BUSH AND THE IRAQ WAR

[rastaman]

The US military defeated the Iraqi Army as they were trained to do. This was a no brainier. The entire world knew the outcome before the war even started. The US Military won the war ----but will not win the peace. As a result, America will eventually leave Iraq just like Brittan had to do during the British occupation of Iraq at the beginning of the 20th century.

Why does losing the peace in Iraq equals a defeat for the U.S.? Simply stated the Bush Administration did not strategically plan to win the peace. With the Bush Admin. rush to war, Bush and his NeoCon Hawks were determine not to listen to the Generals. In fact, Rumsfeld made any General who disagreed with the Iraq invasion plans retire.

Herbert Bush won the first gulf war b/c he listened to his Generals unlike his son GWB

The Bush Admin. were determined to invade and occupy Iraq with only 135,000 troops, whereas the Generals who were asked to retire openly stated that to invade Iraq and win the PEACE, it would require a total force structure of 300,000 troops. Bush elected to listen to the likes of Cheney and Rumsfled over the experienced generals who fought in the first gulf war.

We all recall and watched on our televisions how after the U.S. military entered Baghdad the looting and chaos soon ensued. The uncontrolled looting was mainly due to fact that the military did not have enough personnel on the ground to prevent looting and ensure the safety of the Iraqi citizens. Not having enough troops did not allow our military to hold and secure key areas such as the large ammo facility left un-guarded; which later allowed Iraqi's to raid the facility to get supplies to make IED's which eventually wounded and killed thousands of our troops.

The Bush Admin. had no plans to pay wages and put the Iraqi's back to work to re-build their country; greatly reducing the likely hood of Iraqi's taking up arms against our troops b/c they were gainfully employed. Instead the re-building effort and American tax dollars were allotted to American contractors and to corporate war profiteering companies such as Halliburton and KR Brown and Root. Already, $9 billion of American tax pay dollars is unaccounted for. The $9 billion probably ended up in a bank account in Dubai.

The Iraq war is now costing a Billion dollars a month and our military continues to suffer from a lack of armored vehicles, clean drinking water and armored vest. Where's all the money going to? One needs to look no further than the coffers of the Military Industrialize Complex. War is racket at best and it is used as a vehicle for Defense contractors to bilk billions from the American people. How else do you explain over 25,000 civilian contractors and ex-military mercenaries in Iraq right now; their getting paid "Big Bucks".

You ask yourself how did the country of Iraq descend into mindless mayhem and chaos?-----It was allowed to take place. It's called "Planned Chaos". The Bush Admin. wanted death, destruction and chaos so they could steal the resources of Iraq while bilking additional billions from the American treasury. All over the lies of WMD and SADDAMS so called connections to 911. ALL LIES!!!!!

The Administration has yet to define what a victory in Iraq is. Civil strife is rampant and there is no end insight and public support is quickly deteriorating. 72% of the troops polled in Iraq believe their work is done and we need to leave and bring our troops home. Troops are now serving their 2nd, 3rd and 4th tours in Iraq.

[Labrocca]

The first Bush is the first to admit he made a mistake by leaving Saddam in power.

Have you actually spoken to any troops? Most soldiers I speak to think what we are doing is working. I spoke with one guy last month here in Vegas who had just returned.

He said "99% of the Iraqi people absolutely love us. It's the Imans and the extremists that are the problem". He went on to tell me about his 2 years in and out of the country and that by and large it's working.

Sorry but most liberals who are against the war simply are against war in any form and thing peace, love, and flowers are the way. They are not. Those are the end result of war and struggle which Americans enjoy today. Freedom isn't free. The price is a soilders life.

What price would you pay for freedom?

[rastaman]

Iraq has nothing to do with America's freedom. Have you read the news lately with the marines killing innocent iraqi's?? Only conservatives naieve enough to think 99% of the iraqi's want the U.S. military occupying their country. Saddam had nothing to do with 911 nor was their WMD in iraq.

Bush lied to his conservative robots and to the american people to enter into war profiteering venture in Iraq, which is now costing american tax payers over $1 billion per month.

[AlonzoMourning23]

Sorry but most liberals who are against the war simply are against war in any form and thing peace, love, and flowers are the way.

Over 90% of people supported the invasion of afghanistan, Iraq is struggly for 50%. I don't think your statement has much merit.

Though I've never been sure how invading Iraq had anything to do with american freedom.

[bobbylien]

Over 90% of people supported the invasion of afghanistan, Iraq is struggly for 50%. I don't think your statement has much merit.

Though I've never been sure how invading Iraq had anything to do with american freedom.

We invaded iraq to remove the "WMDs" which turned out to not be there in the first place. I think Iraq was a mistake, but we can turn it into a positive if we commit to rebuilding Iraq. Pulling out of Iraq right now would hand it over to terrorism and would almost certainly cause a civil war in Iraq.

[AlonzoMourning23]

Over 90% of people supported the invasion of afghanistan, Iraq is struggly for 50%. I don't think your statement has much merit.

Though I've never been sure how invading Iraq had anything to do with american freedom.

We invaded iraq to remove the "WMDs" which turned out to not be there in the first place. I think Iraq was a mistake, but we can turn it into a positive if we commit to rebuilding Iraq. Pulling out of Iraq right now would hand it over to terrorism and would almost certainly cause a civil war in Iraq.


An argument often presented, by labrocca for example, is that somehow our freedom has something to do with this. That's what I was referring to.

But, in response to you, I don't think Iraq can ever become a positive, a neutral at best. We helped legitimize extremists. We had sympathy among mainstream muslims. Osama made a mistake and we took advantage, at first. He killed civilians, created sympathy among the average muslim for the u.s., and he never got the large boost of recruits. The flood of muslims rushing into afghanistan to protect the "islamic state", which Bin Laden believed would happen, never did.

When we invaded Iraq though we proved the criticisms of america by jihadists right in the eyes of many, muslims and non muslims alike. Most of the muslim population, and the world, did not believe Iraq was any threat to us. We were not provoked in their eyes.

When we entered Iraq we took out a secular government where islamists were marginalized and persecuted. We accomplished half of what Bin Laden, and those who share his views, wanted to accomplish. And, in doing so we gathered sympathy and the flood of recruits, the flood he expected in afghanistan, finally appeared. We took out one of the banes of their existance and bolstered their ranks. They know they couldn't overthrow saddam, but they believe they can defeat us. While most may not agree, I think few would argue we are a tougher challenge for them than saddam. And with american soldiers beating prisoners, refusing to try prisoners, and killing babies (I long for the days that was an exaggeration), the military is turning itself into a wing of al-qaeda's propaganda machine.

[PittsburghAfterDark]

Who let the loon in?

[rastaman]

Gee PAD are we name calling again??? Shame on you.

[rastaman]

We are not making progress in "pacifying" Iraq. Our occupation and imperialistic behavior, disrespect, and alienation continue to enrage the Iraqis with, bullying, and the constant shooting of civilians. The military operations continue to create a steady stream of dead and maimed GIs back home that has become a political liability for the Bush administration and the GOP.

This daily dose of trauma was combined with collapsing stories. There was no al-Qaeda connection. There was no Iraqi nuclear program. There are no weapons of mass destruction. Alas--just as many of us said well before the American people were manipulated through fear to support this war--Iraq is not now, nor has it ever been, a threat to the United States.

Even as the old lies slowly dissolve, the Bush administration is developing new ones, the most significant of which is the lie that the armed resistance to the US occupation is composed primarily of "remnants" or foreigners. To fight the Americans would be decidedly "un-liberated." In fact, it is Iraqi resistance with widening popular support. Crowds cheer after successful attacks against Americans.

And as the US troops are pulled back behind the wire, to have their static positions placed under 24-7 surveillance, the Iraqi street and countryside is relinquished to the guerrillas, who can now bomb oil pipelines, water mains, Brown & Root profiteers, embassies and hotels. In military terms, the US has lost the strategic initiative in the war on Iraq.

America is faced with two indefensible realities:

First, there will be no good outcome of this war. There will only be choices now between bad and worse. A crime has been committed and it can't be taken back. In the face of a similar dilemma Vietnam, there was the incredulous question, "How do we just get out of Vietnam?" The answer--one that was ignored at terrible cost: "With ships and airplanes."

Second, the Bush administration will not quit. They have proven their infinite capacity for self-delusion and impunity. That leaves the American public with a no win choice. Accept this junta's continued vandalism against the world and against our own economy (We are now paying $4 billion a month for the two military failures of Iraq and Afghanistan, while Bush cuts taxes for the rich).

Just as we had to pull the whole nation through the constitutional crisis of Watergate to rid ourselves of the Nixon Republican regime, we will have to risk the political disruption of the same kind of crisis to purge this neo-con disease from the American body politic.

Popular mobilization against the war in Iraq, a mobilization to bring our troops home and leave Iraq to the Iraqis, is the only thing that will stiffen the spines of the elected officials of both parties, who were stampeded into this war by demagogy and their own indestructible opportunism, to call for the independent investigations we must have of the whole highway of lies that led us into this quagmire.

[PittsburghAfterDark]

For God's sake, merge your posts.

All your topics are the same.

[rastaman]

[attachment=18]
For God's sake, merge your posts.

All your topics are the same.


All of Bush's lies and propaganda are the same, so what's your point.Â*Â*By the way, "God Can't Help the Republicans" only Bush can.

[Labrocca]

Where are you copying and pasting these posts from Rastaman? That's what I want to know.

[rastaman]

Where are you copying and pasting these posts from Rastaman?Â*Â*That's what I want to know.


Like I told you earlier Labrocca, if I cut and paste I will provide a link/source. These are my opinions of Bush's Illegal War. You obviously have a problem with that---but thats your choice. You make alot of unfounded assumptions, you have much to learn.

[PittsburghAfterDark]

Where are you copying and pasting these posts from Rastaman?Â*Â*That's what I want to know.


http://people.csail.mit.edu/rahimi/helmet/ali2.jpg

This should answer all of your questions.

[rastaman]

Where are you copying and pasting these posts from Rastaman?Â*Â*That's what I want to know.


http://people.csail.mit.edu/rahimi/helmet/ali2.jpg

This should answer all of your questions.


Hey PAD, nice of you to share a picture of your immediate family member with all of us.Â*Â*GREAT JOB!!!:rolleyes::P:D

[BoogyMan]

Rastaman, Bush Derangement Syndrome is, in your case, a reality.Â*Â*You make many claims for which you provide no substantiation and draw numerous conclusions based on little more than assumptions.

You have much to learn.

[rastaman]

Rastaman, Bush Derangement Syndrome is, in your case, a reality.Â*Â*You make many claims for which you provide no substantiation and draw numerous conclusions based on little more than assumptions.

You have much to learn.


Okay Boogyman, let's just keep any issues about Bush on "The Down Low". Shsssh. That's right, lets just keep everything conerning Bush "Out of Sight" and "Out of Mind" and everything will work out fine.

THERE IS THAT BETTER!!! DO YOU FEEL BETTER!!!:D

Great now get back to reality. The name of this forum is "Democracy Forum" its not called "Be Nice To Bush" or give Liberals or Conservatives a Free Pass on the ISSUES. After all dissent is healthy for our democracy and the republic.

[rastaman]

Rastaman, Bush Derangement Syndrome is, in your case, a reality.Â*Â*You make many claims for which you provide no substantiation and draw numerous conclusions based on little more than assumptions.

You have much to learn.


BoogyMan, I know your new here, and you have selected me to pyscho analyze---which is all good. However, if you pyscho analyze un-biasely you will find that a few posters in here have a "Liberal Derangement Syndrome (LDS)":D You will find that folks who suffer from LDS find themselves making claims which they can find very little to backup their claims as well as draw conclusion based on little more than assumptions.

But as a whole, I think we all of us in this forum can stand to learn a lot from one another, including you. Have a nice day.

[BoogyMan]

BoogyMan, I know your new here, and you have selected me to pyscho analyze---which is all good.Â*Â*However, if you pyscho analyze un-biasely you will find that a few posters in here have a "Liberal Derangement Syndrome (LDS)":DÂ*Â* You will find that folks who suffer from LDS find themselves making claims which they can find very little to backup their claims as well as draw conclusion based on little more than assumptions.

But as a whole, I think we all of us in this forum can stand to learn a lot from one another, including you.Â*Â*Have a nice day.


Yet again Rastaman, you choose to provide nothing to substantiate your claims.Â*Â*I would agree that there are those who are equally as unbalanced towards liberals as you are with your intense and irrational hatred of the president.

Now that I have answered your failed attempt at logical fallacy (misdirection), lets see some proof, solid proof, credibly sourced solid proof.

[rastaman]

BoogyMan, I know your new here, and you have selected me to pyscho analyze---which is all good.Â*Â*However, if you pyscho analyze un-biasely you will find that a few posters in here have a "Liberal Derangement Syndrome (LDS)":DÂ*Â* You will find that folks who suffer from LDS find themselves making claims which they can find very little to backup their claims as well as draw conclusion based on little more than assumptions.

But as a whole, I think we all of us in this forum can stand to learn a lot from one another, including you.Â*Â*Have a nice day.


Yet again Rastaman, you choose to provide nothing to substantiate your claims.Â*Â*I would agree that there are those who are equally as unbalanced towards liberals as you are with your intense and irrational hatred of the president.

Now that I have answered your failed attempt at logical fallacy (misdirection), lets see some proof, solid proof, credibly sourced solid proof.



Your tactic won't work sorry, you are just a repub. shill parading around as a wanna be head doctor. Why dont try to psycho analyze Bush and his band of war mongering thieves. You'd propbaly have better luck.

[BoogyMan]

Rastaman, I have won this debate. Your abject hatred for all things conservative has blinded you to the necessity to substantiate your claims and has essentially made your commentary little more than an entertaining distraction.