*The great WC right about Edwards*

[wonder cow]

Sorry about that but,

1. I said Edwards was going to be the best candidate on the Dems side.
2. He has done well in both debates so far.
3. He is more consistent with his opinions.
4. Lets hope the Dems don't destroy their own best candidate like they did in 04 with Dean.

Regards,
SirDougOfAlabama

[bobbylien]

He might be the better man but he won't beat Hillary.

[NortheastCynic]

As I've said in other threads, I despise John Edwards. He is a hellacioius hybrid of the stereotypical lawyer and the stereotypical politician. He speaks of "free" healthcare and "free" college education while in the same breath claiming he won't raise taxes. He talks about "two Americas" and how "unfairly" wealth is distributed in our economy. We're a capitalist country, John, the market doesn't distribute wealth equally and nor should it. The quasi-socialist [and yes, I mean quasi, the man is certainly no socialist] policies Edwards champions are typical class warfare techniques, and that is all he has. Edwards is to class-warfare what Al Sharpton is to the race card. They're cut from the same cloth and I'd be happy not to have to listen to or see them anymore.

-NC

[underdawg]

Well I like Edwards and plan to vote for him in the primaries. I don't like Hillary. I think she is just after power and will say and do anything to get it.

[wonder cow]

NEC, I'm grading him on political skill and ability to win in a campaign. The health care issue is on point in terms of the issues that concern people, thus why he is talking about it. Economic disparity means the same to Edwards and his ilk that "supporting small business" means to Republicans: taxes.

Any change in the tax code is "redistribution of wealth". Republicans do this as much as Dems.

[NortheastCynic]

Okay, if we're talking sheer political ability, then yes, Edwards is a contender. I'm with you there.

-NC

[ViolaLee]

There's something about Edwards I don't like. He's too namby pamby or something.

I like a strong leader. Hillary, Dodd, Obama and Biden are my faves.

By the way - very funny opening post wonder cow. Although when I read WC I always think of water closet. No, I'm not that old, but I know old folks who used to call the bathroom the WC. ;)

The great water closet was right about Edwards! LOL!

[Pookie]

My jury's still out on this issue. I am going to wait and see what happens with ALL the candidates...
as long as I don't doze off LOL!!
Hahahahahaha!
Purrs,

[preservanation]

If nominated, maybe Edwards will pick Kerry as his running mate. Naw.....maybe not.

[DANG]

Yep, Edwards

http://img118.imageshack.us/img118/4798/johnedwardsforpresidentwg9.gif

I dont think he has sold his soul to the good ole boys club.

Hillary is too much like bush. Voted for the loan sharking that is rampant now. Bankruptcy Bill. Pro war. Pro NWO. Zionist enabler...etc.

Obama, in his very FIRST vote as a Senator.... voted against a recount in Ohio 2004. There was a multitude of FRAUD. Black districts were shorted machines so many thousands of working class people could not vote. It was Jim Crow all over again. For documentation of all the FRAUD on that day at Columbus Free Press (http://www.freepress.org/index2.php)(This link is for election issues in late 2004 only. See link for 05 for more (http://www.freepress.org/departments/display/19/2004)... see right column)(including a fake terror alert that closed off vote count witnesses from observing).
Obama is a TRAITOR. His vote against the recount was his initiation into the good ole boys club.


I like Kucinich, unfortunately people are so shallow about appearances that he is not really electable. Even with his new hottie wife. Damn is she HOT! He just isnt putting much effort into this campaign. Not really even in the running.

Richardson was wishy washy on something... cant remember right this second.

[preservanation]

Dang:I dont think he has sold his soul to the good ole boys club.
No, he sold his soul to Danny Glover and Hugo Chavez.

Is he proving his concept of two Americas by living it?
IMO, he is out of touch with the same people he claims to support and represent.
Too smarmy by half.

You dems have to ask yourselves; do you vote for your principles or do you nominate someone who can actually win? Edwards fits none of those criteria.

I say put Kucinich up there, at least he meets half of that criteria!

[NortheastCynic]

I'm with preservanation, here. Edwards' consistent and cynical use of class warfare is a real turnoff. The cheapest way, in my view, that a politician can gain support is by exciting the poor with the prospect of taking the rich's money.

-NC

[DANG]

Dang:I dont think he has sold his soul to the good ole boys club.
No, he sold his soul to Danny Glover and Hugo Chavez.I take it you are trying to demonize Glover and Chavez? I dont have a problem with either.
I think both want better lives for those who have been oppressed. Try again.

Is he proving his concept of two Americas by living it?He goes after crooked corporations and has been successful at keeping at least a few of them honest. He hits them where it hurts. We need more like him. He is the champion of the common man.

IMO, he is out of touch with the same people he claims to support and represent.
Too smarmy by half.I dont see it.
You dems have to ask yourselves; do you vote for your principles or do you nominate someone who can actually win? Edwards fits none of those criteria.Check the numbers. He is doing it in spite of all the free press Obama and Hillary get.I say put Kucinich up there, at least he meets half of that criteria!Not.
Gonna.
Happen.
Did you see how immature the neo-convicts got when he ran? Keebler jokes? He is short and he has big ears, thats a fact. That has nothing to do with how he is probably the best we could ever hope to have for a president.....the fact remains: We have an immature populace who thinks Patriotism means Pro War... that translates to "pansy" for all the people who have been whipped up into a bloodlust for racial/religious wars over there (since they are taboo here, anymore)

[DANG]

I'm with preservanation, here. Edwards' consistent and cynical use of class warfare is a real turnoff. The cheapest way, in my view, that a politician can gain support is by exciting the poor with the prospect of taking the rich's money.

-NC
Why should those who have the least carry the bulk of the burden? Those who are in the upper 2% have been given tax cuts that redistribute the wealth unfairly.

The middle class is becoming extinct. We have been hemorraging jobs.
Restraunt workers have been re-labelled "factory workers" because good factory jobs are now gone to Mexico and China.
Its going to be a wasteland here soon if we dont stop dealing with countries who dont pay workers fairly and/or start charging tarriffs to make "American Made" a viable product again.
Individually we should stop doing business with Big Box stores like Walmart.... (which in particular has Sam Walton rolling in his grave right now).

Edwards wants the elite to pay their fair share... thats all.

Roll back the tax cuts and end this criminal war....theres a few Trillion that could be put to better use, like healing and teaching. Yeah, hes a real demon....hmmmph.

[preservanation]

Dang:
.I take it you are trying to demonize Glover and Chavez? I dont have a problem with either.
I think both want better lives for those who have been oppressed. Try again. How is this possible when he is the obvious oppressor. Do you support the actions Chavez has taken to abolish free speech?

He goes after crooked corporations and has been successful at keeping at least a few of them honest. He hits them where it hurts. We need more like him. He is the champion of the common man. He's a slick pretty-boy lawyer and snake oil sales man who claims to "channel" dead babies in the courtroom, in order to bilk the health care system and taxpayers out of millions and millions of dollars. He can find a better way to champion the common man, well at least 99.99999% of them

IMO, he is out of touch with the same people he claims to support and represent.
Too smarmy by half. I dont see it.

smarmy: to gush, slobber.

1 : revealing or marked by a smug, ingratiating, or false earnestness
2 : of low sleazy taste or quality

works for me.


Did you see how immature the neo-convicts got when he ran? Keebler jokes? He is short and he has big ears, thats a fact. That has nothing to do with how he is probably the best we could ever hope to have for a president.....the fact remains: We have an immature populace who thinks Patriotism means Pro War... that translates to "pansy" for all the people who have been whipped up into a bloodlust for racial/religious wars over there (since they are taboo here, anymore)
Yea almost as "immature" the Sorosocialists got when Cheney had a heart attack.

[NortheastCynic]

Why should those who have the least carry the bulk of the burden? Those who are in the upper 2% have been given tax cuts that redistribute the wealth unfairly. Um...they don't. The top 1% of our population in terms of income account for 18% of government revenue [a.k.a. taxes]. The top 5% account for 55.5% of all tax money. I'll keep going if you'd like. The top 10% account for 66.5% of all tax money. The top 25% account for 83.5% and the top 50% for 96% of all tax money. These statistics are from a Cato Institute study released in 2002. The idea that the rich aren't paying their fair share is an absolute myth. Edwards plays on this myth to exicte the poor by dangling the money of the rich in front of them.
The middle class is becoming extinct. We have been hemorraging jobs.That explains the record stock market gains and unemployment under 4.5%, right?

Restraunt workers have been re-labelled "factory workers" because good factory jobs are now gone to Mexico and China.
Its going to be a wasteland here soon if we dont stop dealing with countries who dont pay workers fairly and/or start charging tarriffs to make "American Made" a viable product again.
Individually we should stop doing business with Big Box stores like Walmart.... (which in particular has Sam Walton rolling in his grave right now).A doomsday picture of an incredibly strong American economy based on something other than reality.

Edwards wants the elite to pay their fair share... thats all.They already do, Edwards is simply playing on the poor's desire to steal OPM [other people's money].
Roll back the tax cuts and end this criminal war....theres a few Trillion that could be put to better use, like healing and teaching. Yeah, hes a real demon....hmmmph"Healing and teaching". No thanks, I don't want to pay the government to educate children [especially those who aren't mine] nor am I okay with being forced to pay for other's medical problems. If you want to do that, feel free to donate to or establish your own charity that is not dependent on coercion and force.

-NC

[DANG]

How is this possible when he is the obvious oppressor. Do you support the actions Chavez has taken to abolish free speech?
Do you mean to say, promoting assassinationhttp://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article1854593.ece

As for Globovisión, Mr Lara said that the Government was suing the channel for "the offence of incitement to assassination" because it aired footage of the attempted murder, in 1981, of the late Pope John Paul II in Rome. Mr Lara said the images, which were played with a slogan "Have faith, this doesn’t end here" constituted an incitement to murder Mr Chávez. ...should be protected speech?
How about here at home; should Fake News be protected?
He's a slick pretty-boy lawyer and snake oil sales man who claims to "channel" dead babies in the courtroom, in order to bilk the health care system and taxpayers out of millions and millions of dollars. He can find a better way to champion the common man, well at least 99.99999% of themShould prescription drug companies and insurance companies be allowed to take, take, take and not ever pay out when there is a wrongful death (or more accurately a mass murder)??
IMO, he is out of touch with the same people he claims to support and represent.
Too smarmy by half. I dont see it.

smarmy: to gush, slobber.

1 : revealing or marked by a smug, ingratiating, or false earnestness
2 : of low sleazy taste or quality

works for me. I know the definition of smarmy. I dont get how you can say he is out of touch with those he wins reparitions for.
Yea almost as "immature" the Sorosocialists got when Cheney had a heart attack.True, theres plenty of that on all sides. People love that dirty laundry.

Too bad the dirty laundry on the "right" involves those pesky blood stains.

[preservanation]

DANG:How about here at home; should Fake News be protected?
Who will determine whats fake, You? That would be behaving like an elitist fascist.
I'm sure you don't want that.

[preservanation]

DANG:I know the definition of smarmy. You should know it now. I dont get how you can say he is out of touch with those he wins reparitions for. As I said...99.99999% of the common man is never the recipient of Edward's "good works". Anyway, isn't rendering a million dollars to only one individual serve to perpetuate the two Americas problem?

Too bad the dirty laundry on the "right" involves those pesky blood stains.
The dirty laundry the left should have been more concerned with was in the form of a blue dress.

[DANG]

Why should those who have the least carry the bulk of the burden? Those who are in the upper 2% have been given tax cuts that redistribute the wealth unfairly. Um...they don't. The top 1% of our population in terms of income account for 18% of government revenue [a.k.a. taxes]. While the elite 2% possess 90% of all wealth accumulated via both new income and old money. You do the math. There is a lid their taxes to where a secretary who makes a small fraction of what her boss makes... pays the same amount as him (even though he is a billionaire) in taxes.
The only reason you could be in favor of this is because you are on the recieving end of all that free untaxed money.

Check this interview with Thom Hartmann (http://www.buzzflash.com/articles/interviews/034)to see exactly HOW the "rules of laissez-faire free market capitalist economy" is destroying whats good about America. I agree with every thing Thom Hartmann says, so far.

These statistics are from a Cato Institute study released in 2002.Not impressed.
Just so you know: wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cato_Institute)

Between 1998 and 2004 the Cato Institute received $90,000 of its funding from ExxonMobil...This automatically put Cato on my pro-war and terrorism shitlist. You talk about people who have lost loved ones due to corporate greed, who only want OPM and then you quote a right-wing/libertarian think tank that is sponsored by thieves and murderers.
The middle class is becoming extinct. We have been hemorraging jobs.That explains the record stock market gains and unemployment under 4.5%, right?A)The stock market is little more than a casino; and B) the quality of stateside jobs has degraded exponentially. Its bullshiat for you to try and pass off an increase in minimum wage (read slavery) jobs and a decrease in living wage jobs as good for the economy. But, I suppose you just have to learn how deceptive numbers can be when defining terms are changed.

I dont have time to respond to the rest right now.

Edit:
... to fix run on/grammar in last sentence

[NortheastCynic]

While the elite 2% possess 90% of all wealth accumulated via both new income and old money. You do the math. There is a lid their taxes to where a secretary who makes a small fraction of what her boss makes... pays the same amount as him (even though he is a billionaire) in taxes.
The only reason you could be in favor of this is because you are on the recieving end of all that free untaxed money.Where did you get those numbers from? As for the secretary making a small fraction of her boss...I fail to see the problem.
Check this interview with Thom Hartmann to see exactly HOW the "rules of laissez-faire free market capitalist economy" is destroying whats good about America. I agree with every thing Thom Hartmann says, so far. Well, since we don't have a laissez faire economy in America, I fail to see how Hartmann can rail against it in this country.
Not impressed.LOL...Facts are facts, deny them if you wish.
This automatically put Cato on my pro-war and terrorism shitlist. You talk about people who have lost loved ones due to corporate greed, who only want OPM and then you quote a right-wing/libertarian think tank that is sponsored by thieves and murderers.LOL. Right wing, no, libertarian, yes. Sponsored by murderers, no, sponsored by thieves no. Entertaining rhetoric though.
Its bullshiat for you to try and pass off an increase in minimum wage (read slavery) jobs and a decrease in living wage jobs as good for the economy. But, I suppose you just have to learn how deceptive numbers can be when defining terms are changed.Again, more nonsensical rhetoric. Slavary? That is an insult to anyone who has ever been a slave.

None of what you said has addressed the simple fact that John Edwards is a class-warrior who uses the premise of taking the rich's money against their will only to give it to what is essentially a mandatory, coercively enforced charity.

-NC

[DANG]

The long list of Cato's bedfellows is HERE (http://www.exxonsecrets.org/html/orgfactsheet.php?id=21)
including:
Cato's pharmaceutical donors include Eli Lilly & Company, Merck & Company and Pfizer, Inc. (http://www.pfaw.org/pfaw/general/default.aspx?oid=9261)I dont suppose they will be endorsing Edwards 4 Prez :P

[NortheastCynic]

Right, so they're donor's include major corporations...Feel free to prove their STATISTICS wrong...Just to let you know...you can't, they're facts.

-NC

[DANG]

I am way too slow at typing to respond to all of the responses from you two ganging up on me...LOL. I have some other stuff to do but I want to respond to everything.
Heres a little story to keep you busy til I get back: http://www.jregrassroots.org/forums/lofiversion/index.php/t4227.html

On June 24, 1993, David and Sandy Lakey took their `five-year` old daughter, Valerie, to the Medfield Area Recreational Club for a swim in the pool. That evening, Valerie got "stuck" on the bottom of the wading pool. She was sitting on the drain at the bottom of the pool and the suction of the drain had trapped her. She called for help. Her father and others tried to pull her off, but they couldn't break the suction.

Someone called 911 and someone went down to the pump house to turn off the pump. When her father, David, was finally able to pull Valerie away from the drain, "the water was really red with blood and there was tissue all around."

A lifeguard was running across the parking lot as Sandy Lakey drove up. A little girl was screaming, "Valerie got stuck in the drain, and there's lots of blood!" Sandy dropped the towels in her hands and ran to the baby pool, where her daughter was covered in towels and lying on David Lakey's chest beside the water. Brandon's mother was crouched down directly behind David.

"What happened?" gasped Sandy. "Did she drown?"

"Sandy," said Brandon's mother in a quaking voice, "I'm holding her intestines in my hands."

A trauma surgeon on call at Wake Medical Center led the team of doctors who saved Valerie's life after a `five-hour` surgery that evening. But the furious suction of the pool drain had torn out 80 percent of her small intestine and 50 percent of her large intestine. The trauma surgeon, a veteran observer of gunshot maimings, highway carnage, and burn victims, would later describe Valerie Lakey's injury as the worst he had ever seen. So extreme was her loss that he had to surgically implant a `G-tube` and a Hickman catheter to sustain her life with intravenous nutrition, also known as total parenteral nutrition, or TPN.

After her injury, Valerie would always suffer and would require lifelong medical attention that would cost millions of dollars. All this had happened because "of a wading pool drain cover that slid away so easily that any child cold have pushed it away. Many had."

The Lakeys first came to the Edwards & Kirby law office in the fall of 1993. Edwards' partner, David Kirby, a specialist in products liability law, did much of the early case research in 1994 and 1995, while Edwards worked on a number of other cases.

When Edwards returned to his law office in 1996 after his son's death, he came back to fight for the Lakeys. David Lakey had been the first client to call the Edwards in sympathy for their son's death.

The Lakeys and their lawyers had two goals in working on their case. One was to win a settlement that would allow the Lakeys to pay for Valerie's ongoing medical expenses. The other was to prevent similar injuries from happening to other children. In fact, several other children had already been injured in a similar way.

Four parties were named in the lawsuit for negligence that contributed to Valerie's injury:

1. Medfield Area Recreational Club. Medfield's board did not contest the suit and settled their portion of it readily.

2. Wake County, which was responsible for inspecting the safety of the pool. The lawsuit prompted the County to begin doing the type of inspections that they should have been doing and they soon closed 15 pools in the area that failed these safety inspections. The County initially claimed immunity from the lawsuit, but eventually told their attorneys to settle.

3. Hayward Pool Products, the pump manufacturer. After depositions from two engineers explained how the pump had contributed to Valerie's injury, Hayward also settled.

4. `Sta-Rite` Industries, a `Wisconsin-based` pool products manufacturer. `Sta-Rite` was the only one of the four parties that refused to take responsibility for its part in Valerie's injury. The company's "`anti-vortex` drain cover" was used in the children's pool at Medfield. This type of drain cover was originally manufactured by Swimquip, a company that `Sta-Rite` purchased in 1984.

Other children had been eviscerated by drains in pools that used the same kind of drain cover. Including Valerie's injury, three children had suffered similar injuries within a `50-mile` radius in North Carolina within a decade. Company documents subpoenaed in the case proved that `Sta-Rite` knew about one of the North Carolina evisceration injuries, as well as other suction entrapment cases, as early as 1984. Yet they had failed to fix or recall their product or warn their customers. To quote John Edwards,

And there is no reason whatsoever why a second injury should ever have taken place because of a defective swimming pool drain cover: the first time such a tragic incident occurred should have been the last. I believe that any decent person would believe this.

But `Sta-Rite` did not. As evidence poured into its office over the years that its products were maiming innocent children, it denied and avoided and obfuscated and covered up. In short `Sta-Rite` took extraordinary steps not to do the right thing -- at extraordinary cost to others. There was not a single day during the trial when I forgot that.

READ THE REST (http://www.jregrassroots.org/forums/lofiversion/index.php/t4227.html) Its about the ACCOUNTABILITY.
When people are so greedy, that they will not accept responsibility when they are clearly in the wrong.... then a precedent should be made that will prevent others from acting in or manufacturing negligent manners/products.
People understand penalties when "doing the right thing" is not in their vocabulary.

John Edwards is an American Hero

[DANG]

Before I close the windows and forget this part:
The fake news I was talking about.... I did not mean The Onion and Jon Stewart.... both of which I adore.
I was referring to this:
http://www.freepress.net/fakenews/
And this:http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Fake_news

The term fake news has become synonymous with government and corporate sponsored pre-packaged news provided as video news releases (VNRs) and audio news releases (ANRs) to news outlets.
If they cant grow some integrity... they should be shut down.

[preservanation]

DANG, fake news has become synonymous with anything you don't like.

[DANG]

Heh...

http://img383.imageshack.us/img383/3466/aipacusatoonqt6.jpg



.

[DANG]

preservanation;

One example of fake news would be Gannon/Guckert who was actually a gay prostitute disguised as a reporter who was actually planted in the press room to lob easy questions to the poser president .... because real questions were just plain too damned hard for the fucktard in chief. Boytoy gannon was also a fake Marine (http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/3/24/111751/735). But he had a real hall pass to the White House which afforded him all night slumber parties.... with whom? Nobody will step up for that tid-bit. Surprised the Religious "right" doesnt care to know the answer to that one? The presidents boy toy represented a news agency that was really only a blog.

So tell me.... was this male escort allowed to spend the night in juniors home... without his knowlege?

More likely it was at his request and with his own dollars stuffing the G-String.

So tell me, preservanation; is that "synonymous" with the kind of news you want to see?

Real news would get to the "bottom" of this... Is bush a giver or a taker? That would be real news. Stop the press!!

[wonder cow]

Voted for the loan sharking that is rampant now. Bankruptcy Bill

Yep. So few people understand how much Hillary supports the Republican vision. She throws a bone or two here of there to the Dem. base, but mostly over things that will never come to anything substantial policy wise.