*Murtha the Crying Senator*

[CheesyMuslim]

Sorry bout that,

1. Sen. Murtha has got to be the weakest Politician in Government.
2. He is a Sen Kerry clone.
3. He is a pathetic leader of American Policy.
4. He is a big cry baby.
5. Give him a bottle and send him home to have a good cry.
6. He thinks that Islam will go away if we go away, what a fool would believe that.
7. We have to show a strong face to our enemies, let them know we will fight them face to face on their soil, and not on ours.
8. If they bring more attacks to American Soil, then we have to step up our attacks on other Islamic Nations.
9. If they escalate this war, we escalate this war, this is the only way.

9.a) And most probably they will.
10. If people like Sen. Murtha are listened to, this world will look like Europe more and more, and will certainly be over taken by the medieval Muslim's religion, dragging this world back in time to the dark ages.


Regards,
SirjamesofTexas

[PittsburghAfterDark]

"We've become the enemy." -John Murtha, American Traitor

Link (http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2003067352_vote17.html)

[CheesyMuslim]

Sorry bout that,

1. John Murtha is a traitor for sure.
2. I heard him say just that this morning on Meet the Press, Tim Russert.
3. He said, "We used to be a force that the people supported but now we are the enemy"
4. As if he has been there asking the people what they think.
5. He's been here crying like a big blubber mouth baby.
6. In America we had 20k murder this last year.
7. Could be they are safer there than here.
8. Murtha has lost his honor to the US Military.
9. And recently he has been making noise as if he wants to be speaker if the Democrats win in November.
10. Like saying, "Save my place at the top if we win in November", isn't that just like a dishonored bastard, what a churlish piece of crap he really, really is.

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

[Churchel]

Jack Murtha knows the military, because he is a vet and is very familliar with how the chain of command works. The guy is right, it is unfortanute that he is routinely misquoted by ameteur spin artists.

I am guessing by the hyper character assasination across the talk radio sheep land that the controlling thinkers have a genuine concern over his speaker of the house bid.

[PittsburghAfterDark]

http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/site_062106/content/truth_detector.Par.0012.ImageFile.jpg

[bobbylien]

Sorry bout that, lol

Calling a war veteran a traitor just because he disagrees with you on the Iraq war is wrong. Its a bad sign when people cant be a critic of this war without being labled a traitor. I disagree with his ideas but calling him a traitor for them.. lol. He is advocating what he believes is best for this country, thats not a traitor, thats a patriot. Chesswars, on the other hand, is an ignorant racist.
One more thing.. aren't these political party forums supposed to be for discussion amongst members of that party? Move this thread.

[sbannon]

Sorry bout that, lol

Calling a war veteran a traitor just because he disagrees with you on the Iraq war is wrong. Its a bad sign when people cant be a critic of this war without being labled a traitor. <snip>

It's typical of spin-masters, I mean republicans, to spread manure like this where it doesn't belong--such as the Democrats (If you are in the Democratic Party and wish to opine please do so here) board.

You can't really blame them though, they displayed in the '04 election campaigns that they have no respect for boundaries nor limits as to how low they'll sink. Any so-called patriot who'll cast terms like "traitor" or "coward" at any of our nation's decorated veterans just to make a point or because they have differing opinions has no idea of what patriotism really is, and supports my belief that the right to vote was a bad idea. We're the greatest nation on Earth, we should have higher standards...

[bobbylien]

supports my belief that the right to vote was a bad idea. We're the greatest nation on Earth, we should have higher standards...

It was once said that democracy is the worst form of government.. except all of the others that have been tried. A democracy will always correct its problems in the long run. You cant just call the system worthless when you don't get everything you want.

[CheesyMuslim]

Sorry bout that,

1. But really, do you think that the American Soldier is the Enemy as Murtha has insisted?
2. We don't plan to stay and keep the oil, their women are ugly, we don't want them either, its hotter than hell, the food sucks.
3. We have no reason to stay but to help them start a New Path.
4. A path to freedoms, with representation.
5. But Murtha says our Men are dieing in vain.
6. That "We've become the Enemy".
7. If we are "The Enemy" as he says, then he should self strip his citizenship, and move to another country, perhaps a third world country.
8. If he believes this, that "We are the Enemy" he is most defiant to this Nation, for which he is a Senator.
9. The is an egregious dishonor and traitorous statement.
10 Seeing our troops are dieing and exchanging their lives for freedom of the Iraqi People.
11. He has to be able to see that his statements are traitorous, and anyone who reads this should be able to see this.
12. I for one wished this wasn't true, but the facts fall where they will.

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

[bobbylien]

Sorry bout that,

1. But really, do you think that the American Soldier is the Enemy as Murtha has insisted?
2. We don't plan to stay and keep the oil, their women are ugly, we don't want them either, its hotter than hell, the food sucks.
3. We have no reason to stay but to help them start a New Path.
4. A path to freedoms, with representation.
5. But Murtha says our Men are dieing in vain.
6. That "We've become the Enemy".
7. If we are "The Enemy" as he says, then he should self strip his citizenship, and move to another country, perhaps a third world country.
8. If he believes this, that "We are the Enemy" he is most defiant to this Nation, for which he is a Senator.
9. The is an egregious dishonor and traitorous statement.
10 Seeing our troops are dieing and exchanging their lives for freedom of the Iraqi People.
11. He has to be able to see that his statements are traitorous, and anyone who reads this should be able to see this.
12. I for one wished this wasn't true, but the facts fall where they will.

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

Sorry bout that,

Saying "We've become the Enemy" was a reference to how the insurgents view us. He isn't accusing us of being the enemy. If he is correct with his views on Iraq, then our soldiers are "dieing in vain". He believes that the war in Iraq is unwinnable and that its a mistake to keep them in Iraq. You are COMPLETELY wrong on your belief that Murtha is calling american soldiers the enemy. Maybe if you got your news from somebody besides rush libaugh and Ann Coulter you wouldnt be so completely oblivious to the facts. Please take Sir out of your name, you are not a knight.

[sbannon]

bobbylien, very well said. I watched Meet The Press this week and it was clear to me what Representative (he's not a Senator) Murtha was saying. That among the Iraqi people at this point, the longer we stay there the more we're 'perceived' and viewed as the enemy, which of-course emboldens and spreads sympathy for the insurgents.

[bobbylien]

bobbylien, very well said. I watched Meet The Press this week and it was clear to me what Representative (he's not a Senator) Murtha was saying. That among the Iraqi people at this point, the longer we stay there the more we're 'perceived' and viewed as the enemy, which of-course emboldens and spreads sympathy for the insurgents.

I just want to say that I don't agree with him on this issue. But I will defend the rights of a war veteran to disagree without having his comments completely taken out of context and be called a traitor.
I watched it too.

[rastaman]

Once a MARINE, ALWAYS A MARINE!!!

These un-Patriotic Neo-conc conservatives and the NAZI's at Faux News can try and SWIFT BOAT Murtha all you want to, however the facts remain that Murtha served his country unlike the CHICKEN HAWK COWARDs of the likes of GWB WHOSE DADDY GOT HIM INTO A CHERRY GUARD UNT NEVER SLATED TO GO TO NAM , FIVE TIME DEFFERMENT CHENEY RAN FROM SERVERING IN NAM, AND THE MERCHANT OF DEATH WHO SKIPPED OUT IN KOREA RUMSFIELD.

[CheesyMuslim]

(bobbylein QUOTE:
"Sorry bout that,

Saying "We've become the Enemy" was a reference to how the insurgents view us. He isn't accusing us of being the enemy. If he is correct with his views on Iraq, then our soldiers are "dieing in vain". He believes that the war in Iraq is unwinnable and that its a mistake to keep them in Iraq. You are COMPLETELY wrong on your belief that Murtha is calling american soldiers the enemy. Maybe if you got your news from somebody besides rush libaugh and Ann Coulter you wouldnt be so completely oblivious to the facts. Please take Sir out of your name, you are not a knight.")


Sorry bout that,

1. So to the insurgents we are the enemy, is this what Murtha was eluding too?
2. Are you serious?
3. Your really saying that huh?
4. I will wait to hear your confirmation before I attack this silly statement.
5. I saw and listened to him say what he said on the Liberal Media Channel CBS, Meet The Press, Tim Russert, its one of the network's of the Democratic Party.
6. How would you know if I haven't been knighted, and have the title Sir?


Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

[AlonzoMourning23]

1. So to the insurgents we are the enemy, is this what Murtha was eluding too?
2. Are you serious?
3. Your really saying that huh?

So, in your world, the insurgents view themselves as the enemy?

That's really a "duh" statement, or at least I thought it was.

[CheesyMuslim]

1. So to the insurgents we are the enemy, is this what Murtha was eluding too?
2. Are you serious?
3. Your really saying that huh?

So, in your world, the insurgents view themselves as the enemy?

That's really a "duh" statement, or at least I thought it was.


Sorry bout that,

1. But duh dude, to the insurgents we have always been the enemy.
2. This is what bobbylein stated, that Murtha was eluding to instead of as I view Murtha's whining as to "The People of Iraq, "WE ARE THE ENEMY"
3. Those who bothered to vote in the elections.
4. Murthas saying those People view us as the enemy now.
5. This is traitorous my liberal spin doctors.
6. You should be ashamed of him Zo, please try to keep up with who has said what okay bud?

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

[sbannon]

SirJamesofTexas, you seem to have trouble with facts--like declaring Representative Murtha was a Senator. Let me help you with some others as well:

Meet The Press is an MSNBC production, not of CBS and hardly an arm of liberal democrats considering that G.E./MSNBC collectively donated over $3.5 million to Bush's election fund.

Until we invaded Iraq there were no insurgents nor Al Qaeda there. So why wouldn't they see us as the enemy?

Once again, Rep. Murtha was not literally saying "American soldiers are the enemy", he was explaining that given the political climate and social hardships endured by the people of Iraq it's reached a point where the longer we stay now the more common Iraqi people are viewing us as the enemy and that's fostering more support for the insurgents.

Now, you can agree or disagree with Murtha's position, that's perfectly acceptable when done with respect and manners. However, when you belittle the service of any decorated veteran just because his point of view is different from your own what you're actually doing is dishonoring the sacrifices of all veterans, you might as well be using Old Glory as TP in your outhouse.

I can shorten that a bit to make it easier; disagree with his views but respect his and all veteran's service. They've earned it.

[bobbylien]

Once a MARINE, ALWAYS A MARINE!!!

These un-Patriotic Neo-conc conservatives and the NAZI's at Faux News can try and SWIFT BOAT Murtha all you want to, however the facts remain that Murtha served his country unlike the CHICKEN HAWK COWARDs of the likes of GWB WHOSE DADDY GOT HIM INTO A CHERRY GUARD UNT NEVER SLATED TO GO TO NAM , FIVE TIME DEFFERMENT CHENEY RAN FROM SERVERING IN NAM, AND THE MERCHANT OF DEATH WHO SKIPPED OUT IN KOREA RUMSFIELD.

We all know what you think, nobody cares, you are just as radical as chesswars(just on the left side). I'm so sick of radicals.

[PittsburghAfterDark]

I'll say it again.

Lee Harvey Oswald and Charles Whitman were also Marines.

Do you praise them as well?

[bobbylien]

I'll say it again.

Lee Harvey Oswald and Charles Whitman were also Marines.

Do you praise them as well?

I'm not praising him for anything. I am saying that calling him a traitor based on a comment he made which has been TOTALLY taken out of context is wrong. He does deserve respect for being a Marine though.

[CheesyMuslim]

Sorry bout that,

1. But nobody has a protective shield in this world from the slings and arrows when they are a politician when they screw up and say some traitorous things about another aspect of the governing body of the USA.
2. His point he is trying to make is we've worn out our welcome in Iraq.
3. But he has been doing it at the expense of the honor of the Military.
4. JF Kerry does the same thing, (" Our Military go into Iraqi homes at the middle of the night to terrorize women and children, we should be leaving this up to the Iraqi Police to do this now.")
5. Am I wrong to attack any person who is a Veteran, who is a traitor, even some one like Oswald?
6. Like PAD said, he was a veteran.
7. This shield of protection created by the Liberals is getting rather old.
8. In reality there's no protective shield protecting these traitors, and if they want to stand up and say these kind of statements against our Military, that's their choice, but if they think we will not attack them rightly so, they are out of their minds.
9. Murtha and his ilk, have to learn how to debate this topic, without crossing the line.
10. If he would of said simply that, "We have worn out our welcome", that would of been enough, but he said we are considered the "ENEMY", this is where he crossed the ethical line.
11. This is his way he wanted to sound, "We are the Enemy!!!!"
12. This places him strictly on a traitorous stance.
13. If we were the enemy, we wouldn't be putting on trial some of our Military for offing some Iraqi civilians.
14. In my view, mistakes happened in the heat of War, no ones perfect in a heated situation
15. These Men are not perfect, and much should be forgiven them.

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

[sbannon]

PittsburghAfterDark, the obvious difference is that Oswald and Whitman chose to take their skills and training and become murderers. Murtha has converted his experience into a post military career of continued public service. And while many can find reason to disagree with his positions, I would ask you or anyone to point out what heinous crime Murtha has committed that would warrant the lack of respect he's been shown by those who call him traitor? Ditto with regards to Kerry.

SirJamesofTexas, you've slipped from reality... please return. Murtha stating what other's opinions of us has become is "crossing the ethical line" in your opinion? Does the truth hurt that much that you're afraid to hear it?

Displaying respect and the proper manners that your mother should have learned you when speaking to or of any veteran is not a "protective shield", it's a common courtesy that's been earned. Then again, as I pointed out earlier many republicans have clearly shown they won't be contained by their own ignorance.

[PittsburghAfterDark]

Treason, it's not a protected right in the U.S. Constitution.

Article III

Section 1. The judicial power of the United States, shall be vested in one Supreme Court, and in such inferior courts as the Congress may from time to time ordain and establish. The judges, both of the supreme and inferior courts, shall hold their offices during good behaviour, and shall, at stated times, receive for their services, a compensation, which shall not be diminished during their continuance in office.

Section 2. The judicial power shall extend to all cases, in law and equity, arising under this Constitution, the laws of the United States, and treaties made, or which shall be made, under their authority;--to all cases affecting ambassadors, other public ministers and consuls;--to all cases of admiralty and maritime jurisdiction;--to controversies to which the United States shall be a party;--to controversies between two or more states;--between a state and citizens of another state;--between citizens of different states;--between citizens of the same state claiming lands under grants of different states, and between a state, or the citizens thereof, and foreign states, citizens or subjects.

In all cases affecting ambassadors, other public ministers and consuls, and those in which a state shall be party, the Supreme Court shall have original jurisdiction. In all the other cases before mentioned, the Supreme Court shall have appellate jurisdiction, both as to law and fact, with such exceptions, and under such regulations as the Congress shall make.

The trial of all crimes, except in cases of impeachment, shall be by jury; and such trial shall be held in the state where the said crimes shall have been committed; but when not committed within any state, the trial shall be at such place or places as the Congress may by law have directed.

Section 3. Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying war against them, or in adhering to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort. No person shall be convicted of treason unless on the testimony of two witnesses to the same overt act, or on confession in open court.

The Congress shall have power to declare the punishment of treason, but no attainder of treason shall work corruption of blood, or forfeiture except during the life of the person attainted.
Linky Linky! (http://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/constitution.articleiii.html)

There you go.

[sbannon]

And of-course your personal opinion of his committing treason negates the usual requirement of a trial to establish guilt because... why?

You say he's committed treason, I say he hasn't and guess what--until proven guilty I'm right. So, he continues to deserve the proper respect of an American veteran.

[PittsburghAfterDark]

He deserves no respect.

That's earned, not given.

He hasn't earned any respect from me.

You can find more than 2 people to collaborate his treason but no one with the 10 pound steel balls to charge him with it.

[bobbylien]

Chesswars, stop using that quote.. he didn't even say that.
This is what he said:
“Our troops have become the enemy. We need to change direction in Iraq.�
Sounds to me like hes just against the war. Thats not a traitor.

10. If he would of said simply that, "We have worn out our welcome", that would of been enough, but he said we are considered the "ENEMY", this is where he crossed the ethical line.
That is what he said. You have been quoting him wrong, don't listen to Rush, he will ALWAYS mislead you.

[sbannon]

PAD, as a veteran who served our nation he has earned respect. With a continued career in public service--regardless of whether you agree with his party or positions--he has earned respect.

But I get it, as you say, he hasn't earned it from you. So let me ask, you don't seem to feel that our nation's veterans are deserving of respect and you don't seem to believe in a presumption of innocence until proven guilty in a court of law since you're so free to label a man who hasn't even been charged as a traitor without due process--so, is there anything about America that you do like?

I mean, other than the freedom you have and use to spout vicious, malicious and twisted rhetoric that the sacrifices of so many veterans has provided you.

Seriously, honoring and respecting our veterans, being presumed innocent until proven guilty... these are fundamental staples in core American values, yet you don't seem to care for them. So I ask, not to be facetious but as an honest inquiry, what--if anything--about America do you believe in or value?

[Labrocca]

Nice rebuttle Sbannon...I wonder what PAD is gonna come back with.

[bobbylien]

You can find more than 2 people to collaborate his treason but no one with the 10 pound steel balls to charge him with it.

You can't charge someone with treason for just saying something you don't like. If that were the case. Every radical group in this country would be charged with treason. What about free speech? He is allowed to say whatever the fuck he wants to. He is just against the war.

[CheesyMuslim]

Sorry bout that,

1. But Murtha has to realize that he is aiding the other side of this war on Islam, by siding with them, (He's aiding The ENEMY) and trying to convert the American minds to his position that we are The Enemy now of all Iraqi's. Article III Section 3, its a slam dunk, that's what he's doing, I know you can't see this, for the protective shield you have placed over him, but the fact is he's a traitor bud.
2. I know this is hard to swallow, but if it was a Republican doing this it wouldn't be so difficult.
3. If this was placed in the context of either WWII or WWI, if would be the same type of treason.
4. " Our men need to leave Germany, the people there now look at us as the Enemy! Sure that is a bit over the top, but is a fair comparison, because many Germans didn't know what their government was doing to the Jews, they thought they were just in forced labor camps.
5. War is a tricky thing, as far as how our politicians talk of this war, when they disagree with it, policy and wills and determination in completing the Mission are what's at stake, and while our troops are engaged in combat zones if you are a politician who is supplanting the Mission you are treading on a treasonous platform.
6. This kind of treason from the Democrats is why we failed to get the Win in Vietnam.
7. Vietnam would of been another Japan economically, if we didn't have so many traitors like JF Kerry and many others going onto the political Stage and saying traitorous statements, to aid the Enemy.
8. Both these politicians voted to act in this war on Iraq, when the votes were counted, this hypocrisy is so prevalent in the Democratic Liberal two faced reality.
9. This is why the Liberals have to die off as a Party.

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

[sbannon]

chesswarsnow, I'll address your points one by one and hope that helps you comprehend.

1. We aren't at war with Islam. This isn't a modern day crusade my friend.
2. I have a long (and published) history of differing with Republican officials, yet never have I lost my civility when speaking or writing of them and lowered myself to reckless and vicious name-calling. You see, I understand that just because my political views differ from someone that doesn't give me the right to slander nor libel them, and because I was raised with manners I still display proper respect to everyone who serves our country--both in uniform and in public service.
3 & 4. The post-WWII climate in Europe was far different than that of Iraq today so it's not a fair comparison. I won't take this debate down that road, it's pointless.
5. Did you feel the same when republicans made 'morale busting' comments while our troops were involved in combat zones and hot spots during the Clinton administration? If not, you must believe in double standards then, and that's un-American. Here's just a few comments that came from just one republican during those times, Rep. Delay:
a) The President began this mission with vary vague objectives and lots of unanswered questions
b) There was no strategic plan for the war when the President started this thing, and there still is no plan today
c) American foreign policy is now one huge mystery
d) You can support the troops but not the president
6. You've slipped from reality again. It was the failed policies of a republican president, Nixon, which marked the turning point and eventually led to the full withdrawal (was that a cut-n-run move) of American troops in Nam.
7. I have to ask your age now, were you around during this era and if so, do you remember the nation's climate? Those who spoke out against our foreign policies in Nam didn't incite the masses from their stages, the masses built them the stages to speak from. The nation wanted Washington to listen to and follow the will of the people, as a representative government should.
8. So in your mind, nobody can make a mistake? I'm sure you've never made a wrong decision, perhaps based on some faulty information for which you were later sorry? If not you're a lucky one and must guide your life with a crystal ball as most people have made poor choices at one time or another in their lives.
9. Let me make sure I read this correctly, you believe that half of America's population should die? I thought only the Al Queda felt this way...

[rastaman]

He deserves no respect.

That's earned, not given.

He hasn't earned any respect from me.

You can find more than 2 people to collaborate his treason but no one with the 10 pound steel balls to charge him with it.


PAD give it rest, Murtha is a decorated 30 year Marine Vet who saw combat in Korea and Nam.Â*Â*Who the hell are you to decide who has earned respect and who hasn't.Â*Â*You show your true close minded colors with your rabid hatred and disrepect towards MURTHA - a fellow veteran.Â*Â*

Yet you let slide the Chicken Hawk behavior of the likes of 5 time deferment Cheney to avoid serving in NAM!! and Bush Jr, himself who had his DADDY! pull strings so he could go to a Cherry Guard Unit never slated to deploy to NAM!!Â*Â*Just think Bush was able to leap frog over other guys trying to get into the same Cherry Guard Unit.Â*Â*I guess a poor slob was probably shipped out to NAM b/c GW Bush took his slot.

Yet you (PAD) groval and kneel at the feet of these 2 cowards.Â*Â*Bush and Cheney turned their back on their country when their country call upon them to serve in NAM.Â*Â*Cheney is on record to have gleefully stated when asked why he needed 5 deferrments to avoid NAM--Cheney stated "He had better things to do with his time!!Â*Â*

Bush did not have the intestinal fortitude nor integrity to serve out his time in the guard honorably and was even suspended from flight duty because he would not take his physical.Â*Â*Hmmm I wonder why?Â*Â*Could it be Bush failed to take his physical to remain eligible for flight duty b/c he knew he would fail due to his drug habit??Â*Â*After all it was the sixties everyone was doing drugs!!:cool:

Now Bush and Cheney can only say "Stay the Course"---"We can't Cut and Run!!!Â*Â*Yet these 2 Chicken Hawks did just the opposite when their turn came to serve their COUNTRY.Â*Â*What Freakin HYPROCRITES.

[CheesyMuslim]

Sorry bout that,

1. Murtha is subverting American Policy, which is what Kerry does.
2. There's ways to disagree, he disagrees incorrectly.
3. When Clinton went to war on the Christians in Bosnia, I felt shocked, and in wonder why that everyone thought that this was okay.
3.1. But I didn't protest it, it was his little War.
3. 2. An has left a stain of the Democrats that won't wash off.
3.3. This is one reason why they have fallen from grace.
4.4. Gawd hasn't forgotten what the Clinton Administration did, and is for.
4. The Muslims there inspired the conflict, and the Christians were fed up.
5. Who's to say this won't happen in France next month?
6. Or any other Nation on Earth, as far as that goes.
7. This is a war on Islam, and its not a take over and put the people in subjection, its a bash and whack kind of war.
8. This is a Biblical Conflict now, and will escalate more and more.
8. We really don't need anything the Muslims have to offer.
9. We could make it without another barrel of their oil.
10. We got plans.
11. We will soon put a clamp down on Islam, never doubt me.
12. Islams oil days are just about over.
13. Just like the Democrats, and I am not saying to kill the Democrats, but that their Party must die off.
13. 1. They have corrupted themselves before Gawd.


Regards
SirjamesofTexas

[bobbylien]

Stop calling it "Nam" Ratasman. You didn't fight in vietnam. Your just another radical teenager.

[bobbylien]

Sorry bout that,

1. Murtha is subverting American Policy, which is what Kerry does.
2. There's ways to disagree, he disagrees incorrectly.
3. When Clinton went to war on the Christians in Bosnia, I felt shocked, and in wonder why that everyone thought that this was okay.
3.1. But I didn't protest it, it was his little War.
3. 2. An has left a stain of the Democrats that won't wash off.
3.3. This is one reason why they have fallen from grace.
4.4. Gawd hasn't forgotten what the Clinton Administration did, and is for.
4. The Muslims there inspired the conflict, and the Christians were fed up.
5. Who's to say this won't happen in France next month?
6. Or any other Nation on Earth, as far as that goes.
7. This is a war on Islam, and its not a take over and put the people in subjection, its a bash and whack kind of war.
8. This is a Biblical Conflict now, and will escalate more and more.
8. We really don't need anything the Muslims have to offer.
9. We could make it without another barrel of their oil.
10. We got plans.
11. We will soon put a clamp down on Islam, never doubt me.
12. Islams oil days are just about over.
13. Just like the Democrats, and I am not saying to kill the Democrats, but that their Party must die off.
13. 1. They have corrupted themselves before Gawd.


Regards
SirjamesofTexas

You need to stop with the racism, this isn't a crusade.(maybe it is in your head) You are pushing for a war on Islam. Every single ignorant post you make just proves how redneck racist you really are.

[rastaman]

Stop calling it "Nam" Ratasman. You didn't fight in vietnam. Your just another radical teenager.


Yo Jack Bauer, I'll call it whatever I please.Â*Â*Since when does serving in NAM as deciding factor on whether you can use the word NAM.Â*Â*Go ahead and answer:

[sbannon]

SirjamesofTexas, all I can say is... Wow, and good luck with those ideas of yours.

[CheesyMuslim]

Sorry bout that,

1. I'm no racist, I am just telling it the way I see it.
2. I don't have any personal grief for the Muslims.
2. 1. But I won't ever forgive them for 911.
3. This is far bigger than me.
4. Whats happening is just the beginning.
5. I don't enjoy seeing it.
6. You folks need to wake up.

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

[bobbylien]

Yo Jack Bauer, I'll call it whatever I please. Since when does serving in NAM as deciding factor on whether you can use the word NAM. Go ahead and answer:

It is considered an insult to call it Nam if you didn't serve in Vietnam.

[CheesyMuslim]

Sorry bout that,

1. Murtha is subverting American Policy, which is what Kerry does.
2. There's ways to disagree, he disagrees incorrectly.
3. When Clinton went to war on the Christians in Bosnia, I felt shocked, and in wonder why that everyone thought that this was okay.
3.1. But I didn't protest it, it was his little War.
3. 2. An has left a stain of the Democrats that won't wash off.
3.3. This is one reason why they have fallen from grace.
4.4. Gawd hasn't forgotten what the Clinton Administration did, and is for.
4. The Muslims there inspired the conflict, and the Christians were fed up.
5. Who's to say this won't happen in France next month?
6. Or any other Nation on Earth, as far as that goes.
7. This is a war on Islam, and its not a take over and put the people in subjection, its a bash and whack kind of war.
8. This is a Biblical Conflict now, and will escalate more and more.
8. We really don't need anything the Muslims have to offer.
9. We could make it without another barrel of their oil.
10. We got plans.
11. We will soon put a clamp down on Islam, never doubt me.
12. Islams oil days are just about over.
13. Just like the Democrats, and I am not saying to kill the Democrats, but that their Party must die off.
13. 1. They have corrupted themselves before Gawd.


Regards
SirjamesofTexas




Sorry bout that,

1. Just that you could be for warned, take a look.
2. Like I been saying, this war has only just begun.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/5111248.stm

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

[Labrocca]

Nice poll sirjames...

Yeah it's easy to see that a religious war could happen. Will it? Not sure..but it's something on the table right now. However I have a feeling that it will be Muslims vs everyone and that the Muslims will get spanked badly. They even are plotting against the Canadians...

If it wasn't for the Oil money the Arabs got from us they would be as screwed as the Africans. No one seems to give a damn about their ethnic cleansing, human rights violations, and mass starvation. One day I hope that Oil will be less required for energy. Most likely that will start a war though because the Arabs will use their last resources to screw themselves. It's all very novelish actually. I expect a few good neo-future books could be written on the subject.

[bobbylien]

No one seems to give a damn about their ethnic cleansing, human rights violations, and mass starvation.

All of which are a result of fascism and not the muslim religion. Islam is as peacefull as christianity. The problem is the clerics who are twisting the words of the prophets to gain power. The roman catholic church has done the same thing throughout history.

[CheesyMuslim]

Sorry bout that,

1. Sugar coat it how ever you want, fascism, radical wing, insurgents, splinter group, 911 conspirators, how ever you see it, its not going away any time soon.
2. Its here in USA even, some black Muslims in Miami recently, had some plans.
3. Ever wonder why 15 of the 20, 911 conspirators were from Saudia Arabia?
4. Saudi Arbia is home base.
5. All the really big missions will be sent forth from there.
6. This has got to be our main focus over the time of this war.
7. The sooner we pull back from the oil spickett, the sooner we will be able to dissolve their hold on our way of life.
8. Having this great need for their product, allows them to get away with murder, and debauchery.
9. This is a crime in itself, we for allowing it and them for acting on it.
10. This lowers all humanity respectful thresholds, this is why we see whats going on in Africa.
11. In Africa, where oil is now king, lives have become expendable, its all for the oil, and who controls it, and these jungle boogie proclaimed kings who are not even a step up from voodoo spells yet, will kill and cut off your head if you even think you deserve some of the revenue of the oil monies.
12. All this in emulation of the Saudi kings.

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

[AlonzoMourning23]

The only way there'd be a war between christians and muslims is if extremists like chess took control of the west. The west has the power and the biggest threat for such a war is its own trigger happiness. Even if the Islamic world wanted a war with the west, they don't have the military power to initiate it if and they know that, but such a thing isn't even desired. In the end, the actions of the west (and Israel) determine how far right the middle east tips. While, often the actions of a very few extremists muslims determine how far right the west goes.

And, Chess, the people arrested in Chicago were not Muslim. They did not attend any mosques, studied the bible, and their primary religious figure was Jesus. They also sometimes wore a star of David on their arms. It had Islamic influences, but Christianity seems the most central aspect.

[CheesyMuslim]

Sorry bout that,

1. Sure blame all the world problems on me, and my way of thinking.
2. What a cop out.
3. Sure I am the one who is controlling the Muslims to attack white Christians.
4. Sure I make it all happen, because I am white and Christian.
5. Islam is in war with the West, but its a feeble attempt, because they are a feeble people.
5.a) Thats why they kidnap people and cut their heads of in a secret place, where they film the grizzly act, in defiance to everything decent, which they are not decent, at all.
6. How long will Americans stay still is the real question.
6.a) If I were in power Zo,this war would all ready be over, all but the clean up.
7. One day when the new Nazi knocks on your door you will remember me.
8. The New Nazi is Islamic.

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

[AlonzoMourning23]

So this is not only a religious war, but a race war too?

Though your way of thinking is growing in the west, and it's the same way of thinking adopted by the radicals you think constitute all of Islam.

[CheesyMuslim]

Sorry bout that,

1. But yes the Nation of Islam says that I the white devil, is the one who is keeping them all down.
2. I am no devil.
3. I refuse to allow them to get under my radar either.
4. Nation of Islam has an idea to take this Nation, and turn it into Islamic.
5. Screw that.
6. They are the fools we need to be watching.

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

[wonder cow]

Murtha knew he was not safe making these criticisms of the radical and absurd foreign policy of this coward filled, draft dodging administration.

Why would the fact that he served honorably in the military during war time earn him any respect or reprieve from these slime sucking dogs?

It didn't stop them from ruthlessly attacking Max Cleland, so much as calling him a traitor, a man who left two limbs in Vietnam whilst 'W' was back home with his frat buddies smoking dope and getting high.

It didn't stop them from attacking McCain in the 2000 primaries, with absurd claims that he didn't really try very hard while in captivity. But of course Bush could stand by and watch his hired goon make these accusations and then come back later and say he never said it.

And we see what they did to Kerry with all that swiftboat nonsense.

I think Murtha was fully aware of what was coming when he dared to defy King George. He knew what the political costs would be to himself, but he decided to stand on principal anyway. Something that Bush and the rest of the "bring it on" chicken hawk gang could never understand.

[AlonzoMourning23]

Sorry bout that,

1. But yes the Nation of Islam says that I the white devil, is the one who is keeping them all down.
2. I am no devil.
3. I refuse to allow them to get under my radar either.
4. Nation of Islam has an idea to take this Nation, and turn it into Islamic.
5. Screw that.
6. They are the fools we need to be watching.

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas


Nation of Islam has nothing to do with mainstream Islam. Mainstream Islam does not believe in any form of racial superiority or inferiority. This was witnessed even by Malcolm X who turned against the nation of Islam when he made his pilgramige to Mecca and was amazed by how people were not divided by race.

The Nation of Islam believes blacks were created first and then whites came later, mainstream Islam has no such teaching. The Nation of Islam has a history of teaching racial superiority, although it is no longer part of the official teaching. The National of Islam could be considered akin to very early Christianity, as they were still Jewish but believed the messiah (jesus) had come and had some different teachings and beliefs. In Islam the messiah has not come, but in the nation of Islam the Messiah came in the form of Elijah Muhammad and with him new teachings.

You, sir james, are the fool here.

[CheesyMuslim]

Sorry bout that,

1. But Zo, bud, err,... so I am the fool for knowing how things are huh?
2. You want to get into a insult contest I see.
3. This is frowned upon here,..remember?
4. If I were a fool, I wouldn't be able to know all this.
5. So in a way I just bested you there bud.
6. You wanna call me the Whitey devil?
7. Sure you do.

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

[AlonzoMourning23]

Sorry bout that,

1. But Zo, bud, err,... so I am the fool for knowing how things are huh?
2. You want to get into a insult contest I see.
3. This is frowned upon here,..remember?
4. If I were a fool, I wouldn't be able to know all this.
5. So in a way I just bested you there bud.
6. You wanna call me the Whitey devil?
7. Sure you do.

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas


Chess, you attacked the followers of a religion by calling them fools, and the ironic part was that your argument was entirely based on your total lack of knowledge of Islam, you don't even know the most basic beliefs. The nation of Islam and the Islam of the middle east are very, very different. It's like comparing early Christianity and Judaism.

And, by your answers, I assume you think the war on terror is not only a religious war, but also a race war?

[CheesyMuslim]

Sorry bout that,

1. But no I didn't attack Islam with name calling, just stating the facts, not on attack mode.
2. If I were attacking I would say much more.
3. In America they are making it a race war, I am not.
4. There is so many pitfalls to Islam I need say nothing much.

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

[AlonzoMourning23]

Sorry bout that,

1. But no I didn't attack Islam with name calling, just stating the facts, not on attack mode.
2. If I were attacking I would say much more.
3. In America they are making it a race war, I am not.
4. There is so many pitfalls to Islam I need say nothing much.

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas


You confused Islam with the Nation of Islam, and think that someone shows your intelligence.

The NOI is viewed by some Muslims as deviant. The reason cited is that The NOI has taught that God would manifest himself in a human being (Wallace Fard Muhammad) — in Islam, the most central article of faith is the statement, "There is no god but Allah, and Muhammad is His Prophet". Some Muslims have used the pejorative term Farrakhanism to express ridicule of the organization.

Like mainstream Islam, The Nation of Islam preaches adherence to the Five Pillars of the Islamic Faith: salat, or prayer, five times daily facing toward Mecca; zakat il-fitr, charity to the poor; fasting during the holy month of Ramadan; and that every Muslim who is physically and financially able must make Hajj, the pilgrimage to Mecca, at least once in his or her lifetime. The NOI also teaches morality and personal decorum, emphasizing modesty, mutual respect, and discipline in dress and comportment. NOI adherents do not consume pork, stress a healthy diet and physical fitness, and the consumption of alcohol, drugs, and tobacco is frowned upon. In these respects, the NOI is in general agreement with traditional Islamic tradition. However, the Nation of Islam argues that because of the unique experience of the oppression and degradation of slavery, Elijah Muhammad used unique methods for introducing Islam to his people.

In other matters, NOI teachings diverge markedly from mainstream Islam.

God's incarnation

NOI teaches that "Allah (God) appeared in the Person of Master W. Fard Muhammad, July, 1930; the long-awaited Messiah of the Christians and the Mahdi of the Muslims.

Mainstream Islam teaches that it is heretical and blasphemous to believe that God would manifest Himself in human form (or any material form).

Resurrection of the dead

NOI teaches the resurrection of the dead—not in physical resurrection—but in mental resurrection. They believe that the Black man and woman of America are most in need of mental resurrection; therefore they will be resurrected first.

Mainstream Islam teaches that there will literally be a physical resurrection of the billions of physically dead people worldwide, and that resurrected souls (or bodies) will be sent to paradise or hell.

Relations with Caucasians

NOI teaches that the Blackman is the original man of the planet Earth and that Caucasians were created by a grafting (selective breeding) process devised by a scientist named Yakub and allowed by God to dominate and rule all people of the world for a period of 6,000 years. They teach that as Muslims, Caucasians are their brothers in the faith of Islam and should be honored as such.

Mainstream Islam teaches that all races are created equal in the eyes of God. All people are born as Muslims (but many digress from the right path due to a lack of knowledge or were born into families of unbelievers). Islam recognizes the Biblical and Qur’anic figure, the patriarch Jacob, but this Jacob is viewed by Muslims as a prophet, and is not connected to the Yakub of the NOI. Traditional Islam does not teach of Yakub as it exists in Nation of Islam theology.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nation_of_Islam#Divergence_from_traditional_Islam

[CheesyMuslim]

Sorry bout that,

1. But I am not confused, Islam is.
2. This religion needs to re-think itself.
3. I can not even begin to say what I think on this.
4. Also I see you have gone off topic on this Thread.
5. Islam can keep Islam, I will have no part of it.
6. And another thing, these sect are way to busy killing off each other, just something I've noticed, Shiites, Sunnies, etc, etc.

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

[Buck Laser]

As a latecomer to this thread, I have to wonder why no one has bothered to point out that Murtha is a congressman, not a senator. If everyone pontificating here misses that little fact, I have to wonder just how much collective political wisdom is present here.

[CheesyMuslim]

As a latecomer to this thread, I have to wonder why no one has bothered to point out that Murtha is a congressman, not a senator.Â*Â*If everyone pontificating here misses that little fact, I have to wonder just how much collective political wisdom is present here.


Sorry bout that,

1. My bad, it has been noted.
2. Try reading the whole thread there genius.

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

[ECW]

I read the entire thread and I still don't see why you were allowed to post your rightwing whine in the Democratic Forum. Are you a Democrat now? If you are not, you blatently broke the rules. Can I start posting Bush Bashes in your forum?

[PittsburghAfterDark]

I moved it here.

The politician in question is a Democrat. Originally it was in the Republican forum

If you wish to blame someone, blame me.

[Drocket]

This is something that I was thinking about asking about the other day, when I posted a thread about Ted Stephens:

Description of the 'Democrats' forum:Â*Â*"If you are in the Democratic Party and wish to opine please do so here."Â*Â*The Republican forum has a similar description.

Based on that description, this thread most definitely does NOT belong in this forum.Â*Â*It probably would make the most sense to have a forum for discussion Republican politicians,Â*Â*and a forum for discussion Democratic politicians, but as things stand, that's simply not how things are set up.

[PittsburghAfterDark]

We've debated this back and forth as staff.

As it stands now it's pretty much mudslinging one way or another.

No one is posting partisan critiques of their own party or platform oriented issues meant to bolster sentiment for leaders or party positions.

We've pretty much thrown up our hands for the time being and are at an impasse at how to handle it. There's a section for site feedback.

If you guys are unhappy with the format please make suggestions.

[Drocket]

No one is posting partisan critiques of their own party or platform oriented issues meant to bolster sentiment for leaders or party positions.
With nearly 1/3 of the mudslinging threads here in the Democrat forum being started by a staff member (you), I can't help but to wonder what on earth gave people the idea that these forums were for mudslinging...

If you guys are unhappy with the format please make suggestions.
Change the description of the forums to be what they actually are: discussion about the politicians/policies of party X.

[CheesyMuslim]

I read the entire thread and I still don't see why you were allowed to post your rightwing whine in the Democratic Forum. Are you a Democrat now? If you are not, you blatently broke the rules. Can I start posting Bush Bashes in your forum?


Sorry bout that,

1. Sure post away as far as I am concerned.
2. Hey you came from DP, I see, I was banned from there without a cause, they have blocked me from getting in without a formal banning, the owners a Liar, he's a Liberal Rino type.
3. I used to have a lot of fun over there driving the Liberals crazy.
4. Tell them I miss them for me eh bud?
5. They started seeing how I was renting to much head space in their minds, and wanted me gone.
6. My over powering views were wearing them all collectively down.
7. Over time I tend to always do this.

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

[PittsburghAfterDark]

With nearly 1/3 of the mudslinging threads here in the Democrat forum being started by a staff member (you), I can't help but to wonder what on earth gave people the idea that these forums were for mudslinging...

If you take news articles about Democrats as mudslinging I can't help alter your perception of reality.

The world does not revolve around Pravda/Izvestia/Tass type coverage about Democrats.Â*Â*If you want 100% favorable coverage of your party, move to Cuba or North Korea.Â*Â*You'll get it all the time.

If can't accept news that may be negative or statements by party leaders that are tantamount to idiocy that's a "your problem" not a "my problem".

Your complaint is based in political fanboyism, not fact.

[AlonzoMourning23]

Sorry bout that,

1. But I am not confused, Islam is.
2. This religion needs to re-think itself.
3. I can not even begin to say what I think on this.


So when something is beyond your comprehension (ie. not all groups claiming to be Islamic actually have the same beliefs) then it's because they're confused? It's all them, not you, right?

[AlonzoMourning23]

If you take news articles about Democrats as mudslinging I can't help alter your perception of reality.....

If can't accept news that may be negative or statements by party leaders that are tantamount to idiocy that's a "your problem" not a "my problem".


What part of this op is a news story? Where are the statements by party leaders?

1. Sen. Murtha has got to be the weakest Politician in Government.
2. He is a Sen Kerry clone.
3. He is a pathetic leader of American Policy.
4. He is a big cry baby.
5. Give him a bottle and send him home to have a good cry.
6. He thinks that Islam will go away if we go away, what a fool would believe that.
7. We have to show a strong face to our enemies, let them know we will fight them face to face on their soil, and not on ours.
8. If they bring more attacks to American Soil, then we have to step up our attacks on other Islamic Nations.
9. If they escalate this war, we escalate this war, this is the only way.

9.a) And most probably they will.
10. If people like Sen. Murtha are listened to, this world will look like Europe more and more, and will certainly be over taken by the medieval Muslim's religion, dragging this world back in time to the dark ages.

The OP needed help from others to get a link into this thread, and that story barely mentioned murtha.

[CheesyMuslim]

Sorry bout that,

1. But yes they Islamics are confused, not me.
2. Look how they murder each other in Iraq, for no apparent reason.
3. Some old blood feud, is more like it.
4. Why are they blowing each other up at about 300 per month?
5. They are all Muslims, right?
6. Why so much hatred?
7. While John Murtha is egging them on.
8. Buy siding with their cause, saying our men are worn down, scared, breathless, delirious, unsafe.
9. This kind of leadership leads to ruin.
10 John Murtha and John Kerry has no credibility, whatsoever!

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas