Dennis Kuicinich

[fpwarriors65]

I personally am a huge dennis fan. i grew up and live in Cleveland, so maybe that impacts my thoughts anout him. I think he knows what is right for this country. Also when looking at a president i think the if iraq really is the hot ticket then someone who voted against the war to begin with should be placed in office. Hillary is terrible, personally i would vote for jsut about any Republican before i voted for Hilary. For me the Democratic Presidental race should be between the three best, and in my mind that is Barrack Obama, John Edwards, and Dennis Kuicinich.

[NortheastCynic]

Kuccinich is extremely genuine, I'll give him that...Although one can afford to be genuine when one knows that one has zero chance of winning any kind of national election. I'd never vote for Kuccinich [as his socialist viewpoints are in direct contrast with my extremely free-market ones], but I do respect him.

-NC

[fpwarriors65]

i know he has zero cahnce of winning, he does have extremly good ideas i feel though and they should be considered, but like both of us said he won't win and we all know it

[preservanation]

At least he is up front and honest which is more than you can say about the rest of the Dem field.

[PatrickHenry]

I like his idea of having a cabinet level Secretary of Peace

[preservanation]

I like his idea of having a cabinet level Secretary of Peace

We already have a Department of peace.
It's called the US Military.

[Truth_and_Power]

I like his idea of having a cabinet level Secretary of Peace

We already have a Department of peace.
It's called the US Military.


That's the department of "Defense". You know, where we "defend" the freedom of americans in iraq, south america, et. al..

[PatrickHenry]

I like his idea of having a cabinet level Secretary of Peace

We already have a Department of peace.
It's called the US Military.
Heh. A unique viewpoint. I believe the Defense Department is a former cabinet level Secretariat renamed from the title Secretary of War/War Department.

Are you familiar with George Orwell and the slogans of the Party in his novel 1984? Specifically the first one below? You sound like an indoctrinated prole...
* WAR IS PEACE
* FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
* IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH

[Mayberry]

You sound like an indoctrinated prole...
Back at'cha dude. Don't mess with our men and women in uniform. Peace and our safety is their goal, and don't you ever doubt it. 'Nuff said.

[preservanation]

I like his idea of having a cabinet level Secretary of Peace

We already have a Department of peace.
It's called the US Military.
Heh. A unique viewpoint. I believe the Defense Department is a former cabinet level Secretariat renamed from the title Secretary of War/War Department.

Are you familiar with George Orwell and the slogans of the Party in his novel 1984? Specifically the first one below? You sound like an indoctrinated prole...
* WAR IS PEACE
* FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
* IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH

Yes, Newspeak, wasn't it?
I'm familiar with it...
*GAY UNION IS MARRIAGE

[PatrickHenry]

Yes, Newspeak, wasn't it?
I'm familiar with it...
*GAY UNION IS MARRIAGE
Actually the Party slogans are sometimes confused with Newspeak, but they have the same purpose...propaganda.
I am in agreement with you regarding the definition of marriage. I am a social traditionalist.

And Mayberry, I would like nothing better than to have a Defense Department concerned with defense rather than aggressive war. However, I suppose that is the affair of the politicians, not the uniformed services. Do you really think that War Is Peace?

[Mayberry]

Do you really think that War Is Peace?
At times, it becomes necessary.

[PatrickHenry]

Do you really think that War Is Peace?
At times, it becomes necessary.
Are you a supporter of pre-emptive/preventive war? Otherwise known as a war of aggression?

Just trying to determine my opponents positions..( a newbie)

[Mayberry]

Are you a supporter of pre-emptive/preventive war? Otherwise known as a war of aggression?
When necessary, yes.

[PatrickHenry]

What circumstances would warrant such an attack?

[Mayberry]

What circumstances would warrant such an attack? Ummm... Let me see. Pearl Harbor, and 9/11 come to mind.

[PatrickHenry]

What circumstances would warrant such an attack? Ummm... Let me see. Pearl Harbor, and 9/11 come to mind.
Umm...I hope I'm not arguing over your head here. That is, I hope that was just an oversight on your part.

Because the attack on Pearl Harbor was ITSELF a pre-emptive attack. Otherwise known as a "first strike" or the inception of an aggressive war. The US response was justifiable as a defensive war...You would actually justify the Empire of Japan's attack on the US?

And 9/11, well, hmm...

A crew of fanatics as the story goes, who were mostly Saudi. Should Saudi Arabia be assaulted for their crimes? Or do you think that the US assault on Afghanistan was justified because "OBL" was there and the Taliban wouldn't hand him over to the US? Even though the FBI does not currently blame OBL for 9/11? And even though he likely currently resides in Pakistan, Uncle Sam's "ally?" Should Pakistan be attacked?

[Mayberry]

You would actually justify the Empire of Japan's attack on the US?
Jeez.... I meant we were justified in attacking Japan because of Pearl Harbor. And 9/11, well, hmm...
Granted, harder to pin down, but response was justified.

[PatrickHenry]

You would actually justify the Empire of Japan's attack on the US?
Jeez.... I meant we were justified in attacking Japan because of Pearl Harbor.OK. So, defensive wars puts us both on the same page...

And 9/11, well, hmm...
Granted, harder to pin down, but response was justified.
A response against whom?

The major examples of pre-emptive/preventive war could be listed.
Here's what I am referring to: (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preventive_war)Preventive war is war launched in anticipation of a future loss of security or strategic advantage. Preventive war is sharply distinct from preemptive war, or anticipatory self-defense. Preventive war is only claimed to prevent a hypothetical attack which might occur in the future; for example, a war launched to prevent an adversary acquiring more powerful weapons. In international law, preventive war has no recognized status as distinct from a war of aggression. Many, if not most wars have been characterised as "preventive" in nature, often by both sides of the conflict.

One would be Hitler's attack on Poland. Another would be Operation Barbarossa against the Soviets.
Also: The Japanese air attack against Pearl Harbor, the Israeli attack of 1967 against Egypt, and the 2003 US invasion of Iraq.

Any of these would be tough to justify by the theory of Just War. Maybe the Israeli 1967 attack on Egypt would be most tenable since Nasser had mobilized his armies on Israel's border.

Overall, you would find little international support for this type of conflict, since it lends itself strategically to hegemony.

[Truth_and_Power]

Oh god patrick that was a slam dunk on pearl harbor. I wish i could double rep you.

[PatrickHenry]

Back to Kucinich...It is unfortunate for him, in this TV age, that he is such a funny-looking little man. Tall, handsome guys find it easier to get the media coverage you need to keep a Presidential campaign moving forward.

But a Department of Peace...now THAT"s an innovative idea.

And impeaching Dick Cheney first so that Bush won't have Darth Vader waiting in the wings if he has to face charges of dereliction...that's a genius move, too!

He also emphasizes that We, the People have the authority to recall ALL elected and appointed officials. I wonder how a recall election would affect the "government" of GW Bush?

[preservanation]

One of the reason that this conflict is different than WW11, is today we fight an asymmetric war. The terrorists wear no insignia, and are not directly affiliated to any country's official military. They follow no rules of war, treaties or conventions, thus are not deserving any in return.
It is clearly a Religious war...brought on by Islam, not America and Christians.

The left wants to treat 911 as a criminal offence, not an act of war, thus, in their minds Pearl Harbor was a "first strike" or a "preemptive attack", and were righteous in our military response, while looking at 911 as something we caused somehow or actually perpetrated ourselves. to the Sorocialists, 911 and the threat of Islamic terrorism warrants no other response other than what we can do to change our evil ways.

[DANG]

This conflict is like WW2 in this way:

We attacked Iraq;

... like Germany attacked Poland

[Truth_and_Power]

One of the reason that this conflict is different than WW11, is today we fight an asymmetric war. The terrorists wear no insignia, and are not directly affiliated to any country's official military. They follow no rules of war, treaties or conventions, thus are not deserving any in return.
It is clearly a Religious war...brought on by Islam, not America and Christians.

The left wants to treat 911 as a criminal offence, not an act of war, thus, in their minds Pearl Harbor was a "first strike" or a "preemptive attack", and were righteous in our military response, while looking at 911 as something we caused somehow or actually perpetrated ourselves. to the Sorocialists, 911 and the threat of Islamic terrorism warrants no other response other than what we can do to change our evil ways.


No other response, really? Find me a liberal that didnt agree with the afghanistan invasion. I mean like.. more than some super extreme winger. Your second paragraph comes to the usual chest-beating conclusion that all you SUPER PATRIOTS love to use to demean those that disagree with you. It really is wearing itself out.

[Mayberry]

We attacked Iraq;

... like Germany attacked Poland
Not even close. Germany attacked Poland with the intention of conquering it. We attacked Iraq with the intention of freeing them.

[PatrickHenry]

Not even close. Germany attacked Poland with the intention of conquering it. We attacked Iraq with the intention of freeing them.
Snicker, yeah!
Operation
Iraqi
Liberation

[preservanation]

To compare Bush to Hitler and the USA to Nazi Germany is not only silly and insulting on it's face, but shows an astounding lack of understanding about history.
shocking

[PatrickHenry]

To compare Bush to Hitler and the USA to Nazi Germany is not only silly and insulting on it's face, but shows an astounding lack of understanding about history.
shocking
Heh. Did both Bush and Hitler believe that they were chosen by God to lead their nations?
http://www.dissidentvoice.org/Articles3/Jayne_Hitler-Bush.htm
When President Bush decided to invade Iraq, his spokesmen began comparing Saddam Hussein to Adolph Hitler, the most monstrous figure in modern history. Everybody was therefore shocked when a high German bureaucrat turned the tables by comparing Bush himself with Hitler. As to be expected, she (the bureaucrat) was forced to resign because of her extreme disrespect for an American president. However, the resemblance sticks--there are too many similarities to be ignored, some of which may be listed here.

1. Like Hitler, President Bush was not elected by a majority, but was forced to engage in political maneuvering in order to gain office.


2. Like Hitler, Bush began to curtail civil liberties in response to a well-publicized disaster, in Hitler’s case the Reichstag fire, in Bush’s case the 9-11 catastrophe.


3. Like Hitler, Bush went on to pursue a reckless foreign policy without the mandate of the electorate and despite the opposition of most foreign nations.


4. Like Hitler, Bush has increased his popularity with conservative voters by mounting an aggressive public relations campaign against foreign enemies. Just as Hitler cited international communism to justify Germany’s military buildup, Bush has used Al Qaeda and the so-called Axis of Evil to justify our current military buildup. Paradoxically none of the nations in this axis--Iraq, Iran and North Korea--have had anything to do with each other.


5. Like Hitler, Bush has promoted militarism in the midst of economic recession (or depression as it was called during the thirties). First he used war preparations to help subsidize defense industries (Halliburton, Bechtel, Carlyle Group, etc.) and presumably the rest of the economy on a trickle-down basis. Now he turns to the very same corporations to rebuild Iraq, again without competitive bidding and at extravagant profit levels.


6. Like Hitler, Bush displays great populist enthusiasm in his patriotic speeches, but primarily serves wealthy investors who subsidize his election campaigns and share with him their comfortable lifestyle. As he himself jokes, he treats these individuals at the pinnacle of our economy as his true political “base.”


7. Like Hitler, Bush envisages our nation’s unique historic destiny almost as a religious cause sanctioned by God. Just as Hitler did for Germany, he takes pride in his “providential” role in spreading his version of Americanism throughout the entire world.


8. Like Hitler, Bush promotes a future world order that guarantees his own nation’s hegemonic supremacy rather than cooperative harmony under the authority of the United Nations (or League of Nations).


9. Like Hitler, Bush quickly makes and breaks diplomatic ties, and he offers generous promises that he soon abandons, as in the cases of Mexico, Russia, Afghanistan, and even New York City. The same goes for U.S. domestic programs. Once Bush was elected, many leaders of these programs learned to dread his making any kind of an appearance to praise their success, since this was almost inevitably followed by severe cuts in their budgets.


10. Like Hitler, Bush scraps international treaties, most notably the Anti-Ballistic Missile Treaty, the Biological Weapons Convention, the Comprehensive Test Ban Treaty, the Convention on the Prohibition of Land Mines, the Chemical Weapons Convention, the Kyoto Global Warming Accord, and the International Criminal Court.


11. Like Hitler, Bush repeats lies often enough that they come to be accepted as the truth. Bush and his spokesmen argued, for example, that they had taken every measure possible to avoid war, than an invasion of Iraq would diminish (not intensify) the terrorist threat against the U.S., that Iraq was linked with Al Qaeda, and that nothing whatsoever had been achieved by U.N. inspectors to warrant the postponement of U.S. invasion plans. All of this was false. They also insisted that Iraq hid numerous weapons it did not possess since the mid-190s, and they refused to acknowledge the absence of a nuclear weapons program in Iraq since the early nineties. As perhaps to be expected, they indignantly accused others of deception and evasiveness.


12. Like Hitler, Bush incessantly shifted his arguments to justify invading Iraq--from Iraq’s WMD threat to the elimination of Saddam Hussein, to his supposed Al Qaeda connection, to the creation of Iraqi democracy in the Middle East as a model for neighboring states, and back again to the WMD threat. As soon as one excuse for the war was challenged, Bush advanced to another, but only to shift back again at another time.


13. Like Hitler, Bush and his cohorts emphasize the ruthlessness of their enemies in order to justify their own. Just as Hitler cited the threat of communist violence to justify even greater violence on the part of Germany, the bush team justified the invasion of Iraq by emphasizing Hussein’s crimes against humanity over the past twenty-five years. However, these crimes were for the most part committed when Iraq was a client-ally of the U.S. Our government supplied Hussein with illegal weapons (poison gas included), and there were sixty U.S. advisors in Iraq when these weapons were put to use (see NY Times, Aug. 18, 1992). U.S. aid to Iraq was actually doubled afterwards despite disclaimers from Washington that our nation opposed their use. President Reagan’s special envoy Donald Rumsfeld personally informed Hussein of this one hundred percent increment during one of his two trips to Iraq at the time. He also told Hussein not to take U.S. disclaimers seriously.


14. Like Hitler, Bush takes pride in his status as a “War President,” and his global ambition makes him perhaps the most dangerous president in our nation’s history, a “rogue” chief executive capable of waging any number of illegal preemptive wars. He fully acknowledges his willingness to engage in wars of “choice” as well as wars of necessity. Sooner or later this choice will oblige universal conscription as well as a full-scale war economy.


15. Like Hitler, Bush continues to pursue war without cutting back on the peacetime economy. Additional to unprecedented low interest rates bestowed by the Federal Reserve, he has actually cut federal taxes twice by substantial amounts, especially for the top one percent of U.S. taxpayers, while conducting an expensive invasion and an even more expensive occupation of a hostile nation. As a result, President Clinton’s $350 billion budget surplus has been reduced to a $450 billion deficit, comprising an unprecedented $800 billion decline in less than four years. At the same time the U.S. dollar has steadily dropped against currencies of both Europe and Japan.


16. Like Hitler, Bush possesses a war machine much bigger and more effective than the military capabilities of other nations. With the extra financing obliged by the defeat and occupation of Iraq, Bush now relies on a “defense” budget well in excess of the combined military expenditures of the rest of the world. Moreover, the $416 billion defense package passed last week by Congress will probably need to be supplemented before the end of the year.


17. Like Hitler, bush depends on an axis of collaborative allies, which he describes as a “coalition of the willing,” in order to give the impression of a broad popular alliance. These allies include the U.K. as compared to Mussolini’s Italy, and Spain and Bulgaria, as compared to, well, Spain and Bulgaria, both of which were aligned with Germany during the thirties and World War II. As a result of their cooperation, Prime Minister Blair’s diplomatic reputation has been ruined in England, and a surprising election defeat has produced an unfriendly government in Spain. The Philippines have withdrawn their troops from Iraq to save the life of a hostage, and other defections can be expected in the near future.


18. Like Hitler, Bush is willing to go to war over the objections of the U.N. (League of Nations). His Iraq invasion was illegal and therefore a war crime as explained by Articles 41 and 42 of the U.N. Charter, which require two votes, not one, by the Security Council before any state takes such an action. First a vote is needed to explore all possibilities short of warfare (in Iraq’s case through the use of U.N. inspectors), and once this has been shown to be fruitless, a second vote is needed to permit military action. U.S. and U.K. delegates at the Security Council prevented this second vote once it was plain they lacked a majority. This was because other nations on the Security Council were satisfied with the findings of U.N. inspectors that no weapons of mass destruction had yet been found. Minus this second vote, the invasion was illegal. Bush also showed in the process that he has no qualms about bribing, bullying, and insulting U.N. members, even tapping their telephone lines. This was done with undecided members of the Security Council as well as the U.N. Secretary General when the U.S.-U.K. resolution was debated preceding the invasion.


19. Like Hitler, Bush launches unilateral invasions on a supposedly preemptive basis. Just as Hitler convinced the German public to think of Poland as a threat to Germany in 1939 (for example in his Sept. 19 speech), Bush wants Americans to think of Iraq as having been a “potential” threat to our national security--indeed as one of the instigators of the 9-11 attack despite a complete lack of evidence to support this claim.


20. Like Hitler, Bush depends on a military strategy that features a “shock and awe” blitzkrieg beginning with devastating air strikes, then an invasion led by heavy armored columns.


21. Like Hitler, Bush is willing to inflict high levels of bloodshed against enemy nations. Between 20,000 and (more probably) 37,000 are now estimated to have been killed, as much as a ro-1 kill ratio compared to the more than 900 Americans killed. In other words, for every U.S. fatality, probably as many as forty Iraqi have died.


22. Like Hitler, Bush is perfectly willing to sacrifice life as part of his official duty. This would be indicated by the unprecedented number of prisoners executed during his service as governor of Texas. Under no other governor in the history of the United States were so many killed.


23. Like Hitler, Bush began warfare on a single front (Al Qaeda quartered in Afghanistan), but then expanded it to a second front with Iraq, only to be confronted with North Korea and Iran as potential third and fourth fronts. Much the same thing happened to Hitler when he advanced German military operations from Spain to Poland and France, then was distracted by Yugoslavia before invading the USSR in 1941. Today, bush seems prevented by the excessive costs of the Iraqi debacle from going to war elsewhere if reelected, but not through any lack of desire.


24. Like Hitler, Bush has no qualms about imposing “regime change” by installing Quisling-style client governments backed by a U.S. military occupation with both political and economic control entirely in the hands of Americans. It is no surprise that Iyad Alawi, Iraq’s current temporary prime minister, was once affiliated with the CIA and has been reliably reported by the Australian press to have executed six hooded prisoners with a handgun to their heads just a day or two before his appointment a couple weeks ago.


25. Like Hitler, Bush curtails civil liberties in captive nations and depends on detention centers (i.e., concentration camps) such as a Guantanamo, Abu Ghraib, and any number of secret interrogation centers across the world. Prisoners at the camps go unidentified and have no legal rights as ordinarily guaranteed by the Geneva Conventions. They have also been detained indefinitely (for 2 ½ years already at Guantanamo Bay), though there is mounting evidence that many are innocent of what they have been charged--some, for example, having been randomly seized by Northern Alliance troops in Afghanistan for an automatic bounty from U.S. commanders. Moreover, many Iraqi prisoners have been tortured, in many instances just short of death. Recent U.S. documents disclose that as many twenty have died while being tortured, and twenty others have died under unusual circumstances yet to be determined.


26. Like Hitler, Bush uses the threat of enemies abroad to stir the fearful allegiance of the U.S. public. For example, he features public announcements of possible terrorist attacks in order to override embarrassing news coverage or to crowd from headlines positive coverage of Democratic Party activities. He also uses the threat of terrorism to justify extraordinary domestic powers granted by the Patriot Act. Even the books we check out of public libraries can be kept on record by federal agents.


27. Like Hitler, Bush depends on a propaganda machine to guarantee sympathetic news management. In Hitler’s case news coverage was totally dominated by Goebbels; in Bush’s case reporters have been almost totally “imbedded” by both military spokesmen and wealthy media owners sympathetic with Bush. The most obvious case is the Fox news channel, owned and controlled by Rupert Murdoch. Not surprisingly, recent polls indicate that the majority of Fox viewers still think Hussein played a role in the 9-11 attack.


28. Like Hitler, Bush increasingly reduces the circle of aides he feels he can trust as his policies keep boomeranging at his own expense. Just as Hitler ended up isolated in his headquarters, with few individuals granted access, Bush is now said to be limiting access primarily to Attorney General Ashcroft (who also talks with God on a regular basis) as well as Karl Rove, the Vice President, Karen Hughes, and a few others. Both Secretary of State Powell and Secretary of Defense Rumsfeld are now said to be out of the loop.


29. Like Hitler, Bush has become obsessed with his vision of conflict between good (U.S. patriotism) and evil (anti-Americanism. Many in contact with the White House are said to be worried that he is beginning to lose touch with reality--perhaps resulting from the use of medication that seriously distorts his judgment. Possibly symptomatic of this concern is the increasing number of disaffected government officials who leak embarrassing documents.


30. Like Hitler, bush takes pleasure in the mythology of frontier justice. As a youth Hitler read and memorized the western novels of Karl May, and Bush retains into his maturity his fascination with simplistic cowboy values. He also exaggerates a cowboy twang despite his C-average elitist education at Andover, Yale, and Harvard.


31. Like Hitler, Bush misconstrues Darwinism, in Hitler’s case by treating the Aryan race as being superior on an evolutionary basis, in Bush’s case by rejecting science for fundamentalist creationism.

Of course countless differences may be listed between Hitler and President Bush, most of which are to the credit of Bush. Nevertheless, the resemblances listed here are striking, especially since Bush’s first term in office must be compared with Hitler’s performance as German Chancellor through the year 1937, preceding the chain of events immediately preceding World War II. In any case, George W. Bush seems the worst and most dangerous U.S. president in recent memory (for me since Roosevelt)--if not in the entire history of the United States.

There ya' go, preservanation. You asked for it... :D

[DANG]

We attacked Iraq;

... like Germany attacked Poland
Not even close. Germany attacked Poland with the intention of conquering it. We attacked Iraq with the intention of freeing them.
To compare Bush to Hitler and the USA to Nazi Germany is not only silly and insulting on it's face, but shows an astounding lack of understanding about history.
shocking

First of all, Dont make the mistake of connecting this great country, the USA, at the hip with the neo-convicts in power.

They are impeachable for this war of choice.

Our War Monger in Chief has already stated that this is a generational war. They are currently building a Capitol Building for this 51st state and dumping Billions of dollars and bodies into the construction (They are calling it an Embassy temporarily) But this is a permanant state we are conquering. After the civil war kills off as many as possible Haliburton will send in the mercenaries for a door to door slaughter (of biblical proportions)'

We are freeing them, eh? What an utter failure your president is. They never had a single suicide bomber in Iraq until the great white satan said "Bring em on".
Zero terrorism. Zero Al Qaida. And the sanctions were about to be lifted so life could get back to normal... finally... Then your strutting horse masturbator ordered the UN Inspectors out of Bagdad so he could murder 700,000 innocent civilians (so far).... or should I say liberate.

Get a dictionary. We didnt liberate them, we gave them genocide from all directions.

They were better of before.

Follow the money, Dumbyas cronies made a killing.

edit to add:
Good find Patrick!

[preservanation]

During World War II, Nazi Germany and its collaborators murdered approximately six million Jews. The Holocaust is the name used to refer to this systematic, bureaucratic, and state-sponsored campaign of persecution and murder. Beginning with racially discriminatory laws in Germany, the Nazi campaign expanded to the mass murder of all European Jews
http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/article.php?lang=en&ModuleId=10005143

Letter from Adolf Hitler to Adolf Gemlich, September 16, 1919:

Anti-Semitism as a political movement should not and cannot be determined by factors of sentiment, but only by the recognition of the facts. These are the facts:
To begin with, Jewry is unqualifiedly a racial association and not a religious association. . . . Its influence will bring about the racial tuberculosis of the people.

Hence it follows: Anti-Semitism on purely emotional grounds will find its ultimate expression in the form of pogroms. Rational anti-semitism, however, must lead to a systematic legal opposition and elimination of the special privileges which Jews hold, in contrast to the other aliens living among us (aliens' legislation). Its final objective must unswervingly be the removal of the Jews altogether. Only a government of national vitality is capable of doing both, and never a government of national impotence.
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Holocaust/hitler_on_Jews.html

How can you even begin to think about making up such false and hurtful comparisons such as these?

[DANG]

During World War II, Nazi Germany and its collaborators murdered approximately six million Jews.
Hey!! Theres a difference.

"We dont do body counts" ~~Tommy Franks

..... DANG, now we'll never know whos the better MURDERER.

[preservanation]

During World War II, Nazi Germany and its collaborators murdered approximately six million Jews.
Hey!! Theres a difference.

"We dont do body counts" ~~Tommy Franks

..... DANG, now we'll never know whos the better MURDERER.

How do you come by such a writhing hate for Bush? It really is not normal or even worth it.

Bush will be gone and it'll all be butterflies and fuzzy bunnies again soon anyway. So relax and try to focus on the real threat, Islamofaciasts.

[DANG]

How do you come by such a writhing hate for Bush? It really is not normal or even worth it.I can read him. He is a habitual, compulsive liar.
I could tell since before he was (s)elected, when he was lying. He is also a member of the worst kind of cult Dominionism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominionism). He is working to fulfill end of days prophesy.
How many little babies has he murdered? Kids playing in the park or at a wedding suddenly find theirs arms or legs blown off. Why do you like him? Why do you hold his coat so he can cut the heads off of pregnant women. I could post pictures. This war hasnt been fairly represented in the new. America has murdered innocent people today.

Bush will be gone and it'll all be butterflies and fuzzy bunnies again soon anyway. Thats where you underestimate the greed, scope and evil of these people. When they attack Iran... (and it could happen any day before he leaves office) this will ignite a world war which is actually GOOD for them. Then they can declare National Emergency and assume full dictatorial powers. LISTEN! They wont leave office. Elections will be called off as a threat to the Fatherland.
Dick Cheney will shoot W in the face with a shotgun within 3 days. Chancellor Cheney will have no further need for the adoring flock of reich-wing christo-fascist of the neo-con zombie brigade, unless they put on the brown shirts and kill fellow citizens who oppose the Reich.

So relax and try to focus on the real threat, Islamofaciasts.Ah yes, the other religion. If the christians are hating other religions to the point of murder then they wont be crowding the real enemies who have hijacked our white house. Islam is no more my enemy than the Buddists. You know how to end terrorism ? TODAY? Stop terrorizing them! We are the aggressors. They are acting in self defense and revenge.

http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/8979/smallstopterrordd6.jpg

~Peace

[Truth_and_Power]

DANG,

I really don't believe he'll try it, despite the warning signs. If he does, I will most certainly be in the street and not going to work. The only real question is how many days I'd wait before abandoning non-violence and becoming an insurgent.

LIVE FREE OR DIE!!

[DANG]

DANG,

I really don't believe he'll try it, despite the warning signs. Why not? I mean, they have shown;
A) They will steal elections
B) They will start wars for profit;
So, by default, they will start a war to stay in power to gain more profit. Extension of power is a slam dunk excuse for Darth Cheney. Why step down voluntarily? Is that really an option for these guys? They have tipped their hand. Dont act all surprised and everything when they actually do it.

Its first grade math.

If he does, I will most certainly be in the street and not going to work. The only real question is how many days I'd wait before abandoning non-violence and becoming an insurgent.

LIVE FREE OR DIE!! I will decide what to do when it happens. My God and "Fight or flight" will make it clear. I wont do any good for my country if I paint a target on my forhead.

[DANG]

...and I may no longer claim it as my country if the majority of its denizens are in favor of Imperiaist hegemon.
Enough people voted for this retard and his handlers to make me ashamed. Even if it wasnt as many voted for them, as they say it was.
I am surprised nobody has stormed the gates. Really. There has been a new Crime du jour every damned day, that has deserved pitchforks and torches.

I want my country back. I dont want to be an expat, but I DAMNED sure dont want to be party to (or even remotely associated with) global mayhem, that is surely around the next corner.
It may be time to migrate to the tropics. Costa Rica? Peru? Life is too short to be un-proud of my country.

[Mayberry]

After the civil war kills off as many as possible Haliburton will send in the mercenaries for a door to door slaughter (of biblical proportions)'
You've GOT to be kidding. I think you may need to be on medication.

[DANG]

After the civil war kills off as many as possible Haliburton will send in the mercenaries for a door to door slaughter (of biblical proportions)'
You've GOT to be kidding. I think you may need to be on medication.You would rather believe the predictions of the presitards staff when they make THEIR BROAD predictions??
Like this: Rumsfeld (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/2738089.stm)

"It could last six days, six weeks. I doubt six months," Joint Chiefs Adm Mullen (http://starbulletin.com/2007/05/08/news/story05.html)

"This war is going to go on for a long time. It’s a generational war.” So, who really needs the medication? I prescribe arsenic for the whole cabinet.... Save the Earth!

Disclaimer:
I do not recommend anyone poison these cretins. I am saying if they want to voluntarily put themselves out of the worlds misery... nobody should stop them. Word.

[Mayberry]

You would rather believe the predictions of the presitards staff when they make THEIR BROAD predictions??
That has absolutely nothing to do with your statement. You said Halliburton mercenaries would kill of the Iraqis, which is utter nonsense. Broad predictions notwithstanding, are at least based in reality.

[DANG]

Are you saying that Haliburton doesnt hire mercenaries?
Or that they wouldnt kill Iraqis?

[Mayberry]

I'm saying that the American government would not send in contractors, or anyone else for that matter, to kill off the "remnants" of the Iraqi people. That's just insane.

[DANG]

Actually it would be illegal for our troops to do it. Geneva conventions and all.

Mercenaries are not sworn to abide by any US treaties, (nor the UCMJ) so it would have to be them.

[preservanation]

The only way to stop terrorism is to stop the terrorists.
The day will come when the left will fear the terrorists more than they hate Bush, and only then can we expect change.

[BoogyMan]

Does anyone else see that Kucinich looks like a badly done bobble-head doll?

[DANG]

The only way to stop terrorism is to stop the terrorists.You still dont see that we ARE the terrorists?

The day will come when the left will fear the terrorists more than they hate Bush, and only then can we expect change.Its not a matter of left or right. Its a matter of right and wrong. I hate bush because by attacking a middle east nation for its oil, he has CREATED terrorists. They know they must stop the great satan where he is, before he comes to their town. The more innocent people we murder the more "terrorists" spring up. They are not really terrorists though (oooga-boooga)... they are just trying to sabve theuir own lives. They dont even have the religious hate that you do.
They just want to be left alone.

If a man is defending his home and family from a band of raping, murdering thieves... is that man a terrorist if he kills some tresspassers? I dont think so.

Your con isnt working any more.

Its their land and their oil.... leave them alone.

[preservanation]

DANG:You still dont see that we ARE the terrorists?
That is why you and I will never agree on this.
I know who the terrorists are, as do most people.
You do not.

[DANG]

Oh, thats right its "Shock and Awe" when we "TERRORIZE", and terrorism when THEY do it....gotcha

[fpwarriors65]

One of the reason that this conflict is different than WW11, is today we fight an asymmetric war. The terrorists wear no insignia, and are not directly affiliated to any country's official military. They follow no rules of war, treaties or conventions, thus are not deserving any in return.
It is clearly a Religious war...brought on by Islam, not America and Christians.

The left wants to treat 911 as a criminal offence, not an act of war, thus, in their minds Pearl Harbor was a "first strike" or a "preemptive attack", and were righteous in our military response, while looking at 911 as something we caused somehow or actually perpetrated ourselves. to the Sorocialists, 911 and the threat of Islamic terrorism warrants no other response other than what we can do to change our evil ways.


No other response, really? Find me a liberal that didnt agree with the afghanistan invasion. I mean like.. more than some super extreme winger. Your second paragraph comes to the usual chest-beating conclusion that all you SUPER PATRIOTS love to use to demean those that disagree with you. It really is wearing itself out.


THe thing is in the end we ended up attacking the wrong guys, we invaded Aghanistan yes but then we went out of our way and attacked Iraq wwere not a single terroirst was from. Saddam and Osama actually hated eachother, and the only form of terrorism in that country was its dictator. Now however we have jsut gone out and created more terrorists in Iraq, the terror levels there have skye rocketed in the last 4 years of an unjust war.

[Mayberry]

I hate bush because by attacking a middle east nation for its oil, he has CREATED terrorists. So there were no terrorists until we attacked Iraq? And where's the oil? I'd sure like to see it, and bring these damn gas prices down! If we attacked Iraq for oil, then we've really done a lousy job of it.

[PatrickHenry]

where's the oil? I'd sure like to see it, and bring these damn gas prices down! If we attacked Iraq for oil, then we've really done a lousy job of it.
Ahahaha! It was for the oil COMPANIES! And their profits are way up!

You think any of the Washington elite want to lower prices at the pump? So naive...(shakes head)

[DANG]

I hate bush because by attacking a middle east nation for its oil, he has CREATED terrorists. So there were no terrorists until we attacked Iraq? Not in Iraq, but now its DAILY in Iraq.And where's the oil? I'd sure like to see it, and bring these damn gas prices down! If we attacked Iraq for oil, then we've really done a lousy job of it.Actually things couldnt be better for the oil industry. Iraqi Oil that was earmarked for france and Russia and everyone except The West; has now been controlled by
A) Keeping it in the sand, whereas if it were on the market the glut would force prices down. You think the reasy oil barons WANT to charge less per gallon??
http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/366/roflhc3.gif http://img167.imageshack.us/img167/1355/scrollhaha4eu.gifhttp://img167.imageshack.us/img167/1355/scrollhaha4eu.gifhttp://img167.imageshack.us/img167/1355/scrollhaha4eu.gifhttp://img167.imageshack.us/img167/1355/scrollhaha4eu.gif
B) Your error in judgement seems to be based in assuming bush wants whats best for YOU, the consumer and cheering squad. Nah, he only has eyes for them what really brung him to the dance.

c) You may have noticed there are no new refineries being built.... yeah, dont expect any. This way if a storm knocks down their flag pole they can raise gas prices by a buck a gallon. Or if Paris Hilton doesnt like the jailhouse tuna? Thats good for 50¢ per gallon increase.

Check it:
Bush Didn't Bungle Iraq, You Fools
The Mission Was Indeed Accomplished

By Greg Palast
The Guardian - UK (found here (http://www.rense.com/general70/pp.htm))
3-22-6

Get off it. All the carping, belly-aching and complaining about George Bush's incompetence in Iraq, from both the Left and now the Right, is just dead wrong.

On the third anniversary of the tanks rolling over Iraq's border, most of the 59 million Homer Simpsons who voted for Bush are beginning to doubt if his mission was accomplished.

But don't kid yourself -- Bush and his co-conspirator, Dick Cheney, accomplished exactly what they set out to do. In case you've forgotten what their real mission was, let me remind you of White House spokesman Ari Fleisher's original announcement, three years ago, launching of what he called,

"Operation
Iraqi
Liberation."

O.I.L. How droll of them, how cute. Then, Karl Rove made the giggling boys in the White House change it to "OIF" -- Operation Iraqi Freedom. But the 101st Airborne wasn't sent to Basra to get its hands on Iraq's OIF.

"It's about oil," Robert Ebel told me. Who is Ebel? Formerly the CIA's top oil analyst, he was sent by the Pentagon, about a month before the invasion, to a secret confab in London with Saddam's former oil minister to finalize the plans for "liberating" Iraq's oil industry. In London, Bush's emissary Ebel also instructed Ibrahim Bahr al-Ulum, the man the Pentagon would choose as post-OIF oil minister for Iraq, on the correct method of disposing Iraq's crude.

And what did the USA want Iraq to do with Iraq's oil? The answer will surprise many of you: and it is uglier, more twisted, devilish and devious than anything imagined by the most conspiracy-addicted blogger. The answer can be found in a 323-page plan for Iraq's oil secretly drafted by the State Department. Our team got a hold of a copy; how, doesn't matter. The key thing is what's inside this thick Bush diktat: a directive to Iraqis to maintain a state oil company that will "enhance its relationship with OPEC."

Enhance its relationship with OPEC??? How strange: the government of the United States ordering Iraq to support the very OPEC oil cartel which is strangling our nation with outrageously high prices for crude.

Specifically, the system ordered up by the Bush cabal would keep a lid on Iraq's oil production -- limiting Iraq's oil pumping to the tight quota set by Saudi Arabia and the OPEC cartel.

There you have it. Yes, Bush went in for the oil -- not to get MORE of Iraq's oil, but to prevent Iraq producing TOO MUCH of it.
You must keep in mind who paid for George's ranch and Dick's bunker: Big Oil. And Big Oil -- and their buck-buddies, the Saudis -- don't make money from pumping more oil, but from pumping LESS of it. The lower the supply, the higher the price.

It's Economics 101. The oil industry is run by a cartel, OPEC, and what economists call an "oligopoly" -- a tiny handful of operators who make more money when there's less oil, not more of it. So, every time the "insurgents" blow up a pipeline in Basra, every time Mad Mahmoud in Tehran threatens to cut supply, the price of oil leaps. And Dick and George just LOVE it.

Dick and George didn't want more oil from Iraq, they wanted less.

more.... (http://www.rense.com/general70/pp.htm)

This would have been posted 20 minutes ago if Windows wasnt hogging my dial-up bandwidth for a goddam update. Going on freaking day two now. dammmit.

screw it.

[Mayberry]

Ahahaha! It was for the oil COMPANIES! Oh snap! I get it now, Mr. Conspiracy Theory! Bush sent our troops over to Iraq to stop the flow of oil and artificially inflate the price! Damn, why didn't it click before?! Give me a break!!!! You will stop at nothing, will you? What kind of idiots do you take the majority of this country for? Do you honestly think for a minute that if that ridiculous idea were even thought to be true, that this war would ever have been started, much less allowed to continue for over four years? The average American is an idiot, but they're not that stupid. Sheesh. You may have noticed there are no new refineries being built. Yes I have, mostly due to all the left wing tree-huggers and their miles and miles of red tape, and the NIMBY crowd. whereas if it were on the market the glut would force prices down Perhaps a little, but OPEC controls most of the production, and therefore the prices. You think the reasy oil barons WANT to charge less per gallon??
They are charging what the market will bear. It sucks, but doesn't seem to be slowing too many folks down much. Prices won't drop until consumption does, or a refinery or two can be built. If you want to blame anyone for high gas prices, blame the government for allowing the oil companies to merge like there's no tomorrow, for caving to tree huggers, and for taxing gas to death. The government is still the biggest profit maker per gallon of gas. Now, before you even say it, I am all for environmental responsibility, but the regs in place are ridiculously overbearing and cumbersome.

[preservanation]

Mayberry, dude you nailed it!

[DANG]

Dont think I agree with you because of my delayed response.
My computer is horribly bogged down by the most bloated Microsoft update in history. Its day 5 and my dial up connection has only gotten 50% of it. I leave my computer on all day and night, too.
Anyway, its no fun "playing" on the puter anymore. So, I dont. I will respond to this post and then be gone again, for a while.

Ahahaha! It was for the oil COMPANIES! Oh snap! I get it now, Mr. Conspiracy Theory! Bush sent our troops over to Iraq to stop the flow of oil and artificially inflate the price! Damn, why didn't it click before?! Give me a break!!!! You will stop at nothing, will you? What kind of idiots do you take the majority of this country for? Do you honestly think for a minute that if that ridiculous idea were even thought to be true, that this war would ever have been started, much less allowed to continue for over four years? The average American is an idiot, but they're not that stupid. Sheesh. Did you read the Gaurdian UK article (http://www.rense.com/general70/pp.htm) in my last post?

Notice:
You know what, this isnt going to work. I had to wait 3 minutes for the hour glass cursor after entering that last link,,,, just to finish the goddamn sentence. C-YA

Tag team.... Patrick, you're up.

[Mayberry]

I had to wait 3 minutes for the hour glass cursor after entering that last link,,,, just to finish the goddamn sentence. Broadband, my friend. Worth every penny. And if you dicker with the cable co., you can get a break. I got my "introductory" rate extended indefinitely. :D Going on 4 years now. Did you read the Gaurdian UK article in my last post?
Yeah, so what? You didn't read my last post?

[DANG]

Broadband, my friend. Worth every penny. And if you dicker with the cable co., you can get a break. I got my "introductory" rate extended indefinitely. :D Going on 4 years now.Can they match the $10.95 I'm paying now? Didnt think so. Hard times, I will just have to wait for better days.

Did you read the Gaurdian UK article in my last post?
Yeah, so what? You didn't read my last post?Has bush ever negotiated ANYTHING? Admitted he was wrong about anything? Except for the "Bring em on" fuck up? He has never listened to the counsel of anyone except Cheney.
You really think he would change course if people protested? Maybe you should look around, people HAVE been protesting and signing impeachment petitions for years.

WORST.
PRESIDENT.
EVER.

The mass murderer actually thinks God told him to do it. A patent excuse for bloody sociopaths and psychopaths throughout history.
It doesnt matter if people tell him not to do something.... he can hear god. What a retard!


Even since his job approval has been in mid 20's, he still wont compromise. Its his way or the highway. I wish would would just retire, or go hunting with Cheney.

[Rayosun]

"Back to Kucinich...It is unfortunate for him, in this TV age, that he is such a funny-looking little man. Tall, handsome guys find it easier to get the media coverage you need to keep a Presidential campaign moving forward." When it comes time to actually cast our votes, it would be unwise IMHO to throw your vote away on someone who has no chance of winning. But until that day is actually at hand, I think those of us who are "big enough" to recognize the greatness of this little man should do our best to make his ideas better known and appreciated.
Such a man might actually have a chance if we ever adopted the excellent idea of an "instant run-off election", another great idea we should talk up as often as possible.

[preservanation]

Yeah,
If only for the "instant run off election" Kucinich would be the Dem nominee for sure.
Hoooooooooo Boy!
Nice to have you here, Pastor Rayofsun.
Welcome, my friend.
*preservanation*

[underdawg]

I personally am a huge dennis fan. i grew up and live in Cleveland, so maybe that impacts my thoughts anout him. I think he knows what is right for this country. Also when looking at a president i think the if iraq really is the hot ticket then someone who voted against the war to begin with should be placed in office. Hillary is terrible, personally i would vote for jsut about any Republican before i voted for Hilary. For me the Democratic Presidental race should be between the three best, and in my mind that is Barrack Obama, John Edwards, and Dennis Kuicinich.


I have to agree. I like those 3 choices myself. It is a shame that people label Kucinich as unelectable because of the way he looks and that he speaks the truth. I do not like Hillary. I think she is too corrupted by politics, power and money. Of all the candidates I think I trust Kucinich the most.

[preservanation]

If you nuts, sorry about the shameless flattery, think that Kucinich has a hair of a chance of winning the Dem nomination... yous gots to get a new barber.

One surety in the 08 election is that Hillary will be the Dem nominee, get used to it.
All your crying and stomping around is not going to stop that.
Y'all been had.
Welcome to the overcrowded graveyard of broken promises the Dems have heaped upon this nation over the years.

[preservanation]

Don't get me wrong, I like Dennis, he is candid and honest, he's wrong, but honest.
Concerning is UFO thing in the last debate. There are probably millions of Americans who have seen something in the night sky which they couldn't explain.

Hell, at one time in human history the MOON would have been considered an unidentified "flying" object.
No need to cue the Twilight zone music on this issue.
Maybe on others, but not on this.

[lavisod]

why is so many ppl here that arnt even advocates of peace? Pearl harbor was brought up earlier, did you know the US government wanted to be attacked to mobilize the people into war. Also did you know that the Japenese gov was ready to give up before we dropped not one atomic bomb on civilian population but 2. Why 2? Second the US gov knew about 911 and allowed the attack to continue, they even planted bombs in the towers making them the real terrorists. Alongside all this is the coverup of aliens and alien technology which leads me to conclude that the US military is not serving to protect anymore and the people that sign up for such a purpose are purposfully mislead. The world is becoming a police state and dissidents are going to be exterminated. You may not believe me now but in a few years around 2012 the shit will hit the fan. The globlal elite are destroying american soverigty in an effort to create chaos so it will lead to a new world order. Leaders such as ron paul and dennis kucinich are the last hope we got. ITs too bad grassroots democracy hasn't worked ever. I dont even believe in the representative political system. I favor direct internet democracy. THe only way to tap the creative human potential and inquire/create with the best and brightest ideas and initiatives. Otherwise the economy will crash, martial law will set in, and you can kiss your american dream goodbye.

[preservanation]

why is so many ppl here that arnt even advocates of peace? Pearl harbor was brought up earlier, did you know the US government wanted to be attacked to mobilize the people into war. Also did you know that the Japenese gov was ready to give up before we dropped not one atomic bomb on civilian population but 2. Why 2? Second the US gov knew about 911 and allowed the attack to continue, they even planted bombs in the towers making them the real terrorists. Alongside all this is the coverup of aliens and alien technology which leads me to conclude that the US military is not serving to protect anymore and the people that sign up for such a purpose are purposfully mislead. The world is becoming a police state and dissidents are going to be exterminated. You may not believe me now but in a few years around 2012 the shit will hit the fan. The globlal elite are destroying american soverigty in an effort to create chaos so it will lead to a new world order. Leaders such as ron paul and dennis kucinich are the last hope we got. ITs too bad grassroots democracy hasn't worked ever. I dont even believe in the representative political system. I favor direct internet democracy. THe only way to tap the creative human potential and inquire/create with the best and brightest ideas and initiatives. Otherwise the economy will crash, martial law will set in, and you can kiss your american dream goodbye.
Good one, lavisol.
Aliens, Bush perpetrated 911, apocolyption predictions for the year 2012, etc, ect...?
Now you can cue the Twilight zone music...


No representative political system?
Direct Internet democracy?
creative human potential, etc, etc...?
Where do you think you live, East Whatzinyourmindistan?
IMO, "creativity" is not a good bedrock to base a successful voting system on.
I know about your text-polls. They sure are accurate. Hoo Boy.
You should move back home to Mr. Roger's Neighborhood and get some therapy from King Friday

If I were an American political candidate I wouldn't want you within a hundred miles of my campaign.
I would hazard a guess that you are not doing Paul or Kucinich any favors with your support

Sorry, but with all due respect, you are a nut.

[preservanation]

Why is Kucinich even on the stage?
He's a liability to the Hillary Juggernaut.
Comic relief?

Why is Biden, Richardson, or any of the others, for that matter?
None of them matter.
They are all just window dressing to give the illusion that Hillary has some sort of competition.
"See, America, Hillary was able to out-smart all these formidable opponents." Hah!
Another stellar accomplishment perpetrated by the smartest woman in the world.