Canadian I could go. I have known a few people who have been to Iran though, both recently and before the revolution. Sadly I'm not one of them.

Though I will saying knowing that my tastes in travel has made you both angry and sick has brightened an already good day.

My friend let me start off with the first sentence. Batista was a capitalistic Dictator but he sure as hell was'nt as bad as Castro. After living in cuba for 12 years I can tell you this personally the man is a ruthless bastard with no degree of moral for his people or anybody but his government.

Another inaccurate remark "therefore you won't allow the people there to make a living through the tourism industry?" The tourism Industry their is headed by the government and It isn't for the people it is to make money out of the tourists and use it for communist purposes for example helping the Chavez Regime in its propraganda machine as well as spreading communism to other countries. When I lived in cuba I would go to a hotel but of course the security would boot me out because I was a cuban native and the government doesn't want their own people who are starving to go to thse fancy tourists spots. Hell I knew of a couple of women who became prostitues and guess who were using them the tourists that come from these other nations. The place is Crime filled my friend CRIME FILLED with corruption rampid everywhere.

I am glad you would like to visit Countries like Cuba,Iran,North Korea. Now would you live their is another debate. You my friend are somebody who really doesn't know much about cuba or its history. The stuff you get on CNN and your extremist leftist idealogy are totally different then what I heard and saw in Cuba. Your insightful rhetoric really shows you have no knowledge of the history of cuba or what the CASTRO Regime is doing right now.
If you want some insight on some of this history go to www.therealcuba.com (I am not trieng to advertise this but It sure is truthful on the stuff it says about the castro regime)

[Alonzo]

Wow, realcuba.com, real unbiased. Also, pictures, as are shown on that site, are powerful emotional statements, but can also support any side. They don't tell the full picture. It's like taking a picture off of "operation rescue" and holding that up as an argument against abortion. They do not show the conditions of the average cuban, of the farmer, or any of the poor. You can get some beautiful images of well maintained and clean buildings, subways etc. in Pyongyang, much nicer and better kept than what you'd see in Detroit, but those images tell nothing of the daily lives of the majority of the population. Obviously Detroit is much, much, much better off, despite its more dirty and run down appearance.

After living in cuba for 12 years I can tell you this personally the man is a ruthless bastard with no degree of moral for his people or anybody but his government.


Pre-Castro Cuba was good for the rich, not for anyone else. You say you lived in Cuba, fine, I'm not saying he's a good leader or it's a great place. I'm saying he's better than Batista, an issue which you have no personal experience with and neither do I. Lets take a look at some Cuban statistics as they are now:

Infant Mortality
Cuba- 6.33
U.S.- 6.5
Haiti- 73.45
Jamaica- 12.36
Mexico- 20.91

Literacy
Cuba- 97%
U.S.- 97%
Haiti- 52.9
Jamaica- 87.9
Mexico- 92.2

Life Expectancy
Cuba- 77.23
U.S.- 77.71
Haiti- 52.92
Jamaica- 73.3
Mexico- 75.19

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/index.html

Damn that liberal CIA.

Since the 1960s, healthcare in Cuba has been of the regime's top priorities. Throughout the 1970s and 1980s President Fidel Castro repeatedly voiced his intention of converting the country into a 'medical superpower'. Enviable health and medical care indicators have come as a result of this prioritising of one sector above all else, despite the ever-present US embargo - one of the few existing embargoes that explicitly includes foods and medicines as part of its virtual ban on bilateral commercial ties.

Physicians per 100,000 Population
Brazil- 121.3
Cuba- 346.1
Mexico- 160

Cuba has the lowest infant and maternal mortality rates, the highest doctor-to-population ratio and the highest rate of public health service coverage in Latin America.

http://www.worldmarketsanalysis.com/InFocus2002/articles/americas_Cuba_health.html

The tourism Industry their is headed by the government and It isn't for the people it is to make money out of the tourists and use it for communist purposes for example helping the Chavez Regime in its propraganda machine as well as spreading communism to other countries. When I lived in cuba I would go to a hotel but of course the security would boot me out because I was a cuban native and the government doesn't want their own people who are starving to go to thse fancy tourists spots. Hell I knew of a couple of women who became prostitues and guess who were using them the tourists that come from these other nations.

Prostitution is common whenever tourists are present, and rampant in poorer nations when they're there. That's not unique to Cuba. Sad, but not unique.

As for "starving citizens", the only time where that would have been a realistic portrayal was the few years between the fall of the soviety union and the rise of the tourism industry. A state where, if boycotted, it would possibly return to. But now the concept of "starving citizens" is innacurate:

In the last MICS survey of 2000, the prevalence of malnutrition among pre-school age children, based on the three main anthropometric indicators, was below 5% at national level, with minimal differences among regions. The highest prevalence rates were see in rural areas and in the Occidente region where stunting was 7%. These remarkably low percentages of child malnutrition put Cuba at the forefront of developing countries. Overweight among children showed an increase in prevalence in the 1980s, followed by a decrease between 1993 and 1998 when prevalence rates stabilized around 5%.

http://www.fao.org/ag/agn/nutrition/cub-e.stm

Malnourishment in Cuba is consistent throughout regions. But not in places like mexico, such as in the state of Chiapas:

Half of the 3.2 million people in Chiapas , a state in southern Mexico , live in poverty, 65% of children are malnourished, 58% of people do not have access to clean water, and 30% of adults are illiterate.

http://www.drop-in-the-ocean.org/microfinance_partners.htm

The success of biotechnology research in Cuba is the main pull-factor for a Swiss delegation arriving in the country for a one-week official visit on Monday.....
Against the odds

Observers say the collapse of the former Soviet Union and the United States trade embargo forced Cuba to develop homegrown solutions to local health problems.

Despite being relatively poor, Cuba's biotech sector is among the most successful in the developing world. Cuba exports biotechnology products to more than 50 countries, mainly in Latin America, eastern Europe and Asia.

Vaccines have been a particular focus of Cuban biotechnology. Local research and development programmes led to the first and only vaccine for a strain of meningitis.

Well-funded research centres, such as the Centre for Genetic Engineering and Biotechnology in Havana, have been at the forefront of several impressive scientific advances.

Ongoing work includes research on a Dengue vaccine, preventative and therapeutic Aids vaccines, a cholera vaccine and a cancer therapeutic vaccine.

Pharmaceutical giant GlaxoSmithKline will soon begin clinical trials on a meningitis B vaccine developed in Cuba. Experts say there may be similar
opportunities for Swiss companies in future.

http://www.swissinfo.org/sen/swissinfo.html?siteSect=511&sid=6461694&cKey=1139829649000

British scientists are also investigating the effectiveness of a Cuban vaccine.

Cuba is the only country in the world to have a national meningitis vaccination programme.

Its development followed a large number of cases, particularly among children, in the 1980s.
The Cuban authorities say that since the vaccination programme began, no children have died from meningitis B in Cuba.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/medical_notes/275804.stm

Here's some statistics compiled by the WHO

Probability of dying (per 1000)

Before 5
Cuba- 7
U.S.- 7
Canada- 6

15-60
Cuba- males 137, females 87
U.S.- males- 139, females- 82
Canada- males- 93, females- 57

Women recieving antanatal care (ANC, prenatal care)
Cuba- 4+ visits- 100%
U.S.- no statistics
Canada- no statistics

Births Attended by skilled professional
Cuba- 100%
U.S.- 99%
Canada- 98%

Immunization-

BGC
Cuba- 99%
U.S.- not offered
Canada- not offered

DTP
Cuba- 71%
U.S.- 96%
Canada- 91%

Measles
Cuba- 99
U.S.- 93
Canada- 95

Hepatitis B
Cuba- 99
U.S.- 92
Canada- no data

Hib
Cuba- 99
U.S.- 92
Canada- 83

Districts achieving 80% DTP 3 coverage
Cuba- 43%
U.S.- no data
Canada- no data


http://www.who.int/whr/2005/annex/indicators_country_a-f.pdf
http://www.who.int/whr/2005/annex/indicators_country_p-z.pdf

I apologize if a couple of the links aren't working, the statistics were posted in a previous argument a while ago.

[lily]

I don't mean to get in the middle of this, Zo and ttriber, but I think it's way past time that the embargo was lifted on Cuba.

[ttriber]

Alonzomourning23, You flood with me statistics to show how much you really know about cuba but you forget to mention any of the abuses the Castro Regime has done.

For example here are a few sites you may want to look at.
http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGAMR250012006

Here's another one you may want to look into http://www.hrw.org/reports/1999/cuba/

You say their is trafficking in every tourist area, Excuse me but when I went to Chicago and stayed at the Holliday INN, I sure did'nt see any prosititutes or hookers. It is sickening to see children and women exploited to this degree.

Trafficking in persons:

current situation: Cuba is a source country for women and children trafficked for the purposes of sexual exploitation and forced child labor; Cuba is a major destination for sex tourism, which largely caters to European, Canadian, and Latin American tourists and involves large numbers of minors; there are reports that Cuban women have been trafficked to Mexico for sexual exploitation; forced labor victims also include children coerced into working in commercial agriculture
tier rating: Tier 3 - Cuba does not fully comply with the minimum standards for the elimination of trafficking and is not making significant efforts to do so

Illicit drugs:

territorial waters and air space serve as transshipment zone for US- and European-bound drugs; established the death penalty for certain drug-related crimes in 1999

I'm not gonna go naming every single offense the Castro Regime has done but I can assure you that you probably have never even been to cuba or lived there.These statistics is exactly what the Castro regime wants you to think which I have confirmed looking at the State Department website most of these statistics are said to be from the government of Cuba. Come to reality my friend I know you say you dislike CUBA, but If you cant admit that you have prisoner abuses what makes you think that they have a 97% literacy rate?

The point is If you want to go to all of these terrorist countries go ahead your free to do so but when you get a subpeona don't crie foul because the US government warned you before going there.

I personally will not go to any communist nation or terrorist site. After what I have experienced I am just suprised that there are people like yourself alonzomourning23 that would do these expeditions my Lord why dont you just go and live in North Korea the rest of your life or Iran. If it makes you sleep better go ahead.

It still suprises the hell out of me that this discussion has turned into a statistic's rally of love for the Castro Regime . I sometimes wonder what has this world come to, that there are people who support a sun of a b*tch like Castro who has killed millions of people in his 50 years of hell on the country.

As far as the embargo being lifted here is a comment from a Policy Anaylst named John P. Sweeney

The 32-year-old trade embargo against Cuba may finally be producing its intended results of destabilizing the island's communist government and weakening Fidel Castro's control of the Cuban people. Castro has resisted change for over five years since losing the Soviet Union's financial support, but his final collapse may be closer than ever before. Nevertheless, he continues his visceral loathing of democracy and the free market, all the while demanding the embargo be lifted without condition. It seems clear that Castro believes his survival hinges on the embargo's elimination. Paradoxically, just as Castro's communist government may be close to falling, a chorus of voices in the U.S. has risen to call for the lifting of the embargo. They cite several reasons: to ease the suffering of the Cuban people, to capitalize on the trade and investment opportunities other countries allegedly are enjoying in Cuba, and to establish the bases of a free-market economy that in time will compel democratic reforms as well. But the greatest beneficiary would be Fidel Castro, whose 35-year-old communist dictatorship would be fortified overnight if he were allowed access to the billions of dollars in financial aid from multilateral agencies, credit guarantees, and investment that would start flowing into Cuba.

The United States must not abandon the Cuban people by relaxing or lifting the trade embargo against the communist regime. Instead, the U.S. government must reject all pressures to ease the embargo until all of the objectives for which it was imposed are achieved. Anything less would constitute an unacceptable breach of faith with the Cuban people, who today are among the very few people left in the world who still suffer the brutality of a communist dictatorship.

This basically sums up what I feel about the embargo.The pain he is suffering with the embargo should be kept untill he establishes a new free democratic society with no dictatorship and trial him for every damn abuse he's done(Which if you have a brain won't happend so why should we lift the embargo). Hell I would love it if he was hung like Sadaam Hussein I could see the people spitting on his face boy what a site to see. My feelings are strong against any communist nation but towards this man there is no forgiveness given and his brother is just as bad as he is.

[Alonzo]

Alonzomourning23, You flood with me statistics to show how much you really know about cuba but you forget to mention any of the abuses the Castro Regime has done.

The statistics were not to show you anything about me, they were readily available since I had a much more in depth debate with someone else already. I just made a few quick edits.

But since I'm not saying Castro is good, just better than Batista, I don't see your point.


For example here are a few sites you may want to look at.
http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGAMR250012006

Here's another one you may want to look into http://www.hrw.org/reports/1999/cuba/

Those are problems you had under Batista. The human rights situation in Cuba has been problematic under both Batista and Castro.

Also, your amnesty link lists the embargo as worsening the situation.

You say their is trafficking in every tourist area, Excuse me but when I went to Chicago and stayed at the Holliday INN, I sure did'nt see any prosititutes or hookers. It is sickening to see children and women exploited to this degree.

This is what I said:

Prostitution is common whenever tourists are present, and rampant in poorer nations when they're there. That's not unique to Cuba. Sad, but not unique.

If you want to talk about trafficking that's entirely different. Trafficking does occur in the u.s., canada and cuba. It's worse in Cuba, but the same is true for virtually every south american country.

But you claim you didn't see hookers in chicago? There are hookers everywhere. There are hookers in Boston, New Orleans, Chicago, Phoenix, Ottawa, Montreal and Toronto. There are hookers in virtually every city in the u.s. and canada, and I've seen them in all the cities I listed. I can tell you right know where to go to see many prostitutes in Boston if you want. Prostitution occurs everywhere, moreso in tourist areas. And most prostitutes begin as children:

Numerous studies place the average age entering prostitution at between 14 and 16 years in the United States.

http://www.prostitutionrecovery.org/hammer.html

If you want to talk about prostitution as a Cuban thing you're naive.

Trafficking in persons:

current situation: Cuba is a source country for women and children trafficked for the purposes of sexual exploitation and forced child labor; Cuba is a major destination for sex tourism, which largely caters to European, Canadian, and Latin American tourists and involves large numbers of minors; there are reports that Cuban women have been trafficked to Mexico for sexual exploitation; forced labor victims also include children coerced into working in commercial agriculture
tier rating: Tier 3 - Cuba does not fully comply with the minimum standards for the elimination of trafficking and is not making significant efforts to do so

Illicit drugs:

territorial waters and air space serve as transshipment zone for US- and European-bound drugs; established the death penalty for certain drug-related crimes in 1999

I'm not gonna go naming every single offense the Castro Regime has done but I can assure you that you probably have never even been to cuba or lived there.These statistics is exactly what the Castro regime wants you to think which I have confirmed looking at the State Department website most of these statistics are said to be from the government of Cuba. Come to reality my friend I know you say you dislike CUBA, but If you cant admit that you have prisoner abuses what makes you think that they have a 97% literacy rate?

The point is If you want to go to all of these terrorist countries go ahead your free to do so but when you get a subpeona don't crie foul because the US government warned you before going there.

I personally will not go to any communist nation or terrorist site. After what I have experienced I am just suprised that there are people like yourself alonzomourning23 that would do these expeditions my Lord why dont you just go and live in North Korea the rest of your life or Iran. If it makes you sleep better go ahead.

It still suprises the hell out of me that this discussion has turned into a statistic's rally of love for the Castro Regime . I sometimes wonder what has this world come to, that there are people who support a sun of a b*tch like Castro who has killed millions of people in his 50 years of hell on the country.

I'm not sure what drug trafficking does for your case, since it said that crack down hard on those contributing. And it's not like America is exactly a drug free zone.

As for trafficking:

Forced labour is most likely to affect rural or indigenous populations in remote areas of Latin America. Problems of debt bondage and abusive conditions have been documented in remote parts of the Amazon and the Andean region. The region is a place of origin, transit and destination for persons trafficked for sexual exploitation and labour. In the Caribbean, there are allegations of forced labour affecting Haitian migrants in the Dominican Republic and of children in Haiti being sold into domestic slavery.
....
Human trafficking routes run throughout the region, often leading into the US from Mexico, Canada, or overseas. Many of the tens of thousands of people who are trafficked into the US and Canada are forced into prostitution or domestic work, others become forced labourers on farms or factories. Most come from Asia and Latin America, but flows from Central and Eastern Europe are reported to be on the rise.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/shared/spl/hi/world/05/slavery/html/1e.stm

Also, tier 3 for trafficking also includes bolivia, kuwait, jamaica, united arab emirates, ecuador etc.

http://www.state.gov/g/tip/rls/tiprpt/2005/46610.htm


http://www.state.gov/g/tip/rls/tiprpt/2005/46610.htm


As far as the embargo being lifted here is a comment from a Policy Anaylst named John P. Sweeney

The 32-year-old trade embargo against Cuba may finally be producing its intended results of destabilizing the island's communist government and weakening Fidel Castro's control of the Cuban people. Castro has resisted change for over five years since losing the Soviet Union's financial support, but his final collapse may be closer than ever before. Nevertheless, he continues his visceral loathing of democracy and the free market, all the while demanding the embargo be lifted without condition. It seems clear that Castro believes his survival hinges on the embargo's elimination. Paradoxically, just as Castro's communist government may be close to falling, a chorus of voices in the U.S. has risen to call for the lifting of the embargo. They cite several reasons: to ease the suffering of the Cuban people, to capitalize on the trade and investment opportunities other countries allegedly are enjoying in Cuba, and to establish the bases of a free-market economy that in time will compel democratic reforms as well. But the greatest beneficiary would be Fidel Castro, whose 35-year-old communist dictatorship would be fortified overnight if he were allowed access to the billions of dollars in financial aid from multilateral agencies, credit guarantees, and investment that would start flowing into Cuba.

The United States must not abandon the Cuban people by relaxing or lifting the trade embargo against the communist regime. Instead, the U.S. government must reject all pressures to ease the embargo until all of the objectives for which it was imposed are achieved. Anything less would constitute an unacceptable breach of faith with the Cuban people, who today are among the very few people left in the world who still suffer the brutality of a communist dictatorship.

This basically sums up what I feel about the embargo.The pain he is suffering with the embargo should be kept untill he establishes a new free democratic society with no dictatorship and trial him for every damn abuse he's done(Which if you have a brain won't happend so why should we lift the embargo). Hell I would love it if he was hung like Sadaam Hussein I could see the people spitting on his face boy what a site to see. My feelings are strong against any communist nation but towards this man there is no forgiveness given and his brother is just as bad as he is.

[/quote]

For the love of god, that's from 96.

Castro has resisted change for over five years since losing the Soviet Union's financial support,

It's blatantly dishonest to use that analysis due to the rise of the tourism industry which hadn't taken effect yet when that was written.

For a more realistic opinion lets look at one of the links you provided:

The US embargo on Cuba
Amnesty International is concerned that the ongoing unilateral US embargo against Cuba continues to have a detrimental impact on the exercise of the full range of human rights in Cuba. Amnesty International believes that the US embargo contributes to the undermining of key civil and political rights in Cuba. On these grounds, Amnesty International calls for its immediate lifting. The organization also calls on the Cuban government to stop using the embargo and the political antagonism with the US government as a pretext to violate the human rights of the Cuban people.


http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGAMR250012006

And again, my whole point is that Castro and Batista both had poor human rights records. The difference is one improved the condition of the poor and one did absolutely nothing.

[Marley]

This is like the inverse of a "chickenhawk."

Praising Cuba, propping up a thug dictator, yet not having the courage to go live it.

[ttriber]

The things you fail to understand Zo is that the Batista Regime WASNT as bad as the regime that is in power right now and has been for 48 years. The Batista regime at one point was bad, but to even compare it to this bastard is ridiculous. This man is a Dictator with so many abuses that they cover up what good information you have said. My friend If you insist on telling me that the Castro Regime isn't as bad as the Batista Regime then go ahead & live their like I did and go protest Castro and then you'll see your self in a prison somewhere. There is much more then meets the eye with these statistics the things you fail to accept is that Castro has'nt helped any damn poor but himself. That is the problem the guy has done ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO HELP THE POOR. I'm amazed that you spew this garbage when you have never lived their or probably have never even lived in a communist nation.

[Marley]

It's called "useful idiot" a time honored tool for communist dictators!

Ultimately, Michael Moore is inadvertantly playing Santa Claus for Republicans.

Anyone who can think rationally understands the gross flaws and irreversability of socialized medicine and fortunately, in spite of public education, most American voters can still think rationally, therefore, if liberals in power and seeking it play to this propaganda of his, 2008 will be a repeat of 1994, except with the White House in play as well.

[exigent]

and then to think their are people like alonzo who regret it makes me SICK.


If you're sick, Cuba can fix you up cheap.

[Marley]

If you're sick, Cuba can fix you up cheap.

Yeah, all those people rushing to get INTO Cuba, for healthcare, that's it, riiiiiiiight.

Face it, in Cuba, if you get sick, and are Cuban, you die.

If you complain you get to die quicker.

[Alonzo]

That is the problem the guy has done ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO HELP THE POOR.

Ok, then I'm sure you can show me statistics that the poor under Batista did that same as the poor under Castro, right?

I'm amazed that you spew this garbage when you have never lived their or probably have never even lived in a communist nation.


And you never lived under Batista, so when comparing the two you don't have the personal experience to do so either.

go protest Castro and then you'll see your self in a prison somewhere.

The same thing would have happened under Batista. You would have been either beaten or shot in the streets, or arrested and possibly tortured.

They have had growing support from the general population since President Batista, who came to power in a coup in 1952, began cracking down with increasing ruthlessness on any signs of dissent.

In one of the worst examples, even some of Batista's supporters expressed concern after police tortured or summarily hanged those suspected of organising a general strike last April.

Some of those killed were still in their teens.

In latter years, he has headed an increasingly ruthless and corrupt police state.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/january/1/newsid_3413000/3413749.stm

That's a news article from 1959.

But fun in Havana did not come free. Batista's thugs protected their patch with sadistic pleasure -- the bodies of those who objected to the corruption or the opulence were often found hanging from lamp posts. By the late 1950s, the chasm between Cuba's fun-loving image and its deadlier underbelly had widened; an evening out could be a disturbing experience. "On the road to pleasure," recalled Cuban writer Enrique Fernando-Mas in Havana Bay, "your driver could turn around at a stoplight and show you photos of bodies bloodied with bullets and young faces ripped apart by tortures so savage -- vividly described by the revolucionario driver -- that the daiquiris, the sweet roast pork, the yummy yams, the fine Havanas, the hot sex, nothing tasted good any more."


http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20040310.CUBA10/TPStory//?pageRequested=all

[ttriber]

Jack is the Only one here I see that has some common sense. Zo your info on how Batista was worse and the articles you have supplied are Beyond Biased there propraganda. For example that theglobeandmail website was basically stating where to go to and see cheap tourist destinations and other spots. The problem with your argument is that you claim Batista has done worse things like hang people from lamp's dont they do that in Arabic Countries? You have no proof just biased cuban manipulated websites that want people to go to tourist destinations in cuba. I've talked to my grandparents about the Batista Regime and they liked him much better then the 48 years of hell that has ravaged that country right know. Batista was in power for no more then 7 years and your gonna flat out tell me that the Batista Regime was much worse then the 48 years of how Castro has treated and abused his people?

No argument Zo you have engaged me in has really suprised me it's all , How the Batista regime was much worse but nothing negative about the Castro Regime. The love you express for Castro is manipulated by most of the websites you get your information from like the BBC the nice and quiet liberal newstation that informs british folks on what is going on around the world.

[Alonzo]

The love you express for Castro

Um....... Ok.
I'm no fan of either, but it's not like Castro replaced an angel. A brutal dictator who improved the living conditions of the poor replaced a brutal dictator whose policy towards the poor was "f_ck em"

Lots of people use the term "brutal dictator" to describe those they love.

Zo your info on how Batista was worse and the articles you have supplied are Beyond Biased there propraganda. For example that theglobeandmail website was basically stating where to go to and see cheap tourist destinations and other spots.

The bbc and the globe and mail are both well respected news sources. Calling them "beyond bias" is absurd. Especially after some of the links you posted.

The problem with your argument is that you claim Batista has done worse things like hang people from lamp's dont they do that in Arabic Countries?

That has exactly what to do with this? We're comparing Batista and Castro. Even if they skin people alive and sell their flesh per pound on the street in Saudi Arabia, that has absolutely nothing to do with Castro and Batista.

Batista was in power for no more then 7 years and your gonna flat out tell me that the Batista Regime was much worse then the 48 years of how Castro has treated and abused his people?


So Castro, over a 7 year period, is better or equal to Batista over a 7 year period? Is that what you're saying?

You have no proof just biased cuban manipulated websites that want people to go to tourist destinations in cuba.

Yup, the BBC, CIA, Globe and Mail, Food and Agriculture department of the U.N., WHO and the Swiss government. All simply Cuban propaganda sites manipulated by Castro from his hospital room.

I've talked to my grandparents about the Batista Regime and they liked him much better then the 48 years of hell that has ravaged that country right know.

What was their economic status? Where they among the minority that shared in his wealth? Did they speak out against Batista? You're saying if you speak out against Castro you will get arrested, but that happened under Batista.

[ttriber]

Before I answer your inaccuracies let me remind you that Before you reply remember to read the post your replying to Zo. Not come up with a few sentences here and a few other's elsewhere to manipulate what I wrote.

The bbc and the globe and mail are both well respected news sources. Calling them "beyond bias" is absurd. Especially after some of the links you posted.

LoL the links I posted actually show the truth, they actually show pictures and information from a cuban who lived their and escaped the regime of Castro's brutal and disgusting abuses. On the other hand the one's you have come up with , If you even glanced at the globe website it mentioned how you can go and get cheap ice cream in certain places and descibed a few tourist destinations and you call that unbiased?


That has exactly what to do with this? We're comparing Batista and Castro. Even if they skin people alive and sell their flesh per pound on the street in Saudi Arabia, that has absolutely nothing to do with Castro and Batista.

It has to do with your bolding on how the Batista Regime used lamps to hang people from one of your so called respected news agencies.

So Castro, over a 7 year period, is better or equal to Batista over a 7 year period? Is that what you're saying?

No what I'm trieng to tell you, If you can read my actual sentences and my point of view is that Castro is much worse then the Batista regime you claim that was so so evil.


Yup, the BBC, CIA, Globe and Mail, Food and Agriculture department of the U.N., WHO and the Swiss government. All simply Cuban propaganda sites manipulated by Castro from his hospital room.

Excuse me but the one's Im calling biased are the BBC,Globe and mail. Those are the one's that have been criticized for their leftist attitudes. The CIA I admire because I know they tried to kill the rotten bastard but they failed to do it because of President Kennedy. I am all for the CIA and any other intelligence agency the US has.


What was their economic status? Where they among the minority that shared in his wealth? Did they speak out against Batista? You're saying if you speak out against Castro you will get arrested, but that happened under Batista.

It's kind of funny because I was expecting this question so here you go. Their economic status was that they were middle class not Rich not poor in between. No they did'nt share his wealth like you claim you have to remember Bastista was a Capitalistic Dictator not a Communist Dictator. No they didn't have to speak out against Batista because my grandfather worked as a Bus Driver and my Grandma worked to raise my parents. What you don't get is that in the Castro Regime people have fled to miami and other nations poor,middle class, & rich. In Batista's regime it was a totally different attitude there was'nt as many immigrants to the USA untill Castro took power and all types of people fled.


From reading what you have wrote you really need some help on what the Castro Regime has done. The inaccuracies you have displayed have encouraged me to believe that you probably dont even know what Castro has done or who the man really is. What I see from your argument is that you have never lived their so what the hell do you know of the Castro Regime? I am here to tell you the Castro Regime is brutal and ruthless and you seem to never mention it .

I also live in Miami,Florida and in the spanish stations down here always talk about the Castro regime and its cruelties. They also go into detail and bring in people who have lived and have even worked for the CIA to talk about Castro and his family.

That is exactly why I would'nt tell anyone to go to cuba to support a country with that much abuse and hate. Nobody here understands how ruthless this man is I lived under him and he was a f*cking bastard. Where do you live Zo I am curious, If you do live in the USA you know none of the abuses I have referred to in other post would happend here. It is a fact.

[Alonzo]

Before I answer your inaccuracies let me remind you that Before you reply remember to read the post your replying to Zo. Not come up with a few sentences here and a few other's elsewhere to manipulate what I wrote.


I read it. I'm not the one accusing someone of loving a person they called a brutal dictator and posted criticism from amnesty of both the u.s. embargo and Cuba using that to justify human rights abuses.

LoL the links I posted actually show the truth, they actually show pictures and information from a cuban who lived their and escaped the regime of Castro's brutal and disgusting abuses. On the other hand the one's you have come up with , If you even glanced at the globe website it mentioned how you can go and get cheap ice cream in certain places and descibed a few tourist destinations and you call that unbiased?


Cuba is a tourist destination. Any article that talks about Cuban tourism, written by an organization that has nothing to do with Cuba, is biased? So if the Wall street journal talks about tourism in Havana, everything they say is biased?

You also link to therealcuba.com. A site that doesn't mention Batista human rights violations, a site that show nice pictures of pre-castro Havana as evidence of Cubas fall (again, I can post ones from pyongyang and detroit if you want. Guarantee you you'll choose the more run down looking of the two). A site that constantly uses loaded terms such as "slave" and things like that. That's not unbiased.

You posted an Amnesty article, which denounced the embargo as making abuses worse. You posted one or two more articles that show rights abuses, something I said happened under both Castro AND Batista. You didn't dispute any of the health statistics other than to dismiss sites like the CIA factbook and WHO as cuban manipulated and innacurate.

It has to do with your bolding on how the Batista Regime used lamps to hang people from one of your so called respected news agencies.


So I would emphasize a Batista abuse when I'm claiming Batista had brutal human rights violations. Seriously, what's wrong with me?

It's kind of funny because I was expecting this question so here you go. Their economic status was that they were middle class not Rich not poor in between. No they did'nt share his wealth like you claim you have to remember Bastista was a Capitalistic Dictator not a Communist Dictator. No they didn't have to speak out against Batista because my grandfather worked as a Bus Driver and my Grandma worked to raise my parents. What you don't get is that in the Castro Regime people have fled to miami and other nations poor,middle class, & rich. In Batista's regime it was a totally different attitude there was'nt as many immigrants to the USA untill Castro took power and all types of people fled.


From reading what you have wrote you really need some help on what the Castro Regime has done. The inaccuracies you have displayed have encouraged me to believe that you probably dont even know what Castro has done or who the man really is. What I see from your argument is that you have never lived their so what the hell do you know of the Castro Regime? I am here to tell you the Castro Regime is brutal and ruthless and you seem to never mention it .

I also live in Miami,Florida and in the spanish stations down here always talk about the Castro regime and its cruelties. They also go into detail and bring in people who have lived and have even worked for the CIA to talk about Castro and his family.

That is exactly why I would'nt tell anyone to go to cuba to support a country with that much abuse and hate. Nobody here understands how ruthless this man is I lived under him and he was a f*cking bastard. Where do you live Zo I am curious, If you do live in the USA you know none of the abuses I have referred to in other post would happend here. It is a fact.

You go on and on about Castro, ignore my refernces to him being brutal and the rights abuses, and refuse to acknowledge anything wrong by Batista. The worst you've done is called him a dictator.

You refer to Castro punishing speech against him, and then say your grandparents never spoke out against Batista, something that would risk the same response as Castro. You say your grandparents were not among the majority poor population of Cuba.

No one denies the upper classes were worse off with Castro. But the poor outnumbered them and their living conditions were worse before, especially among the more remote regions of Cuba.

[ttriber]

Forget it your Facts are distorted if you want to leave it as Batista is worse then Castro that is up to you. If you dont want to take a cuban who lived in cuba for his words that is your problem. I've stated the facts about Castro and you want to debate about how Batista was just as bad but fail to remember he was a capitlist dictator one who was better to his people then Castro has ever been. The Facts are the Facts If you want to play devil's advocate and claim Batista was just as bad that is up to you but I know in my heart that Castro has been much worse then Batista and that is what you fail to see. I don't see how 7 years of Batista's reign has anything to do with how Castro has abused his people since he came to power 48 years ago.

This get's me a bit upset you claiming my grandparents were well off, First off my grandfather worked as a Bus Driver tell me how much you make with that now to support a family. The poor left as well as the middle class & rich during Castro's presidency. None of what you have covered has said this just look at how many people come from cuba to miami just to escape the man.

Cuba is not a tourist Destination it is a Dictatorship that is exactly why I don't want people going their. If you want to go there, go ahead live it up and kiss the Dictator's feet with your money. Hell while your at it take a month break of work and live their with the people and see how the police has neighborhood spies and how if you protest you will be sent to jail. The stuff communist do to take the rights off of the people.

If you want to see statistics about Cuba just go on google and look for Castro's abuses and you will find ton's of links stating what I'm telling you.

[Alonzo]

Forget it your Facts are distorted if you want to leave it as Batista is worse then Castro that is up to you.

All my health care and life expectancy related info came from the CIA, WHO and similar groups. Yet they're distorted? And you're one of the only people I've seen who immediately dismisses the BBC and Globe and Mail as distorted.

I've stated the facts about Castro and you want to debate about how Batista was just as bad but fail to remember he was a capitlist dictator one who was better to his people then Castro has ever been.

You never stated facts on Castro. You stated some facts on Castro's abuses that were never really challenged since the issue was not that Castro is a good leader, but that is human rights abuses are no worse than Batista.

This get's me a bit upset you claiming my grandparents were well off,

I never claimed they were wealthy. I said they weren't poor. If you don't like that then it's your fault for claiming they were middle class.

Cuba is not a tourist Destination it is a Dictatorship that is exactly why I don't want people going their.

Cuba is the second most popular tourist destination for Canadians, and one of the more popular ones for europeans. To say it isn't a tourist destinations is odd to say the least.

The stuff communist do to take the rights off of the people.

It's the stuff communist and capitalist dictators have done on the island.

If you want to see statistics about Cuba just go on google and look for Castro's abuses and you will find ton's of links stating what I'm telling you.


Good, so they'll state what I've said multiple times as well. Problem is, again, I'm not denying Castros abuses, but you're dismissing and denying Batistas.