"The Prophet" Mohammad

[Love America]

I read something recently that I found extremely disturbing. Especially considering the fact that, I only found the information after specifically looking for imformation about Mohammad. Basically it doesn't seem that anyone talks about this, and it horrifies me. The prophet Mohammad according the the Quran fell in love with his brother's dauther when she was between 4-5 years old. He asked for her hand in marriage when she was the age of 6, he was 50 years old at the time. The marriage was consumated when she was 9 years of age, and he was 53. Well, that is the definition of pedophilia. Can anyone else comment on this. Is this factual information. It is scary to me to think that a religion condones this type of repulsive behavior.

[AlonzoMourning23]

I read something recently that I found extremely disturbing.Â*Â*Especially considering the fact that, I only found the information after specifically looking for imformation about Mohammad.Â*Â*Basically it doesn't seem that anyone talks about this, and it horrifies me.Â*Â*The prophet Mohammad according the the Quran fell in love with his brother's dauther when she was between 4-5 years old.Â*Â*He asked for her hand in marriage when she was the age of 6, he was 50 years old at the time.Â*Â*The marriage was consumated when she was 9 years of age, and he was 53.Â*Â*Well, that is the definition of pedophilia.Â*Â*Can anyone else comment on this.Â*Â*Is this factual information.Â*Â*It is scary to me to think that a religion condones this type of repulsive behavior.


"Fell in love" probably wouldn't be the correct term. Such marriages promises are common in many cultures, including western society in the past. The only requirement in many cultures has been they reached puberty, which is very possible in the case of ayesha.

Pedophilia is attraction to prebuscent children. Ayesha was said to be very advanced for her age and for a woman to reach puberty at the age of 9 is not unheard of. It is simply the earliest of what would be considered normal.

The consumation of the marriage (not just the marriage) when she was 9 is not clearly stated in the quran and is an issue of debate among scholars. Also, while the age of 9 is generally accepted, that itself is not without debate since evidence of her age mentioned later in the quran puts he as 5-9 years older. Though, the generally accepted understanding is she was 9.

Essentially, assuming she reached puberty, this would have been a cultural practice acceptable in many cultures at the time, including christian europe.

[CheesyMuslim]

Sorry bout that,

1. Seem's he was a pervert.
2. This action isn't normal in any age.
3. People were submissive to it back then.
4. But it still was very evil.
5. IMHBO.

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

[AlonzoMourning23]

1. Seem he may of been a pervert.
2. This action isn't normal in any age.
3. People were submissive to it back then.
4. But it still was very evil.
5. IMHBO.

If this is the case, then you agree that christian society was evil for much of its history?

Cultural values dictate the morals of its citizens. Such morals were in place around the world.

It's like the issue of slavery, Jesus took no issue with slavery in the bible, and even commented on how slaves should behave. Do we call Jesus evil?

[Labrocca]

Interesting tidbit.

[Love America]

Something I must add, that I should have clarified before. In the excerpt I read he proclaimed that he wanted Ayesha in a sexual way when she was between 4-5 years old. Then asked for her hand in marriage at 6, not sure if she understood what was going on. As far as her starting her period at 9 years old, I highly doubt it in those days. I know that it is common these days for girls to begin their menstuation as early as 8 years old. This opens up a whole other debate of the effect of the hormones we add to our meats and how it has affected the development of adolescent girls. If you know any girls whose parents keep them on a diet of meats with no hormones, you can clearly see the difference. Anyway back on the subject....as far as pedophilia being widely accepted throughout many cultures is highly debatable. The average age for a young women to wed was 12 years of age. Which is more reasonable to believe that the women were of pubescent age.

[AlonzoMourning23]

Puberty is not an age set in stone. The standard for marriage has often been puberty. The average age for puberty was 12-15 in most areas, but when a child reached puberty at a younger age, which was not entirely uncommon, they still were considered ready for marriage. The quran itself comments of Ayesha's maturity, which may mean sexual of psychological, or both. And if a child has reached puberty then it's not pedophilia.

This is really an issue of blaming somebody for following a now forbidden cultural practice that was common throughout the world at that time.

[Love America]

[quote]

This is really an issue of blaming somebody for following a now forbidden cultural practice that was common throughout the world at that time.


So you are telling me that it was acceptable and common for a man of 50+ years of age to admittedly fantasize sexually about a 4-5 year old girl who was his niece. Okay....sure. I guess a defense could be that he waited until she was of pubescent age at 9 years old, but it simply cannot be proven that she was pubescent. As far as Ayesha being mature for her age, it does talk about the fact that she was allowed to play with her toys because she was a child. She sure sounds like someone who is ready to make an informed decision about marriage and a sexual relationship with her uncle. NOT. By the way marrying young girls 12-15 off to a much older men is still very common in the Islamic religion today. Of course this is illegal in America, but it does go on everywhere.

I understand no religion is without it's baggage, but you don't see anything about Jesus having sexual motivation towards a 4-5 year old.

[AlonzoMourning23]

So you are telling me that it was acceptable and common for a man of 50+ years of age to admittedly fantasize sexually about a 4-5 year old girl who was his niece.

No such thing is stated. She was to be his wife, he did not fantasize about sexual relations with a 5 year old.

Â*Okay....sure.Â*Â*I guess a defense could be that he waited until she was of pubescent age at 9 years old, but it simply cannot be proven that she was pubescent.Â*Â*As far as Ayesha being mature for her age, it does talk about the fact that she was allowed to play with her toys because she was a child.Â*Â*She sure sounds like someone who is ready to make an informed decision about marriage and a sexual relationship with her uncle.Â*Â*NOT.Â*Â*

This was present throughout the world, and the middle east was no exception. The behaviour described is by no means unique to muhammed or his region. What is occuring is condemnation of someone for following cultural norms that were in place throughout the world. They were acceptable at that time in many regions of the world. To condemn one man for engaging in a common practice lacks perspective. It's like condemning the founding fathers for having black adults and children as slaves.

Though, again, there is also some conflict on whether she truly was that young.

By the way marrying young girls 12-15 off to a much older men is still very common in the Islamic religion today.Â*Â*Of course this is illegal in America, but it does go on everywhere.Â*Â*

It depends. It happens in some areas, but in others it's uncommon or even illegal. It's largely cultural and in many places, such as africa, such marriages occur among all religious groups. Culture, not islam, is the driving force there.

I understand no religion is without it's baggage, but you don't see anything about Jesus having sexual motivation towards a 4-5 year old.Â*Â*Â*Â*


But I do see him accepting slavery. Would you feel better if Muhammad took her Ayesha as his slave? At least then Jesus wouldn't have objected. The rest of the bible goes much further.

[Love America]

This was present throughout the world, and the middle east was no exception. The behaviour described is by no means unique to muhammed or his region. What is occuring is condemnation of someone for following cultural norms that were in place throughout the world. They were acceptable at that time in many regions of the world. To condemn one man for engaging in a common practice lacks perspective. It's like condemning the founding fathers for having black adults and children as slaves.

Though, again, there is also some conflict on whether she truly was that young.
How on Earth can you compare slavery and pedophilia.Â*Â*It seems your biggest defense is that perhaps she wasn't that young.Â*Â*It is widely accepted that she was nine years of age at the time the marriage was consumated.Â*Â*As I previously stated there is no way to prove that she was pubescent.Â*Â*I am holding the man accountable who people worship as a prophet.Â*Â*It is different to judge the actions of a mere man as opposed to a savior.Â*Â*Â*Â*


It depends. It happens in some areas, but in others it's uncommon or even illegal. It's largely cultural and in many places, such as africa, such marriages occur among all religious groups. Culture, not islam, is the driving force there.
From Khomeini's book, "Tahrirolvasyleh", fourth volume, Darol Elm, Gom, Iran, 1990 :

A man can have sexual pleasure from a child as young as a baby. However he should not penetrate, sodomising the child is OK. If the man penetrates and damages the child then he should be responsible for her subsistence all herÂ*Â*life. This girl, however does not count as one of his four permanent wives. The man will not be eligible to marry the girls sister.
[...]
It is better for a girl to marry in such a time when she would begin menstruation at her husband's house rather than her father's home. Any father marrying his daughter so young will have a permanent place in heaven

Ayatollah Khomeini is the most powerful cleric in the islamic world.Â*Â*These are his teachings based on Islam, and therefore Islamic not cultural.

[AlonzoMourning23]

How on Earth can you compare slavery and pedophilia.Â*Â*It seems your biggest defense is that perhaps she wasn't that young.Â*Â*It is widely accepted that she was nine years of age at the time the marriage was consumated.Â*Â*

As I previously stated there is no way to prove that she was pubescent.

Do you think forcefully enslaving someone is worse than a willing post-pubescent child bride? Both are evils in our understanding, and weren't in the past. Neither religious founder had a problem with the related issue.

I think you mean post pubescent. If it was consumated prior to her reaching puberty that would have been very odd in that culture and the part on being very mature for her age must also be overlooked. And we have no evidence that she was not. If you want to condemn him stick to what you actually know. Not to assumptions you may make.



Ayatollah Khomeini is the most powerful cleric in the islamic world.Â*Â*These are his teachings based on Islam, and therefore Islamic not cultural.


I'm not sure if you know who ayatollah khomeini was. He was the ruler of Iran. He was a Shia muslim (the other main forms being sunni and sufi). There is no central authority like the pope, or any such equivalent. And, even if he where, there were many popes who engaged in and supported things in stark contrest to christian teaching. For example, we had a pope who worked with the nazi's, but we wouldn't call that an actions consistent with christianity. He is not basing this on quranic text either, your quote reads like its his own opinion. He also supported such things as a persons right to have sex change surgery, but that's not mentioned in the quran nor could it be said to be an islamic teaching, he just does not find it counter to islam (nor does it violate the bible). It is the opinion of an islamic scholar, but not an islamic teaching. And he "is" nothing. He's dead.

Also, it's ridiculous to suggest religious leaders teachings, regardless of the religion, are purely religious. Culture effects everything. They effect the teachings of priests, imams, rabbi's etc. It effects how passages are interpereted, which ones are ignored, focused on etc.

That quote lacks solid foundation in the quran as well as virtually any religious text.Â*Now if you found agreement among various religious scholars that this is islamic teaching then you'd have a better argument, but what you have is an islamic head of state who does not even state that his view is based on actual quranic texts. You can't argue interpretation of certain texts when they aren't even cited.

[Labrocca]

Hey Alonzo..are you sure you want to be on the other side of this arguement?

[Newscaster]

There are lots of things about Mohammed that are unsettling. Besides being a suspected pedophile, he was also illiterate, he was a massive plagerist, he was bloodthirsty and warlike.

Muhammed started his adult life as a traveling salesman of cloth and fine materials but he apparantly wasnt very good at it.
When that phase of his life ended, he retired to an oasis somewhere where one of his associates read the Torah and the New Testament to him. This caused him to begin imagining himself as Godlike. Since he could not write, he began dictating what became the Quoran to his associated, and in the process, he lifted entire passages from the Torah and New testament. Thats how Abraham, Moses and Jesus found their way into the Quoran. Now, he needed followers but they were hard to come buy. The Jews refused to convert, the Early Christians were still in defensive mode, being chased by the remnants of the Roman Empire. So, Muhammed and his troop of new Muslims, wandered into Saudi Arabia and into the prediminatly Jewish city of Medina. He demanded the Jews convert. They thumbed their noses at him and he had them massacred. Medina, a formerly all Jewish city, is now considered the second holiest place in Islam, after Mecca. The religion began to spread, not because it spread a wonderful message of peace and love, which it did not, but it spread because of fear. Oh by the way, Jerusalem is considered the third most holy city of Islam, despite the fact that Muhammed never set foot in that city.
Now most muslims will deny that story but religious experts endorse it as do some muslims who are members of more modern sects.

[BoogyMan]

If this is the case, then you agree that christian society was evil for much of its history?

Cultural values dictate the morals of its citizens. Such morals were in place around the world.

It's like the issue of slavery, Jesus took no issue with slavery in the bible, and even commented on how slaves should behave. Do we call Jesus evil?


Christ also directed how slave owners should behave. You might not want to continue to try and hide that little fact, Alonzo.

[Newscaster]

First, dont blame Christianity for any evil you find in Islam. The muslims adopts the new testament and Torah and then proceeded to give it their own unique interpretation.

Now, when you bring slavery into the mix, remember, slavery was in force in Africa long before there was a bible. Tribes would enslave members of those treibes they beat in war. When slave masters arrived from the US, the first ones that is, the african slave trade simply became international with the tribes enjoying the money they got.
Slavery was NOT a religious issue.... among the tribes it was a financial issue. The more slaves you had, the richer you were considered. Unscrupulous europeans took advantage of the situation but not for religious reasons. It was considered legal then because thats the way people's minds worked then. But when attitudes changed and the cruelty was seem more clearly, slavery ended but unfortunately, we needed a full scale war to do it.

[AlonzoMourning23]

Christ also directed how slave owners should behave.Â*Â*You might not want to continue to try and hide that little fact, Alonzo.


He used the relationship to illustrate points. He treated slavery as a fact of life, no recorded opinion of his on it exists. Stories that some would interperet as condoning it, many others (including myself) disagree and interperet them as using the relationship to make a point, not necessarily an endorsement.

[Concord]

In The Name Of Allah The Most Gracious The Most Merciful
after that.. this is the first participation for me in this site.. and because i am Muslim.. this necessiate to told you what is the truth..
Mohammad.. which is the final massenger for Allah.. marriged this wife while she 9 years-old.. but any messenger must be able to be stronger than any enjoyment.. because he is a massenger..
but you must knew that.. this wife of Mohammed is the only one which is not deflowered.. which indicate that Mohammed marriged from eleven wives for popularizing islam only not for desire..
thank you and goodbye[hr]for people who seek the truth
add this website in your favourites and read it
and this about Mohammad peace of Allah be upon him
http://www.islamway.com/mohammad/?lang=eng
Mohammad is the final massenger of Allah and he is the best one after him is Abraham peace of Allah be upon him then Moses (the prophet of jewish) peace of Allah be upon him thin Jesus (peace of Allah be upon him) the prophet of christianity and the Noah peace of Allah be upon him.. and you should know that Abraham is the groundfather of Mohammed and Moses(this the only one how spoken with Allah) and Jesus also.. and i don't know if you are familiar with that Jesus is living now but he is in sky and he will come back at the end of life.. and then when he came back come to the earth at jerusalem.. and he will pray as muslims because Jesus was praying and obeying Allah.. so.. he will pray as muslims..
for more informations contact me by the e-mail..
thank you and goodbye..

[Rider]

On the topic of slavery-" It's like the issue of slavery, Jesus took no issue with slavery in the bible, and even commented on how slaves should behave. Do we call Jesus evil?"
Jesus' message to human kind was one of a personal relationship to God. I don't recall him trying to change the world as it was; rather changing individual lives through his teachings. Just my take on it.

Concorde wrote- ...and because i am Muslim.. this necessiate to told you what is the truth..
Mohamed gave his followers permission to lie if necessary to carry out Jihad. Arabs have a well deserved reputation for lying. Sorry, I don't mean to offend, but this very issue was discussed on C-Span this morning (or at least I watched it this morning).

[AlonzoMourning23]

Rider, can you describe what Jihad is?

Mohamed gave his followers permission to lie if necessary to carry out Jihad. Arabs have a well deserved reputation for lying. Sorry, I don't mean to offend, but this very issue was discussed on C-Span this morning (or at least I watched it this morning).

Actually, you are allowed to lie to protect yourself (called Taqiyya), as long as you keep your beliefs in your heart. But that is also according to Shia tradition, Sunni's reject that teaching and many denounce it as an affront to God. It has been useful historically because Shia's are a minority and, as most minorities around the world, have been persecuted for their beliefs.

Here's a more detailed description of the principle http://www.answers.com/topic/taqiyya

[Concord]

Liying is prohibited in Islam.
This is what is said in Quran.and Hadith.