Individuals Sacrificed for the State

[ClayBarham]

This socialist doctrine denies God created man. It denies individual responsibility to God for decisions and acts. It replaces God and individual legitimate self-interest with the interests of the community and the state. God made us, as individuals, able to love, hate and procreate, to build our own families and communities, to be good or evil. Life did not start with the community. God gave us our interests, skills, talents, abilities and aspirations, not the community. Democrats follow the ideals of a purposeful and managing dictatorship. They seek to make government the source of life and all human value. Republicans now want compromise between God and the state. They are following the path traveled by the Democrats. Once individual legitimate self-interests fades from America, as it exists nowhere else, the state will be supreme over all Americans. Is this what we all want? Have we wiped away all the historical proofs and benefits of individual liberty and prosperity through freedom, for a guaranteed handout?

[Buck Laser]

Clay, are you talking about soldiers who go to war for their country?:cool:

[ClayBarham]

If I'm not mistaken, they went to protect us from having to become sacrificed to a Muslim State. Let's face it, there are no individuals under the Crescent, only followers of the Mullahs. Want to be one of them? If not, be thankful our soldiers are fighting them over there and not here, where, if they were, many folks would simply want to get on their knees and become Muslim to save their skins.

[Buck Laser]

If I'm not mistaken, they went to protect us from having to become sacrificed to a Muslim State. Let's face it, there are no individuals under the Crescent, only followers of the Mullahs. Want to be one of them? If not, be thankful our soldiers are fighting them over there and not here, where, if they were, many folks would simply want to get on their knees and become Muslim to save their skins.

You are mistaken.

And you have a very low estimate of Americans, Clay. But I don't believe Islam had anything at all to do with our going to war against Iraq. Bush's warped values and the agenda of the Project For the New American Century, however, had everything to do with it. I am everlastingly grateful that my children are too old and my grandchidren (still) to young for this misbegotten war.

[Red Dragon]

Clay the socialist doctrine doesn't deny god, or else we wouldn't have Islamic socialism, Christian socialism, or Buddhist socialism. Also who gave your god, if he even exists, moral and social authority over us? Who gave him the right to create diseases like smallpox, the black plague, and various other diseases? Who gave him the right to judge us? It was not us I can assure you that it wasn't me, to me your idea of a god is a dictator. Also what is wrong with placing the needs of many before the needs of the few? Is there something wrong with system in which a combination of socialism and capitalism are the economic basis, and democracy as the governing principle? I mean after all this entails that the means of production would be controlled by the entire population, and that political power would be in the hands of the people, whether through democracy that is representative or direct.

[quiet man]

the majority of americans are the core of what this country is all about. the leaders and their lobbists that have missed the ball involving "real americans".

[Mayberry]

many folks would simply want to get on their knees and become Muslim to save their skins. I don't know where you live Clay, But Texans will never surrender! (And we're armed to the teeth! :P) the means of production would be controlled by the entire population You mean like in China, or the former USSR? :rolleyes: who gave your god, if he even exists, moral and social authority over us? He did. (Duh?) Who gave him the right to create diseases like smallpox, the black plague, and various other diseases? That's a question only He can answer. Also what is wrong with placing the needs of many before the needs of the few? The problem is "their" needs aren't necessarily in line with mine, and I don't like MY labor/ money going towards "their" needs.

[Red Dragon]

Well one could say that China and the former Soviet were actually oligarchies that under the guise of a benevolent government trying to help it's citizens, with the state thinking of it's self as the general populace. But I think we can agree that a description of that kind could be applied to every country in some way or another. But I will agree that a full socialist economy is flawed thinking especially when the country is a one party system, but luckily I'm only a supporter of a mixed economy rather then a full capitalist or full socialist economy. And as for the last part well we'll just have to agree to disagree there.

And now for a god's moral authority, just because he created us does not mean he can do whatever he wishes to us especially seeing as how we are free thinking individual beings. You know I mean if he exists then he could at lest give us a choice about his authority over us. Now as for your answer on god creating viruses, it's better then most of the other answers I've gotten which are mostly ever "god's work is mysterious" or "were not suppose to know about it as it is part of his Devine plan". And my comical response to that is that if a person did mysterious or Devine work like that we would kill them. :D

[Pookie]

This whole idea is a hoot. I'm a Democrat and well, the godless liberal I am, I believe in God. Now. Back up your theories with facts, please.
Purrs,

[Mayberry]

You know I mean if he exists then he could at lest give us a choice about his authority over us. He has. just because he created us does not mean he can do whatever he wishes to us especially seeing as how we are free thinking individual beings.Here we are in agreement. I don't believe God controls us, nor do a lot of Christians. (Yes, there are some kooks on the fringes). God created us, gave us free will, and a set of rules to live by. I don't believe in "fate" or "destiny" or anything. We live our lives as we choose.

[ClayBarham]

Red Dragon believes in a "mixed" system, that there can be a compromise between liberty and coercion. All that when faced with the obvious benefits in America from liberty, soon to be stuck in the muck of compromise, which then leaves coercion as the only way out. Sitting on the fence has never worked either. I suggest, if you are open to it, you Google the following:
Frederick Bastiat: To The Youth of France" and read his essay. If you do, then I guarantee you will get off the fence. The side you stand on is determined then by how you view people. As to other comments about God and Socialism coexisting, I would say you really mean Church and Socialism coexisting. God and Christ each "spoke" to man as an individual, not a community. Churches, to exercise power as an institution, spoke to communities.